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Rental Weirdness

It doesn't matter what paypal says. If the buyer pay by credit card, they can dispute it with the credit card and get the money back. Paypal will deduct that amount from your account. I have a contract, emails, etc... At first, Paypal would not give the money back to the buyer. When the buyer dispute with credit card, it didn't matter, the money just go back to the buyer... It pisses me off...:(:wall:

It is like talking with a wall...
 
Interesting... What was the dispute over? Was the money still in the Paypal acct. - or had you already taken it out?
 
It doesn't matter what paypal says. If the buyer pay by credit card, they can dispute it with the credit card and get the money back. Paypal will deduct that amount from your account. I have a contract, emails, etc... At first, Paypal would not give the money back to the buyer. When the buyer dispute with credit card, it didn't matter, the money just go back to the buyer... It pisses me off...:(:wall:

It is like talking with a wall...

I happen to own a credit card processing company so please feel free to ask for any clarification. This is how disputes work:
1. The buyer disputes the charge with the card issuing bank (Captial One, BofA, etc.) and provides them any proof or documenation,
2. The card issuing bank then submits that to the card brand (Visa, MC, Amex, Disc, JCB, Diners, etc.),
3. The card brand then contacts the processor of the transaction to notify them of the dispute and to ask for verification and proof of the charge, signed credit card slip, contract, shipping, or whatever else might be available,
4. The processor will then contact the merchant (seller) to ask for this documentation,
5. The merchant provides the documentation to the processor who then forwards it to the card brand,
6. The card brand then makes a determination and forwards the results to the bank and processor who then notify the buyer and merchant (seller),
7. The losing party is able to submit an appeal but these are rarely ever successful.

In this case, the renter or seller becomes the merchant and Paypal is acting as the processor. The renter is acting as the buyer. I have personally dealt with 1000s of these types of disputes and the card brand almost always gets it right. It is very important as both the buyer or merchant (seller) to provide as much information as possible in order to receive the proper determination or decision.

Online or PIN based debit is handled a little differently as are certain charges such as those that are less than $25. I hope that this information is helpful.
 
I happen to own a credit card processing company so please feel free to ask for any clarification. This is how disputes work:
1. The buyer disputes the charge with the card issuing bank (Captial One, BofA, etc.) and provides them any proof or documenation,
2. The card issuing bank then submits that to the card brand (Visa, MC, Amex, Disc, JCB, Diners, etc.),
3. The card brand then contacts the processor of the transaction to notify them of the dispute and to ask for verification and proof of the charge, signed credit card slip, contract, shipping, or whatever else might be available,
4. The processor will then contact the merchant (seller) to ask for this documentation,
5. The merchant provides the documentation to the processor who then forwards it to the card brand,
6. The card brand then makes a determination and forwards the results to the bank and processor who then notify the buyer and merchant (seller),
7. The losing party is able to submit an appeal but these are rarely ever successful.

In this case, the renter or seller becomes the merchant and Paypal is acting as the processor. The renter is acting as the buyer. I have personally dealt with 1000s of these types of disputes and the card brand almost always gets it right. It is very important as both the buyer or merchant (seller) to provide as much information as possible in order to receive the proper determination or decision.

Online or PIN based debit is handled a little differently as are certain charges such as those that are less than $25. I hope that this information is helpful.

First off - aren't you suppose to be vacationing? :p

Thanks for the info - the wife of a work-friend is an attorney for PayPal - if I get a chance - I will try and get claraification for future reference.

In my case - I refunded the potential renter's money back. If it doesn't rent - Robin and I will go this week if we can't change to a week later in the season when it is warmer.. One good thing about owning a TS that you can drive to. besides - WKV is a great resort.

Overall - this sounds like another reason to have a rental contract in place.

A question for myip - if you had a signed rental contract in place and other documentation - then why would the renter (buyer) win this dispute?
 
Interesting... What was the dispute over? Was the money still in the Paypal acct. - or had you already taken it out?

-- No money in the account. It gives me a negative balance. I didn't know about the negative balance until someone pay me in paypal for another item...

What pissed me off, paypal didn't reimburse me the transaction fees. :eek: I lost my transaction fees and the money also pay back to the buyer.

ie: the transaction is $300. I lost total $309 -- something like that.
 
I happen to own a credit card processing company so please feel free to ask for any clarification. This is how disputes work:
1. The buyer disputes the charge with the card issuing bank (Captial One, BofA, etc.) and provides them any proof or documenation,
2. The card issuing bank then submits that to the card brand (Visa, MC, Amex, Disc, JCB, Diners, etc.),
3. The card brand then contacts the processor of the transaction to notify them of the dispute and to ask for verification and proof of the charge, signed credit card slip, contract, shipping, or whatever else might be available,
4. The processor will then contact the merchant (seller) to ask for this documentation,
5. The merchant provides the documentation to the processor who then forwards it to the card brand,
6. The card brand then makes a determination and forwards the results to the bank and processor who then notify the buyer and merchant (seller),
7. The losing party is able to submit an appeal but these are rarely ever successful.

