• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Sales pitch

Phunny64

Guest
Joined
Mar 10, 2019
Messages
22
Reaction score
9
Location
Castleton, NY
Resorts Owned
Wyndham, WORLDMARK
Hi People - I wanted to know can someone explain this math to me. We are currenly in San Antionio Tx riverwalk, great location. Anyway, We took the 60 i mean 90 minute 100 bucks and some perks like a tour we got our them for a hamburger and sales guy 1:1 no big room thing....We bought our wyndham points third party and have 364k yearly between the two deeds. We pay about 270 a month in maint our home is Palm Aire Fl, first we had to be lectured on palm aire has the highest maint costs. After feeling 2 feet tall, he said would you like to see how you can save on maint. He first says in 15 years you will pay 77K in maint fees, explaining they can go up 20% capped. In our 3 years we havent seen it but it does go up. He said we could sell it to them for like pennies or resell etc, after I sat up he said if we repurchase the same points for 77K and same maint I assume out of pocket , through some cash account we can bank 4000 a year??? This is where he lost me ... He said as a secondary market we dont have acces to this cash credit account....so by repurchasing youd have this access. Im not even considering it but his first fuzzy math of 77k for 15 years of maint doesnt add up to me as i dont see it going up 20% a year over year. Then to repurchase?? If someone can explain this i'd be interested. Thank you!!
 

Jan M.

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
4,512
Reaction score
5,871
Location
Tamarac, FL
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach
Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Woodstone and Summit at Massanutten - Both in RCI weeks used as Wyndham PICs
Can't explain it because it's all b.s.
 

samara64

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
1,043
Reaction score
465
Location
Seattle
Were his lips moving when he said that. That is the first sign of trouble and more problems down the line.

MF can go up this high but it will be for all the contracts. There is no difference between developer and resale purchase in terms of MF.

What he might be referring to is the option to turn your credits into cash for BELOW the charged MF which is a very BAD DEAL.

Just enjoy your vacation and forget about it.
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
520
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
Even the sales weasel doesn't understand his fuzzy math. One tactic would be to slow him down by starting to write down all his numbers and to ask him a hundred questions on every step. He would have tied himself into a pretzel and started to look foolish and flustered and provided you a lot of entertainment.:)

This is the same nonsense they pulled on me at the Towers at Myrle beach even though I was already platinum with only retail purchases in my account. In my case, they were going to show me how to pay off all my MF by buying stuff now so I don't have to pay later.

This is the numbers game: You have to pay $77k over 15 years. But you pay me $50k now which can be used to pay off the $77k from the future. So, you're making a $27k profit, don't you see? It's money for jam or jelly. How can I be such a fool to walk away from this once-in-a-lifetime offer? And they only make this lucrative deals to the very best customers like me who know the value of money. They don't make such offers, a gem of a deal, to any old guy who walks in off the street. Only to us. Because, we're special people, very special. PRECIOUS!:shrug:

They were so flustered by my questions and were really getting annoyed. It's a numbers game those fools were cluelessly playing against a numbers guy. :)
But, in the end, it's not worth your time. It's better to stay silent, get the reward and get out!
 
Last edited:

ecwinch

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,737
Reaction score
1,122
Location
San Antonio
Resorts Owned
Marriott Harbour Point (HP), Kauai Beach Villas, Riverside Suites, WorldMark Pts (WM), Wyndham Pts
This is the "spend $15k today to save $80 a year" pitch. They like to use this one on owners who bought resale, and figure if they talk fast enough - some % of people will not call them on their bs.
 

HitchHiker71

Moderator
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
4,342
Reaction score
3,821
Location
The First State
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I (PIC Plus)
Colonies at Williamsburg (PIC Plus)
CWA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
IIRC 20% is the contractual maximum that CWA can rise in any one year for MFs. It’s buried in the legalese somewhere AFAIK however I’ve never seen it firsthand to be clear. Take a theoretical maximum and paint it forward with the worst case assumption - even though CWA has knot increased 3-4% a year on average since it has come into existence.

This is the usual “daze and confuse” sales weasel approach of employing half truths to get people to buy more developer points. Don’t fall for it.

The banking money half truth is taking some portion of your points and converting them back into MFs. The trick here is Wyndham will only credit you back a portion of what you actually pay - so it’s deficit financing at its finest no matter how you slice it. Or they could be referring to using EH for rentals - but again you are better off renting your own points than using EH as you make a lot more renting your own points. Using EH Wyndham takes 40% of the rental price. When you rent your own points - you get 100% of the proceeds.

