Sandcastle P'town owners -Festiva

[tombo]

Yes, Festiva is involved with trying to convert owners to points, but the resort is getting reburbished and is in good standing. Sandcastle is in a great location and I don't want potential owners or renters to hesitate buying or renting here.

Festiva ownership and management kills the value of a resort by implementing double digit MF increases and assessing until owners just want out for free. Church Street Inn in Charleston SC was a hard to buy resort before festiva acquired it because owners loved their resort, they enjoyed their low annual MF's, so consequently owner's didn't want to sell their weeks. Once Festiva raised their 1 bed room annual MF's from about $429 a year to $550 in Festiva's first year (2007), owners started selling their weeks. Since 2006 the MF's have increased from $429 to the current $685 in 2009. That is an increase averaging 20% per year and a total increase of 60% in 3 years. As a result of runaway MF's the resort is now more attractive to trade for with RCI than to own. There are 3 Church Street Inn auctions on e-bay that had starting bids of $1 that didn't receive a single bid in the last week (auction numbers 250387307837, 290304295666, 350177063403 ). Festiva kills the golden goose with greed IMO.

http://69.16.236.4/~tugbbsc/forums/showthread.php?t=34428

At the Atrium St Maarten where Festiva took over the owners have filed a law suit because: " Festiva announces the increase in maintenance fees for 2007 of 10% plus in addition a 2 times the annual maintenance fee, Special Assessment." in it's first year as owner. This is a good read to prepare for what they do at every resort they acquire:

http://stmaartenstmartin-jeff.blogspot.com/2008/03/st-maarten-timeshare-owners-alert.html

Yes your resort will be refurbished, but you will pay dearly for the refurbishment. You will have little if any accountability or transparency from Festiva regarding what exactly was done, or how much it cost in labor, materials etc. You will get a dollar total that Festiva claims to have spent on refurbishing which you must accept no questions asked. Try to make Festive get 3 local contactors to bid on the refurbishment like most mgt companies do. Festiva will tell owners what needs to be done, hire who they want, spend money whether it is necessary or not, and bill the owners who have no input. After they get through assessing the owners, you will pay a whole lot more in ever increasing MF's each and every year. These increased expenses will be mostly for the benefit of Festiva's bottom line, not for the benefit of the owners IMO. But the good news is that if you can afford to pay the assessments, and if you can continue to afford to pay (or be willing to pay) the annual MF increases to vacation at your home resort each year, you will own at a newly refurbished resort.

 

[FestivaRep]

Festiva ownership and management kills the value of a resort by implementing double digit MF increases and assessing until owners just want out for free.

The resort that Craig is referring to, Sandcastle, is not managed by Festiva, so they are not involved with the maintenance fees, assessments or refurbishments.

 

[Fig]

The resort that Craig is referring to, Sandcastle, is not managed by Festiva, so they are not involved with the maintenance fees, assessments or refurbishments.

Thank you for your helpful information. Outfield Marketing is very active at Sandcastle---just call their number! Are they selling Festiva Adventure Club points to Sandcastle owners and converting them to points here through im home meetings? If so, it may be only a mater of time before Sandcastle becomes a Festiva property.

 

[tombo]

The resort that Craig is referring to, Sandcastle, is not managed by Festiva, so they are not involved with the maintenance fees, assessments or refurbishments.

Once Outfield sells enough Festiva points to give Festiva ownership of enough weeks to control the vote (once an owner converts to Festiva points the deeded week and the vote belongs to festiva), then Festiva will vote themselves in as the mgt company. Once they control the vote and manage the resort, the money drain begins. It is just a matter of time unless the majority of owners refuse to swap to festiva points. If they fall vicitm to the Outfiled FAC points sales pitch, they will give up their deed, their rights, their vote, and ultimatelly their resort.

 

[Sou13]

More on Sandcastle

This discussion was continued here (probably by a TUG moderator):
[merged] Sandcastle Shift to "Festiva" Points ( 1 2)

The "major news" in this discussion is that there is an owners' meeting coming up in April and there's more about those meetings in the merged discussion.

