Rewards Devaluation Impact

[Superchief]

I would like to know how the devaluation in Marriott Rewards points has impacted other MVC owners (with point options). I have often exchanged my Royal Palms week in the past for 110,000 points. However, with the point devaluation, I am more likely to exchange it. I have not yet noticed any increase in MVC exchange availability, so I am interested in what other owners are doing. I believe this will also reduce the number of units Marriott would have available to rent, especially in locations like the Marriott World Center property. How has this impacted how you use your MVC timeshare?

 

[dougp26364]

I would like to know how the devaluation in Marriott Rewards points has impacted other MVC owners (with point options). I have often exchanged my Royal Palms week in the past for 110,000 points. However, with the point devaluation, I am more likely to exchange it. I have not yet noticed any increase in MVC exchange availability, so I am interested in what other owners are doing. I believe this will also reduce the number of units Marriott would have available to rent, especially in locations like the Marriott World Center property. How has this impacted how you use your MVC timeshare?

I know we don't plan to give up any of my Marriott weeks for points anytime soon. The devaluation of the points coupled with the increasing MF's has made this a no-go for us. At this point, I'm even debating the value of using the Marriott Rewards card for all our purchases. It could be a better deal for us to use an airline card for FF miles at this point in time.

 

[lovearuba]

I would not even consider it

I have taken points once for my aruba ocean club. 100K points was not worth it. I will either trade with interval and use the unit myself. Even the trading aspect isnt making me too happy. Maintenance fees are so high I am having difficulty letting Intervale take it unless I am sure I can get a comparable unit and an accommodation certificate.

 

[NJMOM2]

I was considering trading my Gold Marriott Harbour Lake for 60,000 points last year. Then I did the math between MF's and fees to trade for points it would cost more to trade for points then to buy the points out right. They raised the number of points you can trade for after we purchased our unit. I am sure they also increased the price since we bought it. Unfortunately I feel like MVC has taken this option away from me and it will never make any sense to trade for points again. We had our one 14 day trip to Hawaii with FF miles for family of 4 with one the incentive points and one trade for points. That will never happen again.

We decided to use our timeshare in November when school is out.

 

[Superchief]

It seems to me that Marriott has now virtually eliminated the only reason to buy from them. The flexibility to exchange for points was a major reason I bought Marriott. There is also no longer any reason to own more weeks than you plan to vacation each year. I hope they realize they need to do something regarding the points awarded for exchange or they will lose significant revenue.

 

[pwrshift]

I have made great use of the trade for points option for many years, and once I got to 6 weeks always traded 2 a year for 220,000 pts - and still do as the MF on those weeks is below $900. We take a fancy European trip, business class and Cat 6+ hotel, every other year so net out at about 440,000 pts to replace what we've used. Still works for us as I always have 4 TS weeks to use (more with split lockoffs).

'Earning' 220,000 pts a year otherwise is pretty tough to do and you can only buy up to 100,000 a couple. Other than the VISA card you need to stay in a $200 a night hotel 55 nights a year to earn 110,000 pts (not counting elite bonus pts). I forecast you'll see a huge increase in the purchase price of MR points in the near future ... even though it went up a couple of years ago. BTW as a single I can only buy 50,000 a year so that route isn't very appealing to me.

Other than having the direct benefit of being able to trade for points due to illness or whatever, when the MF + fee gets to equal the $0.0125 per point I'll probably stop trading for points - so I agree Marriott has to look at the number of points you get for trading in your weeks but because that's fixed in the deeds I doubt any change will be made. For new buyers in a tough economy I think you'll see increasing up-front incentives to buy these days, perhaps like they were back in 2000-2001 when I bought my last 2 week (about $17000 each incl 500,000+ pts).

The airlines have raised FF mile requirements and Marriott has raised the number of points required for air+hotel pkgs -- but it's still a good deal for those who can participate and know how to do it especially if they use them EOY for very special trips incl business class flights. Admittedly, it's getting tougher...but I have great confidence that Marriott will adapt in some way to protect their interests. Hey...I've gained 100% in my MAR stock since March, so not all is bleak.

