Sheraton Myrtle Beach conversion to Westin Kierland

[timster1983]

We went to a developer presentation this morning and they made an offer that is very tempting. I would like to know what everyone else thinks to make sure I am thinking of everything.

1. Thew will convert our floating red week 2 BR unit at Sheraton Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach to the points system.
2. They will give us 67,000 starwood options for the Myrtle Beach week.
3. They want us to buy an every other year 2 BR lockoff at the Westin Kierland which is 81,000 starwood options.
4. We would pay $10,900.

We have had lots of problems trading our Myrtle Beach week and usually have to settle of out of prime travel periods. We also don't like the week system because when we stay in a season other than Red it still costs us our entire week. We really like the idea of the points where the points needed vary based on season and size of unit. We do have school age kids now so we will be traveling during school holidays. We want a high trading power resort because we will be exchanging most years and not returning to home unit.

Here is our understanding based on what the sales person told us:

1. We would have 148,100 star options every other year (Westin Kierland every other year usage and the MB Points).

2. We could use these star options at any Starwood resort including Hawaii, St Johns, Colorado, Atlantis, etc. when we wanted to. We could essentially go where we wanted to go when we wanted to go with these star options.

3. Alternatively we could use our Myrtle Beach points and go somewhere for a week, and then every other year we could split our 2 BR lockoff and using the priority system exchange for two additional weeks. Salesperson took us to computer and logged in to his account and showed us the units and weeks available to him for his split 1 BR portion of the lockoff.

4. Salesperson said that Westin Kierland had better trading power than 95% of resorts in II.

5. In addition we are getting 60,000 starwood points to use at starwood hotels that salesperson says is worth about 12 hotel nights at 5000 points a night. He says that Sheraton Hotels and Westin Hotels would be 5000 points a night.

We are thinking about doing this because the $10,900 seems very reasonable
-for converting our weeks membership to points, and
-to get a high trading power unit at Westin Kierland.

What does everyone think? I've read about mandatory resorts and voluntary resorts and SVN and SVO and I'm still a little fuzzy about the details. If someone can lay out what I should be asking myself about this offer I would sure appreciate hit.

Thank you.

 

[DeniseM]

Here is our understanding based on what the sales person told us:

1. We would have 148,100 star options every other year (Westin Kierland every other year usage and the MB Points).

That sounds correct.

2. We could use these star options at any Starwood resort including Hawaii, St Johns, Colorado, Atlantis, etc. when we wanted to. We could essentially go where we wanted to go when we wanted to go with these star options.

Westin St. John and Harborside are nearly impossible trades during school holidays, so this was a huge exaggeration. Holiday trades to any of the resorts are more difficult, because there is more demand than supply, and owners at the resort can make their Resv. 4 mos. before a Staroption trader can.

3. Alternatively we could use our Myrtle Beach points and go somewhere for a week, and then every other year we could split our 2 BR lockoff and using the priority system exchange for two additional weeks. Salesperson took us to computer and logged in to his account and showed us the units and weeks available to him for his split 1 BR portion of the lockoff.

I am not sure what you mean by "priority system exchange." If you are talking about trading with II, you can do the same thing now, without converting. Converting your SBP week to Starpoints doesn't give you any advantage in II.

4. Salesperson said that Westin Kierland had better trading power than 95% of resorts in II.

There is no way to prove this, and I would be surprised if WKV trades any better than SBP in II. They both have the same Starwood priority. It is a better value to use inexpensive voluntary weeks for II traders. and to use more expensive mandatory weeks for Staroption trades.

5. In addition we are getting 60,000 starwood points to use at starwood hotels that salesperson says is worth about 12 hotel nights at 5000 points a night. He says that Sheraton Hotels and Westin Hotels would be 5000 points a night.

It is difficult to find hotels in any prime locations for 5,000 Starpoints a night. Realistically, it's more like 10,000+ Starpoints a night.

