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Redlight Cameras (Rant Warning)

Back in 2010, my town threw out red light cameras by voter action. A lot of other California cities did too. Shortly thereafter, it was shown they made a lot of money for the contractor, and some for the city, but didn't do much for safety.

Even before that, anyone who challenged a ticket usually prevailed, because in most cases it's impossible to identify the driver.

Mongoose, I don't see how they can prove an offense if you can't see the red light in the photo. In fact, they need to show the light was red WHEN you entered the intersection, not if you're already "in" the intersection. But hey -- if it was a civil thing, and didn't result in points, I might concede for $75. In California, it was an infraction, carried one license point, and the fine was more like $350 (ten years ago).
 
isisdave said:
Back in 2010, my town threw out red light cameras by voter action. A lot of other California cities did too. Shortly thereafter, it was shown they made a lot of money for the contractor, and some for the city, but didn't do much for safety.

Even before that, anyone who challenged a ticket usually prevailed, because in most cases it's impossible to identify the driver.

Mongoose, I don't see how they can prove an offense if you can't see the red light in the photo. In fact, they need to show the light was red WHEN you entered the intersection, not if you're already "in" the intersection. But hey -- if it was a civil thing, and didn't result in points, I might concede for $75. In California, it was an infraction, carried one license point, and the fine was more like $350 (ten years ago).
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Someone posted a link to an attorney who stated they technically have to serve you for it to be legitimate, but of course, they then charge you for service. I thought about if they would bother to drive 4 hours to serve me, but I'd rather just deal with it and be done with it.

My real point of this thread is on the hypocrisy of the politicians that make law enforcement revenue collectors then complain about the police. The police should be focused on crime prevention and keeping the peace rather than brining in revenue. If they did we would have many fewer negative interactions between law enforcement and citizens.
 
Our town uses cameras to watch traffic, not for tickets.
When we stop at one, I tell passengers not to pick their nose.
"We're on candid camera."

----------------------------
When we see a police car, I say, "Everybody, look normal."

.
 
I just got a "Flash" Friday night about to turn left (waiting to be able to have clear sight around a big SUV in opposing lane-and being super careful b/c it was near a college campus with lots of pedestrians) while the light was YELLOW. I had started my turn on yellow (as I was pulled out into intersection) with a big flash. IT freaked me out--like what??? I turned and never even saw a red light. I was thinking of calling the county on Monday and telling them--the camera is clearly timed before the red light. I guess it could be for the opposing lane?? But I think their light was not red either. Weird thing is, this intersection is not on the list of red light cameras in Fairfax Co, VA.
I read the fine is $50 and doesn't go on your record. So, if it comes, I might just consider it a donation to the county.
 
In most States if you are still in the intersection when the light turns Red the presumption is you had time to stop safely. What is the rush? Why push it. We drive the speed limit. It is so easy to do with Cruise Control.
 
isisdave said:
Back in 2010, my town threw out red light cameras by voter action. A lot of other California cities did too. Shortly thereafter, it was shown they made a lot of money for the contractor, and some for the city, but didn't do much for safety.

Even before that, anyone who challenged a ticket usually prevailed, because in most cases it's impossible to identify the driver.

Mongoose, I don't see how they can prove an offense if you can't see the red light in the photo. In fact, they need to show the light was red WHEN you entered the intersection, not if you're already "in" the intersection. But hey -- if it was a civil thing, and didn't result in points, I might concede for $75. In California, it was an infraction, carried one license point, and the fine was more like $350 (ten years ago).
Click to expand...
Rant on because I disliked Red light cameras.
 
geist1223 said:
In most States if you are still in the intersection when the light turns Red the presumption is you had time to stop safely. What is the rush? Why push it. We drive the speed limit. It is so easy to do with Cruise Control.
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Well for one thing they are commonly controlled by private companies with a profit motive and I wasn’t provided any evidence that I or the two cars next to be actually ran a red light.
 
Mongoose said:
Well for one thing they are commonly controlled by private companies with a profit motive and I wasn’t provided any evidence that I or the two cars next to be actually ran a red light.
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Plus, these Redlight Camera are located in the highest traffic areas in a city. These private companies are making a huge profit. IMHO.

