Sandcastle P'town owners -Festiva

[Carolinian]

What absoulute crap! Developers at largely sold-out resorts like points because it allows them to churn the product for their own profit, reselling back to people what they already have. That is the ''demand'' for a points product. In this churning process, it is common to lie about weeks going away, RCI going away, etc. If points could stand on its own, they would not have to tell all the lies. The lies Festiva's brokers are telling are very similar to the lies that RCI Points conversion brokers have been caught telling.

A good example of the appeal of a points system on its own, without all the usual lies, is a resort I traded into in Germany which had been affiliated with RCI Points for quite a while but did not allow the brokers to work over their members. Presented just the facts without all the common points lies, only about 2% of the owners had opted to switch to points, and from what the manager told me, those were now mostly unhappy that they had.

A resort I used to own at in Australia also was in RCI Points at one time. After experiencing points, however, they were one of about 8 Australian resorts that had been in RCI Points but bailed out and went back to RCI Weeks, prohibiting any further conversions. Hooray for them!

Points is all about churning product. It is not about the customer. If Hagberg had gotten on with RCI Points, it would just be a different set of lying brokers trying to strongarm members into a different points system.

Hi Al and thanks for the question.

RCI made it crystal clear that they would never consider Sandcastle for RCI Points. Over the years, more and more owners are telling us that a points based system works very well for them and our first option was RCI Points. When they turned us down, we looked for another points based system to give our owners another option. There are many of them out there.

There is a lot on the internet about Festiva. I find it interesting that most of it is about several sales companies that sold for Festiva some time ago. Those outside sales companies did have problems and were fired by Festiva and no longer represent them. Festiva ultimately took responsibility for hiring them and paid the price.

With all of the talk about the former sales companies for Festiva, the reaction and performance of Festiva's points system is actually very positive. They have an excellent program and very nice resorts in areas where New Englanders traditionally prefer to travel. Their system made it a perfect fit with the travel patterns of the owners at Sandcastle. People may have problems with the former sales companies but I've heard no complaints at all about the actual working of their points system.

It's only another option and no one is being "forced" to join Festiva Adventure Club. For some people it works perfectly with the way they want to vacation and for other people it has no value at all. At Sandcastle, it makes no difference to us at all if people join or not. We affiliated with Festiva for the same reason we're working on affiliating the Sandcastle with Interval International. II is a great company and we want our owners to have all the best options possible.

Does Betty know that you're the better half? (I'm not sure she does!)

 

[Betty]

CLIFF

If you go back and read my post you will see I was talking about South Cape and not Sandcastle.

Betty's better half AL

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Then why are you on the Sandcastle board?

 

[theo]

Place your bets, folks...

We affiliated with Festiva for the same reason we're working on affiliating the Sandcastle with Interval International. II is a great company and we want our owners to have all the best options possible.

I'm certainly not a gambling man by nature, but in this particular instance I'd gladly be willing to bet that Interval International would have (and will have) absolutely nothing to do with Sandcastle --- particularly with the name / likes of Festiva in the mix. II wants or needs an affiliation like that in much the same way that a fish needs a hat rack...

 

[Betty]

Because someone else started it there, and I wanted to follow the thought,
although I did mention that it shouldn't be here in the first
place.....

 

[Sou13]

By the way, what is this capeguitarguy thing all about?

Go to http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=726120#post726120 and let's get back to the Southcape owners who heard what you had to say at the meeting. I didn't have wax in my ears, I was busy filling out the pink post-it notes pad, and most of what you reported to the owners had already been posted on TUG. I've saved all of your posts, including the original post about an owner whom you claim you advised how to get out of a conversion after the rescission period was up!

So it was RCI "points" and not "exchanges" that Southcape owners can't get. Have Southcape owners been requesting them?

As for Interval International, Condo I owners are still able to join. It's Condo II owners who presently can't get into I.I. without giving up their deeds to Festiva. But most of the owners who've been getting calls from Outfield Marketing own weeks in Condo I and most of the owners who have "converted" owned deeds to weeks in Condo I! If anyone doubts my word on this, I've copied them all down into an emailable attachment.* In fact I even emailed a copy to "capeguitarguy" so he knows it's true.

*That was as of March 18, 2009. There were over 150 then most of them Condo I owners. The records today show more than 250 and again most of them are Condo I owners.

