Resale strategy to minimize annual commitment

[Nahanni]

What would be the best way to stay EOY in a 2BR Prime season for lowest annual cost (using 231,000 points as reference)?

With Wyndham, I understand there are fees (programming, banking, housekeeping, etc) beyond the MF so the comparison of annual 154,000 to EOY 231,000 or other option is not straight forward for a nonowner.

Since Wyndham ownership comes with RCI membership, we are hoping to get an extra vacation or last call in the summer of off years.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[rrlongwell]

What would be the best way to stay EOY in a 2BR Prime season for lowest annual cost (using 231,000 points as reference)?

With Wyndham, I understand there are fees (programming, banking, housekeeping, etc) beyond the MF so the comparison of annual 154,000 to EOY 231,000 or other option is not straight forward for a nonowner.

Since Wyndham ownership comes with RCI membership, we are hoping to get an extra vacation or last call in the summer of off years.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Buy a annual contract for the 154,000 points then use credit pool and combine the points across the years and stay where you want to with some change. If you go for a full week at one time, than the fees should not be to much. 462,000 is three years worth of points. Using 231,000 points as a base, there are 2 of the three use years, leaving one year for a RCI or Wyndham rental or anyone else for that matter. Without checking, I would guess a non-prime week would get you also three weeks at a number of locations. Flexability over the years counts. If you played your cards right, under this system, you could get away with only one credit pool year (that would be year two, divide the credit year year 2 points across years one and three). Buy at a low cost resort that shows up only occassionally on E-Bay. Smokey Mountain or National Harbor would be two examples. At both locations, make sure they are deeded properties. If you want Myrtle Beach or other high demand summer resorts, than you may be looking at a higher maintance fee to get into the locations you want through the Advance Reservation System. By the way, if you are a re-sale owner, you are still a owner.

 

[ronparise]

your cost will be determined by 4 factors,

1. what you pay for your points
2. annual maintenance fees
3. Wyndhams junk fees (housekeeping and transaction fees
4. where you stay and the season

My thoughts on each of the 4

Dont worry too much about what you pay for the points as long as you dont buy directly from Wyndham. This is a one time hit and once paid its behind you forever. You will probably pay more for the more desirable contracts. And in my mind more desirable means low maintenance fees, Canterbury, National Harbor, Smokey Mountains are good examples of low maintenance fee per point properties

If you keep your maintenance fees under $5/1000 points you are dong well. Get under $4/1000 points and you will be doing great

Wyndhams junk fees shouldnt be a problem for you since your plan is only one reservation every 2 years...You get 1 transaction credit for every 77000 points and 1 housekeeping credit for every 1000 points...yore than enough for what you plan. (Housekeeping for a week in a 2 bedroom is 77000 credit)s)

Where you stay and when you stay will make a big difference. I assume you are tied to a school calendar for your vacations plans and you will pay for that... you can save a lot of money looking for the Value Season weeks. But even tied to Prime Season, you can save a lot by vacationing at some of the older resorts, where a 2 bedroom will be about 154000 points

The real problem trying to save money in the Wyndham system is that you cant really vacation on a budget as an owner...even at $4/1000 points your 231000 point vacation will cost you nearly $1000. Dont get me wrong..I think its worth it..I own a bunch of Wyndham points and Im buying more. But you said you are looking for the lowest cost...lowest cost and Wyndham owner are words that probably dont belong in the same sentence

For the lowest cost vacations I would rent from a Wyndham VIP owner that owns more than he can use himself and is just looking to cover his maintenance fees and is willing to pass on his discounts to you

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

One other way to look at it. If you buy (resale of course) 128000 Annual Points, that's around $60 per month. That also includes the $98 "program fee". A Biennial contract is half that, PLUS the $98/yr fee ($98 per membership, not contract). As rrlongwell mentioned, adding the point-per-cost basis, it would be better to buy an annual contract, put all your points in the Credit Pool, then use it EOY. What if you decide a couple years down the road, you want to take another vacation? If you have Biennial (EOY), and you've used your year points, what then? Pay for it out of your pocket.
Another point... buying Biennial, you may not be able to put them into the Credit Pool. So, let's say you buy 256000 EOY Even Years. It may be tricky, but if you don't get them placed in the Credit Pool before/while the transfer is being done, you'll lose all the unused points at the end of your Use Year, and have nothing next year.
So, the best way to do it is to buy an Annual Contract, place all the points in the Credit Pool, and use biennially.