We are thinking about doing this because the $10,900 seems very reasonable
-for converting our weeks membership to points, and
-to get a high trading power unit at Westin Kierland.

What does everyone think? I've read about mandatory resorts and voluntary resorts and SVN and SVO and I'm still a little fuzzy about the details. If someone can lay out what I should be asking myself about this offer I would sure appreciate hit.

Thank you.

Personally, I would forget about Starpoints - the salesman really exaggerated their value. Most hotel rooms ar 10K+ a night, not 5K a night. So coverting to points won't take you far.

WKV is already a mandatory resort - resales have Staroptions. So for $10,900 you could buy a 2 bdm. every year unit on the resale market and get twice as much for your money.

SBP is a strong II trader, but with ALL trading you have to put in a request early. Last minute trading, especially for school holidays doesn't work very well. Whether you use II or trade your Staroptions, you need to make the trade as early as possible. For II trades, optimally you should put in your request 12 mos. or more out. For Staroption trades, you need to call owners services at exactly 8 mos. out.

See the Starwood FAQ at the top of the page and then let us know what questions you still have.

 

[timster1983]

Points

We thought that buying a every year use on the resale market made sense but we made the following comparison:


Yr 1 - MB: 67000 star options
Yr 2 - MB 67,000 + WK 81000
Total star options = 215,000


Yr 1 - WK: 81,000
YR 2 - WK: 81,000
Total star options - 162,000

Is this analysis correct or am I missing something? We thought about just giving our MB week away just to get rid of it and then buying the WK on the resale.

Salesperson said that we could combine our MB points with the WK points and use the 148,000 points together. I think I read on another thread that you couldn't combine points from a voluntary and a mandatory resort. Could you clarify?

Thanks.

 

[DeniseM]

You can combine them, but I think you mean Staroptions.

Staroptions = timeshare trading value to be used at Starwood timeshares
Starpoints = hotel points - to be used at hotels

If you buy resale, you can buy a 2 bdm. EVERY year deed at WKV for about the same cost, and you will have 148,100 Staroptions every year, for about the same upfront cost. 148,100 Staroptions is enough for any 2 bdm. TS in the Starwood system - as available.

You can still use the SBP week for your personal use and as a II trader - you just need to get organized and put your request in earlier.

That would give you an inexpensive II trader (SBP) and a Staroptions trader (WKV) - which would be my preference. The main disadvantage to putting the SBP week into Staropoints is that 67K Starpoints isn't much, and you will have to start paying a yearly SVN fee of $100, whether or not you trade it in the SVN.

 

[vacationtime1]

If you buy resale, you can buy a 2 bdm. EVERY year deed at WKV for about the same cost, and you will have 148,100 Staroptions every year, for about the same upfront cost. 148,100 Staroptions is enough for any 2 bdm. TS in the Starwood system - as available.

You can still use the SBP week for your personal use and as a II trader - you just need to get organized and put your request in earlier.

That would give you an inexpensive II trader (SBP) and a Staroptions trader (WKV) - which would be my preference. The main disadvantage to putting the SBP week into Staropoints is that 67K Starpoints isn't much, and you will have to start paying a yearly SVN fee of $100, whether or not you trade it in the SVN.

What Starwood wants to sell you is a every other year "gold plus" season unit -- a 2 bd. that has only 81,000 StarOptions every other year. This has three problems: (1) if you split the WKV unit, you have only 44,000 and 37,000 StarOptions for your two trades, not enough trading power for even a studio unit in Hawaii, etc.; (2) maintenance fees are the same for gold plus season as they are for platinum season, so you get less bang for your MF buck; and (3) you can buy an annual gold plus unit on the resale market for about $5,000 - $7,000; Starwood's proposed buy-in price is about 4 times market price (twice as much money for every other year usage).

SBP trades well. Denise is correct about the advance planning necessary to make it work. I own two SBP units and routinely get off season Hawaii trades.

