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Sandcastle P'town owners -Festiva

Two entities ... two developers??

the mystery is:

NEVS purchased the resorts for $1.2 million

NEVS mortgaged the resorts for $2.5 million the same day

FESTIVA is not on those documents BUT in the POS

FESTIVA is the DEVELOPER and

NEVS is a SELLER

why would someone take out a mortgage for $2.5 million if someone else is the developer and they are just the 'sales force'???? Sounds fishy to me! Unless FESTIVA has some other relationship with NEVS/Outfield that is hidden in the convolution of the paperwork.

Chris

Chris ...

I could be wrong but I think there are two entities .... no nessarily separate to outward appearances. From what I can see NEVS is the developer of Sandcastle Resort and Festiva is the developer of FAC. NEVS also is a seller for Festiva of FAC. Everything is so convoluted and twisted around each other that it can be very confusing. I think Tombo said it correctly ... some where, some how, some way, Festiva/NEVS/Outfield are all hooked at the hip and it is going to take some deep digging and sharp looking to find it. Not one of these entities are in this for any other reason other than to line their pockets and fatten their bank accounts.

Jean
 
Tombo ...

From what you have written here am I safe in assuming that what was once a week that was helping to support the resort could change hands and at some future time still be exchanged but not help support the resort any longer?

Could this scenario happen? Mr. Brown owns a week in July at Sandcastle and has paid his MFs and SAs diligently through the years. He turns his deeded property over to FAC and gets his points. A few years down the road Mr. Brown gets fed up with trying to get a decent week at a resort and is tired of paying MFs and membership fees in II or any other system. He quits the FAC. Now this week in July no longer has a paying member of FAC. Does this unit join the Developers bag of tricks as an unpaid unit and in doing so, it no longer supports the resort?

Jean

Yes, at most Festiva affiliated resorts any unpaid, reposessed inventory becomes festiva's property to own, sell, and vote. Most of the time they start out at resorts by buying all of the HOA owned inventory or unsold inventory from a prior developer. Any developer weeks which haven't been converted to Festiva Points are festiva's as are any unsold or reposessed festiva points. Festiva pays no MF's, assessments, or taxes on any festiva owned week or points. So yes when Mr Brown quits paying for his points festive will own the points, vote the points, resell the points, but they won't pay any associated expenses for upgrading or maintaing any resort that the points have an underlying deed for.

It is worse than that. Mr brown owns nothing but some imaginary Festiva points. If festiva shuts it's doors or files bankruptcy, the points unlike a deeded week are worthless. If Festiva remains solvent and even if Mr Brown still pays his FAC dues each year, Festiva doesn't have to send a penny of Mr brown's money to the resort he used to own a week at because he is no longer paying to maintain a particular resort he owns, he is paying to be a member of Festiva Adventure Club.


If Festiva likes resort A and has a lot of sales for resort A, they can shift money paid into the festiva Adventure club by members who used to own weeks at resorts B, C, and D and pay all of the expenses at resort A. The people who used to own at resorts B,C,and D no longer own anything there. When they pay their annual MF's and assessments, Festiva can spend their money anywhere they want and for anything they want. It is no longer a particular resort's owners or mf's, it is now Festiva Adventure Club's money to spend as Festiva sees fit. Festiva can spend extra money on a resort where they own a lot of unsold inventory renovating and maintaining it better to help sales while putting very little cash towards the upkeep at resorts where they are almost sold out like resorts b, c, and d. Then festiva can then assess and/or raise MF's at resorts b, c, and d to cover the shortfalls.

Of course Festiva owes the resorts x-$ per week owned at the resort, and they supposedly have to pay that. Actually they don't because they control the votes on the board. They can reduce the amount owed per week to a level that will not support resorts B,C,and D using their festiva appointed board. Then of course all weeks members at B,C, and D will have to pay higher MF's and possible assessments to cover the money siphoned out to other Festiva resorts. Also if things get tough they can simply give the weeks they own back to resorts B, C, and D and walk away from them. They get to keep all the former owners they converted to Festiva points from the resort as paying FAC members while leaving resorts B,C, and D without enough owners to survive.

These are not probable scenarios, but these are things that could happen because of the way that Festiva makes you pay FAC for 30 years because you joined their points club, but guarantees you nothing but access to their club's available inventory. It is stated that resorts in the FAC are subject to change, so what you used to own is not necessarily a resort you will be able to continue to visit.
 
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Chris ...