TS

 

[massvacationer]

OP:

One question: Are there any particular Wyndham resorts that you plan to use for your prime-season vacations? I ask, because there are a couple of resorts where having ARP privileges can make sense, if you need to be able to book during prime season.

 

[pacodemountainside]

I am with Ron and John on renting from "mega" ( however you want to define) owner is the lowest cost, no brainer.

Say you buy resale for total cost of $1,000, that will get you rental 200K points or more if Platinum VIP passes through discounts and do cancel and rebook! Use for year one and no MF!

Say you vary number of weeks each year!. Renting what you need, no problem with banking with RCI or credit pool! Just contact renter with what you need.


Also, credit pooling costs $39 and RCI a booking fee! Gottcha!

Remember, e-bay sellers have to get inventory somewhere and I understand it is post card guys that charge you say three years MF or couple grand up front or if a charity require you to make a donation of say $2,500. You can probably get a partial tax write off!

But what happens when you have to sell due to job loss, divorce, poor health, etc. What is it going to cost you to get rid of MF albatross? While we all like to think positive many posts indicate it does happen.

Of course, pregnant question is will the $5.00/ 1,000 rentals evaporate?. I guess, I would say maybe when the condo I bought 5 years ago sells for more than I paid.

Given that Wyndham abhors resale market and time share market is saturated today not likely, but then if one could accurately forecast what the market will do tomorrow we could buy condos, not time shares!

Paco

 

[Nahanni]

Thanks for the comments. No specific home resort in mind but it should be located somewhere we're prepared to use (in case it ever becomes a restriction). National Harbor, Smokey Mountains, Governors Green are low MF locations of interest - aside from individual threads is there a listing of current MFs for other resorts?

Renting is an attractive option but we'd want to work with someone pretty well known - although rare we don't want to show up and find we have no reservation.

 

[Ridewithme38]

If i was looking for the cheapest way to get a 2br Wyndham locations during prime season, it wouldn't be by buying Wyndham...

Heres an Example:
I own a 2br Lock off with a MF of $816 that gets me 53 TPUs in RCI, this year i used 23TPU's to book a 3br at Governors Green for week 34...

$816/53 = $15.40 X 23 TPUs + $189 Exchange Fee + $89 RCI Fee= $632.11

Now, with $4 per 1,000 Wyndham points, this would cost 203,000 points or $812

And my RCI TPU's are kinda expensive

 

[massvacationer]

OP:
I believe that the resorts that you mention have good availability within the Wyndham system at all times, so you really don't need to worry about ARP. (For example: If you wanted to get the best Myrtle beach reservations during the summer, you would want to buy a deed there.)

Look for lowish maintenance fees (Smoky Mountains and National harbor are below average, Govenors Green are average). Kingsgate has pretty good fees as well.

One argument for owning is the availability for Wyndham Resorts is much better within the Wyndham Points system than within RCI. Another argument for owning is the flexibility: you can make three, four and seven night reservations during prime season and pretty much any length of stay during the other seasons....... You can save points by making Sunday through Thursday reservations. You can cancel up to 15 days before the reservation and get all your points back. You can pick up good last minute reservations during this period (15 to 20 days before a desired reservation), when others are canceling. You can bank and borrow points, etc etc........and, even resale owners can get some discounted points reservations as they discount quite a few resorts approx 45 -50 days before check-in

 

[pacodemountainside]

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massvacationer

I am the first to agree one size does not fit all.

