RE: The "Transportation Fee @ Wyndham Bonnet Creek

[Goofyhobbie]

Today a Member of TUG has reported that the member met with the Wyndham Administrative Coordinator at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort specifically to talk about the so-called "Transportation Fee" that is to be charged each "Guest" checking-in to Wyndham Bonnet Creek on or after February 15, 2013.

As we all know, there was no such fee prior to the recent decision of the HOA Board of Directors at Wyndham Bonnet Creek.

Apparently the Shuttle Service to and from Disney World which has been a significant amenity shared by all who vacation at Bonnet Creek is a burden on the HOA at Wyndham Bonnet Creek and we can assume that Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc. is no longer chipping in funds to keep the Shuttle Service running.

The HOA considers the fee a "Transportation Fee" and not an amenity fee.

The Board has chosen to not charge the fee to "owners" of Bonnet Creek points contracts or to "owners" of Club Wyndham Access contracts.

The $12 fee will, however, be charged at check-in, on or after February 15, 2013 when anyone other than the aforementioned "Guests" choose to check-into Wyndham Bonnet Creek as a "Renter," Wyndham Points owner at a home resort other than Bonnet Creek or as a Member of RCI who has used their timeshare interest to Exchange into Wyndham Bonnet Creek.

NOTE: The Fee is Mandatory and will be charged whether or not the Shuttle Service is used by all or any member of a party occupying the Unit being used at Wyndham Bonnet Creek.

Carmen Morrow, a Wyndham employee, is the person that you might consider contacting if you want to get the attention of the Board of Directors of the HOA at Bonnet Creek.

If you choose to contact Ms. Morrow by "snail mail" the address is as follows:

Carmen Morrow, Administrative Coordinator, Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort; 9560 Via Encinas; Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830

If you choose to contact her by phone: (407) 238-3541

If by FAX: (407) 238-3166

If by e-mail: carmen.morrow@wyn.com

The TUG Member who provided this information indicated that the Board of Directors is made up of five (5) individuals. If my information is correct, three (3) of those five individuals are owners of at least one points contract which identifies Wyndham Bonnet Creek as the home resort.

The other two (2) members of the Board of Directors are employed by Wyndham and may or may not own at least one points contract which identifies Wyndham Bonnet Creek as the home resort.

Apparently all who own a contract showing Wyndham Bonnet Creek as the home resort received an e-mail (assuming they had an e-mail address on file) sometime between January 27 and February 1, 2013 informing those owners of the HOA BoD decision regarding the so-called "Transportation Fee" and how it would be applied effective February 15, 2013.

RCI, according to a source at RCI who is in a position to know, has stated that RCI was notified of the change until on or about January 28, 2013.

Note: As of January 31, 2013, RCI had not changed the confirmation information issued to recipients of confirmations at Bonnet Creek. However, as of February 1, 2013 confirmations had been changed to reflect the new charge. The contact at RCI indicated that RCI had not had time to consider fighting the mandatory charge.

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

I stopped reading the expansive thread, as it got way too long. Just to clarify, is it a one-time charge of $12, or is it $12 per day?

TS

 

[staceyeileen]

is there any new information here that's not already in the other thread?

 

[lcml11]

is there any new information here that's not already in the other thread?

Composition of the Bonnet Creek Board. Confirmation that Wyndham Points holders are now second class citizens of Bonnet Creek if they are not Club Wyndham Access and/or a Bonnet Creek deeded owner. A name address and phone number where a complaint can be sent to Bonnet Creek. A emphises on "rentors" apparently being the primary target group along with RCI users and other non Culb Access Wyndham owners.

The most interesting point of this discussion is the different treatment being accorded to Club Wyndham Access owners over other Wyndham System owners.

I guess the next event is the Fairfield Trust meeting. I do not think the trust will intervien. Hopefully, they will think perserving what is left of a unified system is important to them.

 

[scootr5]

I stopped reading the expansive thread, as it got way too long. Just to clarify, is it a one-time charge of $12, or is it $12 per day?

TS

Per day.....

 

[antjmar]

Thanks for the info Goofyhobbie.

I think the BC Owners should contact the HOA. In my opinion this will reduce the value of the BC Deeds. Not to mention that even owners guests will get hit with a fee! Is that fair? They should get rid of the fee for all Wyndham owners, before owners at other resorts tell their HOA to charge “Non Deeded Owner” fees. I hope we aren’t heading in that direction. That would impact almost everyone!

Let’s not forget we all own Wyndham points and already pay fees to be in our “system”. We shouldn’t be double charging each other!

If they don’t want to raise the maintenance fee just get rid of the shuttle or charge per use. At $84 a week extra I think many will consider other resorts in the future. I believe the Disney “Non Owner fee” is $96 per week but you get picked up at airport and into park early. And I am ok with that since I didnt buy Disney! A shuttle at BC isn’t worth this MANDATORY charge.

 

[bnoble]

is the different treatment being accorded to Club Wyndham Access owners over other Wyndham System owners.

It makes a certain amount of sense. Some Bonnet Creek inventory is in the CWA trust. Therefore, every CWA owner owns "a little" of Bonnet Creek because of the way that CWA is structured.