I could be wrong but I think there are two entities .... no nessarily separate to outward appearances. From what I can see NEVS is the developer of Sandcastle Resort and Festiva is the developer of FAC. NEVS also is a seller for Festiva of FAC. Everything is so convoluted and twisted around each other that it can be very confusing. I think Tombo said it correctly ... some where, some how, some way, Festiva/NEVS/Outfield are all hooked at the hip and it is going to take some deep digging and sharp looking to find it. Not one of these entities are in this for any other reason other than to line their pockets and fatten their bank accounts.

Jean

Jean has the two developers part correctly. FestivaRep has denied the other allegation, so that part is opinion. The mortgage issue is conjecture, but is an interesting question that is awaiting FestivaRep's reply.

So the scorecard look like:

NEVS is the developer for SandCastle
Festiva is the developer for FAC
NEVS is also selling FAC

NEVS has decided to offer SandCastle owners the "privilege" of converting their SandCastle week into Festiva. So in that transaction, NEVS is selling FAC, and Festiva is the developer. Which is what you see in the POS.

Nothing in that POS document states that Festiva is the developer of SandCastle. The POS is for FAC.
 
How come Sandcastle is not listed on the roster of Festiva Resorts? I know it is not owned by Festiva or run by Festiva (it could be said that it is run by their lackeys), but FAC is being sold there. Southcape is not owned or run by Festiva and it is listed on the Festiva website as a "Resort that is not managed by Festiva" and as the "newest vacation destination for Festiva Adventure Club members".

Is there any significance in the fact that both of these resorts are being sold to prospective FAC members (onsite) but only one is listed on the Festiva website?
 
My guess to Jean's question is the number of weeks that Festiva has access to at that resort. But just a guess. Perhaps it should be directed to FestivaRep for a reply.

Does anyone know how many developer weeks NEVS has at SandCastle?
 
My guess to Jean's question is the number of weeks that Festiva has access to at that resort. But just a guess. Perhaps it should be directed to FestivaRep for a reply.

Does anyone know how many developer weeks NEVS has at SandCastle?

That was one of my questions to FestivaRep in my post of August 1, 2009,
 
415 Sandcastle conversions

A quick reply to whoever was wondering how many Sandcastle owners have converted to FAC. There are 425 recorded as of 7/17/2009. Most of them converted before Festiva was registered to do business in Massachusetts.
https://72.8.52.132/ALIS/WW400R.PGM
 
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Google Festiva Resorts and see their 'newest' address!!!!!!!

Just googled Festiva Resorts to see if there were any new reports and lookee, lookee - they have a NEW address in Denton, TX - on good ole Hickory Street, who woulda thought!!!! :eek:



Festiva Resorts LLC 135 E Hickory St Denton, TX 76201-4215 - (940) 565-0030
Write a review - Directions and more »
maps.google.com

Chris
 
Just googled Festiva Resorts to see if there were any new reports and lookee, lookee - they have a NEW address in Denton, TX - on good ole Hickory Street, who woulda thought!!!! :eek:



Festiva Resorts LLC 135 E Hickory St Denton, TX 76201-4215 - (940) 565-0030
Write a review - Directions and more »
maps.google.com

Chris

The rent is probably so high on that building and these people being responsible citizens, they are all sharing the rent and utilities. Trying to eliminate any extras to help out us poor owners.
 
A quick reply to whoever was wondering how many Sandcastle owners have converted to FAC. There are 425 recorded as of 7/17/2009. Most of them converted before Festiva was registered to do business in Massachusetts.
https://72.8.52.132/ALIS/WW400R.PGM

That is an appalling number of victims of this ripoff. I wonder if the AG will take action to defend the owners who were conned back before Festiva was registered to do business?

In dealing with the local AG, the proceedings by AG's of other states should be stressed. The message should be that other state AG's are protecting their consumers from these scam artists, and the local AG should follow their lead. The fact that the very same scammers invovled in these other states have been unleashed on local citizens should also be mentioned.

Maybe the AG can force them to unwind the conversions that occured before the registration to do business.
 
ChrisH and SOU13 and other ma. dwellers:
Since you guys(neuter) live in ma. ,why not see if you can get some help in a ma. law school legal clinic or "shame on you" expose' thru a local TV station. They might be able to help at no cost.
 
ChrisH and SOU13 and other ma. dwellers:
Since you guys(neuter) live in ma. ,why not see if you can get some help in a ma. law school legal clinic or "shame on you" expose' thru a local TV station. They might be able to help at no cost.

