RedWeek - owners next steps

[montygz]

At the same time, all Diamond resorts in Florida are still open. Granted, they have closed all of the amenities (pool, hot tub, daily activities, etc...) but the resort and units are still open which meets the requirements of a "living space".

The Florida governor banned vacation rentals but there are many exemptions. For example, a timeshare can be open. However, while it might be legal for an owner to stay there, is it legal for an owner to rent a timeshare unit? That is unclear.

The intent of the law is clear, which is to stop tourists from visiting Florida.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

At the same time, all Diamond resorts in Florida are still open. Granted, they have closed all of the amenities (pool, hot tub, daily activities, etc...) but the resort and units are still open which meets the requirements of a "living space".

Most people who rent at a Resort do so for the benefits of the Pool, Hot Tub, Beach, Daily Activities, etc. So, although the Resort may be open the amenities that a tenant (or owner) expect are not available.

So, would a renter (or owner) want to use it if they don't have access to the amenities due to the Corona Virus situation?

I am not say what is right or what is wrong but just pointing out what one could argue........



.

 

[echino]

Regarding next steps with Redweek. What I would do. Stop working with them. They stole my money. I don't think I can recover it in court, they know it, as they made a calculated choice to screw the owners. I will post about Redweek stealing owners money in Facebook groups and everywhere so that other owners know Redweek cannot be trusted and stop listing with them. I will try go to the media as well. I lost a very significant amount with them and now it leaves me unable to pay my bills. I may well be heading towards bankruptcy because of Redweek.

 

[Cyberc]

I stand by my statement that bottom line refundable or non refundable a landlord must supply a living space period or there is no contract.

Its not as black and white as that even though some would really want to believe that it is.

I read elsewhere that due to a hurricane in FL which made the resort uninhabitable the judge ruled in the favor if the owner as he was not to blame for the hurricane and so wasn't the renter. However the renter should have gotten travelers insurance.

I know that some CFAR will cover due to the current situation - you might also find others that wont.

To me is seems that some renters (not all) want to have the cake and eat it too.

I dont consider myself as old (early forties) I have been traveling since I was around 17 - not one time have I traveled without travelers insurance.

The last time the insurance came in handy was during Irma - family and I stayed at Disney's Grand Floridian and our flights got cancelled so insurances covered 3 extra days at Disneys, meals, new upgraded airfare. The added cost of those days was $6.5K insurance paid up without much problems. They did asked before I bought the airfare why it was so expensive, I told them that either they paid $3.5K in new airfare or they paid an extra 5 days at Disney's plus meals too. Took them 30mins to evaluate and accept the solution.

 

[vol_90]

My next steps were listing 6 Redweek full service rentals this week and receiving a $59.99 credit on each posting as part of 16 cancelled reservations. Time to move on. I still like the platform and will not stop using them unless they go under. Everyone loses with COVID-19 (some way more than others)...…..

 

[sportsfan1]

If I were a renter I would have either taken insurance or lived with the risks. Does it suck, yes, but I would have been the person to sign a rental agreement with the clause that stated "no refunds, no returns". Isn't that easy enough to understand (obviously not for Redweek)?

In many cases, insurance is not covering this event. And I don't care who you are, no one saw this coming. As an owner, I have been happy using Redweek, but I'd never use them as a renter. Many other travel services take a deposit up front with final payment within a month or so of the trip. That's not the case with Redweek. For their full service option, they take full payment up front, charge a fee to the renter, and hold the money in escrow until after check in. Quite frankly, there is a lot at risk for the renter and the owner in that case.
Bottom line is that Redweek is not a great service - it never was great. It just wasn't a huge problem until right now. Both renters and owners have been scammed by this whole thing.

 

[R.J.C.]

Most people who rent at a Resort do so for the benefits of the Pool, Hot Tub, Beach, Daily Activities, etc. So, although the Resort may be open the amenities that a tenant (or owner) expect are not available.