 

[PClapham]

Re Interval International and Sandcastle under Festiva: We have a reservation at Church Street Inn (Chu) thru II and I believe it is managed by Festiva.
Anita

 

[e.bram]

IMHO. Southcape, Sandcastle are one and the same as far as this post is conderned. To a s;ightly lesser extent all Cape Cod TSs ane involved. But for for the Grace of God go us.

 

[ChrisH]

Then why is Outfield saying RCI is dropping weeks/dropping Sandcastle?

Hi Al and thanks for the question.

RCI made it crystal clear that they would never consider Sandcastle for RCI Points. Over the years, more and more owners are telling us that a points based system works very well for them and our first option was RCI Points. When they turned us down, we looked for another points based system to give our owners another option. There are many of them out there.

There is a lot on the internet about Festiva. I find it interesting that most of it is about several sales companies that sold for Festiva some time ago. Those outside sales companies did have problems and were fired by Festiva and no longer represent them. Festiva ultimately took responsibility for hiring them and paid the price.

With all of the talk about the former sales companies for Festiva, the reaction and performance of Festiva's points system is actually very positive. They have an excellent program and very nice resorts in areas where New Englanders traditionally prefer to travel. Their system made it a perfect fit with the travel patterns of the owners at Sandcastle. People may have problems with the former sales companies but I've heard no complaints at all about the actual working of their points system.

It's only another option and no one is being "forced" to join Festiva Adventure Club. For some people it works perfectly with the way they want to vacation and for other people it has no value at all. At Sandcastle, it makes no difference to us at all if people join or not. We affiliated with Festiva for the same reason we're working on affiliating the Sandcastle with Interval International. II is a great company and we want our owners to have all the best options possible.

Does Betty know that you're the better half? (I'm not sure she does!)

If RCI won't convert Sandcastle to Points - then why is the Outfield Marketing Rep at SANDCASTLE saying:
RCI is giving up weeks exchanges.
RCI is dropping the SANDCASTLE as it is a crappy resort.

and WHO are 'Over the years, more and more owners are telling us that a points based system works very well for them"
are any of them from the SANDCASTLE and are they complaining that the weeks system doesn't work? Or are they just points owners who say we like our system? Hardly a reason to change. Oh that's right - if they don't change you won't get the MONEY!

WELL - OVER the 25+ years of my ownership - the WEEKS system has worked well for me.
Anyone else out there who wants to keep their SANDCASTLE weeks system?
Anyone out there, who wants to change SANDCASTLE to points?
Lets take a vote!!!!

 

[ChrisH]

You live too far away - for them to ZAP you!!!

WE haven't received a letter about anything re our Sandcastle week.
Anita

You live in Cleveland, they won't send the rep out there. They're working locally in New England and trying to get everyone here to convert - so you'll be stuck with whatever is left.
This is so sh**y

 

[PClapham]

I would prefer to stay in weeks.
Anita

 

[Craig]

Have not been contacted

I own 3 weeks in the Coachman building and have not been contacted by anyone yet, and I live in MA. Maybe only Dune building owners are being contacted, as there are 2 separate HOAs??

I also am not interested in changing to points.

 

[225chs]

I am an owner at Dunes. Live in the Mid-Atlantic States area. Received a call almost immediately after the announcement about Festiva. Outfield called me four times. After the fourth I got a bit angry on the phone and that was the last I heard from them.
I plan to keep my week as a weeks exchange and watch the situation carefully

 

[ChrisH]

Phone # needed for contact!!!

I own 3 weeks in the Coachman building and have not been contacted by anyone yet, and I live in MA. Maybe only Dune building owners are being contacted, as there are 2 separate HOAs??

I also am not interested in changing to points.

If you've moved, changed your phone # etc. since you originally purchased at Sandcastle - they may not have current contact info to reach you. I don't think it makes a difference which building.
Chris

 

[Sou13]

I own 3 weeks in the Coachman building and have not been contacted by anyone yet, and I live in MA. Maybe only Dune building owners are being contacted, as there are 2 separate HOAs??

I also am not interested in changing to points.