Again don’t fall for the sales pitches - it’s all cleverly masked BS to separate you from your hard earned money.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bestpal38

Guest
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
209
Reaction score
167
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Club Access
Hi People - I wanted to know can someone explain this math to me. We are currenly in San Antionio Tx riverwalk, great location. Anyway, We took the 60 i mean 90 minute 100 bucks and some perks like a tour we got our them for a hamburger and sales guy 1:1 no big room thing....We bought our wyndham points third party and have 364k yearly between the two deeds. We pay about 270 a month in maint our home is Palm Aire Fl, first we had to be lectured on palm aire has the highest maint costs. After feeling 2 feet tall, he said would you like to see how you can save on maint. He first says in 15 years you will pay 77K in maint fees, explaining they can go up 20% capped. In our 3 years we havent seen it but it does go up. He said we could sell it to them for like pennies or resell etc, after I sat up he said if we repurchase the same points for 77K and same maint I assume out of pocket , through some cash account we can bank 4000 a year??? This is where he lost me ... He said as a secondary market we dont have acces to this cash credit account....so by repurchasing youd have this access. Im not even considering it but his first fuzzy math of 77k for 15 years of maint doesnt add up to me as i dont see it going up 20% a year over year. Then to repurchase?? If someone can explain this i'd be interested. Thank you!!
Let me first tell you, when you sign up for the workshop, they assign an amount of time you are obligated for. At the start of your presentation, you set a timer on your cell phone, and when that timer goes off, you politely excuse yourself, ask where the gifting desk is, and leave. They will try their darndest to keep you much longer. I teach people around me in the sales pitch to do this.
 

ba2471

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
69
Reaction score
28
Resorts Owned
Wyndham
Let me first tell you, when you sign up for the workshop, they assign an amount of time you are obligated for. At the start of your presentation, you set a timer on your cell phone, and when that timer goes off, you politely excuse yourself, ask where the gifting desk is, and leave. They will try their darndest to keep you much longer. I teach people around me in the sales pitch to do this.
I am putting this arrow in my quiver.....
 

silentg

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
6,214
Reaction score
3,298
Location
Central Florida
Resorts Owned
Fitzpatrick's Castle Holiday Homes,
Enchanted Isle.
We don’t go anymore, I don’t care what they offer, my time is more valuable than listening to nonsense. I just enjoy what I own or what I traded into.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,328
Hi People - I wanted to know can someone explain this math to me. We are currenly in San Antionio Tx riverwalk, great location. Anyway, We took the 60 i mean 90 minute 100 bucks and some perks like a tour we got our them for a hamburger and sales guy 1:1 no big room thing....We bought our wyndham points third party and have 364k yearly between the two deeds. We pay about 270 a month in maint our home is Palm Aire Fl, first we had to be lectured on palm aire has the highest maint costs. After feeling 2 feet tall, he said would you like to see how you can save on maint. He first says in 15 years you will pay 77K in maint fees, explaining they can go up 20% capped. In our 3 years we havent seen it but it does go up. He said we could sell it to them for like pennies or resell etc, after I sat up he said if we repurchase the same points for 77K and same maint I assume out of pocket , through some cash account we can bank 4000 a year??? This is where he lost me ... He said as a secondary market we dont have acces to this cash credit account....so by repurchasing youd have this access. Im not even considering it but his first fuzzy math of 77k for 15 years of maint doesnt add up to me as i dont see it going up 20% a year over year. Then to repurchase?? If someone can explain this i'd be interested. Thank you!!
I bet the sales offer would be hard for him to explain. Remember Wyndham math just never adds up!!
 

Phunny64

Guest
Joined
Mar 10, 2019
Messages
22
Reaction score
9
Location
Castleton, NY
Resorts Owned
Wyndham, WORLDMARK
We don’t go anymore, I don’t care what they offer, my time is more valuable than listening to nonsense. I just enjoy what I own or what I traded into.
exactly how i feel it became 90min is it worth 100 bucks on vacation ,,, i agree thats it... !!!
 

Phunny64

Guest
Joined
Mar 10, 2019
Messages
22
Reaction score
9
Location
Castleton, NY
Resorts Owned
Wyndham, WORLDMARK
IIRC 20% is the contractual maximum that CWA can rise in any one year for MFs. It’s buried in the legalese somewhere AFAIK however I’ve never seen it firsthand to be clear. Take a theoretical maximum and paint it forward with the worst case assumption - even though CWA has knot increased 3-4% a year on average since it has come into existence.

This is n don’t fall for the sales pitches - it’s all cleverly masked BS to separate




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You confirmed what I thought for our three a little less owned it, we havent seen more than 4%, When he said 20% im like no way, people would be in court. Even after the Hurricane a few years ago it went up 4%. Then his banking of cash in his example 4K Ihave no idea where that was coming from. In the past they pushed the credit card and points club but to be honest I wouldnt stay in a Wyndham branded hotel. For work its Marriott or Hiltons, so to collect points that way makes no sense. Now the next question I had though did i waste money bank points. We felt we were going to use all of our points last year so we banked 150K for 39 bucks.... i think about it and say did i do something silly. Thanks for your input

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk
 

Jan M.

