Rescind?

[HuskerATL]

Just to come back to this, I did rescind the Kohala Suites "upgrade" and instead bought several Craigendarroch weeks before the deadline today. Today is the deadline for Scotland properties to count for elite. We will find out if they count for Max. It is interesting because in my mind they fall in two categories; HGVC-branded and Voluntary. If they fall under the "If you made a purchase at an HGV-branded Sales Center after April 4, 2022, you will automatically have access to HGV Max." category or the "Points associated with your voluntary Club membership are not eligible for HGV Max" category, then we won't. Technically, the Scotland office is a HGV-branded sales center but they are also voluntary.

 

[escanoe]

Did you ask them if it included HVC Max? Did any of the paperwork mention it?

At this point, I am okay staying with "HVC Minimum."

If Scotland truly no longer counts for elite status, it may become an even more affordable place to get points.

Just to come back to this, I did rescind the Kohala Suites "upgrade" and instead bought several Craigendarroch weeks before the deadline today. Today is the deadline for Scotland properties to count for elite. We will find out if they count for Max. It is interesting because in my mind they fall in two categories; HGVC-branded and Voluntary. If they fall under the "If you made a purchase at an HGV-branded Sales Center after April 4, 2022, you will automatically have access to HGV Max." category or the "Points associated with your voluntary Club membership are not eligible for HGV Max" category, then we won't. Technically, the Scotland office is a HGV-branded sales center but they are also voluntary.

 

[HuskerATL]

Did you ask them if it included HVC Max? Did any of the paperwork mention it?

At this point, I am okay staying with "HVC Minimum."

If Scotland truly no longer counts for elite status, it may become an even more affordable place to get points.

According to the Scotland office, after today (April 15th), purchasing those properties will not be elite eligible. I just sent a note to Andrew about Max so we will see what he says. My thinking was that if I decided to join Max and this didn't automatically qualify me, then adding in the $7k is still cheaper than the $25k that I would have spent.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The values will hold, just as they do for Vegas, if Scotland is seen as a place for cost-effective points.

I also picked up Scotland plat before the deadline. We already own a retail unit so buying Max for $7k is much better than buying another retail unit.

Our cost per club point without our NYC is now .092.
Blending to add NYC it is .108.

Compared to buying resale Vegas, which we also own, Scotland is so much easier because you don't need to scour for deals on Ebay - they have a list of properties to choose from. It is sold by a rep (legit) and the onsite rep will sell your unit when you are ready to exit. Easy Peasy. Scotland has access to II in addition to RCI (potentially trade for Hyatts, Westins, Marriotts, Disney). Plus, they have a rental office that can rent out your unit for you if you decide you have too many points, need the cash to travel elsewhere, or develop health conditions and cannot use. Cannot do any of this with Vegas resale easily.

Some of the South Florida units may have these benefits too - we just never travel there.

My mantra for buying timeshares is to have cost effective and easy options: Use, Stretch points, Rent, Trade, Exit. Scotland checks the boxes.

In addition, closing costs are much less expensive because it is an RTU. So the deal gets closed after a 2 week cooling off period. No waiting for months from Ebay and deed complications.

If we decide we have too many points we may sell our Vegas and replace with Scotland we just bought because it is much easier and Vegas resale won't qualify for Elite benefits and possibly Max.

 

[HuskerATL]

I just heard back from Andrew in Scotland and here are his thoughts: "There has been a number of very recent changes and would ask you to direct your questions to HGVClub in the US to avoid any misadvice. Answers to questions in connection with HGV Max should also be directed towards HGVClub, what I can say is a Craigendarroch resale purchase will not qualify for HGV Max."

 

[escanoe]

The values will hold, just as they do for Vegas, if Scotland is seen as a place for cost-effective points.

I am going to respectfully disagree with this to a certain extent. It is clear to me between TUG and Facebook publicity that there has been higher demand for the official Scotland resales since they count toward elite status. It stands to reason any demand that existed for that reason will now go away, and the price will fall some.

As long as they present a good mf/point ratio I don't think the value will fall a lot or collapse. But it sure would not surprise me to see it fall in the neighborhood of $500 to $1000 so over the course of the next year. My perception of these units is owning them in the states was perceived to have some risk (beyond the timeshare usual) because of the potential impact of currency fluctuations over time. People, in my mind, were more likely to take on that risk knowing the points would count toward elite status.

One thing about this is it is not theoretical. We shall soon find out.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I am going to respectfully disagree with this to a certain extent. It is clear to me between TUG and Facebook publicity that there has been higher demand for the official Scotland resales since they count toward elite status. It stands to reason any demand that existed for that reason will now go away, and the price will fall some.