I already contacted the ABC affiliate in Boston and sent them the footage from the NC ABC station. I didn't even receive an acknowledgment. In the same vein, I did contact the NC station that had the news about Festiva and told them they were doing the same thing in Massachusetts. At least he (the newscaster/reporter) responded. He said that they may revisit the story and he could include my information.
 
The latest stalling tactic

Three or more weeks ago I sent an email to Cliff Hagberg. Among other things I requested the list of Sandcastle owners. His response was: He had turned the request over to the Board of Trustees. Yesterday I replied back and brought it to attention that I had not heard any thing further from him or the Board. His response and I quote: "We have your request and it is on the agenda for the next board meeting in the fall. "

So now instead of blatantly breaking MA law by saying a flat NO, they are just putting people off and still not providing the list.

I can't help but wonder what some or all of us have done in another life to be exposed to this bunch of hooligans. How can they so blatantly lie, steal, cheat, and break laws and nothing is done by the authorities?

I have a feeling that any of us who contacted the MA AG all got the same 'canned' response. It is disheartening to say the least.
 
I have a feeling that any of us who contacted the MA AG all got the same 'canned' response. It is disheartening to say the least.

Does the MA AG complaint form have a space asking what specific remedy you seek? I just wonder what would happen if a complaint focused only on the narrow issue of the owners' list, asking the AG to help in obtaining the list under MA General Law. Also, maybe the same complaint could be sent to the BBB.

Michael
 
Who regulates timeshare in Massachusetts? In North Carolina, it is the Real Estate Commission, and that is the entity that has provided the most real help against overbearing and lawbreaking developers/management, not the AG. The Real Estate Commission has put some pressure on behind the scenes a number of times that got overbearing developers to turn over the reins of control. In at least one instance, at Bodie Island Beach Club, they opened a formal investigation which led to the loss of control by the developer and the homeowners gaining control, and also led to the loss of the developer's real estate license.
 
Three or more weeks ago I sent an email to Cliff Hagberg. Among other things I requested the list of Sandcastle owners. His response was: He had turned the request over to the Board of Trustees. Yesterday I replied back and brought it to attention that I had not heard any thing further from him or the Board. His response and I quote: "We have your request and it is on the agenda for the next board meeting in the fall. "

So now instead of blatantly breaking MA law by saying a flat NO, they are just putting people off and still not providing the list.

I can't help but wonder what some or all of us have done in another life to be exposed to this bunch of hooligans. How can they so blatantly lie, steal, cheat, and break laws and nothing is done by the authorities?

I have a feeling that any of us who contacted the MA AG all got the same 'canned' response. It is disheartening to say the least.

They can do whatever they want unless owners work together to take action against the developer and assert their rights.
 
They can do whatever they want unless owners work together to take action against the developer and assert their rights.

That is absolutely the key. You HAVE to get organized if you are going to stop this travesty.
 
Division Of Professional Licensure

Who regulates timeshare in Massachusetts? In North Carolina, it is the Real Estate Commission, and that is the entity that has provided the most real help against overbearing and lawbreaking developers/management, not the AG. The Real Estate Commission has put some pressure on behind the scenes a number of times that got overbearing developers to turn over the reins of control. In at least one instance, at Bodie Island Beach Club, they opened a formal investigation which led to the loss of control by the developer and the homeowners gaining control, and also led to the loss of the developer's real estate license.
Application for Complaint
 
Weekly Meetings

Does anyone know about the weekly group meetings that Cliff has been having with owners at Sandcastle this summer? I don't know if it is just owners or if anyone can attend.
 

This looks like a complaint against a real estate licence, which is a different thing. Depending on the facts, as at Bodie Island Beach Club, a developer's personal real estate license may also get sucked into a timeshare investigation, but this is not the primary focus of the complaint that needs to be made.

You need to determine how proactive your Commission is in investigating timeshare management. Hopefully you will find someone as proactive and consumer-friendly as Blackwell Brogden was during his many years at the NC Real Estate Commission. Brogden not only took on the small fry developers like the one at BIBC, but he would tangle with anyone he did not think was giving consumers a fair shake, up to and including RCI. When RCI Points first tried to come into North Carolina, Brogden opened an investigation of them and ginned up interest among his colleagues in other states. Brogden held his ground and would not let them operate as an exchange system in the state unless they made some substantial changes in the way they first rolled out GPN/RCI Points. RCI waved a white flag and caved in to Brogden's demands. If you are lucky to find someone like Brogden at your Real Estate Commission, I am sure he will tear NEVS and Festiva into little pieces.

