Ritz Carlton St Thomas - Update - No Longer Disappointed

[Eric B]

As for trust vs DP points, they would have to separate out the trust units vs elected units. So IF a reserved unit assigned were actually in the trust AND one use ONLY trust points to reserved AND the points were from an ownership at that resort, I could see that argument. I think if any of the variables are not 100% true, the idea that one should be treated the same as an owner at that resort would be invalid IMO. Thus given the trust has no home resort and the administration is done through the exchange program, we're back to this simply being an exchange.

While I'm an unwashed resale Vistana "Marriott Owner" and probably won't have to worry about this, that makes sense to me. If using trust points at a single resort for which some ownership weeks were in the trust were to exceed the number of points for that resort that were in the trust, giving trust point owners the benefits of ownership there would wind up giving more ownership benefits than exist for the resort because some of those trust points must have come from a different resort. It might not make a difference as it seems limited to room assignment and the ability to reserve pool or beach chairs in advance in this case, but could wind up affecting the HOA budgeting for the specific resort in question if those benefits cost anything that isn't de minimis.

 

[Dean]

I agree with everyone that owners at the Ritz Carlton Clubs should have priority. They are paying $15K in MFs and many paid six figures for their entry fee.

I know this next comment with be controversial. I do not understand why resale weeks owners at MVC should get priority over anyone else. I really think people who buy direct from MVC or re-qualify their weeks should have priority. Just my opinion.

This resort does not appear to be full at the moment. I can see into some units and they are not occupied. If it was full with owners, they would not move us to a new unit. They made it very clear that owners have priority and they they would NOT allow a DP owner to take away a better unit from a resort owner.

What is wrong with asking for something once you are at the resort? They can say yes or no. I hear all the time that Tuggers have asked to move rooms.

Believe it or not, I would rather stay in this room right now than move but since they are already planning the move, I do not want to complicate things further. I do not think moving one floor up in the same building is going to be very different.

If anyone is concerned we are taking away a better unit from an owner, then last time we were here, we certianly were assigned one of the best units. That was the choice of the resort. We did not ask to be given a 4th floor panoramic oceanfront unit in the regular 2BR with full kitchen in the tallest building here.

I don't think the fees paid is applicable else those members could reasonably expect priority no matter where they stay. The fact they own a week is sufficient. With a weeks system they really can't discriminate for owners at that resort. I wouldn't think we'd want to go down that rabbit hole as there would be no end to the possibilities where they could move the bar.

 

[Dean]

While I'm an unwashed resale Vistana "Marriott Owner" and probably won't have to worry about this, that makes sense to me. If using trust points at a single resort for which some ownership weeks were in the trust were to exceed the number of points for that resort that were in the trust, giving trust point owners the benefits of ownership there would wind up giving more ownership benefits than exist for the resort because some of those trust points must have come from a different resort. It might not make a difference as it seems limited to room assignment and the ability to reserve pool or beach chairs in advance in this case, but could wind up affecting the HOA budgeting for the specific resort in question if those benefits cost anything that isn't de minimis.

On a practical level, assigning units in general is already a difficult and thankless task. Making it more complicated would make it infinitely more difficult for the staff doing so.

 

[Eric B]

For what it's worth, in Club Wyndham the points that are in their trust (Club Wyndham Access) are tracked day-by-day for availability in resorts using the sole ownership privilege of earlier booking in the Advance Reservation Priority period. If a particular day in a particular unit type at a particular resort is in CWA and you own CWA points, you can book that unit type at that resort on that day between 13 months in advance and 10 months, when availability opens for everyone else. There's no effect on room assignment as that's not a privilege of ownership at a particular resort (with some exceptions).

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree with everyone that owners at the Ritz Carlton Clubs should have priority. They are paying $15K in MFs and many paid six figures for their entry fee.

I know this next comment with be controversial. I do not understand why resale weeks owners at MVC should get priority over anyone else. I really think people who buy direct from MVC or re-qualify their weeks should have priority. Just my opinion.

