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[Response to TUG Ad: Scammer - Sister Vincentia Goeb] [merged]

If your "Peggy" radar didn't go off when you read the email Denise shared, you need to get it re-tuned.

Hey I'm clueless, I'm missing something, I'm naive, I'm not on the fence what-ever. Lets hold the sarcasm and insults, take a breath, and lets talk.

How does a potential scammer/crook/thief open an escrow/closing account with a legitimate well-known nationwide escrow/closing/title (First American Title) company, that requires proof of ID and social security numbers, and proceeds with not only paying the escrow/closing/title company for the escrow fees, closing fees, transfer fees, and title insurance, but also deposits a cashiers check for $2500 into the escrow account, scam the seller who pays nothing and only signs a contract stating their good-faith intent to sell their property and convey title, if the buyer acts in good-faith and completes their part of the transaction. First American Title won't prepare the deed, the deed won't be recorded, and the timeshare won't transfer ownership (at the buyers expense), IF any of the proceeding requirements are not completed. NOTE: If this was thru a PCC escrow/closing company all bets are off and the red flags and sirens go off.

The above is no different than selling any residential or commercial property.

I know you all are jumping up and down saying it looks like a previous scam, and I get that. What I don't get is the answer to my question(s) as stated in my 2nd paragraph? Where's the scam? That's all I'm asking, because apparently I'm missing something.
 
Ron - this is what you are missing - just because the scammer said they are going to use a closing company that has a name that is similar to a reputable escrow service, doesn't make it so.

It would be very easy to send a naive newbie to a look-alike website.

I guarantee you it's a scam.
 
Why would a nun need a timeshare and how would they pay for it???:ponder::hysterical:

Because the person precedes their name with Sister, it doesn't mean that they are a Catholic Nun. Outside of the church, I've heard the term sister used a lot.

I did a Goggle search and surprisingly a nun can own real property:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nun
 
My peggy radar went off and the first thing I thought of was the Judy Boulay response several members including myself received last year. But the OP didn't give enough details in the first few post to be sure. The first thing I thought was at least this seller didn't use the hearing impaired excuse. Then come to find out she did.

My problem was the broker wanted the buyer to go through a different closing agent than the seller wanted. Fair enough but if you have a broker for a high end timeshare you would be contacted by the broker not by the buyer. Why would you be working through a broker and wasting your time contacting TS owners when you will be paying a commission to find the TS? And if you were contacted by a broker you should be able to look that person up, verify the email and his/her real estate licence.

As long as you don't mind wasting your time and don't send any money or give out any information about your bank account you can play along if you like and send the phony check you receive to the AG office along with any info you have but I wouldn't even want to give out my name and address to someone I suspect of some kind of fraud.
 
My peggy radar went off and the first thing I thought of was the Judy Boulay response several members including myself received last year. But the OP didn't give enough details in the first few post to be sure. The first thing I thought was at least this seller didn't use the hearing impaired excuse. Then come to find out she did.

My problem was the broker wanted the buyer to go through a different closing agent than the seller wanted (That's actually normal and should be expected.). Fair enough but if you have a broker for a high end timeshare you would be contacted by the broker not by the buyer. Why would you be working through a broker and wasting your time contacting TS owners when you will be paying a commission to find the TS (The buyer could initiate the transaction, but may feel uncomfortable with the paper work and follow-up. I've seen it before in residential real estate.)? And if you were contacted by a broker you should be able to look that person up, verify the email and his/her real estate licence.

As long as you don't mind wasting your time and don't send any money or give out any information about your bank account (The seller shouldn't have to. If they get asked, say no, turn around, and run) you can play along if you like and send the phony check you receive (the check would be deposited into an escrow account at First American Title, who would require a cashiers check.) to the AG office along with any info you have but I wouldn't even want to give out my name and address to someone (You could proceed with only supplying the information to the title company.) I suspect of some kind of fraud (If they want to bypass, some how, the escrow/title company and send the seller a check, which would be documented on the closing statement, and a DUMB thing to do.).

I had a few comments :zzz:
 
My THEO-ry...