 

[Laurie]

HOA meeting Sat April 25th noon, at the resort

Right - the HOA meeting is scheduled for Saturday April 25th at noon, at the resort. I'm a southeasterner and can't make it, but hopefully as many of you northeasterners as possible (and from places farther away if you can) will be there.

The meeting announcement was posted by dneuser both earlier in this thread, as well as at post #6 here:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86039

Did other owners get notice of this meeting mailed to them? I can't put my hand on the mailing, if I did (but I've recently moved so maybe it got misplaced in the process).

Let's keep bumping up the meeting dates and times, so owners who could make it don't miss it!

 

[Welfaric]

Hi FestivaRep
When the outfield rep came to my house but was disappointed that my better half was not there and left, even after I told him just to go ahead it was ok to work with just me.
My question is....If this is up and up no pressure meeting where they want to make sure we understand the possibilities, Then why in the world would he not just do his speal and leave?

Even you have to admit this must be a high pressure scam. With no merit at all.

And because there is a possibility you may reply, here is your chance to lay it all out for everyone to read including my better half so we can make an informed decision. Do not worry yourself about 1 room, 2 room, time of year or what not. Just lay it out, how many points do we get at what level and how much it costs. It will be funny trust me.

 

[ecwinch]

My question is....If this is up and up no pressure meeting where they want to make sure we understand the possibilities, Then why in the world would he not just do his speal and leave?

The obvious answer is that he is a salesman, and he knew that he had zero chance to walk away with a signed contract (since for real property both husband and wife need to sign). So you would be immune to his pitch. But you would think that he would be professional enough to least give you the basic spiel.

 

[tombo]

The obvious answer is that he is a salesman, and he knew that he had zero chance to walk away with a signed contract (since for real property both husband and wife need to sign). So you would be immune to his pitch. But you would think that he would be professional enough to least give you the basic spiel.

The ony way they can convince owners to swap their deeded weeks PLUS cash for Festiva points (an even swap would be a bad deal IMO) is to use scare tactics, half truths, and high pressure. If a spouse is missing they can't exert that pressure to buy right now. If they actually explained the program to one spouse leaving them time to think about it, research it, and time discuss the situation with the absent spouse at a later date, they know they will never sell an FAC membership.

Can you imagine explaining to your spouse that a guy came by and said that we need to give him the week we own, plus $3000, and in exchange we are going to become members of a club for 30 years (unless they fold or file bankruptcy earlier than that). They will give us some points each year that we can use to reserve a week in our resort or others (we could already reserve other locations through RCI or II), but people from other resorts can now use their points at our resort too.That will mean more competition to reserve a week at our resort than we currently have as an owner. We will no longer have a vote or any say at all in our resort because we will no longer be owners at our resort. We will not be guaranteed when or even if we will be able to vacation at our resort each year. The MF's and assessments will be determined by the CLUB who will vote the weeks that the CLUB owns to elect a Festiva controlled board and hire themselves as the mgt company. Does it sound like a good deal to you dear? :hysterical:

 

[Sou13]

Meeting notices?

Have you Sandcastle owners gotten your notices of the annual meeting? I got my letter from Southcape today, and our meeting isn't until May 16. Yours is less than 21 days away!

 

[mweinberg]

Have you Sandcastle owners gotten your notices of the annual meeting? I got my letter from Southcape today, and our meeting isn't until May 16. Yours is less than 21 days away!

No, I have received no word about the annual meeting. In fact, the last communication I received was the letter promising, among other things, closer communication with owners and a new, more informative website. I received no response to my letter requesting a copy of the annual budget. And not only is there no new website, but the old website has disappeared. If this is NEVS's idea of communication, I think we're all in serious trouble!

 

[Sou13]

No notices? No meeting?

Thank you, mweinberg, for your post. There are Sandcastle discussions with posts by owners that you might want to contact by private message or email. That's how I've been finding Southcape owners and our meeting isn't until May 16th. Yours is just days away, unless it's not happening!