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
4,512
Reaction score
5,871
Location
Tamarac, FL
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach
Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Woodstone and Summit at Massanutten - Both in RCI weeks used as Wyndham PICs
You confirmed what I thought for our three a little less owned it, we havent seen more than 4%, When he said 20% im like no way, people would be in court. Even after the Hurricane a few years ago it went up 4%. Then his banking of cash in his example 4K Ihave no idea where that was coming from. In the past they pushed the credit card and points club but to be honest I wouldnt stay in a Wyndham branded hotel. For work its Marriott or Hiltons, so to collect points that way makes no sense. Now the next question I had though did i waste money bank points. We felt we were going to use all of our points last year so we banked 150K for 39 bucks.... i think about it and say did i do something silly. Thanks for your input

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk

You deposited 150k points in a future use year for only $39. It's smart planning and a cheap price to pay to not be stuck at the end of the year and faced with an option you may not see as a good value or one you want. Your only other worthwhile option if you weren't able to use all your points would be to deposit them in RCI. Lots of owners deposit points into RCI and not just because they are stuck at the end of their use years. You can get some great stays. However when you go to use those points that were deposited in RCI there is an exchange fee of $239 for each week you book.

I'm not going to sugar coat it, from the numbers you posted it looks like your maintenance fees are $8.90 per thousand points and that's pretty high. But not the highest as the salesperson claimed. Since you said you bought resale if you didn't specifically buy points at Palm-Aire in order to have ARP, Advance Reservation Priority, at that resort then you may at some future date consider readjusting your portfolio. Lots of owners do that. You could see if you can find a good deal on something with lower maintenance fees and see if Ovations will take back those Palm-Aire deeds or if you can find someone who will take them for the closing costs, around $215 through LT Transfers, and the Wyndham transfer fees of $299 per deed or possibly split the costs. My rule of thumb is if I can recover the cost of the lower maintenance fee points and the expenses of getting rid of the higher maintenance fee points in 5 years or less in what I will save by having lower maintenance fees then it is a no brainer for me. If it is 6 or 7 years I will have to give it some thought; it might go either way. If it is 8 years and up then I'm out because we are 68 and 70 years old. Other people may have different criteria in regards to the number of years would take to break even.
 

Carol C

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,875
Reaction score
266
Location
USA
We don’t go anymore, I don’t care what they offer, my time is more valuable than listening to nonsense. I just enjoy what I own or what I traded into.

I agree with you! Today me and a friend of mine went to a boat show in a convention center, and a Wyndham OPC offered each of us $300 to attend a sales presentation. That's 600 bucks. We said no thanks and walked. We must look like "cheap dates". :unsure:
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
520
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
I agree with you! Today me and a friend of mine went to a boat show in a convention center, and a Wyndham OPC offered each of us $300 to attend a sales presentation. That's 600 bucks. We said no thanks and walked. We must look like "cheap dates". :unsure:

Why do they do this? What happened to 'if you build it, they will come.'

I think I should get rewarded $100 each time I send a friend on GC and they attend and get $100. Or maybe they did and that's why I have 15 extra GCs in my account!:ponder:
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,405
Reaction score
4,021
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
Sounds like a heckuva deal! What could go wrong?
 

HitchHiker71

Moderator
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
4,342
Reaction score
3,821
Location
The First State
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I (PIC Plus)
Colonies at Williamsburg (PIC Plus)
CWA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
Why do they do this? What happened to 'if you build it, they will come.'

I think I should get rewarded $100 each time I send a friend on GC and they attend and get $100. Or maybe they did and that's why I have 15 extra GCs in my account!:ponder:

Well, for me, I tell anyone that I send to any Wyndham location to “just say no” regardless of the incentive offered. I don’t want anyone I would call “friend” subjected to the “daze and confuse” sales tactics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
520
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
Well, for me, I tell anyone that I send to any Wyndham location to “just say no” regardless of the incentive offered. I don’t want anyone I would call “friend” subjected to the “daze and confuse” sales tactics.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, they're smarter than me. They just collect the reward. My rental guests are on their own. I don't think they attend. Not my problem, anyway.
One time, my son's caretaker, whom I had gifted, called me from Canterbury and even had me speak to the sales guy. I talked her out of it by casting a counter-spell no dinero, no comprar! ;)
There's no way Wyndham should be selling to her! Smh.
 
Top