<snip> How does a potential scammer/crook/thief open an escrow/closing account with a legitimate well-known nationwide escrow/closing/title (First American Title) company, that requires proof of ID and social security numbers, and proceeds with not only paying the escrow/closing/title company for the escrow fees, closing fees, transfer fees, and title insurance, but also deposits a cashiers check for $2500 into the escrow account, scam the seller who pays nothing and only signs a contract stating their good-faith intent to sell their property and convey title, if the buyer acts in good-faith and completes their part of the transaction. First American Title won't prepare the deed, the deed won't be recorded, and the timeshare won't transfer ownership (at the buyers expense) <snip> Where's the scam? That's all I'm asking, because apparently I'm missing something.

I've tried to think this through myself, based upon prior closely similar events on TUG with a "Judy Boulay" and then later with a "Frank Tesoro". In both instances, these people (originating IP address was in Egypt)shotgunned separate (but identical) emails to numerous TUG ad posters, all within a day or so of one another. Here's my (admittedly unproven) theory...

1. The closing entity cited has a close, "sound alike" name, but is not actually the real deal (previously it was Chicago Title, this time it's First American Title). That may be the apparent disconnect you're (understandably) struggling with here, but as it turns out things never get quite that far anyhow...

2. Seller pays closing costs and transfer fees, by "wiring" upfront closing money to the "broker" (i.e., not directly to a closing entity). Conveniently, the "broker" does indeed have a valid bank account set up to receive funds on behalf of the "buyer / client". This money may actually be the only scammer "profit" in the whole gig. The legitimate closing company with sound alike name is never actually used or ever otherwise directly involved at all. It's just some orchestrated "name dropping" to help create the illusion of legitimacy.

3. In prior identical attempted scams by "Judy Boulay" and "Frank Tesoro" (it's not known if either is related to the current good "Sister Vincentia Goeb"), there actually was a paper payment check (for $2,500) sent directly to the seller; postmark origin was somewhere out west, if I recall that detail correctly. The check was of course completely bogus, but looked real enough on its' face. Further inquiry revealed that the "dupe" check was a good quality photocopy of one known to have been previously stolen from a bank or credit union somewhere within the U.S. Payee name was then altered for direct "payment" to the would-be seller.

4. No deed ever got prepared, no transaction got as far as requiring proper identification or SSN, no actual transfer of ownership ever took place --- or ever came near to taking place. It would seem that the scam amount was confined to the closing costs being paid in advance by the seller directly to the bogus "broker", to go toward an "escrow" that never actually took place. POOF! Color the "broker" and the money GONE.

It's a bit hard to believe that someone would undertake all these gyrations and gymnastics to scam just a few hundred bucks, but a few hundred bucks multiplied by numerous suckers sellers could add up to real money to someone of modest means located in a foreign country, investing only time (i.e., no money) --- and who clearly can't and won't ever be successfully traced, identified, caught, or prosecuted.

Anyway, that's my "THEO-ry" and I'm reasonably certain that it is indeed correct.
 
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I have received a few inquiries regarding my timeshares listed on TUG from the Sister

The emails simply asked if they were still available. I did respond that they were available. Never heard anything back. Kept looking on TUG to see if anyone else was being contacted by this person. Today, I see this thread.
 
Maybe not at all...

So, based on the original email from the sister, where does "Egypt" come into this?

It might not at all. In prior similar scams, the IP addresses for "Judy Boulay" and "Frank Tesoro", using a (bogus) Chicago Title claim, were specifically traced to Egypt (by a TUG mod). Egypt may or may not be the IP point of origin for the current good "Sister Vincentia Goeb". It was a question, not an assertion....

This time around, our good "Sister Vincentia Goeb" apparently does not actually use the (IP traceable) forums, but confines the communications to (not traceable) direct email with the TUG advertisers.

Would-be scammers may be getting a bit smarter --- but hopefully not any more successful... :shrug:
 
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Because the person precedes their name with Sister, it doesn't mean that they are a Catholic Nun. Outside of the church, I've heard the term sister used a lot.