I would liked to see a detail traffic report of Redlight Camers for any city using these cameras for a two years period.
 
VacationForever said:
I don't mind red light cameras at all since I don't run them. I am guilty of looking out for traffic police when we have long road trips.
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When revenue is at stake you simply can't assume good intentions. There are tons of stories of abuse, fraud and even bribery.

This Man Figured Out The Red Light Camera Scam And Decide To Break Them | Bored Panda

Former CEO Sentenced for Bribery and Fraud Scheme Involving Red Light Camera Contracts in Ohio | OPA | Department of Justice

Transportation Official Sentenced in Red-Light Camera Corruption Case — FBI
 
I have been tagged in the past by photo radar. Wasn't happy about it, but I was speeding.

My perspective is swimming against the tide on this one. Don't be racing the lights and you will not have a problem. We all think these cameras are unreasonable, until it is your son, mother, partner that gets t-boned by that guy who ran a red light in the SUV. We are all that guy/gal driving the truck/suv/minivan who runs the red light.

People get killed at intersections.

I am not a perfect driver by any stretch, but as I age I have gotten slightly wiser (not quite wise yet). I now drive closer to the speed limit and am more reserved regarding that yellow light.
 
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Red light cameras are un-American. A person, not a vehicle, commits a traffic offense. Fining owners is just wrong. This is a totalitarian police state measure.

There is also the issue of reliability. A North Carolina legislator cited the example of one of his constituents who got a red light camera ticket in the mail from a town she had never been in during her life. On the day she (or really her car) was accused of running the red light, she documented that she was in intensive care in the hospital in Las Vegas and her car was in the hospital parking deck in Las Vegas.

There was also an incident one of the morning radio DJ's here commented on in the UK with a speed camera. A guy got a ticket for doing over 500 miles an hour. He wrote the ticket authority that this could not possibly be true because he drove an old Toyota, not a jumbo jet. They replied that if the camera said so, it had to be true and he had to pay up.

I had a colleague when I was working in eastern Europe who had mentioned the UK's speed cameras to one of his friends who had been travelling there in a rental car and had a rather heavy foot. The friend had not known about speed cameras, and was told by my colleague that if there were any tickets, they would be sent to his rental car company which would charge them, along with a hefty fee for the trouble to the credit card he rented the car with. So he went to the bank and cancelled that credit card before any such charges could hit.

I always appreciated when I was driving in the UK the ability to buy map books that showed where all the speed cameras were located.
 
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Carolinian said:
Red light cameras are un-American. A person, not a vehicle, commits a traffic offense. Fining owners is just wrong. This is a totalitarian police state measure.

There is also the issue of reliability. A North Carolina legislator cited the example of one of his constituents who got a red light camera ticket in the mail from a town she had never been in during her life. On the day she (or really her car) was accused of running the red light, she documented that she was in intensive care in the hospital in Las Vegas and her car was in the hospital parking deck in Las Vegas.

There was also an incident one of the morning radio DJ's here commented on in the UK with a speed camera. A guy got a ticket for doing over 500 miles an hour. He wrote the ticket authority that this could not possibly be true because he drove an old Toyota, not a jumbo jet. They replied that if the camera said so, it had to be true and he had to pay up.

I had a colleague when I was working in eastern Europe who had mentioned the UK's speed cameras to one of his friends who had been travelling there in a rental car and had a rather heavy foot. The friend had not known about speed cameras, and was told by my colleague that if there were any tickets, they would be sent to his rental car company which would charge them, along with a hefty fee for the trouble to the credit card he rented the car with. So he went to the bank and cancelled that credit card before any such charges could hit.

I always appreciated when I was driving in the UK the ability to buy map books that showed where all the speed cameras were located.
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It's more about revenue generation for municipalities (taxes !) than a "totalitarian police state".
GPS systems like Waze also show speed cameras at intersections.
 
In Alberta they put signs up ahead of intersections warning of the presence of traffic cameras. People still try running the lights.
 
