Salt Lake City Roadshow Presentation - 9/15/2024

[StevenTing]

DW reluctantly joined me for a presentation. The offer was $300 or 50,000 Bonvoy points. My selling point to DW is that we could skip the Potato fundraiser for my kids marching band and attend the presentation instead. Much easier than trying to sell 50 pound bags of potatoes.

Presentation was typical with nothing out of the ordinary. First 20 minutes was spent getting to know us and keying in on what is important to us. In short, I mentioned "value" and so that is what the sales person latched on to throughout the afternoon. 2 hour commitment. Group presentation for about 40 minutes and then we split off with our sales reps for further discussion. Is there a time that I would consider adding more to my ownership? Absolutely. However, timing is not right.

The pitch was to purchase 4,000 points so that I can enroll my 2 Maui weeks. She was saying that I was "Double Chairman" but that MVC wasn't recognizing my status because my weeks are external. By purchasing 4,000 points, my weeks would be enrolled and then I'd have access to over 30,000 points. That's true but the capital outlay did not justify the cost.

As noted, current rate is $17.64 per point.
4000 x $17.64 = $70,560.

This was the number she was operating from. Saying that for only $70K more, or about $3.50 per point, I can add 20,000 more points to my ownership. Since we use our Maui weeks, while the statement is true, it's not something we will realize because of our usage. We go in the expected circles, etc and then the finance/closer comes in.

$70,560 less a 20% Discount brings the price down to $56,448. This is what I was expecting based on prior purchases. In addition, rather than the anticipated 8,000 Plus Points, it was 10,000 Plus Points. And because of the 40th Anniversary of MVC, they would also include 40,000 Bonvoy points. Not a bad deal but there wasn't a compelling reason for me to make the outlay. They tried to play off the fear of "this may not be offered again" and I'm okay with that.

They asked me if there was no cost, if I would enroll my weeks. Of course I said yes. So they said, so we're somewhere between $0 and $56,448. At what price would you take action? I told them my ideal scenario. I pay MVC $20,000 for the ability to enroll my weeks without having to purchase any points. That's it. Pure profit for MVC without having to do anything else. That's where my price point is. That's like selling 1100 points without having to provide any points. I also put it this way, we do a contract where I buy the 4,000 points at the offered price. Once we close and you enroll my weeks, MVC buys back the 4,000 points for $9.20 a point.

But as you guessed, we didn't arrive at a deal.

 

[dioxide45]

Do they pitch an Encore Package at the end of these roadshow presentations?

 

[Dean]

DW reluctantly joined me for a presentation. The offer was $300 or 50,000 Bonvoy points. My selling point to DW is that we could skip the Potato fundraiser for my kids marching band and attend the presentation instead. Much easier than trying to sell 50 pound bags of potatoes.

Presentation was typical with nothing out of the ordinary. First 20 minutes was spent getting to know us and keying in on what is important to us. In short, I mentioned "value" and so that is what the sales person latched on to throughout the afternoon. 2 hour commitment. Group presentation for about 40 minutes and then we split off with our sales reps for further discussion. Is there a time that I would consider adding more to my ownership? Absolutely. However, timing is not right.

The pitch was to purchase 4,000 points so that I can enroll my 2 Maui weeks. She was saying that I was "Double Chairman" but that MVC wasn't recognizing my status because my weeks are external. By purchasing 4,000 points, my weeks would be enrolled and then I'd have access to over 30,000 points. That's true but the capital outlay did not justify the cost.

As noted, current rate is $17.64 per point.
4000 x $17.64 = $70,560.

This was the number she was operating from. Saying that for only $70K more, or about $3.50 per point, I can add 20,000 more points to my ownership. Since we use our Maui weeks, while the statement is true, it's not something we will realize because of our usage. We go in the expected circles, etc and then the finance/closer comes in.

$70,560 less a 20% Discount brings the price down to $56,448. This is what I was expecting based on prior purchases. In addition, rather than the anticipated 8,000 Plus Points, it was 10,000 Plus Points. And because of the 40th Anniversary of MVC, they would also include 40,000 Bonvoy points. Not a bad deal but there wasn't a compelling reason for me to make the outlay. They tried to play off the fear of "this may not be offered again" and I'm okay with that.

They asked me if there was no cost, if I would enroll my weeks. Of course I said yes. So they said, so we're somewhere between $0 and $56,448. At what price would you take action? I told them my ideal scenario. I pay MVC $20,000 for the ability to enroll my weeks without having to purchase any points. That's it. Pure profit for MVC without having to do anything else. That's where my price point is. That's like selling 1100 points without having to provide any points. I also put it this way, we do a contract where I buy the 4,000 points at the offered price. Once we close and you enroll my weeks, MVC buys back the 4,000 points for $9.20 a point.