 

[CO skier]

It makes a certain amount of sense. Some Bonnet Creek inventory is in the CWA trust. Therefore, every CWA owner owns "a little" of Bonnet Creek because of the way that CWA is structured.

Club Wyndham Access owners should then only get "a little" bit of a credit against the fee, proportional to the amount of Bonnet Creek inventory in CWA.

The whole idea of a points system is that evey owner owns "a little" of every other resort. CWA is just a mini-version of that concept.

 

[Rent_Share]

Isn't BC the only Non Disney TIMESHARE property inside the complex.

The charge is slighlty less than what DVC charges their renters/exchangers

If you don't want to pay, vote with your feet and pick a property outside of the complex

 

[lcml11]

Isn't BC the only Non Disney property inside the complex.

The charge is slighlty less than what DVC charges their renters/exchangers

If you don't want to pay, vote with your feer and pick a property outside of the complex

Hilton, do not know if their are others.

Highlights


•Within 482-acres of Bonnet Creek Resort & surrounded by Walt Disney World®
•3-acre Florida-style lazy-river pool & world-renowned Waldorf Astoria® Spa
•Award-winning restaurants & championship golf club
•Complimentary transportation to and from the Walt Disney World® resort
•World-class convention center with outstanding conference facilities

 

[timeos2]

I said it when DVC started this costly (to owners/ exchangers) nonsense, again when RCI started to let Manhattan Club get away with a similar unfair and unwarranted charge and now with this one.

If your resort ISN'T one that flaunts the rules of exchange as they were originally established (ie the exchange guest IS the owner with a different last name for the use year) and should be treated as an owner then institute a special charge of your own. It is quite simple. If an exchange guest is coming into your resort from any of the handful of resorts that pull this stunt then impose the " VIP unfair exchange fee". It is $25 to $100+ automatically added to their folio. When they inquire why explain that your owners are outraged that these fees are being charged and as long as they are any guest from those resorts will be assessed the fee from your resort. Calling it VIP should make those guests feel "special"

That, along with all "1's" or whatever the lowest available rating is for the various ranking cards RCI/II send out after an exchange for the resorts charging the unfair fees should eventually get the attention of the HOA. If not they will have owners being charged when they stay away from their home resort and hopefully lose any premium ranking they may have had with RCI/II. Fight back.

 

[Rent_Share]

Hilton, do not know if their are others.

Highlights


•Within 482-acres of Bonnet Creek Resort & surrounded by Walt Disney World®
•3-acre Florida-style lazy-river pool & world-renowned Waldorf Astoria® Spa
•Award-winning restaurants & championship golf club
•Complimentary transportation to and from the Walt Disney World® resort
•World-class convention center with outstanding conference facilities

Isn't that a Hotel franchise, not part of the timeshare division ?

 

[antjmar]

Isn't BC the only Non Disney property inside the complex.

The charge is slighlty less than what DVC charges their renters/exchangers

If you don't want to pay, vote with your feet and pick a property outside of the complex

I agree less people will eventually want to go there.

It is advertised as being on Disney property, but you dont get any of the Disney Perks (extra hour in AM and PM and picked up at airport).

 

[CO skier]

If you don't want to pay, vote with your feet and pick a property outside of the complex

That "defeets" the whole purpose of a points program. People buy into the program to exchange into other resorts in the system. People don't buy into a program with rogue HOAs that charge extra because they think their resort is "special."

If owners of a points system feel they must "stay away" from a resort in the system (for whatever reason), that resort should get the boot from the system.

 

[CO skier]

I agree less people will eventually want to go there.

... and why will the HOA care? They are still getting the maintenance fees from the owners, and the $84/week from the suckers uninformed who do exchange into BC.

 

[siesta]

I agree less people will eventually want to go there.

It is advertised as being on Disney property, but you dont get any of the Disney Perks (extra hour in AM and PM and picked up at airport).

I agree, if I was a BC owner, I would be livid. Many of those sales presentations pushed the fact that you could gift weeks to family, which was a selling point for many. Now their family would be taxed as well. If I am paying for a guest certificate at my home resort, I would expect my guests to be treated like me.

Additionally, as someone who will be sending my nieces and nephews (and ttheir parents of course) to disney in a year or two, I wiill definitely not choose BC anymore. A disney exchange thru rci will cost me the same points, and considering $99 for guest certificates and BC will fleece me for anothher $84, The rci exchange will cost me exchange fee + $50 guest certificate plus $95 disney fee, its only a ~$200 difference to put them on a true disney property with the perks. Well worth it IMO, especially when the kids will love the architecture and experience more, BC and its lazy river can shove it

 

[antjmar]

... and why will the HOA care? They are still getting the maintenance fees from the owners, and the $84/week from the suckers uninformed who do exchange into BC.

If less and less non owners go there eventually they will have to balance the books with owners not just guests.

 

[bnoble]

Isn't BC the only Non Disney property inside the complex.