I did a Goggle search and surprisingly a nun can own real property:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nun

I have only heard "Sister" used in religious connotation and off-slang eg. my sister, sister-friend. Can you give me an example, since I am racking my brain....(Bored and waiting on hold for over 90 minutes:bawl:)

I could read Wikipedia all day...I learn new something every time!!!
 
My THEO-ry...

<snip> How does a potential scammer/crook/thief open an escrow/closing account with a legitimate well-known nationwide escrow/closing/title (First American Title) company, that requires proof of ID and social security numbers, and proceeds with not only paying the escrow/closing/title company for the escrow fees, closing fees, transfer fees, and title insurance, but also deposits a cashiers check for $2500 into the escrow account, scam the seller who pays nothing and only signs a contract stating their good-faith intent to sell their property and convey title, if the buyer acts in good-faith and completes their part of the transaction. First American Title won't prepare the deed, the deed won't be recorded, and the timeshare won't transfer ownership (at the buyers expense) <snip> Where's the scam? That's all I'm asking, because apparently I'm missing something.

I've tried to think this through myself, based upon prior closely similar events on TUG with a "Judy Boulay" and then later with a "Frank Tesoro". In both instances, these people (originating IP address was in Egypt) shotgunned separate (but identical) emails to numerous TUG ad posters, all within a day or so of one another. Here's my (admittedly unproven) theory...

1. The closing entity cited is imprecisely identified with a close, "sound alike" name (previously it was Chicago Title, this time it's First American Title). That may be the disconnect you're (understandably) struggling with here, but as it turns out, things never get that far anyhow; it's just some orchestrated "name dropping" to help create a false illusion of transaction legitimacy.

2. Seller pays the closing costs and transfer fees, by "wiring" that money upfront to the "broker" (i.e., not to the closing entity). Conveniently, the "broker" does indeed have a valid bank account set up to receive funds on behalf of the "buyer / client". This money may actually be the only "profit" in the whole scam.
A legitimate closing company never actually gets involved at all, either directly or indirectly.

3. In prior identical attempted scams by "Judy Boulay" and "Frank Tesoro" (it's not known if either is related to the current good "Sister Vincentia Goeb", there actually was a paper payment check (for $2,500) sent directly to the seller; postmark origin was somewhere out west, if I recall that detail correctly. The check was of course completely bogus, but looked real enough on its' face. Further inquiry revealed that the "dupe" check was a good quality photocopy of one known to have been previously stolen from a bank or credit union within the U.S. --- with the payee name later altered to reflect the name of the would-be seller.

4. No deed ever got prepared, no transaction got as far as requiring any proper identification or SSN, no actual transfer of ownership ever took place. It would seem that the scammed amount was confined to the "closing costs" being paid by the seller directly to the (...ahem) "broker", to be applied to an "escrow" that would never actually take place. POOF! Just color both the (alleged) "broker" and the (real) money GONE.

It's a bit hard to believe that someone would undertake all these gyrations and gymnastics to scam just a few hundred bucks, but a few hundred dollars multiplied by numerous suckers sellers could soon add up to real money to someone of modest means located in a foreign country, with only time (no money) being "invested" --- and who clearly can't (and won't) ever be traced, identified, caught, or prosecuted.

Anyway, that's my "THEO-ry" and I'm reasonably certain that it is indeed correct.
 
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So, based on the original email from the sister, where does "Egypt" come into this?

I have no idea - I didn't bring it up.... ;)
 
Maybe Egypt, maybe Cleveland, maybe Mars...

I have no idea - I didn't bring it up.... ;)

I brought it up, simply and specifically because it was previously conclusively established that "Judy Boulay" and "Frank Tesoro", using a nearly identical approach on TUG, had IP addresses originating in Egypt. I was merely curious if "Sister Vincentia" IP'd back to Egypt as well --- not that it really even matters... :shrug:
 
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additional information: I'm not feeling very good about this. The email is from a person that goes by the name of : Sister XXXX. It's well detailed and well written, detailing steps of the transaction. It's not asking me for any money up from, but stating a cash offer for my timeshare, and saying that the closing will commence within the next few days. Asking me to let them know if this works.



If in doubt get out!





.
 