In this case, the renter or seller becomes the merchant and Paypal is acting as the processor. The renter is acting as the buyer. I have personally dealt with 1000s of these types of disputes and the card brand almost always gets it right. It is very important as both the buyer or merchant (seller) to provide as much information as possible in order to receive the proper determination or decision.

Online or PIN based debit is handled a little differently as are certain charges such as those that are less than $25. I hope that this information is helpful.


Here is what happen.

I sold a timeshare on Ebay. Buyer gives deposit of $300.00. Buyer pay in paypal by credit card. One week later the buyer decide not to proceed with the purchase. I refuse to refund $300 since it costs me $100 on Ebay to relist the item. Buyer dispute with paypal. Paypal rules in my favour. (2 months later) with all my documentation.

Suddenly, without any notification, paypal sends an email saying the ruling is over ride by credit card purchase. The buyer disputes with credit card. I never have a change to proof anything with credit card. My paypal account got deduct $300.00 ( I received only $290 only - because of transaction fees). End results, I lost $300 and $10 transaction fees. -- not even include Ebay listing fees.

I am SO MAD. :( -- contacted paypal. They refuse to do anything for me.
 
First off - aren't you suppose to be vacationing? :p

Thanks for the info - the wife of a work-friend is an attorney for PayPal - if I get a chance - I will try and get claraification for future reference.

In my case - I refunded the potential renter's money back. If it doesn't rent - Robin and I will go this week if we can't change to a week later in the season when it is warmer.. One good thing about owning a TS that you can drive to. besides - WKV is a great resort.

Overall - this sounds like another reason to have a rental contract in place.

A question for myip - if you had a signed rental contract in place and other documentation - then why would the renter (buyer) win this dispute?

Paypal never contact me about the dispute with creditcard co till after the facts. I wasn't dealing directly with the credit card company. Paypal never sends me a letter or email regarding the buyer is disputing it on credit card. Paypal already rules in favour of me and refused to give money back to the buyer.

I can't contact the credit card company and dispute on my behalf since paypal is the merchant.

The problem is not the BANK but the PAYPAL. Afterward, I just didn't want to bother to continue on pursue this. It gives me more headache. I don't want to waste time on small claim court.

I hope this make sense.
 
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Paypal never contact me about the dispute with creditcard co till after the facts. I wasn't dealing directly with the credit card company. Paypal never sends me a letter or email regarding the buyer is disputing it on credit card. Paypal already rules in favour of me and refused to give money back to the buyer.

I can't contact the credit card company and dispute on my behalf since paypal is the merchant.

The problem is not the BANK but the PAYPAL. Afterward, I just didn't want to bother to continue on pursue this. It gives me more headache. I don't want to waste time on small claim court.

I hope this make sense.
I think I can follow. Sorry to hear about this.

The problem with TS sales on eBay is that they are non-binding contracts - unless it was clear the the deposit was non-refundable - and a signed document stating this - it would be difficult to counter (please - don't take this wrong - I am not siding with them). This is a good example of why it is good to have a rental contract in place (or purchase agreement) that clearly states the terms and conditions.
 
Also not taking sides, but I think many (most?) states' rescission rights apply to the resale market as well.
 
If a deal go bad, it will go bad. Don't expect too much support from paypal. -- Signed contract only protect yourself from being sued. But if a buyer, renter back up, it is not worth the energy to go after them. The amount of money is not worth it. I also have signed contract and email.
 
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Here is what happen.

I sold a timeshare on Ebay. Buyer gives deposit of $300.00. Buyer pay in paypal by credit card. One week later the buyer decide not to proceed with the purchase. I refuse to refund $300 since it costs me $100 on Ebay to relist the item. Buyer dispute with paypal. Paypal rules in my favour. (2 months later) with all my documentation.

Suddenly, without any notification, paypal sends an email saying the ruling is over ride by credit card purchase. The buyer disputes with credit card. I never have a change to proof anything with credit card. My paypal account got deduct $300.00 ( I received only $290 only - because of transaction fees). End results, I lost $300 and $10 transaction fees. -- not even include Ebay listing fees.

I am SO MAD. :( -- contacted paypal. They refuse to do anything for me.


I would be mad too! It sounds like you did everything right. Paypal did a terrible job as your processor. They obviously did not communicate properly with you or with the card brand. I'm sorry to hear about your experience. With eBay, most people almost have to offer Paypal or there are problems with not getting auctions paid for. Good luck in the future as you are obviously at Paypal's mercy on communicating properly with you.
 
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