But as you guessed, we didn't arrive at a deal.

The last I saw you could get them enrolled for not much over the #20K, somewhere around $25-27K with more points and not unreasonable fees (2 Gold weeks in Spain). Of course that's not an insignificant amount but if you were willing to shell out $20K for nothing but enrollment, this is much better IMO. You could always rent out the points and come out ahead if you wouldn't use them otherwise. I've got 3.5 weeks I'd like to enroll if the price were reasonable in my eyes but really only 1.5 weeks would give me true benefit. For me personally I'd pay a few thousand $$$ just to enroll them but probably not more than that. The other 2 weeks I'll only use or rent out so other than simplicity, there isn't much benefit there. Those 1.5 weeks I'll mostly or only exchange so my benefit to enroll would be 3 L/O fees and 6 exchange fees every 2 years. I'd want to recoup my outlay to enroll over no more than about 5-7 years.

 

[StevenTing]

Do they pitch an Encore Package at the end of these roadshow presentations?

Actually, they did offer me an encore package. But those never seem to workout for me for my family and age group. So I passed on that as well.

 

[Mroze]

The Good
The best I managed to do was enroll 6 Kierland resale weeks with Vistana for $10K for the first week followed by an additional $5K for each of the additional weeks.
Enrolled 6 x 2BR-WKV-Platinum+ weeks [148.1K-SO x 6 = 888,600-SO] for ~$35K.
These 6 x WKV accrue 24,300-Abound [4050-DCP x 6].
Since the MF for WKV is ~$2K, it works out to ~$0.50¢/DCP which is slightly better than DCP-MF for Points.

The Bad
Ended up with $35K worth of Aventuras-Flex which has $0 resale value and high Maintenance-Fees.
Although AV-Flex MF is lower than Sheraton-Flex as well as Westin-Flex, it's still higher than MF for most deeded weeks.

The Middle
In 2022, we had the option [presentation in Maui] to give back all the AV-Flex [+ 3 x WLR-EOY-2BR-P+] in exchange [received $95K-Credit] for Nanea-Points [Resort-View 257.7K = 10905-ABOUND]. Even though it entailed spending more money, it felt better than owning Flex.

If you can enroll Marriott weeks with a Vistana presentation, that could be a better route.

 

[vail]

DW reluctantly joined me for a presentation. The offer was $300 or 50,000 Bonvoy points. My selling point to DW is that we could skip the Potato fundraiser for my kids marching band and attend the presentation instead. Much easier than trying to sell 50 pound bags of potatoes.

Presentation was typical with nothing out of the ordinary. First 20 minutes was spent getting to know us and keying in on what is important to us. In short, I mentioned "value" and so that is what the sales person latched on to throughout the afternoon. 2 hour commitment. Group presentation for about 40 minutes and then we split off with our sales reps for further discussion. Is there a time that I would consider adding more to my ownership? Absolutely. However, timing is not right.

The pitch was to purchase 4,000 points so that I can enroll my 2 Maui weeks. She was saying that I was "Double Chairman" but that MVC wasn't recognizing my status because my weeks are external. By purchasing 4,000 points, my weeks would be enrolled and then I'd have access to over 30,000 points. That's true but the capital outlay did not justify the cost.

As noted, current rate is $17.64 per point.
4000 x $17.64 = $70,560.

This was the number she was operating from. Saying that for only $70K more, or about $3.50 per point, I can add 20,000 more points to my ownership. Since we use our Maui weeks, while the statement is true, it's not something we will realize because of our usage. We go in the expected circles, etc and then the finance/closer comes in.

$70,560 less a 20% Discount brings the price down to $56,448. This is what I was expecting based on prior purchases. In addition, rather than the anticipated 8,000 Plus Points, it was 10,000 Plus Points. And because of the 40th Anniversary of MVC, they would also include 40,000 Bonvoy points. Not a bad deal but there wasn't a compelling reason for me to make the outlay. They tried to play off the fear of "this may not be offered again" and I'm okay with that.

They asked me if there was no cost, if I would enroll my weeks. Of course I said yes. So they said, so we're somewhere between $0 and $56,448. At what price would you take action? I told them my ideal scenario. I pay MVC $20,000 for the ability to enroll my weeks without having to purchase any points. That's it. Pure profit for MVC without having to do anything else. That's where my price point is. That's like selling 1100 points without having to provide any points. I also put it this way, we do a contract where I buy the 4,000 points at the offered price. Once we close and you enroll my weeks, MVC buys back the 4,000 points for $9.20 a point.

But as you guessed, we didn't arrive at a deal.

Can you please explain to me, or someone explain, why it would be worth 10k to enroll a week that you already own?
Is it easier to use points to book a week rather trade it, if you are not using your home week?
Because I have not found it so easy to book points unless I do it at 12 months, or they are undesirable nights.