This resort does not appear to be full at the moment. I can see into some units and they are not occupied. If it was full with owners, they would not move us to a new unit. They made it very clear that owners have priority and they they would NOT allow a DP owner to take away a better unit from a resort owner.

What is wrong with asking for something once you are at the resort? They can say yes or no. I hear all the time that Tuggers have asked to move rooms.

Believe it or not, I would rather stay in this room right now than move but since they are already planning the move, I do not want to complicate things further. I do not think moving one floor up in the same building is going to be very different.

If anyone is concerned we are taking away a better unit from an owner, then last time we were here, we certianly were assigned one of the best units. That was the choice of the resort. We did not ask to be given a 4th floor panoramic oceanfront unit in the regular 2BR with full kitchen in the tallest building here.

Very early on, during the first years of ownership, I thought too that direct-purchasers should be given priority over external resale-purchasers. For everything! Whatever priority MVC wanted to give us I was all for it, until TUGgers were able to convince me otherwise based on the fact that the ownership governing documents don't say one word about any priority being given to the price each individual owner paid. That was the start of me scouring the docs to learn exactly what ownership means for every aspect of timesharing, and doing so is what makes me now believe that each and every individual owner of every like size/view unit is exactly the same as every other.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if all of your expectations were the standard! As a direct-purchase multi-Weeks owner, Destination Club member with Chairman's Club status and Bonvoy member with Lifetime Titanium status, I'd be about as high on any priority lists as it's possible to be! But your expectations aren't the norm, aren't supposed to be the norm because Marriott doesn't advertise itself as a timeshare company where fewer than 5% are to be treated as owners valuable enough to enjoy the best of ownership. At different times we all get an equal shot at the best, which means we all take our fair turn with the worst.

The only thing I find "controversial" about your experience is the way that you blasted the resort very publicly as if they'd withheld something they owed you, when it turns out your expectations were what are unreasonable. You're certainly not the first to have complained loudly enough to force the personnel to respond by appeasing you and you definitely won't be the last - but like I said I wish that priority placement lists didn't have to make room for the loudest complainers.

 

[SandyPGravel]

The owner I spoke to this week said they own a specific week and unit number but the resort does not go by that. She owns a 5th floor regular 2BR and she said they assigned her a 6th floor this week. She said that she asked for 3 weeks for this season and they made the switch for her. She said they are very flexible for owners in accommodating owner requests. The owner said they paid $8000 for the fractional. She said she can exchange into the other Ritz Carlton fractionals pretty easily.

Wow $8000 for 3 weeks!! I thought I did good with my WSJ Plat+ for $7000.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Wow $8000 for 3 weeks!! I thought I did good with my WSJ Plat+ for $7000.

But $5k per week MF. That ROI will quickly change unless you plan to rent out your weeks.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I know this next comment with be controversial. I do not understand why resale weeks owners at MVC should get priority over anyone else. I really think people who buy direct from MVC or re-qualify their weeks should have priority. Just my opinion.

I believe someone stated earlier that many of the weeks were fixed units so resale must have priority for the deeded units they own.

And why is it fair that a resale owner paying $15k a year($5k/week) in MF would get lower priority than a DP owner paying $2000/year equivalent in DPs to stay there? Who is really paying the bills at this resort?

For float weeks, this would constitute a further devaluation to the original owner who would not be able to sell their weeks. Would you pay anything to get last in line priority while paying $5k/week in MF? As it is there is a limited population that can afford to pay cash for a TS and pay $15k/year (and rising).

MVC cannot afford to deedback everything. And if they could, there would not be a sufficient stream of buyers to fulfill the demand - especially now with the economy on the brink.
So they would drop these units into the trust to pass along the cost and your DP MF would skyrocket.

 

[SandyPGravel]

But $5k per week MF. That ROI will quickly change unless you plan to rent out your weeks.

Agree

 

[GregT]

I also think $8K for three weeks is a great deal (recognizing that the MFs are high). I’ve thought about buying a fractional because I would like the two winter weeks but I would always eat the summer week. I also like the Suites because they have terrific balconies, and the smaller kitchen doesn’t bother me. The low floor does mean a compromised view plane, but we stayed in a 2nd floor 3BR Villa in 2015 and had a compromised view plane.