So, would a renter (or owner) want to use it if they don't have access to the amenities due to the Corona Virus situation?

I am not say what is right or what is wrong but just pointing out what one could argue........



.

One can argue many things but unless the amenities are listed in the contract it's moot point.

Granted, ambulance chasers are great at arguing moot points.

 

[theo]

Bottom line is that Redweek is not a great service - it never was great. It just wasn't a huge problem until right now.

I respectfully disagree, at least in part.

Over the past decade, we have used RedWeek only as a advertising site for (pre-virus) rentals of owned weeks when we couldn't use them ourselves for one reason or another. Always successfully, although I never considered (and would never consider in the future) allowing RedWeek to be involved in any other way. I want no RedWeek involvement of any kind in my rentals --- let alone "holding" money and / or independently making arbitrary decisions about refunds, contrary to agreed contract terms and content.

It's a bit of a PITA to handle your own rental details, but clearly more of a pain (with unfortunate and serious financial consequences) to let a bumbling third party like RedWeek arbitrarily (perhaps even unlawfully) simply ignore the terms of lawful contracts and instead just unilaterally make their own arbitrary and capricious decisions involving other people's money --- contrary to contract terms.

 

[cbyrne1174]

Regarding next steps with Redweek. What I would do. Stop working with them. They stole my money. I don't think I can recover it in court, they know it, as they made a calculated choice to screw the owners. I will post about Redweek stealing owners money in Facebook groups and everywhere so that other owners know Redweek cannot be trusted and stop listing with them. I will try go to the media as well. I lost a very significant amount with them and now it leaves me unable to pay my bills. I may well be heading towards bankruptcy because of Redweek.

From what I understand, Timeshare HOAs can only foreclose on your property and send your overdue MF to collections if you have a deeded ownership. If you have a right to use ownership (no deed), then they can levy your assets and garnish wages. Worst case scenario if you only have a deeded ownership is loss of property and your MF sent to collections. If you have to default, default on the deeded ownership 1st.

If that's the case, you're better off just letting the collections sit there for 7 years and never acknowledge it and it will drop off over time. I did that for my apartment when I was 22. The 12 month lease was up and I didn't give them 60 days notice before I vacated because I had planned on moving out when my lease was up, but only gave them a 2 weeks heads up that I wasn't renewing the lease. They said I had to give a 60 day notice, which was complete BS. The complex didn't have full occupancy, so me giving a 60 day notice made no difference to them finding somoene else to rent my unit. They charged me a month and a half of extra rent and I refused to pay it. My credit dropped for about 2 years and went back up after. I couldn't have cared less because I had just financed a new car at 5% and had no intention of buying a house within the next 7 years. As long as you don't need financing for the next 7 years, I say just let it go to foreclosure if you can't pay. Most people who are in the situation that they need to let their timeshare foreclose are already older and don't really need a credit score anymore.

 

[dioxide45]

From what I understand, Timeshare HOAs can only foreclose on your property and send your overdue MF to collections if you have a deeded ownership. If you have a right to use ownership (no deed), then they can levy your assets and garnish wages. Worst case scenario if you only have a deeded ownership is loss of property and your MF sent to collections. If you have to default, default on the deeded ownership 1st.

In order to levy assets and garnish wages, they would have to sue first and obtain judgement. I believe that for many RTUs, they just take away that RTU if you stop paying. At least from a MF perspective. Doubtful they would come after you from a legal standpoint.

 

[sportsfan1]

I respectfully disagree, at least in part.

Over the past decade, we have used RedWeek as an advertising site for (pre-COVID-19) rental of owned weeks when we couldn't use them ourselves for one reason or another. Always successfully, although I never considered (and will never consider in the future) ever allowing RedWeek to be in any way sitting in the middle of any of my rentals, let alone holding money and / or making hasty, arbitrary decisions about cancellations and refunds --- at their own whim and contrary to mutually agreed contract terms and content.