Hey I'm clueless, I'm missing something, I'm naive, I'm not on the fence what-ever. Lets hold the sarcasm and insults, take a breath, and lets talk.

How does a potential scammer/crook/thief open an escrow/closing account with a legitimate well-known nationwide escrow/closing/title (First American Title) company, that requires proof of ID and social security numbers, and proceeds with not only paying the escrow/closing/title company for the escrow fees, closing fees, transfer fees, and title insurance, but also deposits a cashiers check for $2500 into the escrow account, scam the seller who pays nothing and only signs a contract stating their good-faith intent to sell their property and convey title, if the buyer acts in good-faith and completes their part of the transaction. First American Title won't prepare the deed, the deed won't be recorded, and the timeshare won't transfer ownership (at the buyers expense), IF any of the proceeding requirements are not completed. NOTE: If this was thru a PCC escrow/closing company all bets are off and the red flags and sirens go off.

The above is no different than selling any residential or commercial property.

I know you all are jumping up and down saying it looks like a previous scam, and I get that. What I don't get is the answer to my question(s) as stated in my 2nd paragraph? Where's the scam? That's all I'm asking, because apparently I'm missing something.

Ron, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or to insult you. I use the "Peggy" radar language when it is obvious to me an email response to an ad sounds like the one Denise posted. I get a lot of them on my ads on Craig's List.

When I read the email the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I apologize that it sounded that way.

To answer you question, the scam hasn't surfaced yet. Many of us have seen this show before and we know that there is not really an escrow account set up.

The most likely thing that will happen next is that the good Sister will explain that her broker is out of town and will you accept my deposit which is more than what you want and please send me the excess less a few hundred for your troubles.

The exact details will change but the check you get will turn out to be bogus, probably a copy of a stolen good check. You will have sent good money to her before your bank informs you that the deposit was bad and charges your account.

Again, just to be clear, I wasn't trying to insult you or make fun. It's just a comment I have used.
 
Hey I'm clueless, I'm missing something, I'm naive, I'm not on the fence what-ever. Lets hold the sarcasm and insults, take a breath, and lets talk.

How does a potential scammer/crook/thief open an escrow/closing account with a legitimate well-known nationwide escrow/closing/title (First American Title) company, that requires proof of ID and social security numbers, and proceeds with not only paying the escrow/closing/title company for the escrow fees, closing fees, transfer fees, and title insurance, but also deposits a cashiers check for $2500 into the escrow account, scam the seller who pays nothing and only signs a contract stating their good-faith intent to sell their property and convey title, if the buyer acts in good-faith and completes their part of the transaction. First American Title won't prepare the deed, the deed won't be recorded, and the timeshare won't transfer ownership (at the buyers expense), IF any of the proceeding requirements are not completed. NOTE: If this was thru a PCC escrow/closing company all bets are off and the red flags and sirens go off.

The above is no different than selling any residential or commercial property.

I know you all are jumping up and down saying it looks like a previous scam, and I get that. What I don't get is the answer to my question(s) as stated in my 2nd paragraph? Where's the scam? That's all I'm asking, because apparently I'm missing something.
Try asking the "Sister" to tell you exactly which First American Title office the escrow account is set up and who the escrow officer is. I guarantee the seller will not provide that information. That's because the account doesn't exist. Just because "Sister" says it exists doesn't mean it actually does.
So, based on the original email from the sister, where does "Egypt" come into this?

I am almost dead certain this is our old scammer friend from Egypt; regulars know him as the guy who always:

1. says that he is hearing impaired

2. requires that all correspondence go through his broker

3. requires that only his selected title insurance company be used.

If you know how to trace internet headers on e-mail messages you can deduce where the message is originating, which is how we know the guy is in Egypt. He regularly trolls the TUG classifieds to find people to try to scam.

I played one of these out one time with him, just to see how it proceeded. After reaching agreement on terms he will ask for your contact information so that he can send you a prepayment check - with instructions for you to deposit the check in your account, keep portion of it for down payment and transfer the remainder to the "title company" via Western Union or wire transfer.

If you say that he should just deposit the money to the title company, he will respond that he has bought many timeshares and assure you that it is typical for buyers to make a prepayment direct to sellers.