Interval made a dumb move this last year stopping bonus weeks AC's for Manor Club - so for the first time they didn't get any of my weeks on trade, and it appears that I'm not alone as I don't see any MMC weeks available all summer for the first time ever...I'm using 2 of my 3 this year while the 3rd went for MR points.

Brian

 

[andrea t]

Once I traded my Aruba week for points. The 90,000 in my opinion is not great value, but I needed the points to give me enough for what I needed. I only use points for travel packages that include business class air to Europe. I could never afford to pay cash for 3 bus class, yet its a luxury I too quickly got used to! Everything is changing these days; tougher to accumulate mile, harder to use them, the devaluation of Marrriott points. Will I trade for points again? Maybe, if it means I'll be able to secure those bus class seats.

 

[m61376]

Other than having the direct benefit of being able to trade for points due to illness or whatever, when the MF + fee gets to equal the $0.0125 per point I'll probably stop trading for points - so I agree Marriott has to look at the number of points you get for trading in your weeks but because that's fixed in the deeds I doubt any change will be made. For new buyers in a tough economy I think you'll see increasing up-front incentives to buy these days, perhaps like they were back in 2000-2001 when I bought my last 2 week (about $17000 each incl 500,000+ pts).


Brian

The problem is as MF's approach and in many cases exceed the 1k mark a lot of resorts are there or past that point. I know for my Surf Club week trading for points would cost $.0123 per point and I'd be giving up a valuable week that until this past year commanded 3500-4000K to rent. That's why for us, where we wanted to own, buying direct just didn't make sense. Admittedly, 2 and a half years ago the MF's were a bit less, but still hovered close to the 1K mark. For those resorts where MF's are still in the 800 range and trade for 100k+ points, there may be value in the short term. When you bought (lower prices, much higher up front incentives and annual MF's) I think it made a lot more sense than crunching the numbers today make- at least to me.

I wish I had bought when you did. I agree that back then direct was the way to go.

If Marriott was smart they would do something to compensate for the points being fixed while MF's escalate. A nice bonus for direct purchasers would be to allow them to buy 50K or 100K bonus points when they trade in their week for a special price (perhaps a penny a point). That way, direct purchasers would be compensated more equitably for trading in their week and be able to more easily meet the cost of the devalued travel packages. I could see that as an easy option and as a way to really build buyer support.

 

[PeterS]

I wish Marriott would do one simple thing...

Give me half the points they charge to rent my week through MR.

They are still ahead of the game because as the schedule changes and the amount of points grow that they charge for a week, they only have to up what they offer by half. Besides, the owners are footing all the maintenance costs, shouldn't they at least get half the rent?

If they raise the price they charge for the week 10K, they only have to raise their cost 5K.

Right now, Marriott charges 150,000 for my week and pays me 90K.
(60% (90K) for me and they take 40% (60K) as commission.)

Starting July 16th, the cost for my same week is 40K (30K + 10K for 2 bdrm) x 6 (7-1 free) = 240,000 points.

Marriott will be charging 240,000 points for my week and pay me 90K.
(37.5% (90K) for me and they take 62.5% (150K) as commission. A 150% increase in commission)

Their commission is now more than what what the owner gets!

Lock it in at least at 50/50 and don't make your owners feel taken advantage off.

Make your owners feel like they are partners in this resort and that will go along way to regain some of the loyalty they used to have.

Pete

 

[dioxide45]

From a resale owners point of view the impact hasn't been any better. We had been stashing points for a two week vacatoin using travel packages to Hawaii. Those are now much farther out of reach for us. :annoyed:

 

[Latravel]

It hasn't changed our habits at all. We have more weeks than we can use so I have to trade some weeks for points. Oh well, I guess i'll have to take another european trip next summer.

I don't look too closely at the cost to the penny. I just use what I can, bank some weeks for family and friends, and trade for points or exchange the ones I can't.

 

[Beverley]

I hear you! We usually trade 2 units for points each year, however, this year we will only be trading in one of our units for points.

The unit we will trade is one we bought a long time ago for the express purpose of trading for points each year. It gives 110K a year and has funded many of our trips. Since we bought a fixed week at a time we can never go until I retire, we turn it in for points. All others do not get enough points to make it worthwhile for what we give up.

Beverley

 

[JimIg23]

At this point, I'm even debating the value of using the Marriott Rewards card for all our purchases. It could be a better deal for us to use an airline card for FF miles at this point in time.