Have you been looking at the deeds at the Barnstable County Registry? Here's the one for the acquisition by NEVS:

DOCUMENT ABSTRACT
Bk-Pg:23138-109 Recorded: 09-04-2008 @ 3:44:18pm Inst #: 46644 Chg: Y Vfy: N Sec: N


Pages in document: 76
Grp: 1
Type: Deed Doc$: 1,200,000.00
Desc: SEE INSTRUMENT

Town: MASHPEE Addr: 950 FALMOUTH RD
Town: PROVINCETOWN Addr: ROUTE 6A

Gtor: BARTH, VINCENT J (AS ID AS TR &O) (Gtor)

Gtor: WOODS, ROBERT P (AS ID AS TR &O) (Gtor)

Gtor: SOUTHCAPE TRUST (BY TR &O) (Gtor)

Gtor: ACQUISITIONS INC (&O) (Gtor)

Gtor: SOUTHCAPE RESORT & CLUB COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION INC (&O) (Gtor)

Gtor: JEC PROPERTIES INC (&O) (Gtor)

Gtor: SAND CASTLE NOMINEE TRUST (BY TR &O) (Gtor)

Gtor: ROYAL COACHMAN CONDOMINUM TRUST (BY TR &O) (Gtor)

Gtor: SAND CASTLE CONDOMINIUM TRUST (BY TR &O) (Gtor)

Gtee: NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)


Return addr: DUNNING KIRRANE MCNICHOLS & GARNER LLP
REGISTRY BOX # 9
P. O. BOX 560
MASHPEE, MA 02649


Recording Fee: 100.00 State excise: 6,840.00 Surcharge: 25.00

 

[strummer]

What cancellation policy? What ethics?

I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that I converted to points. Then I requested cancellation within the legal time period and my card was charged the full amount of the sale a day after I canceled.

We had an appointment with Outfield Marketing at home earlier in the year, but the rep canceled due to car trouble, said he'd reschedule and we heard nothing more until we were at the Sandcastle for our week.

It appears that NEVMS management is participating in this thread, so I will state a few observations regarding the so-called "professional sales" team.

During our presentation:

I stated that the rep canceled our home appointment and my complaint was quickly ignored and dismissed.

I said I had been searching for the "new" Sandcastle website promised by Mr. Hagberg's letter of last year. I was told it's "being worked on". It's June. A 12-year-old can create a website in half a day! Isn't the Internet an effective way of promoting a business and how much more money could the Sandcastle have earned if this had been done as promised.

We were repeatedly told by the rep that he was "not on commission". At the end I said we'd think it over. He said that he only got paid to talk to us once and the decision (to spend over $3000) had to be made "now". He could not ever speak to us after that moment. This was so unbelievable that I was convinced not to do it. As we walked out, the other rep said we could have until morning.

Usually intelligent in these situations, for some reason I read the shoddy handouts and became concerned that our deeded week was wrong and that, if we didn't want to lose our timeshare we would have to comply. At least I am intelligent enough to know that there is a cancellation period following the sale.

We were shown every single piece of paper after signing, except the cancellation form, which was slipped into the stack of papers. We were given a fancy portfolio and catalogs, etc. and immediately dismissed.

After the presentation:
We reviewed the paperwork, found the cancellation notice and, I agree with the negative statements related to this matter. We sent the cancellation paperwork via Express Mail with delivery confirmed more than 12 hours before the deadline, in appropriate form. It was supposed to be sent to NEVS only. Suspecting it would be ignored, I also sent it to the sales office at the Sandcastle with a similar delivery time. Two days after I canceled, the charge appeared on my credit card and has been officially disputed.

I was never offered minutes of any meeting, nor do I have an owner's list. I can only advise anyone not to even make an appointment with these people because you will be subjected to high pressure sales tactics and extremely questionable business ethics.

My conclusions: This shows the unprofessionalism of all involved in the "new" Sandcastle's future. It was no surprise to me that the cancellation was ignored and now we have to go through the hassle of pursuing this refund. Even if it's quick, the charge was illegal. I have a feeling that it's going to take some time.

I will be formally requesting the meeting minutes and the owners' list. Since I am a 4 hour drive from the Sandcastle, I will expect to not have to appear in person. I am beginning to document all expenses, beginning with the Express Mail and including any unreasonable travel for documents that I'm entitled to, so I can recover them in future legal action.

In case you don't know, the card company (I expect this to be typical) will stop all your responsibility for the charge for the time being and welcomes and requests documentation of the delivery and cancellation, etc.)

I will update and add to this as time passes.

Glad I found this site. Thanks for all your input.