A 2 bd. annual platinum unit at WKV will cost closer to $17,000 - $19,000 on the resale market. This would provide 148,100 StarOptions annually. It is a powerful trader (using StarOptions, not Interval) and it will trade into any Starwood resort (assuming availability), but at a very different price point than SBP.

But think carefully before doing anything (obviously you are doing so by posting here). If your premise is that the Starwood product is not getting you the trades and the vacations you want, the solution is probably not to buy more of it.

 

[DanCali]

Compare to "optimal" strategy

I believe the most cost-effective thing you can do given what you are trying to achieve is to sell or even give away your SBP timeshare and buy a resale 2BR Platinum at WKV. As vacationtime1 states, the upfront cost will be higher (approximately $17K-19K with closing costs) but on the other hand:

• You end up with 148K SOs

• You have no immediate equity loss - you should be able to sell your timeshare a month later at approximately the same price.

• You have only one ongoing maintenance fee

With the Starwood proposal, you also end up with 148K SOs and pay less upfront but the EOY 2BR Gold WKV is worth about $2K-$3K on the resale market, so you lose 70%-80% of your "investment" almost immediately. You also need to pay two ongoing maintenance fees every year...

Starwood eviscerated resale prices with their high MFs and the creation of voluntary resorts and yet they expect you to pay full retail price knowing you'd lose almost all your investment. Unless you are shooting for 5* Elite and have $100K to spare, there isn't much reason to buy retail until either resale prices are much higher, or retail prices are much lower.

One other note - tell your salesperson to show you the Westins with 5K or even 7K points a night... they are all 10K to 12K. This is how Starwood devalues points every year - move hotels to higher point requirements. Unlike Hilton, your conversion for points stays constant though... I use points myself, but they are not as valuable as they were 10 or even 5 years ago.

 

[jerseygirl]

At a minimum, I would talk to SBP to see what they can offer in the way of a retro/upgrade. I own two SBP weeks -- a 2-BR in SVN and a 1-BR that is not in SVN.

$881 2-BR Maint Fee ... used for a week at HRA (I don't pay SVN fees due to the multiple unit policy ... but add $109/$33 if applicable). I retor'd this week to trade into HRA only .......... and so far, it's working, but I don't necessarily get the "best weeks."

$500 1-BR Maint Fee ... plus about $500 in exchange and "bonus" fees through SFX .... got a summer week at the Manhattan Club, a prime spring break week in Puerto Vallarta ... and I still have a bonus week left to use.

Due to increasing maint fees, SBP is no longer the bargain it once was. But, 4 weeks (including one Harborside) for under $2000 is still a good deal (less than my maint fees for a week at HRA -- but I don't get to choose the timing with a SO week, so it's a tradeoff, I guess).

I know the "conventional wisdom" is that the internal trading system is better -- my experience is just different, I guess. I wouldn't pay $17K for a WKV week just to get trades that are readily available via exchange companies. But, I completely agree with the advice to look at the maintenance fees over the long term ... and concentrate your purchases where you can get the best bang (most weeks) for your $.

 

[RLG]

1. Thew will convert our floating red week 2 BR unit at Sheraton Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach to the points system...
4. We would pay $10,900.

Am I missing something here? Is Starwood now willing to do a retro for only 10,900 instead of the 15000/20000 they previously were requiring?

I'm surprised nobody has commented on this aspect of the proposal.

 

[timster1983]

SVN

What about the benefit of SVN? I believe I read in another thread that Sheraton does not allow resales to belong to SVN. Again the salesperson told us that exchanging in SVN instead of II was more advantageous, we would get more desirable dates and properties, and the exchange fee would be less expensive. What about SVN?

Thank you.

 

[jarta]

timster, ... Starwood/Sheraton does not allow any resales to automatically remain in SVN.

