[Rumor] SVC merger with Interval results in end of converting SPG points for weeks

[YYJMSP]

And, while they are at it, they should let SVN owners exchange into Hyatt TS.

I'm sure that will show up one day that you can be use a new IntervalOptions currency...

 

[NNerland]

At the end of the day, it's in the interest of the hotel companies to keep selling the points to the ts management companies. Why? Money. Lots of it. That's why it's such a bad deal for the owner.

That is not always true. I don't like when TUGGER's make biased statements that are general opinions. We have converted our ownership many times to hotel points. We often, in fact it is my PERSONAL policy, come out far ahead versus paying for hotel rooms and many times it is at minimum the same if not twice as cheap as our dues. Sure if you use your hotel points at a Four Points Sheraton that goes for $100/night you will lose. But if you are like me and use in NYC, Nashville, Punta Mita, Chicago, San Fran, San Diego -- you can often get hotel rooms on points at 50% the value. So we can covert our options that cost us $2300 for Winter Bay Vista into 150,000+ points. You can get a lot of really nice hotel rooms for 150,000 and they only cost us $2300.

So while I agree 100% that the #1 reason conversion won't go away is the fact it is an ENORMOUS revenue stream for hotels. Just like it is the #1 reason they, like airlines, push their credit cards. HUGE profits to the entities paid by the credit card companies. It is very much in their interest to keep this alive. It is very much in the interest of SVO/Interval/Vistana/Whatever it is to continue an agreement with the hotels to make their "retail" offerings more attractive.

So for you new TUGGERS - retail isn't always the best and most efficient way to purchase, especially if you have the intent to vacation where you buy. But to continue blanket statements of the rip off of point conversions is simply not the 100% truth.

 

[Helios]

I'm sure that will show up one day that you can be use a new IntervalOptions currency...

That would be pretty cool and is what I am hoping. Also, of course, they should leave Elite benefits intact.:hysterical:

 

[Helios]

So for you new TUGGERS - retail isn't always the best and most efficient way to purchase, especially if you have the intent to vacation where you buy. But to continue blanket statements of the rip off of point conversions is simply not the 100% truth.

Nicely said

Hopefully you don't get kicked out of TUG...

 

[YYJMSP]

That would be pretty cool and is what I am hoping. Also, of course, they should leave Elite benefits intact.:hysterical:

It's all wait and see and adapt to whatever happens.

What we lose on one side is hopefully matched by some gain/flexibility on the other side...

 

[lizap]

I think this would be a very bad thing for both Hyatt and Starwood owners as I believe II owns other TSs that aren't on par, and their owners would also likely have this new currency, thus competing with us for Hyatts and/or Starwoods.

I'm sure that will show up one day that you can be use a new IntervalOptions currency...

 

[okwiater]

So for you new TUGGERS - retail isn't always the best and most efficient way to purchase, especially if you have the intent to vacation where you buy. But to continue blanket statements of the rip off of point conversions is simply not the 100% truth.

Nicely said

Hopefully you don't get kicked out of TUG...

I agree!

 

[YYJMSP]

I think this would be a very bad thing for both Hyatt and Starwood owners as I believe II owns other TSs that aren't on par, and their owners would also likely have this new currency, thus competing with us for Hyatts and/or Starwoods.

Like everything else, it would all depend on the conversion rates between programs. It already exists in II with some kind of "trading power" formula we aren't party to the details of.

I think a more explicit points based trading system would be a logical step forward for ILG...

 

[Ron98GT]

10. Dogs and cats living together.
9. Lower hot tub temperatures.
8. New logos featuring S & M design.
7. Tuesday to Tuesday 12 month reservations only.
6. Better chance of Trump winning presidency.
5. Ocean front reservations will no longer specify which ocean.
4. Cruise reservations will be allowed with StarOptions on a 3 for 4 ratio after initial cash deposit of $300-400 depending upon SW Status or Marriott common shares held prior to merger or oldest child's birthdate. Exceptions may apply.
3. Housekeeping changes will allow studio guests to use linens from 1-2 bedroom guests.
2. 5 minute inactive lounge chair use prior to sale of personal items on EBay.
1. Three words: water slide rash.

Actually, I found the pool and hot tub temperatures to be a lot warmer at the Marriott TS's on Maui, than the Westin: MOC vs WKORV.

 

[Bill4728]

For those of you who like to convert their *options to hotel points you may not like Marriott. Marriott hotels allow developer bought pts/weeks to convert to hotel pts but since they keep raising the number of pts needed for rooms ( because the keep upgrading the hotel categories) while never upgrading the number of pts they give you for your week. On top of that any couple can pay $1250 and buy 100K hotel pts without giving up their TS week/pts. OR give up your week ( after paying your MFs which will likely be ~$1200) and get the 100 k pts.

So I for one would never give up my week to convert for pts.

 

[YYJMSP]

For those of you who like to convert their *options to hotel points you may not like Marriott. Marriott hotels allow developer bought pts/weeks to convert to hotel pts but since they keep raising the number of pts needed for rooms ( because the keep upgrading the hotel categories) while never upgrading the number of pts they give you for your week. On top of that any couple can pay $1250 and buy 100K hotel pts without giving up their TS week/pts. OR give up your week ( after paying your MFs which will likely be ~$1200) and get the 100 k pts.

