San Mateo County, CA Traffic Court

[Icarus]

I haven't gotten a ticket in at least 8 - 9 years. I got pulled over the other night by East Palo Alto cops in a tan minivan and they cited me for two minor traffic infractions. I have no defense for one of them, but I think I can mount a good defense for the second one. This was after they cut me off when making a left turn from Middlefield onto Willow Rd in Menlo Park.

Reading up, it looks like I can request it be done in writing, rather than appear in court, which will obviously be difficult for me.

Does anybody know if you can take traffic school if you have an out of state license? Yes, I know they have internet traffic school now, but I'm not sure if out-of-state drivers are even eligible for traffic school. Can it be done at the Judges discretion if it's not permitted?

I'm also thinking I might just get a lawyer and let him handle it since I'm out of state. Does anybody know of a lawyer in San Mateo county that does a lot of traffic cases? There's lots of ads, but I have no idea how I would find one.

If I was able to do it in person, I would plead not guilty, post the bail, wait for the court date and try to negotiate the ticket down to one offense eligible for traffic school with the prosecuter. Failing that, I would just argue my case on the second infraction in front of the kangaroo court and take my chances. Sometimes the officers won't even show up and your case gets dismissed.

-David

 

[Luanne]

Failing that, I would just argue my case on the second infraction in front of the kangaroo court and take my chances. Sometimes the officers won't even show up and your case gets dismissed.

Yeah, I'd heard that too. So, when I got a ticket in San Mateo County (quite a number of years ago) I decided to go to court. It was an experience. The judge was hysterical. Or maybe it was just the way he dealt with some of the people who showed up. Like the one guy who didn't have a job, wasn't attending school, but couldn't find the time to make his court appearance. Or the woman who couldn't understand why the judge was making such a big deal about how she was driving without a license. I mean, she had to get where she was going right? Anyway, the officer who gave me the ticket, not only showed up in uniform with shoes shined, but his young, pregnant wife was proudly with him. I knew I was doomed. Sure enough, the ticket stood and I ended up going to traffic school.

 

[Icarus]

I understand, and I wouldn't depend on the officer not showing up. But anything is possible.

One time I got pulled over at the New Jersey end of the Lincoln tunnel and I had to wait there until the cop from the other end of the tunnel got somebody to relieve him and came through to give me two tickets. Both tickets were a sham, and I had evidence (photos, etc) to prove it, so I lost a days work (I was a contract employee at the time, so I lost a days pay) and the officer failed to show up in court and the case was dismissed, but not before the "adjudicator" in Port Authority kangaroo traffic court tried to do everything she could to try to find that officer. I don't know why he didn't show up. Possibly because he knew he was wrong. Or maybe he just didn't show up because he didn't feel like it.

I've also been successful at making deals .. pleading guilty to a lessor offense with less points, etc, for example a speeding ticket can often be reduced by a few MPH to a lessor speeding offense. But I have no idea how do that remotely. My ticket wasn't for speeding this time around. But if you live in California long enough, you're going to get taxed with traffic tickets.

In this case, I'm really hoping I can get off the one infraction and take traffic school for the other one.

-David

 

[LisaH]

Taking traffic school is easy, but you have to appear in person for the final test. I'm not sure how you are going to do that. Maybe a business trip can be arranged...

 

[Blues]

When I did the internet traffic school thing about 5-6 years ago, it was all by 'net, including the final. They mailed me a certificate, which I mailed the court. Never had to show up for anything. This was Santa Cruz county CA.

 

[ZCar]

David,
Should you be in CA soon, stop by a DMV office and purchase the 2005 Vehicle Code Book. (2007 probably isn't out yet). It's $6.00 and BIG.

The "Tan" van may be of interest as the Vehicle code, Chapter 3, Article 1, "Illegal Evidence" could apply.

It's code 40800 "Vehicle and Uniform Used by Officers" and applies to a full distinctive uniform AND the vehicle must be painted a distinctive color specified by the commissioner.
Black & White is common. Tan is not. There was a case in Newport Beach, CA a few years ago where a ticket caused the police to repaint their vehicles. If I recall, it was from blue/white to black/white.