 

[ecwinch]

File a complaint with the Mass AG

Strummer,

I think you should file a complaint with the Mass AG. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

They have a fillable form on their website. See the info in my post on the Southcape thread.

Mass AG Complaint post

 

[ChrisH]

I agree that the best route to file a complaint is with the MASS AG. This is clearly a violation of both Section 93A Consumer Protection and MGL Section 183B - Timeshare laws.

We NEED more people from Sandcastle (and Southcape) to go to the Marketing Presentation and then file complaints.

MGL 93A deals with fraud, deceit, misrepresentation, duress etc.
MGL 183B deals with timeshare sales/laws.

And I keep finding MORE laws they broke the more I read it.
Chapter 183B: Section 41. Providing prospective purchaser with public offering statement and resale disclosures; cancellation of contract; damages

Section 41. (a) A person required to deliver a public offering statement pursuant to subsection (c) of section thirty-seven shall, before transfer of a time-share and no later than the date of a contract of sale, provide a prospective purchaser with (i) a copy of the public offering statement and all amendments, exhibits and supplements thereto, and (ii) the disclosures required in the case of resales pursuant to subsection (a) of section forty-two. Unless the purchaser has received said materials more than three business days before the date of execution of any contract of sale or the transfer of a time-share, the contract or transfer shall be voidable by him until he has received said materials and for three business days thereafter.
(b) If a purchaser elects to cancel a contract pursuant to subsection (a), he may do so by hand-delivering written notice thereof to the seller or to his agent for service of process, by mailing notice thereof to the seller or to his agent for service of process by registered mail, return receipt requested, by telegram or by courier service with guaranteed next day delivery. Notice shall be deemed given on the date of postmark or if by telegram or courier service on the date when transmitted from the place of origin. Cancellation shall be without penalty, and all payments made by the purchaser before cancellation shall be refunded immediately if the purchaser’s deposit check shall not have been deposited in the seller’s bank account or if it has been so deposited within seven days after receipt of the notice of cancellation, but in no event prior to the first business day following the date on which the amount of the deposit is finally and unconditionally credited to the seller’s account or if such deposit was made by credit card, such refund shall be made by immediate issuance of a credit to the purchaser’s credit card account.

 

[ecwinch]

I just want to make the point that going to the presentation, with the knowledge of what is going to happen, might taint your complaint.

My advice was for those who have already been subjected to the practice.

 

[ChrisH]

I totally agree with you except from the replies on this board it doesn't appear that many people have attended a presentation. Several of the posts are from people that didn't meet with Outfield and are complaining about the repeated phone calls.
It appears that only a few have actually gone to Outfields scam. And now that more owners will be at Sandcastle as red season is upon us - they will snag more each week.

 

[Sou13]

Thank you for sharing, strummer!

Usually intelligent in these situations, for some reason . . . At least I am intelligent enough to know that there is a cancellation period following the sale.

I had the same experience with Greg Hughes. In my case, it was VISA to the rescue, although "capeguitarguy" Cliff Hagberg tried to take the credit.

 

[Sou13]

Any updates?

I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that I converted to points. Then I requested cancellation within the legal time period and my card was charged the full amount of the sale a day after I canceled.

We had an appointment with Outfield Marketing at home earlier in the year, but the rep canceled due to car trouble, said he'd reschedule and we heard nothing more until we were at the Sandcastle for our week.

It appears that NEVMS management is participating in this thread, so I will state a few observations regarding the so-called "professional sales" team.

During our presentation:

I stated that the rep canceled our home appointment and my complaint was quickly ignored and dismissed.

I said I had been searching for the "new" Sandcastle website promised by Mr. Hagberg's letter of last year. I was told it's "being worked on". It's June. A 12-year-old can create a website in half a day! Isn't the Internet an effective way of promoting a business and how much more money could the Sandcastle have earned if this had been done as promised.

We were repeatedly told by the rep that he was "not on commission". At the end I said we'd think it over. He said that he only got paid to talk to us once and the decision (to spend over $3000) had to be made "now". He could not ever speak to us after that moment. This was so unbelievable that I was convinced not to do it. As we walked out, the other rep said we could have until morning.

Usually intelligent in these situations, for some reason I read the shoddy handouts and became concerned that our deeded week was wrong and that, if we didn't want to lose our timeshare we would have to comply. At least I am intelligent enough to know that there is a cancellation period following the sale.