So I for one would never give up my week to convert for pts.

This is pretty much the same with SVO and SPG. Of course, the numbers are different as SPG points are not the same as Marriott points.

SPG categories (i.e. the points needed to book a hotel room) change constantly, up and sometimes down. In our case, we figure a typical room will cost us ~15K/night, taking in to account we want larger rooms (junior or full suites) and book to take advantage of 5th night free.

SVO conversion rates (i.e. the points you get for giving up your week) do not change, so you're going to get the same number of points regardless of what they're currently costing you. In general, they are worth less and less each year, as the price of MFs goes up. In our case, we would get ~55K SPG/week average (enough for say 4nights), at a 2016 cost of ~$1300/week (so ~$325/nt). The cost has been rising around 3% per year.

SPG allows points purchases. So, yes, you don't need trade in your week to get points. There is a limit on how many SPG points you can buy in a year, but there are ways around that. In our case, points we convert (only taking the MFs in to account, nothing else) in 2016 cost us 2c each, and we could buy from SPG for around 2.5c each.

So, in general, probably a bad idea to convert to points if you're looking at rooms that would cost less than $300/nt. A potentially good idea if you're looking at expensive rooms (i.e. high season, popular destination, upgraded rooms) that you might not have been willing/able to book otherwise.

YMMV of course!

 

[tschwa2]

That is not always true. I don't like when TUGGER's make biased statements that are general opinions. We have converted our ownership many times to hotel points. We often, in fact it is my PERSONAL policy, come out far ahead versus paying for hotel rooms and many times it is at minimum the same if not twice as cheap as our dues. Sure if you use your hotel points at a Four Points Sheraton that goes for $100/night you will lose. But if you are like me and use in NYC, Nashville, Punta Mita, Chicago, San Fran, San Diego -- you can often get hotel rooms on points at 50% the value. So we can covert our options that cost us $2300 for Winter Bay Vista into 150,000+ points. You can get a lot of really nice hotel rooms for 150,000 and they only cost us $2300.

So while I agree 100% that the #1 reason conversion won't go away is the fact it is an ENORMOUS revenue stream for hotels. Just like it is the #1 reason they, like airlines, push their credit cards. HUGE profits to the entities paid by the credit card companies. It is very much in their interest to keep this alive. It is very much in the interest of SVO/Interval/Vistana/Whatever it is to continue an agreement with the hotels to make their "retail" offerings more attractive.

So for you new TUGGERS - retail isn't always the best and most efficient way to purchase, especially if you have the intent to vacation where you buy. But to continue blanket statements of the rip off of point conversions is simply not the 100% truth.

My question is how much did you pay retail for that Winter 3 br Bay Vista unit. Looking at the 2008 price list, it looks like they went for about $85,000 for a float. Let's say every year you are saving $3000-4000 vs booking the hotels without the 150,000+points plus $2300 in MF;s. Every year the MF's will go up and the hotel reward points will get slightly diminished probably more so than the hotel prices would go up. I guess SP's were increased along with SO's because the price list only indicates 78,000 SP's for a 3 br bay vista.

Also Marriott's degredation of hotel reward points has been a little steeper than Starwood's and with Marriott likely in the drivers seat I would expect the erosion to speed up a little for Starwood as well.

To me it still seems really hard to justify buying retail not because you want a specific unit and view that you can't find on the secondary market but because you want to gamble that hotel reward point conversion will continue to make sense for 10-20 years.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Thanks for keeping the boat afloat!
{or the house of cards from collapsing...?}

 

[NNerland]

My question is how much did you pay retail for that Winter 3 br Bay Vista unit. Looking at the 2008 price list, it looks like they went for about $85,000 for a float. Let's say every year you are saving $3000-4000 vs booking the hotels without the 150,000+points plus $2300 in MF;s. Every year the MF's will go up and the hotel reward points will get slightly diminished probably more so than the hotel prices would go up. I guess SP's were increased along with SO's because the price list only indicates 78,000 SP's for a 3 br bay vista.

Also Marriott's degredation of hotel reward points has been a little steeper than Starwood's and with Marriott likely in the drivers seat I would expect the erosion to speed up a little for Starwood as well.

To me it still seems really hard to justify buying retail not because you want a specific unit and view that you can't find on the secondary market but because you want to gamble that hotel reward point conversion will continue to make sense for 10-20 years.

We only bought an every other year when the market was very depressed 3 Bedroom Bay Vista -- we then purchased an Every Year Bay Vista Winter 3 Bedroom for about 20% retail on the secondary market. I have learned that St John doesn't have First Right of Refusal on Bay Vista - so if you are a deal maker you can find some really good deals with people who don't know what they are doing.

We are 5star and have over 700,000 points and we paid about 30% of what one normally would -- we did some upgrades that were in our favor and bought an initial two at retail....but we got ourselves to 5star and are very happy.

Of course, things can always change, but we have everything in St John and got very lucky on the enhanced point levels, we got lucky.