I do love this property and if it was easier to get to, we would be there all the time. However, we purchased a points generator in Aruba that basically functions as an EOY 2 week trip to wherever in the Caribbean we want to go with points with Ritz STT at the top top of the list.

I am very happy Lady Lynsey is back. The original was destroyed in the 2017 hurricanes and good news that a new LL is in place. I was also surprised by the renovations to the hotel — they built a lot of new hotel units on the former open space below the reception building.

Finally, they did close the restaurant on the top of Building 6 — we don’t really care about the free breakfast but it was a great dinner spot (stunning view if you had a window table, with open window) and we were there several times in 2019.

Enjoy your trip!

Best,

Greg

 

[TravelTime]

I believe someone stated earlier that many of the weeks were fixed units so resale must have priority for the deeded units they own.

And why is it fair that a resale owner paying $15k a year($5k/week) in MF would get lower priority than a DP owner paying $2000/year equivalent in DPs to stay there? Who is really paying the bills at this resort?

For float weeks, this would constitute a further devaluation to the original owner who would not be able to sell their weeks. Would you pay anything to get last in line priority while paying $5k/week in MF? As it is there is a limited population that can afford to pay cash for a TS and pay $15k/year (and rising).

MVC cannot afford to deedback everything. And if they could, there would not be a sufficient stream of buyers to fulfill the demand - especially now with the economy on the brink.
So they would drop these units into the trust to pass along the cost and your DP MF would skyrocket.

Just to be clear, here at the Ritz St Thomas, where owners paid often 6 figures for their units and have $15K MFs, I strongly believe they should be given priority. I have a different opinion for the regular resale timeshare owners. The only product MVC sells now are DPs. DPs should be given priority or at least be equivalent to weeks owners. It is really unfair to sell points for $15 pp (can get into 6 figures) and then they find out they are second class citizens especially when resale owners paid pennies on the dollar. This is my opinion.

I bought my Spain week direct from MVC and enrolled my Ko Olina week. It was not cheap. I also paid that high junk fee to buy trust points to be in the MVC orbit. I really think DP owners in the MVC world should have priority over resale weeks owners outside the MVC world. Just my opinion.

I suspect MVC is following this philosophy because when I stay at an MVC, they give me the best units. They set my expectations very high. Even at Marbella in Spain, they assigned me a seafront 3 BR. It was incredible. I own a Gold 1BR there with no view but I was just lucky with the room assignment. They acknowledge my ownership level everywhere I stay, even here at the Ritz Carlton

 

[TravelTime]

I forgot to mention she is renting out unused weeks for $7K a week.

 

[TravelTime]

I also think $8K for three weeks is a great deal (recognizing that the MFs are high). I’ve thought about buying a fractional because I would like the two winter weeks but I would always eat the summer week. I also like the Suites because they have terrific balconies, and the smaller kitchen doesn’t bother me. The low floor does mean a compromised view plane, but we stayed in a 2nd floor 3BR Villa in 2015 and had a compromised view plane.

I do love this property and if it was easier to get to, we would be there all the time. However, we purchased a points generator in Aruba that basically functions as an EOY 2 week trip to wherever in the Caribbean we want to go with points with Ritz STT at the top top of the list.

I am very happy Lady Lynsey is back. The original was destroyed in the 2017 hurricanes and good news that a new LL is in place. I was also surprised by the renovations to the hotel — they built a lot of new hotel units on the former open space below the reception building.

Finally, they did close the restaurant on the top of Building 6 — we don’t really care about the free breakfast but it was a great dinner spot (stunning view if you had a window table, with open window) and we were there several times in 2019.

Enjoy your trip!

Best,

Greg

Funny thing is I now like the 2BR suites even on the first floor. I do not know if you read my more recent comments. Even the buildings with the 2BR suites on the first floors have ocean views through the trees. In the 2BR suite building next to us, first floor is equivalent to 3rd floor in our building. In the regular 2 BR suites, some of the lower floors have no view at all.