 

[PClapham]

Letter?

WE haven't received a letter about anything re our Sandcastle week.
Anita

 

[Sou13]

Read this post by Cliff Hagberg

WE haven't received a letter about anything re our Sandcastle week.
Anita

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84127&goto=newpost

 

[c+j]

No, I have received no word about the annual meeting. In fact, the last communication I received was the letter promising, among other things, closer communication with owners and a new, more informative website. I received no response to my letter requesting a copy of the annual budget. And not only is there no new website, but the old website has disappeared. If this is NEVS's idea of communication, I think we're all in serious trouble!

I have just discovered this website and I find it very distressing!
I have owned 1 red week at Sandcastle for about 10 years. NEVER have I
had a notice of an annual meeting. I have wondered if there was an owners association, or if a list of owners was available so that we could all be informed about what is going on with management.
In November I received a bill for the "special assessment" along with an identical letter to the one sent to Southcape owners, and apparently the owners of several other resorts, outlining the poor condition of the property and the past bad management - Bottom line is higher MF and special assessments with no accounting for how funds are used.
There are several threads on this site discussing Festiva's outrageous treatment of owners with deeded weeks. One of them made specific references to Mass. law and the suggestion that the Mass AG should be investigating Festiva's practices.
How can we get this ball rolling?
How can we contact other owners and warn them not to get sucked in and give up their weeks?
If anyone out there has been to the shareholders meeting TODAY, please post something about what went on!

 

[Timesharemogul]

Attended owners' annual meeting today

Well folks, no great surprises here. Everything I predicted in my post of several months ago was dead on correct. In short, things aren't as bad as some would speculate by the amount of chatter here and via E-mails, but there's no question that Sandcastle owners will soon be hit with a special assessment. I'll try to summarize a few of the things I think were highlights of the meeting....
Unfortunately, the annual owners' meeting dragged on and on for too long as a result of a lot of interruptions and off-topic questions by people in attendance who just wouldn't comply with the request Cliff made to hold all questions for a question and answer period after the lengthy agenda was gone through. A few individuals were attempting to quote Mass General Laws and repeatedly fumbled through and lengthened....Most of the questions seemed somewhat ignorant to me but then I had to take business law as a requisite when I went to college here in and later took real estate law (and I wouldn't dare try to present an opinion).
The resort is going to become affiliated with I.I., RCI Points, and has affiliated with Festiva Adventure Club. In order to join up with the former two, many upgrades short of calling it a total remodel are necessary. Most of these upgrades are basic safety/health items like repairing walls/roofs/rotted wood, and replacing old fixtures an carpeting. Beyond this, there's a vision to redesign the lounge into a combination gym/rec area for guest use.
The bottom line price based on a preliminary rough estimate will be about 6 or 7 hundred dollars per week owned. Cliff stated he only began to look at this ballpark figure very recently and is far from coming up with a final number. I'll believe him as long as I don't see a special assessment bill for at least several months time. The work needed to accomplish all the goals of his NEVMS management company to upgrade Sandcastle would take place while the resort is closd during the winter 09-10 shutdown (Dec.-Feb.)
The resort is also getting computers for a reservation system, and NEVMS has proactively hired an aggressive collection agency to go after the deadbeats of the past who owe the trust a ton of cash. The cash received from collections as well as the possibility of the resort selling off the tennis courts and the motel buildin lot in the corner could offset the special assessments and/or the reserve fund which is not in place yet (but will be). Cliff promised that all owners would receive a copy of the minutes of the meeting and said by May 15th a new Sandcastle website would be up and running with the hopes of better communication between owners/management and potential renters.
A couple of odd meeting highlights: The heir to the man who had bought the former Pronto restaurant and converted it into a rental condo was in attendance and made an appeal to sell it back to the resort- owners didn't seem very interested as there is also an issue with it being zoned commercially in the master deed but the town having rezoned that Beach Point area as residential. (The restaurant space wasn't grandfathered as it ceased to operate as such many years ago and the locals won't grant a variance) so the heir's problem with keeping it is that if he has to pay their fair share of maintenance fees, it would wipe him out because this space is huge as it was a large restaurant converted to a residence. So it's almost worthless to anyone now!
The other odd highlight was when one very loud man verbally protested that a woman who was repeatedly asking many questions prior to the alloted time was in attendance at the owners meeting- he pointed out hat as she had bought into "Festiva Adventure Club" she had no business being there with owners. While his point was technically correct, she up and left and I think everyone was embarassed for this poor lady who fell victim to the Outfield Marketing people by deeding her units to Festiva and buying into their club.
After being there for three hours I left after the business portion of the meeting but before the Q & A time. That was about 4 or 5 hours ago....they're probably still doing questions and answers now!