If Festiva was selling before it was registered that is one complaint that should be made. If you can find some people who got conned into converting in that time period, maybe Festiva can be forced to give them their money and weeks back.
 
None while I was there

Does anyone know about the weekly group meetings that Cliff has been having with owners at Sandcastle this summer? I don't know if it is just owners or if anyone can attend.

They didn't have this during week 27 - July 4 - 11; I think they started just after that. (and I think it was related to all the stuff here on TUG - if you go read all the complaints to NEVMSLLC during that timeframe.)

Chris
 
TO: NEVMSLLC - or anyone else with the MA address

What is the correct postal mailing address for NEVMS LLC in Massachusetts? I mailed items to 93 Hawes Avenue and they came back.

If I want to mail you something what is the postal address.

If anyone else has this mailing address, please let me know.
Thanks
 
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NEVS is the developer for SandCastle
Festiva is the developer for FAC
NEVS is also selling FAC

NEVS has decided to offer SandCastle owners the "privilege" of converting their SandCastle week into Festiva. So in that transaction, NEVS is selling FAC, and Festiva is the developer. Which is what you see in the POS.

Nothing in that POS document states that Festiva is the developer of SandCastle. The POS is for FAC.

That's correct, Festiva is the Developer of the FAC, NOT Sandcastle or Southcape.
 
Outfield Marketing

Wow, talk about being a glutton for punishment! I just got a call from someone at Outfield Marketing who wanted to hear all about my experience meeting with one of their reps at the Sandcastle early last month. I gladly enumerated all the lies I had been told and the pressures that were exerted on me. When she asked if I had been treated courteously, I told her that I thought it pretty discourteous to treat someone like a complete idiot who was going to believe anything he was told.

She asked why I had decided not to convert to points, and I told her that it was partly because I was lied to and partly because I wasn't shown anything in writing, just a bunch of vague oral promises. She asked me if I wanted her to fax me a copy of the contract so I could see what it actually said, and I told her that the only way I'd consider doing business with them is if they fired the rep I had spoken to and repudiated their sales tactics. Obviously, they weren't going to do that.

If any of you want to discuss your experiences dealing with an Outfield rep, their office manager is Trishia Morrow, and she can be reached at (800) 436-9094. Maybe if they get enough complaints, they'll get the message.

Michael
 
M. Weinberg;
Here are answers to the questions you sent me today.

1. Does the relationship between Festiva and Outfield extend beyond simply hiring them for outside sales?
No.

2. Do Festiva and Outfield have any board members in common?
No.

3. Is Outfield owned, in whole or in part, by Festiva?
No.

4. Does Outfield provide sales services for any organizations other than yours?
Yes.

5. Why on earth would Festiva keep on such an underhanded organization which has been the cause of so much trouble and of so many complaints?

Any complaints received by Festiva against Outfield sales tactics are addressed quickly by our owner services department. Outfield has always been responsive in resolving sales complaints received by our office.

In June, we promoted someone who has worked in several departments of Festiva as the Corporate Trainer for all sales sites. After spending about a month at our corporate office working with all departments, she has been traveling for the last month to all of our sales sites to ensure that the reps are properly trained on the FAC product and are given accurate and up to date information to pass on to customers. She also had a training session with Outfield reps in MA (I think as recently as last week), so that should prevent any further misinformation about Festiva and the Adventure Club from coming from any Outfield reps. She will continue to act as a liaison between our corporate office and all sales sites to ensure that anyone who sits through a presentation about the FAC is given complete and accurate information about the product.

6. How is it that Southcape is listed on the Festiva website as a "member of Festiva's family of resorts"?
There are Southcape owners who have upgraded to the Festiva Adventure Club. Therefore, we list Southcape as a resort that is available for use by Adventure Club members.

7. Did the Southcape homeowners approve this affiliation?
Festiva’s agreement is with the resort developer. If there is a requirement to have such an affiliation (II or RCI) approved by the homeowner’s association, the owners should discuss that issue with the resort developer.

8. Are the homeowners receiving anything in return?
Festiva is not the developer or manager of the resort and would not be involved with any discussions with the homeowner’s association.

9. Does Festiva own a majority of the intervals at Southcape?
No.

10. How many Festiva memberships have been sold at the Sandcastle and Southcape?
This would be a question for the resort developer.

11. Does Festiva really have sufficient inventory to list either or both of these resorts as trading opportunities?
Yes.
 
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