The small kitchen does not bother us at all. We are buying groceries at Moe’s and eating well in our unit. Given what I know now, I would pick the 2BR suites for sure. The balconies for the 2BR suites are larger and we eat dinner on the balconies.

This is turning out to be any amazing trip between RC services, the views through the trees (which I love now that I am used to it) and all the excursions we are taking. I wonder if I should update my original post since @SueDonJ is right that I was too critical on day 1.

 

[SueDonJ]

Just to be clear, here at the Ritz St Thomas, where owners paid often 6 figures for their units and have $15K MFs, I strongly believe they should be given priority. I have a different opinion for the regular resale timeshare owners. The only product MVC sells now are DPs. DPs should be given priority or at least be equivalent to weeks owners. It is really unfair to sell points for $15 pp (can get into 6 figures) and then they find out they are second class citizens especially when resale owners paid pennies on the dollar. This is my opinion.

I bought my Spain week direct from MVC and enrolled my Ko Olina week. It was not cheap. I also paid that high junk fee to buy trust points to be in the MVC orbit. I really think DP owners in the MVC world should have priority over resale weeks owners outside the MVC world. Just my opinion.

I suspect MVC is following this philosophy because when I stay at an MVC, they give me the best units. They set my expectations very high. Even at Marbella in Spain, they assigned me a seafront 3 BR. It was incredible. I own a Gold 1BR there with no view but I was just lucky with the room assignment. They acknowledge my ownership level everywhere I stay, even here at the Ritz Carlton

I think your past history with good placements is more a result of good fortune than MVC prioritizing placements the way you think they should be prioritized, and I don't think I'm alone based on only the original responses to your first (unedited) post in this thread. Add in the many similar prior TUG threads over years and there shouldn't be any doubt. But no matter, you've now learned the lesson that any placement disappointments can be remedied by bullying the resort staff into appeasing your expectations, so I'm guessing you're just not ever again going to allow them to treat you the same as any other owner/member.

 

[TravelTime]

I think your past history with good placements is more a result of good fortune than MVC prioritizing placements the way you think they should be prioritized, and I don't think I'm alone based on only the original responses to your first (unedited) post in this thread. Add in the many similar prior TUG threads over years and there shouldn't be any doubt. But no matter, you've now learned the lesson that any placement disappointments can be remedied by bullying the resort staff into appeasing your expectations, so I'm guessing you're just not ever again going to allow them to treat you the same as any other owner/member.

Bulllying is a strong word. I think a more appropriate word is asking. I re-read my original posts and I expressed dissatisfaction but I do not see anything I said or wrote that implies bullying. I think some Tuggers are getting triggered by my request and the fact they gave me something only slightly better.

I have NOT learned that placements should be remedied by complaining or asking for a new room. As @Dean said, I have learned to lower my expectations and then be happy with whatever I got. That is a good lesson.

The next day when she called, I almost said no, keep me where I am. She stressed we should move up a level and she was “selling” the new room to me. It is no different than making a request beforehand, except I was here already. In the end, I never got what I asked for (before or after being here) but I am happy now with what I got.

 

[SueDonJ]

Bulllying is a strong word. I think a more appropriate word is asking. I re-read my original posts and I expressed dissatisfaction but I do not see anything I said or wrote that implies bullying. I think some Tuggers are getting triggered by my request and the fact they gave me something only slightly better.

I have NOT learned that placements should be reminded by complaining or asking for a new room. As @Dean said, I have learned to lower my expectations and then be happy with whatever I got. That is a good lesson.

The next day when she called, I almost said no, keep me where I am. She stressed we should move up a level and she was “selling” the new room to me. It is no different than making a request beforehand, except I was here already. In the end, I never got what I asked for (before and after being here) but I am happy now with what I got.