Technically, the parcel on which BC sits is not inside the Reedy Creek Improvement District (the "government" owned lock stock and barrel by TWDC), though it is landlocked by it on three sides, and I-4 on the forth. So, it "feels like" it is inside the complex, but legally it is not. That parcel also includes a Wyndham hotel in the timeshare cluster, and a separate complex with a Hilton and a Waldorf=Astoria.

http://www.yesterland.com/bonnet.html

There are some hotel properties that are not owned by TWDC that do sit on RCID land. Starwood owns the Swan and Dolphin in the Epcot area. Shades of Green is to the west of the Polynesian and just south of the Grand Floridian, and I believe is owned by the Department of Defense---it is exclusive to current and former military members. Finally, the seven DTD hotels are all on RCID property, but are farther out, past the Downtown Disney entertainment/shopping district.

(Note: it is possible that the land under these hotels is still owned by Disney, but leased to the companies who own/manage each hotel. I'm not sure.)

Then there are the Golden Oak/Four Seasons plots. Golden Oak is a high-end residential community ($1.6M+). Four Seasons is building a hotel, and that might also contain fractional ownerships. Both of these plots were de-annexed from RCID. Likewise, when Celebration was developed, it was also de-annexed from RCID. The only "residents" of RCID are high-level Disney employees, and so the company controls the results of any "election".

 

[CO skier]

If less and less non owners go there eventually they will have to balance the books with owners not just guests.

Bonnet Creek is big, but it is not so big the the rest of the Wyndham system couldn't absorb every owner from BC, and (taken to an extreme) BC sits empty the entire year. Again, why would the HOA care if it did; they still get the MF whether the unit exchanges or sits empty. They would make enough from the BC hotel guests at $12/room/day to pay for the shuttle.

 

[bnoble]

The only "residents" of RCID are high-level Disney employees, and so the company controls the results of any "election".

As an aside, this is also why the Disney hotel Terms & Conditions have the following clause:

Neither I nor any member of my party occupying any resort accommodation have/has any intention of making, and will never make, this resort accommodation a legal domicile or principal dwelling. My/our legal domicile is and shall forever be outside the Walt Disney World Resort.

 

[BocaBum99]

I am not sure how this new fee will impact rentals and/or value of deeds.

I think it will negatively impact rentals at the resort. That's because the tax will reduce the net amount available to the owner for a rental. That will reduce their willingness to offer the rental in the first place. Rental supply should go down. Non-VIP owners will be less likely to offer rentals in the future. Megarenters will have less profit at this resort and focus on other, higher profit opportunities.

Owners who like to stay at BC will be more likely to purchase a deed at BC to avoid the fee. This will increase resale demand and therefore resale pricing.

Wyndham owners who are price sensitive will be more likely to stay at other resorts to avoid the fee. This will reduce reservation demand at the resort.

When all is said and done, this should result in even more availability at the resort. More for extra holidays and outside renters who are willing to pay the premium for an onsite resort with transportation options.

 

[antjmar]

They would make enough from the BC hotel guests at $12/room/day to pay for the shuttle.

The majority of BC is a timeshare not a hotel. I believe of the 7 buildings only 1 is a hotel.
If you really think they are able to sustain the shuttle with just charging hotel guests yet they are charging everyone where is all this extra money going?

 

[tschwa2]

I would think the Mega renters would still reserve the units and charge the same amount disclosing the check in fee. If the unit doesn't rent at the desired price it would be released 14 days or earlier if the owner needs the points to reserve elsewhere. Because of the use year re-alignment you may see less toward the end of the year.

 

[CO skier]

... where is all this extra money going?

That IS the million dollar question and the whole point of this discussion. The HOA will be raking in million(s) more than it takes to operate the shuttle, so why do they need to charge those (Wyndham owners and RCI exchangers) who are just exchanging places with an owner who has paid the maintenance fee?

Charging true renters -- the hotel guests who have no ownership connection -- is more than enough to subsidize the shuttle system that is apparently not all that great of a benefit, anyway. Plus, most hotel guests do not stay for a whole week, so they are not locked into an $84 charge.

 

[Pietin]

I think the BC Owners should contact the HOA. In my opinion this will reduce the value of the BC Deeds. Not to mention that even owners guests will get hit with a fee! Is that fair? They should get rid of the fee for all Wyndham owners, before owners at other resorts tell their HOA to charge “Non Deeded Owner” fees. I hope we aren’t heading in that direction. That would impact almost everyone!

Let’s not forget we all own Wyndham points and already pay fees to be in our “system”. We shouldn’t be double charging each other!

This is the whole point. If HOA get to charge tax on non-owners that are allowed to trade within the system, what else will they be allowed to do? What if the HOA decides that owners are not getting the prime weeks (for argument let’s assume ARP is not a factor) and they if you a non-deeded owner, you must pay $50 a night to reserve in prime season or what if they just say non-deeded owners cannot reserve during prime time. What if they say that resale points can only be used after all retail owners get first pick? What it they say non-deeded owners can only reserve 4 months out so that the deed owners get the rooms they want? What if they say anyone coming in on a guest certificate must attend a sales meeting for them to honor the certificate? You get my point. This is why I think it is such a bad idea, not the cost but the concept of what could happen, if not today certainly tomorrow. To paraphase the Lion King, "in short our system is doomed"