DW and I just agreed to stop using our Marriott CC after this trip and use another for our main monthly shopping needs. The more I looked into it the better value our other CC are.

 

[kjd]

Are points worth it?

The question of whether trading for MR points are worth it is a relative one. Since the devaluation there is no question that under most circumstances you will get less. However, I believe it depends upon a person's situation and not a cold calculation of profitability. In some cases, money is not an issue.

If someone uses points for Marriott hotel stays in areas where there are no acceptable timeshares, points can be a great advantage. Especially, without blackout dates. If may allow someone to see their grandchildren more often on holidays. It's not about money.

Another good use is if the traded points are used toward a travel package. Many people cannot accumulate the large number of points it takes to purchase a travel package through normal use of the credit card. It may be the difference between waiting 2-3 years before going on that dream trip overseas.

A few other observations. Moving to an airline credit card might be worse due to the number of planes that are being taken out of service due to economic conditions. This has created a back-up of frequent flyer point requests for many flights. Just ask the people traveling on employee passes. They are in the back of the line. You will be too if you're using a "free" ticket. Even the "red-eyes" are full.

A statement is often made here that anyone can purchase 50,000 points a year and a couple can purchase 100,000. That is true. However it's a hassel due to the fact that both spouses have to have a MR account in their own names. Then you have to make a transfer into one of the accounts from the other. In order to make that really work you probably also have to have two credit card accounts. The cost of the entire approach is more expensive. I think it's ok if the additional points puts you over the top for a travel package but I can't see it as a long term advantage.

There are also times, mostly with multiple Marriott owners, when they can't use a ts in a given year and don't want to deposit it with II. An alternative is turning in the unit for points that can be used anytime rather than losing the time that year. They can always try to rent the ts but that can be a hassel. I'll bet there are plenty of ts owners that are not using their timeshares this year due to the economy.

 

[dioxide45]

A statement is often made here that anyone can purchase 50,000 points a year and a couple can purchase 100,000. That is true. However it's a hassel due to the fact that both spouses have to have a MR account in their own names. Then you have to make a transfer into one of the accounts from the other. In order to make that really work you probably also have to have two credit card accounts. The cost of the entire approach is more expensive. I think it's ok if the additional points puts you over the top for a travel package but I can't see it as a long term advantage.

The problem is that in most cases you can't earn points faster with a single developer timeshare than you can by buying 100K points each year. Most trade for points every other year. If someone has a single timeshare that they trade for 110K points in a two year period, someone who bought points could have 200K points. Most of the people here that amass many points have multiple weeks and trade a couple or more of them each year for points. For a single week owner, the trade for points option really isn't as good as just flat out buying them.

 

[NJMOM2]

Is it still worth purchasing MR points?

I often wonder if it is worth buying the points to use for a travel package. It would cost $2500 over the course of two years to buy 200K points. Add another 30K or so for using the Marriott credit card. Then you have enough for category 1-5 or category 6 hotel with 50K airline miles. When I search to find a hotel to use the rewards certificate at and compare the cost needed to pay for 7 nights at a Category 6 hotel with the added airline expense in it never seems to cost much more than the $2500 that it would have cost for the travel package. Yes it comes out at most $1,000 less. I also like to travel with my kids to I would have to consider the expense of the extra airline tickets or the cost of the extra Marriott rewards needed to get 100K airline miles. Is really worth the hassle of trying to use frequent airline miles and reward points? Am I missing something? Should I be considering purchasing Marriott Rewards points?

 

[kjd]

Use of MR points not the same for everyone

In my opinion the best use of points is to purchase a travel package for overseas travel in business class with two weeks at a cat 6 hotel. That'll probably take about 600,000 points, more or less. It's very difficult for most people to accumulate that amount of points in a reasonable amount of time by charging your groceries and filling your gas tank. Therefore, your realistic option to close the accumulation gap is to either trade your unit for points or purchase points from Marriott. That will turn a $20,000 vacation into one that costs $5-6,000. After a couple of these vacations, you have effectively eliminated the difference between the cost of a direct TS purchase and resale. (Something I don't care to get into at this point)

This does not work for everyone. The best use for your unit it to use it yourself. Another good option is to trade the unit with II for another TS unit somewhere else. The other options such as trading for points, purchasing points, or renting the unit are all less desireable options but could work depending upon someone's situation. That's whats great about timesharing--you have options.