It's a bit of a PITA to handle your own rental details, but clearly more of a pain (with unfortunate and serious financial consequences) to let a third party like RedWeek arbitrarily (and perhaps even unlawfully) simply ignore the terms of lawful contracts and instead just unilaterally make their own arbitrary and capricious decisions involving other people's money --- contrary to contract terms.

Fair...perhaps their full service model is officially dead now.

 

[dioxide45]

Regarding next steps with Redweek. What I would do. Stop working with them. They stole my money. I don't think I can recover it in court, they know it, as they made a calculated choice to screw the owners. I will post about Redweek stealing owners money in Facebook groups and everywhere so that other owners know Redweek cannot be trusted and stop listing with them. I will try go to the media as well. I lost a very significant amount with them and now it leaves me unable to pay my bills. I may well be heading towards bankruptcy because of Redweek.

While I have sympathy for your situation, it seems that you leveraged yourself very heavily on timeshare rentals when in many cases renting timeshare as a commercial operation is also a violation of many resort CC&Rs. It seems you took a lot of risk on by relying on this as a significant stream of income. I know there are probably many others on these boards in similar situations. However, IMO timeshare rentals are simply too risky to rely on in this way. I can understand timeshare rentals if you have an extra week you can't use that you need to rent out. If something drastic happens you could then probably absorb the loss. I talked with many sales reps over the years that said to buy up two or three Aruba weeks, rent them out for enough to cover the MF on all your weeks, "That is what smart owners do" is what they said. IMO, it doesn't look that smart now.

To be fair, there are a lot of companies out there that are highly leveraged that likely won't survive the current situation. Some very large companies. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have made better business decisions over the years. I think it is far too risky to operate timeshare rentals as a commercial operation where you rely on the income to pay the bills. There is far too much change in the industry to rely on anything being able to stay the same for any given period of time. Look at all the locked accounts with Wyndham several years ago. The rules change. Perhaps running it as a side gig can be fun, but you need to have reserves to cover a 100% loss should that occur.

I am not removing culpability of Redweek in this. If people think they have a case against them, then you do have legal recourse. Of course the result of any cases is anyone's guess, but at this point it is really the only recourse.

I am sure that everything going on with Redweek will certainly shrink the size of their operation. Even if they aren't financially ruined by this, I would expect few owners to utilize their Full Service option in the future. Of course renters like the Full Service option and may look at other source to rent through. Fewer transactions through Redweek, means less money coming in, less staff, etc. If Redweek survivives, it means changes to the contracts and this type of situation in the future will always be favored toward the renter and not the owner.

 

[echino]

While I have sympathy for your situation, it seems that you leveraged yourself very heavily on timeshare rentals when in many cases renting timeshare as a commercial operation is also a violation of many resort CC&Rs. It seems you took a lot of risk on by relying on this as a significant stream of income.

I was not relying on rentals before the pandemic. I rented some weeks to pay for other weeks that I used for family vacations. But now when both me and my wife are out of work, this rental income is suddenly our only income to pay bills. Redweek stole that.

 

[pchung6]

I was not relying on rentals before the pandemic. I rented some weeks to pay for other weeks that I used for family vacations. But now when both me and my wife are out of work, this rental income is suddenly our only income to pay bills. Redweek stole that.

Any business has some risks involved. I also have 2 weeks of rental that goes salvage now. . I'm also in the rental business, I have 4 rental properties that are not going to collect any rent until July according to state government's instructions and I can't evict anyone. I probably have to take loss for about a year rental income, while HOA, Insurance, banks and city property tax agencies probably won't give me any relief at all.

So everyone is screwed now. 10 years ago, I learned the lesson from last crisis and have built rainy day fund to cover 1 year of expenses even with zero income. Now I'm still worried this fund may not be enough. So I need to think about alternatives and prepare for these. You probably should apply personal equity loans or home equity credit line now and not use the credit yet, just to prepare for the worst and you have something ready to cover. No one predicts this and we can just try our best to weather this storm.