We were shown every single piece of paper after signing, except the cancellation form, which was slipped into the stack of papers. We were given a fancy portfolio and catalogs, etc. and immediately dismissed.

After the presentation:
We reviewed the paperwork, found the cancellation notice and, I agree with the negative statements related to this matter. We sent the cancellation paperwork via Express Mail with delivery confirmed more than 12 hours before the deadline, in appropriate form. It was supposed to be sent to NEVS only. Suspecting it would be ignored, I also sent it to the sales office at the Sandcastle with a similar delivery time. Two days after I canceled, the charge appeared on my credit card and has been officially disputed.

I was never offered minutes of any meeting, nor do I have an owner's list. I can only advise anyone not to even make an appointment with these people because you will be subjected to high pressure sales tactics and extremely questionable business ethics.

My conclusions: This shows the unprofessionalism of all involved in the "new" Sandcastle's future. It was no surprise to me that the cancellation was ignored and now we have to go through the hassle of pursuing this refund. Even if it's quick, the charge was illegal. I have a feeling that it's going to take some time.

I will be formally requesting the meeting minutes and the owners' list. Since I am a 4 hour drive from the Sandcastle, I will expect to not have to appear in person. I am beginning to document all expenses, beginning with the Express Mail and including any unreasonable travel for documents that I'm entitled to, so I can recover them in future legal action.

In case you don't know, the card company (I expect this to be typical) will stop all your responsibility for the charge for the time being and welcomes and requests documentation of the delivery and cancellation, etc.)

I will update and add to this as time passes.

Glad I found this site. Thanks for all your input.

Any updates? Keep us posted!

 

[Sou13]

Meeting Minutes?

Have Sandcastle owners received their owners' meeting reports? We got ours (or can expect to be getting ours) this week. They weren't meeting minutes, however, they were a report of what the new trustees wanted us to believe happened and was discussed at the meeting, author unknown.

 

[Rambler65]

Where's Festiva?

I am at Sandcastle this week, and have not seen or heard anything about Festiva, other than a white board that says welcome Festiva owners in the main lobby. If invited, I plan to attend a meeting, but so far not a word from the scum balls. My friend that was here earlier this year said Festiva was set up at a table when he arrived, but no such display this week.

There is a display set up in the lobby showing the work that was peformed on the pools, tennis court, and basketball court last year before the sale of Sandcastle took place. Wonder if the new ownership is trying to get us to beleive they did the work. Just more scumball tactics.

 

[strummer]

Any updates? Keep us posted!

In recent days I was contacted by Outfield Marketing to tell me that a "mistake had been made in the calculation of points" and they wanted me to call and "explain" the situation to me. I didn't call back, since I wanted to give Cliff Hagberg (whoever he is) and Greg Hughes (who doesn't respond to mail or answer his email) a chance to acknowledge my cancellation and credit my account.
I filed a grievance with the Mass. AG in the meantime.

Then decided to call Outfield Marketing in Texas. When the woman told me about the "mistake" I interrupted and said that I had canceled the order and should be credited with a refund. She said, "sure, I'll put through the credit to your account today." No argument, no objection, in fact she was very pleasant. I received the credit a couple of days later, much to my disbelief and pleasant surprise.

I told her that I cancelled and no one responded. She said the "wrong address" was on the cancellation paperwork and that was probably why.

I then received a somewhat contradictory letter from my credit card company who said that the vendor did not credit me with certain "non refundable fees" related to the sale. They said I could challenge the vendor directly... which I will do if necessary... however so far the full refund appears on my statement and I don't remember seeing any "nonrefundable" fees either in writing or mentioned in my presentation, but that isn't surprising.

The other significant info is that whoever New England Vacation Sales Management is (supposedly Cliff Hagberg), the address on Haws Avenue in Hyannis exists, though it is correctly spelled Hawes. Mail is delivered there, but as I found out nothing happens. And nowhere have I seen a phone number for his business, not from my late 2008 "newsletter" or anywhere else. These guys are masters at hiding, getting your money, then hiding again forever. If Mr. Hagberg is such a successful businessman, why doesn't he or the Sandcastle have a web site yet, and how do you service your customers without a valid address or phone?

At this stage I advise you to consider what is my new personal policy. Don't go near anyone who represents a business called New England Vacation Sales Management or Outfield Marketing.

Strummer