I also asked to know which office of First American was the one where the account would be set up. Of course he never responded, because that just a ruse. There is no relationship with First American Title.
 
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I've tried to think this through myself, based upon prior closely similar events on TUG with a "Judy Boulay" and then later with a "Frank Tesoro". In both instances, these people (originating IP address was in Egypt)shotgunned separate (but identical) emails to numerous TUG ad posters, all within a day or so of one another. Here's my (admittedly unproven) theory...

1. The closing entity cited has a close, "sound alike" name, but is not actually the real deal (previously it was Chicago Title, this time it's First American Title). That may be the apparent disconnect you're (understandably) struggling with here, but as it turns out things never get quite that far anyhow...

2. Seller pays closing costs and transfer fees, by "wiring" upfront closing money to the "broker" (i.e., not directly to a closing entity). Conveniently, the "broker" does indeed have a valid bank account set up to receive funds on behalf of the "buyer / client". This money may actually be the only scammer "profit" in the whole gig. The legitimate closing company with sound alike name is never actually used or ever otherwise directly involved at all. It's just some orchestrated "name dropping" to help create the illusion of legitimacy.

3. In prior identical attempted scams by "Judy Boulay" and "Frank Tesoro" (it's not known if either is related to the current good "Sister Vincentia Goeb"), there actually was a paper payment check (for $2,500) sent directly to the seller; postmark origin was somewhere out west, if I recall that detail correctly. The check was of course completely bogus, but looked real enough on its' face. Further inquiry revealed that the "dupe" check was a good quality photocopy of one known to have been previously stolen from a bank or credit union somewhere within the U.S. Payee name was then altered for direct "payment" to the would-be seller.

4. No deed ever got prepared, no transaction got as far as requiring proper identification or SSN, no actual transfer of ownership ever took place --- or ever came near to taking place. It would seem that the scam amount was confined to the closing costs being paid in advance by the seller directly to the bogus "broker", to go toward an "escrow" that never actually took place. POOF! Color the "broker" and the money GONE.

It's a bit hard to believe that someone would undertake all these gyrations and gymnastics to scam just a few hundred bucks, but a few hundred bucks multiplied by numerous suckers sellers could add up to real money to someone of modest means located in a foreign country, investing only time (i.e., no money) --- and who clearly can't and won't ever be successfully traced, identified, caught, or prosecuted.

Anyway, that's my "THEO-ry" and I'm reasonably certain that it is indeed correct.


I currently have a buyer for my timeshare. I was going to use the timeshare closing company recommended by TUG, however my buyer has me in a loop. They want to use their broker for the closing. They will be using a company called american title transfer, and the funds will be held in escrow through this company. Buyer will pay closing cost and title tranfer fees and broker fees. I'm fine with this, but wondering if there's any thing I need to watch out for before, sharing any private information to the broker. thanks

But the potential buyer stated that they, the buyer, will pay all of the costs and deposit those funds into escrow. I guess that's why I'm clueless, I don't see were the buyer is requesting the Seller to deposit any funds at any time.
 
But the potential buyer stated that they, the buyer, will pay all of the costs and deposit those funds into escrow. I guess that's why I'm clueless, I don't see were the buyer is requesting the Seller to deposit any funds at any time.

Part of the scam is that they buyer's agent sends a cashier's check for much more than the total price. The seller is then asked to refund the overage via wire transfer. By the time the cashier's check is proven as a fraud, the seller has lost their money and the buyer.
 
Ron, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or to insult you. I use the "Peggy" radar language when it is obvious to me an email response to an ad sounds like the one Denise posted. I get a lot of them on my ads on Craig's List.

When I read the email the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I apologize that it sounded that way.

To answer you question, the scam hasn't surfaced yet. Many of us have seen this show before and we know that there is not really an escrow account set up.

The most likely thing that will happen next is that the good Sister will explain that her broker is out of town and will you accept my deposit which is more than what you want and please send me the excess less a few hundred for your troubles.

The exact details will change but the check you get will turn out to be bogus, probably a copy of a stolen good check. You will have sent good money to her before your bank informs you that the deposit was bad and charges your account.