Red Light Cameras have a companion in the City of Chesapeake. Virginia starting today called Public School Speed Radar Cameras.
They are located at all the Middle and High Schools. I pray that they will give warning of the presence of these Speed Radar Cameras.
 
Never been a big fan of revenue enhancing measures like red-light cameras. My son has a vehicle that is still registered in my name (we gave it to him as a hand-me-down when he wrecked a car he had bought from my grandfather who could no longer drive). He has gotten multiple automated civil speeding and red-light violations over the past few years when he was seeing a girl that lived a couple hours away in MD state (which has tons of these devices). He's no longer seeing her - so no recent civil violations thankfully. The violations always come to me since the vehicle is still registered in my name - however the vehicle is insured by him on his own auto-insurance policy.

Apple maps was updated some months ago and when you're using the navigation feature you can enable announcements for red-light camera intersections. I've found this feature really useful especially when I'm driving in an area that I'm not very familiar with (which is oftentimes the case when we are traveling). It announces a red-light camera intersection is ahead and shows you on the map itself. Really handy to know prior to getting to the intersection. I'd imagine other map apps do the same - but I'm an Apple maps guy myself. :cool:
 
Ski-Dad said:
In Alberta they put signs up ahead of intersections warning of the presence of traffic cameras. People still try running the lights.
Click to expand...

Delaware state, where I live, is now required to post these traffic signs at every red-light camera intersection. The signs are there - but they aren't very large signs and unless you know to look for them - they are easy to miss.
 
Let me play devil's advocate for this. As a former police officer, I’ve seen the aftermath of some really devastating and fatal crashes involving those that fail to use caution or simply are not focused on driving at the time. If you're paying attention and not, for any reason, trying to beat the light, why worry? Most tickets issued by the red light camera are now reviewed by police officers first before the citation is sent to the offender, which adds a human judgment variable. Red light violations are, unless for some extenuating circumstances, either you did or you didn't. Unlike the consideration for human error for some traffic violations, cameras don't lie.
 
MdRef said:
Let me play devil's advocate for this. As a former police officer, I’ve seen the aftermath of some really devastating and fatal crashes involving those that fail to use caution or simply are not focused on driving at the time. If you're paying attention and not, for any reason, trying to beat the light, why worry? Most tickets issued by the red light camera are now reviewed by police officers first before the citation is sent to the offender, which adds a human judgment variable. Red light violations are, unless for some extenuating circumstances, either you did or you didn't. Unlike the consideration for human error for some traffic violations, cameras don't lie.
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maybe -- or maybe they do "lie" ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_light_camera

(unless you live in Texas or China)

"China also has red light camera with facial recognition. Red light offender, either pedestrian or motorbikers, are captured by a camera. Within 20 minutes, a facial recognition system identifies personal information including family name, ID number and address which are displayed in the street on an advertising screen. This information can also be published on social media"
 
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China? Don't know and to be honest, don't care. And yes, errors do happen and no technology is not always reliable. I do think they save lives and as I noted earlier, should anyone get one that has a good driving record, go to court. PBJ, no fine and pay a few dollars in court cost. I do say this. When you've seen as many dead, severely mutilated and disfigured human beings as I have over the years, because someone was in a hurry and didn't want to wait, we'll talk. Just don't forget, it's never as bad being on the outside looking in. ;)
 
MdRef said:
China? Don't know and to be honest, don't care. And yes, errors do happen and no technology is not always reliable. I do think they save lives and as I noted earlier, should anyone get one that has a good driving record, go to court. PBJ, no fine and pay a few dollars in court cost. I do say this. When you've seen as many dead, severely mutilated and disfigured human beings as I have over the years, because someone was in a hurry and didn't want to wait, we'll talk. Just don't forget, it's never as bad being on the outside looking in. ;)
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As a former rescue squad member who has seen severely mutilated and disfigured human beings ....

are red light cameras for people's safety or is it really ....... invisible taxation !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_light_camera

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As I get older I become more numb to stupid. Cameras do nothing to prevent accidents, several dozen study’s have proven this. Cameras are a great source of revenue for the owners of the cameras , by the way most are owned by a Swedish company.
 
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