 

[DanCali]

Regarding next steps with Redweek. What I would do. Stop working with them. They stole my money. I don't think I can recover it in court, they know it, as they made a calculated choice to screw the owners. I will post about Redweek stealing owners money in Facebook groups and everywhere so that other owners know Redweek cannot be trusted and stop listing with them. I will try go to the media as well. I lost a very significant amount with them and now it leaves me unable to pay my bills. I may well be heading towards bankruptcy because of Redweek.

I think a class action lawsuit is pointless - it will take way too long and owners will get nothing.

But I disagree that winning in court is a longshot. I think taking them to small claims court is a viable alternative. Redweek Real Estate is a FL Corporation and the contract states "The sole and exclusive venue for any legal proceedings or disputes relating to this agreement shall be the Circuit Court of the Ninth Judicial Circuit of Florida in Orange County, Florida." As far as I know filing a claim can be done online and fees are reasonable. Showing up in small claims court may involve flight + hotel but if they stripped you of $2000+ it may very well be worth it.

I live in Florida and was planning to do that if they did the same to me but I lucked out... One rental was not disputed and I got paid in full. The other I willingly reached a resolution with the renter and ended up losing 50%.

 

[VacationForever]

I think a class action lawsuit is pointless - it will take way too long and owners will get nothing.

But I disagree that winning in court is a longshot. I think taking them to small claims court is a viable alternative. Redweek Real Estate is a FL Corporation and the contract states "The sole and exclusive venue for any legal proceedings or disputes relating to this agreement shall be the Circuit Court of the Ninth Judicial Circuit of Florida in Orange County, Florida." As far as I know filing a claim can be done online and fees are reasonable. Showing up in small claims court may involve flight + hotel but if they stripped you of $2000+ it may very well be worth it.

I live in Florida and was planning to do that if they did the same to me but I lucked out... One rental was not disputed and I got paid in full. The other I willingly reached a resolution with the renter and ended up losing 50%.

The problem with small claims court is that even when there is a judgment against the other party, it cannot make the other party pay you.

 

[DanCali]

The problem with small claims court is that even when there is a judgment against the other party, it cannot make the other party pay you.

There must be remedies for that - otherwise what is the point of having a court system at all?

 

[VacationForever]

There must be remedies for that - otherwise what is the point of having a court system at all?

Enforcement is the major issue with small claims court when you win the judgment. Civil suit gets expensive. Hence many people don't bother to go to small claims court.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I was not relying on rentals before the pandemic. I rented some weeks to pay for other weeks that I used for family vacations. But now when both me and my wife are out of work, this rental income is suddenly our only income to pay bills. Redweek stole that.

As long as you don't have any other creditors other than your timeshares, you should be fine with unemployment benefits. I haven't lived in Canada since I was a kid, but I remember they had unemployment structured similar to US. I know you guys have higher income, but your property tax is about the same. I just don't see how losing your jobs and having a bunch of timeshares will bankrupt you. As long as your house is paid off and you don't have any unsecured debt other than timeshares, unemployment benefits should cover your food, car insurance, phone bill,internet and property tax.

Take the insurance off the car your not using (only keep the plate active), get rid of cable, go to a low data prepaid plan for your cell phones, put the insurance on the car you are using to the legal minimum and only drive when necessary. Get your produce from food stands, they are cheaper than grocery stores and literally are the exact same quality. Don't buy brand name groceries. I don't know what stores you have, but I only get my food at Aldi's. Their brand is cheaper than Walmart's Great Value and the same quality as name brand. If you need clothes, go to Value Village. Scott toilet paper lasts the longest. If you buy a water filter, you won't have to spend money on drinks. You can learn to drink only tea/water. Iced tea is the cheapest flavored drink you can make. I know Canada is more expensive than FL, but I can live comfortably off $30/week per person for food/cleaning supplies/toiletries. That's how much I personally spend out of habit.

Just stop payments on the timeshares and let them foreclose. If you want them again down the road, Wyndham doesn't collect credit information from you if you buy resale.