If the resale is at a mandatory resort, the Staroptions transfer and can be used anywhere else in the SVO network for internal trading. If the resale is at a voluntary resort, the Staroptions do not transfer and you must vacation at that SVO resort in the season you purchased or use II or some other external system for timeshare trading.

To get any resale back into the SVN, the resale must be retroed along with an expensive, new direct purchase from the developer.

SVN membership only makes sense if you want to be at the 4 or 5 Star Elite level. Most people have neither the money to acquire the necessary resale and developer units and pay the yearly assessments on all those weeks or the money and time and ambition to take 6 weeks of vacation a year including all the travel and other costs.

For most people, being in SVN means less than you seem to think. ... eom

 

[DeniseM]

What about the benefit of SVN? I believe I read in another thread that Sheraton does not allow resales to belong to SVN.

Westin Kierland Villas is a mandatory resort, so yes, it has Staroptions and it's in the SVN, along with a few other resorts. See the Starwood FAQ at the top of the page for a complete list of mandatory resorts.

Again the salesperson told us that exchanging in SVN instead of II was more advantageous, we would get more desirable dates and properties, and the exchange fee would be less expensive. What about SVN?

With timeshares in the SVN, you have to pay the SVN fee of Approx. $108 every year, whether you exchange or not. Your II membership is included in your fees., but you can't put non-SVN timeshares in the Acct., so you have to have 2 Accts. if you own other timeshares.

With II, a Starwood to Starwood exchange fee is $114, but you don't pay, unless you make an exchange. II membership is currently $49 a year with the 2-for-1 discount, but you can put any timeshares you own in this one Acct.

As far as "more desirable dates and properties," it depends on when and where you want to go. If you want holiday weeks at the prime resorts, then it doesn't matter whether you use II or the SVN - it's going to be difficult. WSJ, Harborside, Ski weeks, and Hawaii for weeks 51 & 52 are impossible or nearly impossible. If you are not locked into specific holidays weeks, it's more doable through both II and the SVN.

This is the real advantage of using II:

You can use a very inexpensive voluntary trader and trade into a timeshare that is much more expensive. For example, I have traded my SDO 1 bdm. with a maintenance fee of $611.25 for a 2 bdm. in Hawaii that has a maintenance fee of $2,373.90. Yes, you could use a WKV week and make the same trade - but why use an expensive mandatory week, when you can use a cheap voluntary week?

Since you already own SBP, and it has little or no resale value, I'd hang onto it and learn how to use it for a very good II trader. If you really want Staroptions, then WKV will give you the best Staroptions/maintenance fee ratio, and you could add it as a 2nd week. Either way, to be successful with trading, you have to be able to make long term plans.

 

[DanCali]

SVN membership only makes sense if you want to be at the 4 or 5 Star Elite level.

jarta - surely you did not mean to say what this reads?

There are plenty of reasons to buy a resale mandatory resort and enjoy the Staroptions... Wanting to travel during peak seasons is a good reason for example.

Now buying a developer unit to retro, imo, makes sense only if you are shooting for 5* Elite...

 

[jerseygirl]

....Wanting to travel during peak seasons is a good reason for example....

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Even non-SVN members travel during peak season. Shhhh .... don't tell anyone!

-- From the Hilton Waikoloa (traded in with SVR converted to RCI points) .... yeah, it's not peak season, but it's beautiful here!

 

[timster1983]

thanks

Thanks to all who posted. I am not going to purchase the developer unit but do what Denise suggested: keep the SBP unit and try to book weeks in advance to make it a better trader and then continue to explore my options for another week. The wife really liked WKV, they were very nice, and she wouldn't mind coming back every other year or so. We really want a strong trader for the weeks we don't return to WKV so we will explore a resale with HGVC or Marrriott or a resale in Hawaii.

Again, thanks to all who replied to my questions.

 

[DeniseM]

Tim - With your SBP week, you can deposit it on Jan. 1 - 12 mos. before the use year. So you can deposit your 2010 and 2011 weeks now, and your 2012 week on Jan. 1.