 

[Corky]

Thanks for bringing us up to date.

Do the fixed week owners have any vote at all?

 

[Timesharemogul]

Re: Do the fixed weekers have any votes

Yes, all owners would have a "vote" on any matters if ever there was a vote necessary by owners. No voting is needed at this point.

 

[dneuser]

Adding my thanks for your summary of the meeting. While no one likes special assessments, in my opinion, it is better than ceeding control of our weeks. We had hoped to make the trip up to the Cape but family emergency kept us from going so I really appreciate your taking the time to give us the run down.

 

[tombo]

Well folks, no great surprises here...... but there's no question that Sandcastle owners will soon be hit with a special assessment.

What a surprise, these guys always assess when they gain control of a resort. No quicker or easier way to raise cash than to assess. Get money now, pay supposed bills later.

The resort is going to become affiliated with I.I., RCI Points, and has affiliated with Festiva Adventure Club. In order to join up with the former two, many upgrades short of calling it a total remodel are necessary. Most of these upgrades are basic safety/health items like repairing walls/roofs/rotted wood, and replacing old fixtures an carpeting. Beyond this, there's a vision to redesign the lounge into a combination gym/rec area for guest use.

Did Cliff bring the II and RCI requirements showing in writing what must be done? He obviously stated that he knew what II/RCI required, why not present the II/RCI requirements for all owners to read.In reality improvements and renvations are paid for with owner's assessments so that NEVS can sell weeks easier and make more profit. This is done to benefit NEVS rather than because RCI requires it IMO. Yes the renovations/upgrades benefits owners too, but it should because owner's pay 100% of it while NEVS pays nothing.

Did Cliff bring estimates and bids from several different contractors? Did Cliff ask owners to vote on the renovations, costs, amount of assessments, and whether they even want to turn the lounge into a gym/rec area? Did Cliff mention that joining RCI points (like joining Festiva points) requires owners to pay money to join? Did Cliff mention that a percentage of the sale prices for joining RCI points will become profit for NEVS , or was it just presented as a great thing he was doing for the owners?

The bottom line price based on a preliminary rough estimate will be about 6 or 7 hundred dollars per week owned. Cliff stated he only began to look at this ballpark figure very recently and is far from coming up with a final number

The annual meeting has been scheduled for a while. Why would he wait until shortly before the meeting to begin looking for bids? Why would he not show up at the annual meeting with plans and estimates to present to the owners? It will be $700 to $800 per week for now with more assessments coming and no transparency of contractors, materials, or labor expenses. If I became a new owner like Cliff is, I would have showed up with at least 3 bids showing what was going to be done, what it would cost, and why it needed to be done. Cliff just showed up with smooth talk and the trust me we have to do it for RCI/II and trust me that there is no kickbacks or brother in law contractors. Sounds like a big opportunity for someone to fleece the owners with no one having to account for where the money was spent, why it was spent, and with whom it was spent.

NEVMS has proactively hired an aggressive collection agency to go after the deadbeats of the past who owe the trust a ton of cash. The cash received from collections as well as the possibility of the resort selling off the tennis courts and the motel buildin lot in the corner could offset the special assessments and/or the reserve fund which is not in place yet (but will be).