I'm curious about one thing - did they ask you to edit your post here to reflect that they were willing to work with you after they saw your highly critical post? I'm asking because it's not unheard of for companies to have done that with other highly-charged TUG threads. That's mostly been with certain Mexico resorts or certain timeshare resellers, though, not nearly as often with Marriott concerns, but I'm curious just the same.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Just to be clear, here at the Ritz St Thomas, where owners paid often 6 figures for their units and have $15K MFs, I strongly believe they should be given priority. I have a different opinion for the regular resale timeshare owners. The only product MVC sells now are DPs. DPs should be given priority or at least be equivalent to weeks owners. It is really unfair to sell points for $15 pp (can get into 6 figures) and then they find out they are second class citizens especially when resale owners paid pennies on the dollar. This is my opinion.

I bought my Spain week direct from MVC and enrolled my Ko Olina week. It was not cheap. I also paid that high junk fee to buy trust points to be in the MVC orbit. I really think DP owners in the MVC world should have priority over resale weeks owners outside the MVC world. Just my opinion.

I suspect MVC is following this philosophy because when I stay at an MVC, they give me the best units. They set my expectations very high. Even at Marbella in Spain, they assigned me a seafront 3 BR. It was incredible. I own a Gold 1BR there with no view but I was just lucky with the room assignment. They acknowledge my ownership level everywhere I stay, even here at the Ritz Carlton

You do realize that with $15k MF/year that's $75k in only 5 years and $150k in 10! plus what they paid upfront. This resort also runs the risk of a hurricane assessment which would add significantly to this cost. Between Covid and hurricanes these owners carried this risk of not being able to rent out their units and having to pay the bill. How many MVC owners have put up $150k+ cash? (and how many are arbitraging cheaper deeded requal weeks with lower MF into high end resorts?)

There is nothing stopping DP owners and deeded weeks from renting out their ownership either. At least with DP points you can spread the risk of hurricane cost and inability to use your unit.

 

[TravelTime]

I'm curious about one thing - did they ask you to edit your post here to reflect that they were willing to work with you after they saw your highly critical post? I'm asking because it's not unheard of for companies to have done that with other highly-charged TUG threads. That's mostly been with certain Mexico resorts or certain timeshare resellers, though, not nearly as often with Marriott concerns, but I'm curious just the same.

No they did not seem to be aware of it. I doubt they read TUG.

 

[TravelTime]

You do realize that with $15k MF/year that's $75k in only 5 years and $150k in 10! plus what they paid upfront. This resort also runs the risk of a hurricane assessment which would add significantly to this cost. Between Covid and hurricanes these owners carried this risk of not being able to rent out their units and having to pay the bill. How many MVC owners have put up $150k+ cash? (and how many are arbitraging cheaper deeded requal weeks into higher end resorts?)

There is nothing stopping DP owners and deeded weeks from renting out their ownership either. At least with DP points you can spread the hurricane risk and inability to use your unit.

The owner here said they gave them 3 extra weeks each for the hurricane and Covid. There was no hurricane assessment.

I keep saying owners here should have priority over someone using DPs. Another owner told us MVC still owns something like half the units here. MVC should be able to allow DP owners to bring them some revenue.

Fractionals (in general, not just here) were popular before the 2008 crash. After that, they lost a lot of value. Seems like MVC could not sell all the units here so they are letting DPs owners to stay here.

 

[Dean]

Just to be clear, here at the Ritz St Thomas, where owners paid often 6 figures for their units and have $15K MFs, I strongly believe they should be given priority. I have a different opinion for the regular resale timeshare owners. The only product MVC sells now are DPs. DPs should be given priority or at least be equivalent to weeks owners. It is really unfair to sell points for $15 pp (can get into 6 figures) and then they find out they are second class citizens especially when resale owners paid pennies on the dollar. This is my opinion.

I bought my Spain week direct from MVC and enrolled my Ko Olina week. It was not cheap. I also paid that high junk fee to buy trust points to be in the MVC orbit. I really think DP owners in the MVC world should have priority over resale weeks owners outside the MVC world. Just my opinion.