There's probably a code no. for violations by out-of-state drivers, but haven't run across it.

 

[LisaH]

When I did the internet traffic school thing about 5-6 years ago, it was all by 'net, including the final. They mailed me a certificate, which I mailed the court. Never had to show up for anything. This was Santa Cruz county CA.

Hmm, this is certainly different in Santa Clara County. I know because I had to deal with it recently.

 

[Icarus]

It was an unmarked car.

Santa Clara county has always been "different", with traffic school. They (the judiciary) contract with one provider, but I'm told you can do internet traffic school there too now.

 

[Icarus]

Update:

Apparently you can request something called "Trial by Written Declaration" for any traffic infraction in California. You have to fill out a form and return it with the bail amount before the due date on the ticket. You simply write up your description of the events (which can be as simple as "I'm not guilty") along with any other evidence you might have, and the officer is notified to submit his written declaration within 30 days and a judge decides the outcome based on the written declarations. You can still request a trial within another 20 days after you're notified of the decision if you're not satisfied with the outcome of the trial by written declaration.

So, I sent in my forms and bail payment, which are due next week, and we'll see what happens.

Because there were two infractions on the ticket, I wasn't eligible for traffic school. Apparently, the judge can still offer it as a resolution though, especially if I'm found not guilty on one of the infractions.

-David

 

[camachinist]

Would it be smart, if accosted by an unmarked vehicle in such a manner, to call 911 and request officer assistance? I say that because kidnappings and carjackings have often started in such a manner. I can't imagine things getting any worse if a black and white showed up.

So, what was the infraction you're sure you're guilty of?

Pat

 

[Wonka]

Unmarked police cars for traffic tickets

This must be a new thing in law enforcement. I someone pulled over here in Florida in Bradenton, Florida by an unmarked, tan SUV. I would think a marked vehicle could find all the people to ticket necessary anywhere, and might actually be a deterrent. I know I slow down when I see a marked vehicle (at least for a while).

 

[UWSurfer]

Years ago Pasadena had a speeding radar camera setup in the back of a mini-van and were issuing tickets like no body's businesses UNTIL someone went to court over the fact it was tan and not marked for traffic enforcement. Pasadena had to dismiss something like 2,000 tickets and repaint the vehicle as well as post signs on the road to alert drivers that they were entering a radar enforced speed zone.

 

[Kal]

Decades ago I got pulled over and the cop walked back took my car keys and took off down the road. I just sat there for maybe 20 minutes until he returned.

I went to court and made an extensive argument to defend the speeding ticket. Seems I was clocked by an airplane. My arguement focused on the "doppler effect". The judge just said nobody in the court knows what the h*** I'm talking about and dismissed the case.

I know, it's all BS, but it worked.

 

[John Cummings]

"But if you live in California long enough, you're going to get taxed with traffic tickets."

How long is long enough? I have lived in Southern and Northern California for 35 years and have never had a ticket. I have come close, like when I was driving 110 mph east of Barstow on I-40 and passed 2 CHP cars parked by the side of the freeway. It wasn't my intention to drive that fast. I was talking to my wife and didn't realize how fast I was going. I usually drive that stretch at 85 mph. In any event the CHP left me alone and I slowed down when I realized how fast I was driving.


I also question the Tan vehicle. To the best of my knowledge it is illegal in California to use unmarked vehicles for traffic control.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

"But if you live in California long enough, you're going to get taxed with traffic tickets."

How long is long enough? I have lived in Southern and Northern California for 35 years and have never had a ticket. I have come close, like when I was driving 110 mph east of Barstow on I-40 and passed 2 CHP cars parked by the side of the freeway. It wasn't my intention to drive that fast. I was talking to my wife and didn't realize how fast I was going. I usually drive that stretch at 85 mph. In any event the CHP left me alone and I slowed down when I realized how fast I was driving.