Again, just to be clear, I wasn't trying to insult you or make fun. It's just a comment I have used.

I wasn't trying to imply that you were. I was just stating a fact that I'm missing a piece to this puzzle. Everybody keeps stating that its a scam (and it still may be) because the Seller will deposit funds into a bogus escrow account. But what I keep reading is that the buyer agrees to to pay all cost, which means that the Seller pays nothing, sends no checks, and it's the buyer that must send a check to the title company. I guess I'm just looking for a reference to where it's states that the Seller fund/pays anything requiring a check to be sent.

Sorry for pushing/questioning the issue. It's my nature. I'll drop it. :wave:
 
Ron - Post 66 explains it in great detail...
 
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I have only heard "Sister" used in religious connotation and off-slang eg. my sister, sister-friend. Can you give me an example, since I am racking my brain....(Bored and waiting on hold for over 90 minutes:bawl:)

I could read Wikipedia all day...I learn new something every time!!!

Besides being used within the Catholic Church, the term sister/nun is also used within the Anglican, Episcopal, Orthodox, Christan(?), Lutheran, Jain, Buddhist, Taoist, and Hindu religions. Sister is also a term widely used within the Black communities.

Boy, isn't Tug educational. :D

OK, I said I'd quit, but I was curious. I Goggled :D
 
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72 Posts Arguing whether a classic 419 Scam Inquiry is legitimate, either they are getting better or some part of the Tug Community is slipping.

It didn't help that the original email did not appear until half way through the thread.

Don't know why Ron98GT can't let go of the fact that even though they mentioned a legitimate title company was proof the were ever going to be part of the transaction.

I put up a link where the same or similar people were issuing the name of Chicago Title often enough that Chicago Title put a disclaimer on their website.
 
.... because the Seller will deposit funds into a bogus escrow account. But what I keep reading is that the buyer agrees to to pay all cost, which means that the Seller pays nothing, sends no checks, and it's the buyer that must send a check to the title company. I guess I'm just looking for a reference to where it's states that the Seller fund/pays anything requiring a check to be sent.

Sorry for pushing/questioning the issue. It's my nature. I'll drop it. :wave:

Please don't drop it until you see it. Others may not see it yet either and this needs to be out in the open.

There is no escrow account for the buyer to deposit money into.

There is no real buyer.

The request for funds from the seller will come in the future or would have but we know the perps are reading this too.

What's nice about TUG is that many people have seen this same thing over and over again and we all try to keep it in the forefront so others will find the threads in a google search.

As Denise says, post #66 lays out what is going to happen before it happens to warn the OP and others of what to watch for.
 
SCAM!!!!

SISTER VINCENTIA GOEB offered to buy my timeshare. I researched her name and there was a person with that name [not theirs!] and the title company was listed on the internet. However, that doesn't mean any of this is true. Now, I just got an email from SISTER VINCENTIA GOEB to send my check for $2400 to Mr. Samual Kaplan for timeshare closing, etc.

I contacted the Attorney General's office and they told me to call Consumer Affairs. After speaking to Consumer Affairs, it seems there is nothing they
can do because these scammers are out of the country, [Nigeria, etc]. So,
if I did send money he said I would be "....out of luck" because there is no way
to go after them.

JUST BEWARE!!!!!!!! I did all the research and still I was scammed. Really!!!!

oh YES ~ because she is hearing impaired, she only wanted to use her broker and was willing to pay for the closing. SCAM!!!! SCAM!!!
 
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I currently have a buyer for my timeshare. I was going to use the timeshare closing company recommended by TUG, however my buyer has me in a loop. They want to use their broker for the closing. They will be using a company called american title transfer, and the funds will be held in escrow through this company. Buyer will pay closing cost and title tranfer fees and broker fees. I'm fine with this, but wondering if there's any thing I need to watch out for before, sharing any private information to the broker. thanks

This is a SCAM ~ American Title is where Sister Vincentia Goeb wanted me to send my money. She only wanted to work with HER broker. I was to send the money to Mr. Samuel Kaplan. THIS IS A SCAM ~ DON'T DO IT!!!!!
 
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