 

[Bill4728]

I wish Marriott would do one simple thing...

Give me half the points they charge to rent my week through MR.

They are still ahead of the game because as the schedule changes and the amount of points grow that they charge for a week, they only have to up what they offer by half. Besides, the owners are footing all the maintenance costs, shouldn't they at least get half the rent?

If they raise the price they charge for the week 10K, they only have to raise their cost 5K.

Right now, Marriott charges 150,000 for my week and pays me 90K.
(60% (90K) for me and they take 40% (60K) as commission.)

Starting July 16th, the cost for my same week is 240,000 points [40K (30K + 10K for 2 bdrm) x 6 (7-1 free) ].

Marriott will be charging 240,000 points for my week and pay me 90K.
(37.5% (90K) for me and they take 62.5% (150K) as commission. A 150% increase in commission)

Their commission is now more than what what the owner gets!

Lock it in at least at 50/50 and don't make your owners feel taken advantage off.

Make your owners feel like they are partners in this resort and that will go along way to regain some of the loyalty they used to have.

Pete

WOW, what a great post!!

Now if only Marriott would listen.

 

[NJMOM2]

Thanks kjd,

As much as I would love to vacation on Marriott Rewards points I guess I'll just save my money up for that wonderful vacation that will cost far less than $20,000. I don't ever see me having 600k points in my account. There are still a lot of wonderful places I can go for less with the money I will save from NOT buying or trading for points. What a shame Marriott has really taken that option away from.

Maybe if they implement a system like PeterS suggested there might be a happier ending!

 

[pwrshift]

If I really really had to take an expensive trip to Europe I do have the option of trading all my weeks into Marriott for about 660,000 MR points one year for a cost of about $6200 (MF & fees). Two years of it would net out at over a million points but no TS stays unless I had some banked with II.

As dioxide says, it's very tough to build that many points in a year in any other way if you don't have the leverage of units to trade...or the advantage of buying pre-construction with 'attractive enough to buy direct' incentive points to get your MR Point bank account started.

Even if you stayed in a $200 a night hotel 55 times this year you'd earn ; about 110,000 pts and spend some $11,000 getting them -- instead of turning in a MMC week that cost you $950 for that year. But you need more than one week to do it all in a reasonable timeframe.

Other than that, it is difficult to work the points system with one or two TS -- although that is the way I started out, trading one in for points EOY -- but I also had the up front incentive points of about 600,000 (for 2 units back then) to get my MR Bank started. Soon after, however, I had 6 weeks (last one purchased in 2001) filling that MR bank to overflowing with incentive points and replenishing points used by trading 2 weeks in each year without fail.

Brian

 

[dioxide45]

As dioxide says, it's very tough to build that many points in a year in any other way if you don't have the leverage of units to trade...or the advantage of buying pre-construction with 'attractive enough to buy direct' incentive points to get your MR Point bank account started.

Brian

I also indicated that I think it is tough as a single week owner to accumulate lots of points. You can buy points and trade for points giving you ~200K in points. Those points don't go far.

I still think the best advice for a new person who just bought a full freight timeshare from Marriott while on vacation is to rescind. Taking the time to research their purchase is cheap. Waiting and not rescinding can be very expensive.

I also think if someone only plans to own one week that buying direct is not a great option. I can accumulate points faster by buying them from Marriott than someone can who can only trade in every other year.

While it is true that you have taken some great European vacations, it required lots of up front points and trading in two weeks a year. That still left you with four weeks to actually use. For a lonely single week owner, once they trade it in for points, it means no vacation. The ~100K points they would get wouldn't go far, and buying an additional 100K still won't get them a decent travel package.

For it to truly work we need the great upfront incentives of days gone by and plenty of weeks to trade in. For many the former doesn't exist and the other is unattainable.

 

[pianodinosaur]

I do not own a Marriott Timeshare, however, I do participate in Marriott Rewards. My use of the Marriott Visa has decreased a great deal since the devaluation and I am much more likely to stay at a Starwood or Hilton Hotel.