I have also found it takes more points than my week is worth to book other locations.
Thanks.

 

[StevenTing]

Can you please explain to me, or someone explain, why it would be worth 10k to enroll a week that you already own?
Is it easier to use points to book a week rather trade it, if you are not using your home week?
Because I have not found it so easy to book points unless I do it at 12 months, or they are undesirable nights.

I have also found it takes more points than my week is worth to book other locations.
Thanks.

Everyone has their reasons. For me, it would be for flexibility. My weeks are fixed unit, fixed week. They are not floating weeks. I could rent the weeks out themselves but the market doesn’t have as many people that are willing to spend $10,000 to $12,000 to rent a week. By being able to convert to points it will be easier to rent out my points. Each week could convert to 10,225 points.

If I rented it out at 2025 Full MF rates, that would bring in about $8800 in total. It won’t be as much as the week but it will open up my pool of renters. Plus, I can then bank those points a head a year if I need to. Or I could exchange future weeks and borrow the points.

So what I’m paying for is flexibility. I would be willing to pay $10k to have the option to exchange my week for points each year.

 

[DRH90277]

Can you please explain to me, or someone explain, why it would be worth 10k to enroll a week that you already own?
Is it easier to use points to book a week rather trade it, if you are not using your home week?
Because I have not found it so easy to book points unless I do it at 12 months, or they are undesirable nights.

I have also found it takes more points than my week is worth to book other locations.
Thanks.

I look at our ownership a bit differently now and spend more effort looking at the other ways to get the weeks we want. I've noted that rental is usually the most cost effective, the most flexible, and the easiest route to the reservations I want. Of course, I only figured this out now - long after we spent a small fortune buying weeks and points.

 

[dioxide45]

We were told today that if we owned some amount of trust points (not buy, but already owned) we could do an equity trade in of our weeks without having to purchase anything. Just a straight trade in. Not sure I believe it. I suspect one would need to buy some amount of points to true to an even Beneficial Interest amount.

 

[Red elephant]

We were told today that if we owned some amount of trust points (not buy, but already owned) we could do an equity trade in of our weeks without having to purchase anything. Just a straight trade in. Not sure I believe it. I suspect one would need to buy some amount of points to true to an even Beneficial Interest amount.

Why would you need to own trust points to do an equity trade in of weeks? I am not understanding.

 

[dioxide45]

Why would you need to own trust points to do an equity trade in of weeks? I am not understanding.

It was apparently just a policy requirement in order to do the equity trade in. You either need to be buying additional trust points at the time or already own trust points.

 

[winger]

We were told today that if we owned some amount of trust points (not buy, but already owned) we could do an equity trade in of our weeks without having to purchase anything. Just a straight trade in. Not sure I believe it. I suspect one would need to buy some amount of points to true to an even Beneficial Interest amount.

I don't follow. Equity trade in of your weeks, what are you trading in for, Abound Club Points ? If yes, why would you do this when I suspect annual MF's are more for the Club Points .

 

[Dean]

It was apparently just a policy requirement in order to do the equity trade in. You either need to be buying additional trust points at the time or already own trust points.

Jeremy, was there a discussion about what you'd be trading for? I've seen trade in offers before and they always included a minimum spend above the trade in amount.

 

[Fasttr]

Jeremy, was there a discussion about what you'd be trading for? I've seen trade in offers before and they always included a minimum spend above the trade in amount.

At MGO this week, they offered an equity trade in of my MGO gold week (3850) points if I purchased 2000 additional points. I laughed and said, so I currently have access to my enrolled 3850 points at 49 cents a point, and you are offering me the ability to have those same points at 80 cents a point.

 

[Dean]

At MGO this week, they offered an equity trade in of my MGO gold week (3850) points if I purchased 2000 additional points. I laughed and said, so I currently have access to my enrolled 3850 points at 49 cents a point, and you are offering me the ability to have those same points at 80 cents a point.

The spend requirement to trade in previously was $15K, not sure what it might be currently.

 

[dioxide45]

I don't follow. Equity trade in of your weeks, what are you trading in for, Abound Club Points ? If yes, why would you do this when I suspect annual MF's are more for the Club Points .

Some resorts/units/weeks have MF per points that are higher than the MF for trust points. Our Orlando Gold weeks are close to $1. If we were converting those weeks to points every year, we could save on MFs by moving them to pure trust points.

 

[Dean]

Some resorts/units/weeks have MF per points that are higher than the MF for trust points. Our Orlando Gold weeks are close to $1. If we were converting those weeks to points every year, we could save on MFs by moving them to pure trust points.

