Rumor re: St Regis NYC

[Eric B]

Heard the wisps of a rumor that MVC will be selling off the MVC NYC property in the next few years and adding the St Regis on 55th and 5th to Abound in its place. Not sure about the validity of the rumor; has anyone else heard about this? I've seen St Regis NYC availability in ThirdHome but never booked any because they are always asking for a rather high number of keys; they go quickly there, though. I would expect a rather high cost in Club Points to stay there if it really happens. It would seem kind of an odd addition bypassing the Ritz-Carlton Destination Club and 47 Park Street; more likely to be something like the arrangement at 47 Park Street I would guess rather than open to all Abound members.

 

[dioxide45]

I would think in order for them to add St Regis, they would have to allow some type of enrollment option for owners there. Isn't that a Residences property? Or is it fractional like Ritz Carlton? I know they've never conveyed any NYC inventory to the trust, so it could end with a similar fate as Westin Cancun Resort where they sold it and only allow point owners to book it for another x number of years. I am not sure why they haven't conveyed any NYC inventory to the Abound trust. It would seem if they are looking for inventory to sell, that would be a great place to get it. Perhaps too many regulatory hurdles to overcome?

 

[Eric B]

I would think in order for them to add St Regis, they would have to allow some type of enrollment option for owners there. Isn't that a Residences property? Or is it fractional like Ritz Carlton? I know they've never conveyed any NYC inventory to the trust, so it could end with a similar fate as Westin Cancun Resort where they sold it and only allow point owners to book it for another x number of years. I am not sure why they haven't conveyed any NYC inventory to the Abound trust. It would seem if they are looking for inventory to sell, that would be a great place to get it. Perhaps too many regulatory hurdles to overcome?

Part of it is St Regis Residence Club, which includes St Regis Aspen and the Phoenician, and th remainder is hotel. The St Regis Residence Club is fractional ownership of 3 weeks per year, 2 of which can be exchanged to the other properties or converted to Bonvoy points. It was the Vistana version of the Ritz-Carlton Destination Club but not tied into VSN.

 

[dioxide45]

Then I guess the main question to answer is where would MVC get the inventory to feed the points system? Does Vistana still own any inventory at the property? If not, they would have to offer enrollment and perhaps those two weeks elligible for Bonvoy conversion could also be elected for Club Points. I would think the location of the MVC property is preferable to the location of St Regis.

Also, what was the source of the rumor? Sales?

 

[WBP]

The St. Regis hotel in Manhattan is probably one of the most luxurious, elegant, most high performing luxury hotels in Manhattan (rich in history). The hotel was the Crown Jewel of Starwood Hotels and Resorts. One can only hope that Marriott does not lower the bar on that once, true, five-star+, true luxury hotel.

 

[Eric B]

Then I guess the main question to answer is where would MVC get the inventory to feed the points system? Does Vistana still own any inventory at the property? If not, they would have to offer enrollment and perhaps those two weeks elligible for Bonvoy conversion could also be elected for Club Points. I would think the location of the MVC property is preferable to the location of St Regis.

Also, what was the source of the rumor? Sales?

Sounded like the discussion was that MVC was buying or had bought the remainder of the hotel. As far as location goes, we stay at the Quin when we’re in NYC, at W57th & 6th. Don’t have an opinion on the current MVC location as we don’t stay there, but the proximity to Central Park, the Met, and the theater district works for us where we are. Plus, HGVC provides breakfast and hors d’oeuvres with beer & wine in the evening for owners. The St Regis location seems good to me.

 

[WBP]

Sounded like the discussion was that MVC was buying or had bought the remainder of the hotel. As far as location goes, we stay at the Quin when we’re in NYC, at W57th & 6th. Don’t have an opinion on the current MVC location as we don’t stay there, but the proximity to Central Park, the Met, and the theater district works for us where we are. Plus, HGVC provides breakfast and hors d’oeuvres with beer & wine in the evening for owners. The St Regis location seems good to me.