You can immediately put in a request for trades, and you'll have up to 2 years after the use year. When you make the request, you must put in a minimum of 3 dates or 3 resorts. The way to get what you want is to sit down with your family and a calendar and make some long-term plans. Please feel free to bounce some ideas off this forum and get some feed-back on your plans/strategies.

Good luck!

 

[SDKath]

Am I missing something here? Is Starwood now willing to do a retro for only 10,900 instead of the 15000/20000 they previously were requiring?

I'm surprised nobody has commented on this aspect of the proposal.

I was thinking the same thing! Great minds think alike. This is quite a big deal as far as the "rules" go that they tightened last year regarding retros and upgrades.

Are they essentially selling an EOY Gold WKV for $10,000 and retroing a SBP in the process? That's unprecendented...

Katherine

 

[timster1983]

Value?

Sounds like the $10,900 is low for the retro plus the EOY week at WKV. Does this mean you think I should jump on it or is still expensive compared to resale?

Salesperson said because we bought at SBP when it was still an Embassy Suites before they were bought by Starwood we were getting a special deal. I thought this was just salesspeak... but it sounds like he was right.

 

[DanCali]

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Even non-SVN members travel during peak season. Shhhh .... don't tell anyone!

-- From the Hilton Waikoloa (traded in with SVR converted to RCI points) .... yeah, it's not peak season, but it's beautiful here!

I'm sure it's possible to get some good weeks with II or RCI once in a while. But the reality is that Starwood controls what gets deposited, not owners. Their incetives to deposit high-demand weeks into II are "unclear".

Conversely, in a system like Marriott's (or any other one for that matter) some owners pick up good weeks purely for trading purposes, so the "good" weeks are much more likely to be in II inventory.

Personally, if I trade via II then I'd prefer to do it under a different umbrella...

 

[DanCali]

Sounds like the $10,900 is low for the retro plus the EOY week at WKV. Does this mean you think I should jump on it or is still expensive compared to resale?

Salesperson said because we bought at SBP when it was still an Embassy Suites before they were bought by Starwood we were getting a special deal. I thought this was just salesspeak... but it sounds like he was right.

The fact that it's unprecedented doesn't make it a good deal. A retro is still hard to justify given that you pay retail prices...

The fact of the matter is that what you buy will be worth about 80% less on the resale market. Here is an annual Gold unit eBay auction that ended earlier today for $4150:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300429289343

Their proposal entails:

$11K out of pocket with approx. a $9K immediate loss.
For this you get 148K SOs every other year and 67K SOs every other year.
Some upfront hotel points and ability to convert to hotel points.

Would you buy a stock or a ar if you knew it would be worth 80% less 10 days after you buy it?

If you want to trade with Staroptions, see other posts in this thread for better (more cost effective) ways to do it. Or give II trading with your SBP a shot...

That said, if you do take their deal - know that others were required to pay much more until now to do this.

 

[Ken555]

If you really want StarOptions then buy an annual week which will become 148,100 StarOptions once retroed. For instance, a Platinum WMH won't cost much these days but is worth the full 148 annually if retroed. And yes, retroing a week for only $10,900 is a great deal...if you want the StarOptions. But why "waste" the long term value of the retro by only getting 67k SOs when you could get much more instead?

 

[jerseygirl]

I'm sure it's possible to get some good weeks with II or RCI once in a while. But the reality is that Starwood controls what gets deposited, not owners. Their incetives to deposit high-demand weeks into II are "unclear".

Conversely, in a system like Marriott's (or any other one for that matter) some owners pick up good weeks purely for trading purposes, so the "good" weeks are much more likely to be in II inventory.

Personally, if I trade via II then I'd prefer to do it under a different umbrella...