Collection companies do get some more revenue, and they also foreclose on many weeks which Cliff and Festiva will probably end up owning. Was there a vote on selling the tennis courts and motel bldg? Were there appraisals on the value of the property for sale presented at the meeting? Will the property be sold by auction, a licensed real estate agent, or will Cliff just sell the property and assure everyone that he got top dollar for the sale?

Festiva (and apparently Cliff) always come in stating that the resort they acquired has been operating at a loss for some time with little or no reserves (see Church Street Inn, The Atrium,Southscape, etc). They then explain how they must raise MF's and assess to establish a reserve. Then every resort they buy needs drastice repairs to remain Gold Crown, Silver Crown etc. These IMO are scare tactics and a money maker for the new resort owner. No actual proof from RCI/II stating that what they are saying is fact is ever presented. These people never show up talking about saving the owners money and lowering MF's through frugal mgt tecniques. IMO when Festiva and/or Cliff assesses, Festiva and/or Cliff makes more money. IMO when Festiva and/or Cliff renovates, Festiva and/or Cliff makes more money. IMO when MF's are increased, Festiva and/or Cliff make more money.

Timesharemogul, I like you told everyone months ago what they would do (read post #6 from September, 2008), and as you said, unfortunatelly there were No Real Surprises for either of us!!!!!

 

[Sandy VDH]

They called me the other day. They started the call by asking me what I was doing with my week. Well if you were the resort you would already know that I deposited the week over a year ago. That is always a bad tipoff that they don't know s**t about what they are taking about. The resort would have know what I was doing with my week would they not.

They wanted to tell me what was going on at the resort. I said I wasn't interested and ended the call. I did not tell them that I have following here on what has been going on.

This is actually the first call I have had. Hopefully the last.

 

[Sou13]

How many owners attended the meeting?

We have our meeting next Saturday May 16th and those of us who are planning to attend are hoping for a good turnout. How many owners attended the meeting? Were any TUG members/guests there? Why have there been no further posts to these discussions?

 

[ChrisH]

Festiva being investigated by Atty's General

I was just at Sandcastle for one of my weeks and was given the Festiva pitch. After coming home googled Festiva Resorts (see complaints on google), found out that the Attorney's General in several states have either brought charges against and won, or are investigating their operation in several different states - Missouri, Carolina's etc. in regards to other timeshare sites.
Does anyone know how current sandcastle owners can get a list of the other owners in the resort? Might be nice to send out the info that is included here as a heads up - evidently they are trying to see every owner that checks in with their sales pitch. Don't know how many visit here.
Also - are they charging Festiva RENT for the use of the Offices - as this is part of our property and they should not be able to come in and use it without standard/current rate rental fees to Royal Coachman or the Dunes Trust? Their agents are staying in a unit or units at the resort - are they paying fees for that use? They cannot own all 52 weeks of unit 606. Maybe they move them around to whatever is vacant. Still there should be charges made and applied to the trust.
If there are foreclosures at the resort, how does Festiva get ownership???? I would think ownership would return to sandcastle trust?? Am I just to naive?
I saw a supposed balance sheet for sandcastle comparing 2007 -2008 and there doesn't look like we are in the RED moneywise. Of course it was just flashed in front of me, and removed - but from what I saw - it looked like income and expenses matched up pretty well.

UGHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

[Sou13]

Festiva takes over resort ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

Chris, have you read Festiva takes over resort ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)? The link is to the first page and there's a lot of info about the sleazy Festiva operation. You can find a lot more on your sister resort discussion, Southcape Resort ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page) (again, the link is to the first page) where we're trying to find out how to fight this "hostile"(?) takeover.

 

[Carolinian]

You people really need to form concerned owners groups and fight these sharks. Get some legal advise. Talk to your state Real Estate Commission or whoever regulates timeshare there. Festiva is bad news, especially their points scheme. Set up a board on the net to communicate with other owners. The net makes it a heck of a lot easier to organize than when concerned owners kicked First Flight developers out of control of a series of timeshare resorts on the NC Outer Banks some years ago.