I suspect MVC is following this philosophy because when I stay at an MVC, they give me the best units. They set my expectations very high. Even at Marbella in Spain, they assigned me a seafront 3 BR. It was incredible. I own a Gold 1BR there with no view but I was just lucky with the room assignment. They acknowledge my ownership level everywhere I stay, even here at the Ritz Carlton

I am not aware of a single resort that gives DP or trust reservations equal footing to owned weeks. I am aware of some that give them priority above other Marriott exchangers and others that place them the same. Since II no longer transmits the owner status to the resorts, I would expect a larger difference between exchange and DP assignments than in the past but even then it's unlikely to make any real difference at a resort and season where most of the units are occupied by owners. To be honest, I always cringe when someone starts talking about how much they paid and wanting special consideration. I don't see any way to make a viable argument that the amount paid should be given a consideration. If so, many of us here would be caught short because we didn't pay nearly as much as a group as many owners have.

 

[TravelTime]

I am not aware of a single resort that gives DP or trust reservations equal footing to owned weeks. I am aware of some that give them priority above other Marriott exchangers and others that place them the same. Since II no longer transmits the owner status to the resorts, I would expect a larger difference between exchange and DP assignments than in the past but even then it's unlikely to make any real difference at a resort and season where most of the units are occupied by owners. To be honest, I always cringe when someone starts talking about how much they paid and wanting special consideration. I don't see any way to make a viable argument that the amount paid should be given a consideration. If so, many of us here would be caught short because we didn't pay nearly as much as a group as many owners have.

I have not heard of someone going to the front desk to brag about how much they paid. I am saying MVC should take that into consideration. Owners here are still complaining about how much they paid. So I guess you could say they are acting “entitled.”

I paid a lot to get all my MVC stuff enrolled. However, I still paid 1/3 of what retail DP owners pay. I am saying retail DP owners should have priority over me. I just do not think resale week owners should have priority since they paid pennies on the dollar. They are not enrolled and MVC knows that.

 

[SueDonJ]

Reading the first post before it was edited reminded me of the one time that I was extremely disappointed with a unit placement - it was our last stay at Barony Beach and true to their rotational system they placed us in a high-floor unit after being in a low-floor unit the previous year. But that stay was to be our last at Barony (because we'd bought our home on HHI that year) and it coincided with a major refurb that was completed in only one of the oceanfront buildings. I explained how much we'd loved owning Barony, that even though we now owned a home just a few miles away we weren't planning on selling because we'd be using it to generate DC Points, and asked if they couldn't find a way to let us enjoy a refurbed unit, any refurbed unit high- or low-floor, while effectively saying "goodbye" to the resort. No dice - they didn't even attempt to make it look as though they were considering my request, they just flat-out said no and asked the next person in line to step forward. Honestly, it was one of the rudest encounters we'd ever had at an MVC resort, maybe surpassed only by the sales vultures at Timber Lodge who were bound and determined to get us to commit to a sales presentation before letting us leave the check-in area. (We won that one.)

That last stay at Barony they were keeping to their stated policy, though, so I walked away without blasting them negatively (and knowing that with Day Pass usage we'd at least continue to enjoy the resort's amenities for years.) Learning that others who do blast Marriott for their policies get routinely rewarded just aggravates me to no end.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

What about resale DP owners that paid $6 all in? Are they classified separately?

Or peeps who bought developer in the 1990/2000's which in today's $ would be pennies on the dollar and received free grandfathered DP enrollment.

Where do you draw the line?

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the upfront costs. MVC is making it up on higher MF for these premium resorts and via requals and other junk fees.

As you can see on the discussions on TUG many resale buyers turn into enrolled. Many resale buyers would never pay developer but they are open to requalifying their property. They are probably paying more than many of the developer purchased grandfathered deeds at older resorts have paid in years. Resale is another door into more customer upgrades while keeping their resorts solvent.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Learning that others who do blast Marriott for their policies get routinely rewarded just aggravates me to no end.

It sounds like you were triggered! I am not sure I read the OP the way you did. I get it though.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I am sure @TravelTime asked nicely. (It never hurts to ask if you are polite about it. If you don't ask, you don't get...)

@SueDonJ I am sorry you were treated so rudely by Barony as an owner. That is unacceptable.