I find it hard to believe that the St. Regis leadership/people would lower their bar and esteem to do business with Marriott Vacations Worldwide. I can only imagine what the once leaders of the former St. Regis fractional brand thought, when they had a Coming to Christ, and had to deal with the Marriott Vacation Club people. To the consummate professional, luxury hoteliers at the St. Regis, simply having to have a conversation with the Marriott Vacation Club people, would be offensive (only to get worse with the Diamond timeshare sharks, now in executive leadership positions at MVW).

I have no basis for this opinion, other than gut-instinct; I say the St, Regis Manhattan story does not pass my Sniff Test, for lots of reasons, #1 being the REVPAR of the St. Regis in Manhattan, which is off the chart. The only thing that I see as a Wild Card, is the time it will take to restore International travel, particularly from Europe and Canada, to the United States, and the impact of the decline on luxury hotels (fortunately, the St. Regis Manhattan continues to enjoy strong demand). That may not occur until the White House is cleared-out.

 

[Eric B]

I would think in order for them to add St Regis, they would have to allow some type of enrollment option for owners there. Isn't that a Residences property? Or is it fractional like Ritz Carlton? I know they've never conveyed any NYC inventory to the trust, so it could end with a similar fate as Westin Cancun Resort where they sold it and only allow point owners to book it for another x number of years. I am not sure why they haven't conveyed any NYC inventory to the Abound trust. It would seem if they are looking for inventory to sell, that would be a great place to get it. Perhaps too many regulatory hurdles to overcome?

If you look up the public offering statement for the MVC NYC property on 37th you’ll see it was never set up as a timeshare for sale to the public. It’s just set up as a multiple unit condo without an offering statement. This would indicate to me that it was always intended to allow usage through an exchange rather than as a timeshare ownership structure. I would guess it was intentional in order to allow flexibility for future resale of the underlying property if value increased significantly, which is always a likelihood in Manhattan. MVC can easily sell it without having to deal with hundreds or thousands of owners, unlike the set up in the HGVC properties in Manhattan. The St Regis is set up similarly with it divided between hotel and residences but no offering statement for timeshare or fractional ownership. There have been a few amendments over the years for the St Regis, changing the number of residences.

I find it hard to believe that the St. Regis leadership/people would lower their bar and esteem to do business with Marriott Vacations Worldwide. I can only imagine what the once leaders of the former St. Regis fractional brand thought, when they had a Coming to Christ, and had to deal with the Marriott Vacation Club people. To the consummate professional, luxury hoteliers at the St. Regis, simply having to have a conversation with the Marriott Vacation Club people, would be offensive (only to get worse with the Diamond timeshare sharks, now in executive leadership positions at MVW).

I have no basis for this opinion, other than gut-instinct; I say the St, Regis Manhattan story does not pass my Sniff Test, for lots of reasons, #1 being the REVPAR of the St. Regis in Manhattan, which is off the chart. The only thing that I see as a Wild Card, is the time it will take to restore International travel, particularly from Europe and Canada, to the United States, and the impact of the decline on luxury hotels (fortunately, the St. Regis Manhattan continues to enjoy strong demand). That may not occur until the White House is cleared-out.

Follow the money. The St Regis seems to be owned in part Fifth Avenue Hotel Suites, LLC and operated by St Regis New York Operating LLC, both of which share a mailing address care of Marriott International in Bethesda per the latest filing in 2019, which was for a rehab. If they reduce the available rooms by making more TS/fractional units, the REVPAR would rise. I don’t know of publicly available info on what that specific one does for performance right now, so couldn’t guess as to whether it’s currently off the charts. Availability there looks plentiful and prices are not much higher than Waldorf Astoria or Ritz-Carlton prices.

BTW, Marriott International, the leadership of the hotel, has a long history of doing business with MVW.

 

[WBP]

If you look up the public offering statement for the MVC NYC property on 37th you’ll see it was never set up as a timeshare for sale to the public. It’s just set up as a multiple unit condo without an offering statement. This would indicate to me that it was always intended to allow usage through an exchange rather than as a timeshare ownership structure. I would guess it was intentional in order to allow flexibility for future resale of the underlying property if value increased significantly, which is always a likelihood in Manhattan. MVC can easily sell it without having to deal with hundreds or thousands of owners, unlike the set up in the HGVC properties in Manhattan. The St Regis is set up similarly with it divided between hotel and residences but no offering statement for timeshare or fractional ownership. There have been a few amendments over the years for the St Regis, changing the number of residences.