For example, after RCI massacre of 1/11/11 there were tons of posts debating which way to go. Not surprisingly, depending on assumptions one could make a case for either booking with Wyndham or using RCI. Of course, if resort is not in Wyndham system or Platinium owner booking red hot week and using cancel and rebook choice is clear.

I do not follow your reasoning above. As far as I can see one booking through a Platinum owner can ask to do any of the things listed. Of course, how much service renter will provide probably is related to size of order and relationship.

I think we all know, one can not book an RCI reservation and then rent for more than exchange fee and rental costs.


There is a great MF calculator going back several years on Wyndham Forum that according to last post here is about to be resurrected.


My primary reason for advocating renting is what does one do if forced to get rid of in a couple of years. If one is in dire financial straits and cannot afford MF then sure cannot afford a couple grand for post card guy or charity to take.


But for discussion sake lets look at a possible scenerio.



Wyndham has only opened a couple new resorts in last couple years. Only thing I know is in pipe line is Cabo, Mexico although they could pull Desert Blue out of mothballs.



So, they run out of Developer inventory, maybe a couple foreclosures.. So Wyndham now starts aggressively buying on resale market and forces prices up, like a rising tide floats all the boats. According to Main Man Wyndham's brick and mortar cost is 22% of selling price. So, if they pay say $500 or a thousand for large contract they are ahead! Of course, have own deedng operation and would not charges selves $299 fee!


But then maybe their WAAM programs takes off.

One has to make their assumptions .

Like stock market, for every buyer there has to be a seller. Each expects to make a buck!

 

[rrlongwell]

For whatever it is worth, a recent Owners Update I attended featured 6 more WAAM properties are coming and next year will bring a major push to get Club Wyndham Plus deeded owners to convert to Club Wyndham Plus members. You main point may very well be true, Wyndham is on the prowel to increase its inventory. If one were a believer in this theory, the buying deeded properties in good or better location in good or better timeframes might be a move worth considering. If other big boys join the fray, then re-sale pricies could top the upper limits of what your post suggested. It would be a high risk operation to play this game.

If one were to buy remaining free or nominal units, total amount of money in the purchase $500 or less. Price goes to $2,000 - $3,000 for the better timeshares, there might be some profit their. Enough to justify the risks? I do not know. The people who bet the Wyndham stock at the lows of a few years ago made out like a bandit.

A recent Owners Update at National Harbor featured that Wyndham is now out of all new construction and will not re-enter that portion of the business, I do not believe this for a minute, I have heard or read suggestions that one or more mothballed projects may be coming back to life. But yes, National Harbor sales is already pushing the concept of an exit from the new developer role by Wyndham.

An earlier Owners Update from a while ago, was pushing as an upcoming feature of Wyndham directly entering the re-sale business and by the time we wanted to sell the unit, they would be in the business. I have not heard anything else of this in any other forum other than just one sales person. Anything is possable, not necessary likely.

 

[massvacationer]

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massvacationer

I am the first to agree one size does not fit all.

I do not follow your reasoning above. As far as I can see one booking through a Platinum owner can ask to do any of the things listed. Of course, how much service renter will provide probably is related to size of order and relationship.

Paco:

Please let me clarify.

I think that renting through a Platinum owner is a sensible approach for many folks.

However, owning does make sense for others- like me.

For example, I like to be able to go online and snag those prime reservations at ten months and I like snagging those cancellations at 15 days out. I have young school age kids, so I need to get those vacation-week and long weekend (MLK, etc) reservations. I like to make several ski reservations at ten months out for different popular weekends and I cancel some as conflicts arise (closer to the travel date). I like the control that I have as an owner. I have a 15-20 year ownership (maybe longer) window, as I foresee time-sharing as the best vacation option until the kids are on their own. I like the budgeting of the monthly billing.

I think renting from a Plat-VIP makes sense for folks that have shorter timeshare ownership windows (limited number of years where they are going to want to use timeshares ahead of them), or folks that always travel during the off-season or to high inventory areas. In these situations they may be able to get some nice discounts from the VIP-Plat owner - and not have to worry about the long-term commitment.