As long as they present a good mf/point ratio I don't think the value will fall a lot or collapse. But it sure would not surprise me to see it fall in the neighborhood of $500 to $1000 so over the course of the next year. My perception of these units is owning them in the states was perceived to have some risk (beyond the timeshare usual) because of the potential impact of currency fluctuations over time. People, in my mind, were more likely to take on that risk knowing the points would count toward elite status.

One thing about this is it is not theoretical. We shall soon find out.

I thought you were talking about a massive devaluation. $500 - $1000 is nothing. You cannot lose money you haven't spent! The units are not expensive and are in the range of Vegas platinum old 7k and 4.8k resales.

I will take 50% loss on $2950 for a 1 bdrm ($1500 total loss) which I will more than make up on MF over 10 - 20 years at .092 cents per point. If you assume the average HGV point is .15 then I only need to spend 19,000 Scotland points (1 - 2 reservations) to break-even on this capital loss with lower MFs.

vs.

25% loss on $25k retail ($6260) which would take a very long time to recoup if the points values are not low.

Everything has risk. I know it is not for everyone. The currency risk is one I am willing to take. The convenience and ease of renting it out more than compensates this risk for me because it will likely be rented to people using the local currency which will cover MF and costs at local rates. If current rates spike or a black swan occurs. I will give it away or continue to rent. I didn't spend much in the first place and locals who use the currency will not see the difference. The loss of giving this away is mouse potatoes compared to the devaluation we realized buying a single retail unit. We plan to hold over 20 years so this will be well amortized by then.

IMHO I view Ebay and the delays and risks as something I am not willing to take. The realtors are less risk but will charge a heck of a lot more in closing fees increasing the cost of that "bargain" Vegas resale significantly.

 

[escanoe]

I understand what you're saying.

I was simply saying earlier that after this change related to elite status, Scotland "may become an even more affordable place to get points."

I realize people get taken to the cleaners buying timeshares every day, but to me (just in terms of analyzing a market) if something selling for $5 to $6 k falls in price by $500 to $1k ..... that is noticeable movement.

I never gave a rip about buying Scotland to get elite status, but if it falls to a fair amount below Vegas prices, I would consider buying it for points.

Call me "cheap" but when I am buying a timeshare I would consider a $1,000 difference in price as more than "nothing" and factor it into my considerations.

I thought you were talking about a massive devaluation. $500 - $1000 is nothing. You cannot lose money you haven't spent! The units are not expensive to start with and are in the range of Vegas platinum old 7k and 4.8k resales.

I will take 50% loss on $2950 for a 1 bdrm ($1500 total loss) which I will more than make up on MF over 10 - 20 years.

vs.

25% loss on $25k retail ($6260) which we will never recoup.

Everything has risk. The currency risk is one I am willing to take. The convenience and ease of renting it out more than compensates for this risk for me because it will likely be rented to people using the local currency which will cover MF and costs at local rates.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

My point is that as long as the MF/pp are inexpensive, it will be commensurate with Vegas plat resales. Otherwise, if it falls, people like you will arbitrage, increase demand and pull the prices back up to that level.

Pick your poison with resales: Ebay (legitimacy risk, delays, scouring for deals), Realtor (higher closing costs, deed delays), Scotland (currency risk).

The $1000 premium risk is worth it to me to get Elite status, 10 month reservations and OS discounts/credits. We made an OS reservation recently and realized that we would save $255 on that reservation with elite vs. not having elite. Do that 3 more times and we break-even on any potential capital loss.

 

[dayooper]

My point is that as long as the points are inexpensive, it will be commensurate with Vegas plat resales. Otherwise, if it falls, people like you will arbitrage, increase demand and pull the prices back up to that level.

Pick your poison with resales: Ebay (risk, delays), Realtor (higher closing costs, deed delays), Scotland (currency risk).

I think they will drop a fair amount. The big draw to buying was the purchase went toward Elite status. While those of us here on TUG and a couple of Facebook groups know the benefits of buying in Scotland, most owners do not. Many are wary not only of the currency exchange, but the lack deeds as well. Many also have brought up Scotland in sales presentations and have been told tales of high taxes and special fees when you own. Even my wife is very cautious on buying there. I was ready to pull the trigger on an 8400 point 3 bedroom at Craigendarroch when i could tell she wasn’t comfortable. That’s when we found our Boulevard deed and went with that.