Yeah, I guess this is true if you limit yourself to Starwood resorts (although several Tuggers have reported <privately> getting summer WKORV weeks via II through ongoing requests). But, there's an entire world out there of great non-Starwood resorts. I know this is the Starwood board, so it's natural for the focus to be on Starwood. But, IMO, there are a plethora of other great resorts ... Marriotts, Hiltons, Hyatts, Royals, Grand Mayans, etc. The reports of not being able to get these great resorts unless you own one are greatly exaggerated. And, the voluntary resorts trade great for these purposes -- they even get prime weeks. That was my point!

 

[Captron]

Yeah, I guess this is true if you limit yourself to Starwood resorts (although several Tuggers have reported <privately> getting summer WKORV weeks via II through ongoing requests). But, there's an entire world out there of great non-Starwood resorts. I know this is the Starwood board, so it's natural for the focus to be on Starwood. But, IMO, there are a plethora of other great resorts ... Marriotts, Hiltons, Hyatts, Royals, Grand Mayans, etc. The reports of not being able to get these great resorts unless you own one are greatly exaggerated. And, the voluntary resorts trade great for these purposes -- they even get prime weeks. That was my point!

I agree. By exchanging well I have used a 1BR SBP (from LO unit) to get into a very nice Hawaii 2BR all 3 times I have tried. (Not a Westin or Marriott, but a very nice unit none the less - Motel 6 this was NOT!) Once was during peak season in July. Learn to use your SBP well and you will have a world open before you. Depositing early to maximize trading value and planning your vacation 12+ months out to start looking is key! Get those 2011 weeks in now! I bought SBP back PRE-construction too! Feel free to send me a PM if I can help.

Good Luck and Happy Travels.

 

[yumdrey]

We went to a developer presentation this morning and they made an offer that is very tempting. I would like to know what everyone else thinks to make sure I am thinking of everything.

1. Thew will convert our floating red week 2 BR unit at Sheraton Broadway at the Beach in Myrtle Beach to the points system.
2. They will give us 67,000 starwood options for the Myrtle Beach week.
3. They want us to buy an every other year 2 BR lockoff at the Westin Kierland which is 81,000 starwood options.
4. We would pay $10,900.

I would buy resale, every other year, PLATINUM SEASON westin kierland villa with $10,000. It will give you 148,100 staroptions every other year.
In case you will sell it later, this every other year platinum season will have much more value than gold season every other year (81000 staroption). These days, 81000 EVERY YEAR 2BR lock off WKV are sold $4,000 - $4,500 on ebay. So every other year will be about half of it.

 

[DanCali]

Yeah, I guess this is true if you limit yourself to Starwood resorts (although several Tuggers have reported <privately> getting summer WKORV weeks via II through ongoing requests). But, there's an entire world out there of great non-Starwood resorts. I know this is the Starwood board, so it's natural for the focus to be on Starwood. But, IMO, there are a plethora of other great resorts ... Marriotts, Hiltons, Hyatts, Royals, Grand Mayans, etc. The reports of not being able to get these great resorts unless you own one are greatly exaggerated. And, the voluntary resorts trade great for these purposes -- they even get prime weeks. That was my point!

I was kind of making a similar point from a different angle...

I agree that there's an entire world out there of great non-Starwood resorts... I just don't need to own a Starwood (with whatever limitations the developer places on my trading power) to trade into them This is even more so if I don't really care about trading into a Starwood resort - in that case owning a Marriott with II priority to over 50 resorts seems like a no brainer... (at least under the current program rules)

 

[jerseygirl]

I was kind of making a similar point from a different angle...

I agree that there's an entire world out there of great non-Starwood resorts... I just don't need to own a Starwood (with whatever limitations the developer places on my trading power) to trade into them This is even more so if I don't really care about trading into a Starwood resort - in that case owning a Marriott with II priority to over 50 resorts seems like a no brainer... (at least under the current program rules)

True .... but the OP already owns a Starwood. There's no reason to go through the hassles of selling and pay more money for a different brand. SBP trades VERY well ... to both Starwood and non-Starwoods.