I also question the Tan vehicle. To the best of my knowledge it is illegal in California to use unmarked vehicles for traffic control.

I used to drive a Diamante that had a "natural" cruising speed of about 95 mph. Many times traveling I-80 to Sacramento or down the I-5 south of Tracy, I would glance down at the speedometer and be surprised at how fast I was going.

With the help of a couple of speeding tickets I finally learned to start using the cruise control regularly.

 

[Icarus]

I also question the Tan vehicle. To the best of my knowledge it is illegal in California to use unmarked vehicles for traffic control.

I'm not sure what you mean by "I also question". Do you mean question the legality of the ticket because it was an unmarked vehicle?

It wasn't a traffic control vehicle, and the ticket wasn't issued by CHP. I read the vehicle code section that Zcar mentioned (it's all online) and that section of the code seems to apply to vehicles used primarily for traffic control.

And if you've managed to avoid tickets for 35 years in the republic of California and have driven at 110mph and regularly driven that stretch at 85mph (I'm guessing the speed limit is 70 there?), you've been very lucky John. My hat's off to you.

-David

 

[isisdave]

What we mean about the tan vehicle is that police (CHP or any other) can't use unmarked cars for traffic patrol. If you make an illegal turn in front of an unmarked police car that's on some other duty, and cause them to drop their donuts on the floor, they can give you a ticket. But a vehicle being used for traffic enforcement has to be marked in the way established for the department.

Now, CHP has some plain white cars with only the seal on the door, and the lights hidden behid the grille and along the inside top of the windshield. These used to be only for truck enforcement on freeways, but I see more of them now and they're apparently considered "marked in a way established for the department", and used in traffic patrol.

But if you're talking about a plain tan vehicle with no markings, you may have a chance to beat it. Also, was the officer uniformed?

But of course you'd have to have a lawyer if you're not there yourself. That's what you asked for, and none of us have recommended one, have we?

 

[Icarus]

"What we mean"?

The police that pulled me over were not on traffic patrol. It was not a traffic patrol vehicle.

The jackets the officers wore were clearly marked East Palo Alto PD.

But I appreciate the attempt at helping me. If you read back to the update, I'm doing "trial by written declaration", so no attorney is needed for that. If I don't like the outcome of that, I have 20 days to request a trial, and I either need to be there for that, or hire an attorney. We're not there yet, so I guess I'll consider that if I need to when I get the results from the "trial by written declaration".

It wasn't a traffic control vehicle, and the ticket wasn't issued by CHP. I read the vehicle code section that Zcar mentioned (it's all online) and that section of the code seems to apply to vehicles used primarily for traffic control.

Here's the first part of section 40800, which I assume is what Zcar was referring to:

40800. Every traffic officer on duty for the exclusive or main
purpose of enforcing the provisions of Division 10 or 11 of this code
shall wear a full distinctive uniform, and if the officer while so
on duty uses a motor vehicle, it must be painted a distinctive color
specified by the commissioner.

Division 10 is about accident reports. Division 11 of the code is about "rules of the road".

Here's the link to the California Motor Vehicle Code:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vctoc.htm

Trial by Written Declaration is section 40902.

I do appreciate all the suggestions, and I've researched them.

-David

 

[Fern Modena]

Thanks for posting about Trial by Written Declaration. I don't live in CA anymore, but do drive there on occasion, so it is good to know.

Fern

 

[Icarus]

I received the paperwork and response on my trial by written declaration today.

I was found guilty on the first offense and not guilty on the second offense.

The first offense was "following too closely". The second one was "unsafe start".

I have 20 days to request a trial. I'm not going to request a trial, but I think I will write back to the court and ask if I can attend traffic school on the first offense, and retain the not guilty decision on the second offense.

According to the paperwork, I will receive a refund on the bail amount for the 2nd offense within 60 days.

-David

 

[LisaH]

Congratulations. I also got a ticket at about the same time as you did in Santa Clara County. Even though it's tempting to contest it, I chose to do traffic school instead. You just reminded me to send in the paper and a check tomorrow