Follow the money. The St Regis seems to be owned in part Fifth Avenue Hotel Suites, LLC and operated by St Regis New York Operating LLC, both of which share a mailing address care of Marriott International in Bethesda per the latest filing in 2019, which was for a rehab. If they reduce the available rooms by making more TS/fractional units, the REVPAR would rise. I don’t know of publicly available info on what that specific one does for performance right now, so couldn’t guess as to whether it’s currently off the charts. Availability there looks plentiful and prices are not much higher than Waldorf Astoria or Ritz-Carlton prices.

BTW, Marriott International, the leadership of the hotel, has a long history of doing business with MVW.

I read your writings, and remembered this play, from earlier this year. I wonder what is going on at the luxury tier of hotels in Manhattan?

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/waldorf-astorias-chinese-owners-plan-sell-iconic-nyc-hotel-wsj-reports-2026-02-12/

 

[sponger76]

Follow the money. The St Regis seems to be owned in part Fifth Avenue Hotel Suites, LLC and operated by St Regis New York Operating LLC, both of which share a mailing address care of Marriott International in Bethesda per the latest filing in 2019, which was for a rehab. If they reduce the available rooms by making more TS/fractional units, the REVPAR would rise. I don’t know of publicly available info on what that specific one does for performance right now, so couldn’t guess as to whether it’s currently off the charts. Availability there looks plentiful and prices are not much higher than Waldorf Astoria or Ritz-Carlton prices.

According to articles I saw, in late 2019 Marriott International sold the St Regis NYC hotel portion to the Qatari government for $310 million; Marriott International is now just the operator of the hotel.

 

[Eric B]

IMHO neither the Qatari government nor Marriott would be so supportive of the St Regis legacy that they would forgo maximizing the value of the one in Manhattan by allowing timeshare users in; they already do after all. I’ve seen mention of some tugger getting a fractional there for free (as I did w/RCC STT). The luxury fractional market is not what it was projected to have been, particularly given the aging out of initial purchasers in an illiquid ownership. Finding another means of paying for the operations is inevitable if the HOAs want to remain solvent - exclusivity has a high and growing cost.

 

[daviator]

If you look up the public offering statement for the MVC NYC property on 37th you’ll see it was never set up as a timeshare for sale to the public. It’s just set up as a multiple unit condo without an offering statement. This would indicate to me that it was always intended to allow usage through an exchange rather than as a timeshare ownership structure. I would guess it was intentional in order to allow flexibility for future resale of the underlying property if value increased significantly, which is always a likelihood in Manhattan. MVC can easily sell it without having to deal with hundreds or thousands of owners, unlike the set up in the HGVC properties in Manhattan. The St Regis is set up similarly with it divided between hotel and residences but no offering statement for timeshare or fractional ownership. There have been a few amendments over the years for the St Regis, changing the number of residences.



Follow the money. The St Regis seems to be owned in part Fifth Avenue Hotel Suites, LLC and operated by St Regis New York Operating LLC, both of which share a mailing address care of Marriott International in Bethesda per the latest filing in 2019, which was for a rehab. If they reduce the available rooms by making more TS/fractional units, the REVPAR would rise. I don’t know of publicly available info on what that specific one does for performance right now, so couldn’t guess as to whether it’s currently off the charts. Availability there looks plentiful and prices are not much higher than Waldorf Astoria or Ritz-Carlton prices.

BTW, Marriott International, the leadership of the hotel, has a long history of doing business with MVW.

I don't think any of MVC's newer properties are mapped as timeshares. Since they no longer sell timeshare weeks, you can't buy a property-specific ownership – even in most of the properties which ARE mapped as timeshares – and so they can put whatever portion of these properties as they want to into the Abound trust and make them available for booking with points. Later they can take them out again, so long as they haven't sold more points than are left in the trust. And they don't have to operate a pesky VOA board or even pretend to be answering to owners.

All of that is my long-winded way of saying that I don't expect that ANY new MVC properties (in the USA at least) will ever again be mapped as timeshare components. For them, at least, that era is over.