Or possibly even lower by converting to enrolled weeks. For many who want to ditch resorts that don't work well for them simply dumping them is often the best plan. Possibly by buying something as a replacement. While I have a couple of resorts with high fees per point, I'm not normally taking points on those but rather using them for exchange. Now if they waived the minimum spend, I could see a number of possibilities but I'm extremely skeptical that will ever be a true option.

 

[dioxide45]

Jeremy, was there a discussion about what you'd be trading for? I've seen trade in offers before and they always included a minimum spend above the trade in amount.

It was overall conversation about what and how they are selling points. Their main pitch was on Bundle packages, but I asked about several other possibilities. It seems they changed how they market these. In the past you had to purchase an amount of points equal to or higher than the week you were buying in the bundle. Now bundles are based on a fixed point purchase based on the number of weeks in the bundle;

1 week can be bundled with 2,500 points
2 week can be bundled with 3,500 points
3 week can be bundled with 5,000 points
4 week can be bundled with 6,000 points
5 week can be bundled with 7,000 points

**NO EXCEPTIONS ON ENROLLMENT OF MORE THAN 5 WEEKS**

They do have a couple weeks that are special and can be bundled with the purchase of only 1,500 points. These were DSVII white weeks and gold NCV.

As for the equity trade in. It was said that as long as we owned some amount of trust points already we could trade in our weeks without an additional point purchase. Not sure how true that really is if and when one actually tried to do it.

 

[bazzap]

Some resorts/units/weeks have MF per points that are higher than the MF for trust points. Our Orlando Gold weeks are close to $1. If we were converting those weeks to points every year, we could save on MFs by moving them to pure trust points.

Similarly for us with our St Kitts Beach Club Gold weeks at close to $1 with a very poor 2,525 enrolled points value.
So after many years and enjoyable stays but no luck in trying to sell them we have reluctantly just deeded them back to MVC.
All of our other weeks come in well below $0.80, with Phuket Beach Club at ~$0.35

 

[goodbadugly]

At MGO this week, they offered an equity trade in of my MGO gold week (3850) points if I purchased 2000 additional points. I laughed and said, so I currently have access to my enrolled 3850 points at 49 cents a point, and you are offering me the ability to have those same points at 80 cents a point.

In addition if you wanted to use those points to go to MGO you would need more points than 3850!!!

 

[Fasttr]

In addition if you wanted to use those points to go to MGO you would need more points than 3850!!!

Exactly… and we do use it every year at this point.

 

[vail]

Everyone has their reasons. For me, it would be for flexibility. My weeks are fixed unit, fixed week. They are not floating weeks. I could rent the weeks out themselves but the market doesn’t have as many people that are willing to spend $10,000 to $12,000 to rent a week. By being able to convert to points it will be easier to rent out my points. Each week could convert to 10,225 points.

If I rented it out at 2025 Full MF rates, that would bring in about $8800 in total. It won’t be as much as the week but it will open up my pool of renters. Plus, I can then bank those points a head a year if I need to. Or I could exchange future weeks and borrow the points.

So what I’m paying for is flexibility. I would be willing to pay $10k to have the option to exchange my week for points each year.

what week is worth 10k points?
Thanks.

 

[Dean]

It was overall conversation about what and how they are selling points. Their main pitch was on Bundle packages, but I asked about several other possibilities. It seems they changed how they market these. In the past you had to purchase an amount of points equal to or higher than the week you were buying in the bundle. Now bundles are based on a fixed point purchase based on the number of weeks in the bundle;

1 week can be bundled with 2,500 points
2 week can be bundled with 3,500 points
3 week can be bundled with 5,000 points
4 week can be bundled with 6,000 points
5 week can be bundled with 7,000 points

**NO EXCEPTIONS ON ENROLLMENT OF MORE THAN 5 WEEKS**

They do have a couple weeks that are special and can be bundled with the purchase of only 1,500 points. These were DSVII white weeks and gold NCV.

As for the equity trade in. It was said that as long as we owned some amount of trust points already we could trade in our weeks without an additional point purchase. Not sure how true that really is if and when one actually tried to do it.

Yes, matching up to required spend at increments has been in place for a while. The difference I see are the 2500 rather than 3000 and 3500 rather than 4000 for 1 & 2 weeks. This likely represents an acknowledgement that things have slowed down a bit on sales. As for the equity trade in there has to be a catch that will separate us from more money. What I've seen is full value for the traded in portion but a minimum spend of $15K.

 

[Dean]

what week is worth 10k points?
Thanks.

The only ones I know of that are truly 10K are Maui new towers OF units. There are quite a bit that are fairly lose for HI, Aruba and Crystal Shores looking at plus weeks.

 

[sponger76]

what week is worth 10k points?
Thanks.

A 3BR Oceanfront on Maui, for one. There are some others as well.