That being said, I would have no problem buying at Scotland and, if the price drops, it would be an even bigger incentive to purchase there.

 

[HuskerATL]

For me, the MFs at Craig are less than Vegas. My Blvd is 0.11 but my Craig are 0.09. right now but, you are right it could change with currency fluctuations.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I don't doubt that it will drop a bit after the loss of Elite. The small premium to get Elite is worth it for us.

I view the international aspect and lack of a deed as a plus. Although we have no intentions of doing so, black swan events can happen. Walking from a foreign country VUI with an RTU will be a heck of a lot easier than walking as a U.S. citizen from a Vegas deed. Just as Canadians have learned about international VUIs, there is low probability of affecting your credit.

I am not advocating this but this is a plus.

 

[dayooper]

I don't doubt that it will drop a bit after the loss of Elite. The small premium to get Elite is worth it for us.

I view the lack of a deed as a plus. Although we have no intentions of doing so, black swan events can happen. Just as Canadians have learned about U.S. and Mexican VUIs, walking from a foreign country VUI with an RTU will be a heck of a lot easier than walking as a U.S. citizen from a Vegas deed, and has low probability of affecting your credit.

I am not advocating this but this is a plus.

Completely agree with all of this. Most owners don’t have the same view point as we do here on TUG. A quick glance at most of the Facebook pages will tell you that.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Completely agree with all of this. Most owners don’t have the same view point as we do here on TUG. A quick glance at most of the Facebook pages will tell you that.

That is why @CPNY so well stated:

TUG is like graduate school for timeshares.

Facebook is High School.

 

[HuskerATL]

Just to add, I reached out to Andrew at Craig this week and the contracts are already in our HGVC site. I am in the cooling off period, so they are shown as New Contracts, but when it is done and I pay for them, those points will be ready to go into our account. That is quick.

 

[Nowaker]

instead bought several Craigendarroch weeks before the deadline today

No Coylumbridge?

my Craig are 0.09

Because Colymbridge is $0.081.

AFAIR, Craigendarroch was also more expensive to acquire than Coylumbridge.

 

[HuskerATL]

No Coylumbridge?



Because Colymbridge is $0.081.

AFAIR, Craigendarroch was also more expensive to acquire than Coylumbridge.

I looked at them but they were more expensive than Craigendarroch. I didn't compare MF but assumed that they would be similar.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Nowaker We are more likely to stay at Craigendarroch so bought there.

There was also a mention on TUG about a year ago that some owners felt concern at Colymbridge that there was not sufficient reserves and an assessment may be implemented to upgrade the units. YMMV I have no idea if that statement is true (I hope not) but didn't have time to read their financials and Craigendarroch didn't have such concerns.

 

[HuskerATL]

Just to add, Craigendarroch ranged from about 1,400 to 5,000 GBP. I bought 38,400 points for $11,762.

 

[dayooper]

Just to add, Craigendarroch ranged from about 1,400 to 5,000 GBP. I bought 38,400 points for $11,762.

Nice buy! That’s 24,000 old points so that’s less $0.49 for elite. Does that include all fees? If so, that’s a freaking steal! Even without fees it’s a great buy.

 

[HuskerATL]

Nice buy! That’s 24,000 old points so that’s less $0.49 for elite. Does that include all fees? If so, that’s a freaking steal! Even without fees it’s a great buy.

That was just the price so add in the 293 GBP /contract to add the points to HGVC, the 162 legal fee, and the 32.50 VAT. I am not sure what other fees yet but so far that is it.

 

[HuskerATL]

Just to add, it was a cheap way to get to Elite Plus or Premier in the new Tiered program coming out. Add those to my existing stuff and we are ready to travel.... Now, if that work stuff would just stop getting in the way.

 

[HuskerATL]

Nice buy! That’s 24,000 old points so that’s less $0.49 for elite. Does that include all fees? If so, that’s a freaking steal! Even without fees it’s a great buy.

And just think, the sales person was trying to get me to pay them $25k to convert my 16,000 Blvd to 15,360 Kohala. With the Scotland purchase, I still have the Blvd but I also will have more MFs. Plus, my Tuscany but I will be looking to dump that. That is the reason for the 38,400 at Scotland... To have Elite Plus (Tier 3 Premier) after I get rid of Tuscany.

 

[GMan82]

I’m just bummed they are closing the loophole about Scotland and Elite status. I was keeping that in my back pocket for later if I ever wanted more points (non-BHC).

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You can still buy more low cost points. Just not get the elite credit. No different than buying resale Vegas.