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RCI Weeks to offer value transparency

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As I recall, what you actually have are two weeks that are lock-offs, so that would really be 2 for 2, and in terms of m/f's it would also be 2 for 2. Yes, people in that situation will very likely recombine their lockoffs. However, those with 4 seperate m/f's for 4 seperate weeks, well that is a different kettle of fish altogether.

If I wanted to go anywhere in Hawaii, I would be looking to trade through HTSE, not RCI, anyway.
Yes, he has 2 lockoffs, but the idea still works the same with 4 regular weeks. Maui weeks are available for rent for $1300 each, so 2 weeks would be a total of $2600. Reduce that by $400 to cover your exchange fees, and if you pay mantenance fees of $2200 or less ($550 per week) for your 4 weeks, you're ahead of the game by exchanging. For someone looking for the "once in a lifetime" exchange, trading those 4 weeks would be reasonable. No, it's not something people are going to do every year, but is definitely within the realm of possibilities.
There will also be those who do not want to be tangled up with ''change back'' because they do not want to be bound to RCI for a future transaction. They may want to use their week the following year, rent it, or use a different exchange company. That is one of the reasons I have always prefered clean one for one trades. And most people who buy high season to trade is because that is the type of week they want to trade into.
If you don't want the change, you can always ignore it. Just because you have the change doesn't mean you are require to use it, or to deposit another week.
. . . and some will drink the kool aid and say that RCI is incapable of any wrong.
Please Steve, name one person here who has claimed RCI can do no wrong. Just because we disagree with you on this issue doesn't mean we think they are perfect. If anything, we are the moderates. You think RCI is so evil that you won't consider the possibility that this change might be a good thing.
I think one of the most aggraving aspects of the new exact number system is going to be the trades that are as a practical matter equal trades but have a slightly different exact number. If you are on the short end of that equation, you will either have to buy more points, when that aspect becomes operational (which may be as early as the rollout) but there will likely be a minimum, or you will have to commit to depositing another week to grab just a few more points. That other week then is committed to RCI and you cannot use it, rent it, or trade it with another exchange company. This nickle and diming is one of the things that I despise about an exact number system. Of course if you are on the positive end, you can just throw away the ''change back''. Some will feel obligated to use it, and that means making another week captive of RCI. Clean one for one trades give you a lot more flexibility in the sense of being able to use all your weeks the way you want to use them and not have extra weeks held captive by an exchange company.
If they feel onbligated to use the change, thet's their perogative. That would be a personal decision, not something required or all members.
As I pointed out if you will read my post, it is not so much a problem in being nickled and dimed by very close exact numbers if you are on the high side, because you can indeed throw away the paltry change back. It is the very close exact numbers where you are slightly on the down side. In that situation you have to tie up an entire additional week or buy whatever the minimum amount of additional points (once the point buying aspect is operational) to do the deal. These are the trades that are so close that they really are an even trade, thought the numbers may be very slightly different.
But do we know for a fact that those trades happen even now? We have been told there is tolerance built into the system, but do we know for a fact that people indeed trade up on a numerical basis? Since the numbers will be dynamic, we don't know if that same level of tolerance will be built in or not. I also wonder how much of that tolerance is really just the effect of late deposits. If the you deposit you 45,000 point week one year out, and want to exchange into a 50,000 point week, you still might be able to, if someone deposits it 10 months out (10% discount after 2 months would mean that week is now worth 45,000 points). RCI also could design the system to allow for the tolerance, by assigning a slightly higher number of points at deposit compared to the actual cost to exchange.


While some of us are accused of drinking kool aid by believing RCI (when all else fails, try slurring your opposition), it is hard to resist commenting that the same someone buys into the claim that behind the secret curtain RCI exercises a certain degree of forgiveness with regard to trading power. How do we know that? Wouldn't the prospect of skimming - something which the same person accuses RCI of - give them an incentive to do just the opposite - lie about your trading power in the opposite direction?

This is the accountability within the secret system: You can call up and ask a VC if your trading power is being calculated correctly. They take five and then tell you yes. (I am not saying that they do cheat. On the other hand, it bothers me that if errors are made - and RCI does make errors - you are given no way of showing RCI that they have occurred.)
Exactly. At least with the new system, if you don't like the number, don't deposit. If they change your number, you have something concrete to use a proof. "You game me 20,000 points for my week, and now suddenly I only have 10,000." If it's a matter of suddenly not being qualified for certain exchanges, you can see if either the weeks are no longer in the spacebank, or of the cost went up.
Having paid quite a bit of attention to trading power differences both pre- and post-5/30/09, I get the sense that any "forgiveness" that might have been in the system was eliminated on that date, and is no longer in place.

I could be completely wrong about that, but that's what it looks like to me.
That's what it loos like to me too, but others will of course disagree.
 
Word on the street also states that RCI displaying your week's internal trading power is technically incorrect.

What will be displayed is the encompassing band's upper range limit. :ignore:
 
Please Clarify

Word on the street also states that RCI displaying your week's internal trading power is technically incorrect.

What will be displayed is the encompassing band's upper range limit. :ignore:

Bourne,

I'm not sure I understand. Are you just kidding?

I notice that I qualify for units with slightly greater trading power than my own. For example, I recently deposited a one bedroom, week 31 unit. When I search for vacations through RCI using my week, I can select a 2-bedroom unit in week 31 at my resort. (However, this may be due to extra credit for depositing early.)

Are you saying if my trade value is 26 that RCI will show the upper limit which may be 30, rather than 26?

Does this also mean that if someone selects my week 31 unit, it will cost them 30 points -- the band limit -- rather than the true trading power?

I didn't get this impression when I discussed it with an RCI rep. She stated that we would know our trading value and that we would see the extra points given for depositing early and how the extra points reduces the closer the deposit is made to check-in.

Tom
 
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If that is true then all of the usual suspects who regularly support RCI in whatever will not have what they think they are going to have. Interesting.

This is starting to sound like Delta's ''three tier award system'' where an award ticket can end up being several times the number of miles that is supposed to be the high tier, or in other words, a big crap shoot.


Word on the street also states that RCI displaying your week's internal trading power is technically incorrect.

What will be displayed is the encompassing band's upper range limit. :ignore:
 
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If that is true then all of the usual suspects who regularly support RCI in whatever will not have what they think they are going to have. Interesting.

This is starting to sound like Delta's ''three tier award system'' where an award ticket can end up being several times the number of miles that is supposed to be the high tier, or in other words, a big crap shoot.
Not at all. I expect something where I know exactly what I can exchange into, and why. I expect to know just how much more it will "cost" to trade to something better.

Even if RCI does sell points in order to upgrade, is that any different than what many of the smaller exchange companies do - trade like for like in terms of size, and offer an upgrade for a fee?

Please stop telling us what we want, and what we should want. We know what we want - something where we can choose to deposit or not, based on a reasonable expectation of what we can get as a trade. We also want to know whether we can't get an exchange because we don't qualify, or because it's simply not available. Very simple. If RCI ends up assigning points in bands, that's OK too; granularity could be better, but bands have their advantage too - they're what we're used to already. Bottom line - how many points do I get for my deposit, and what can I get for that many points?
 
Bottom line, I guess, is that RCI can always count on you to be their cheerleader, no matter what they do.

What we should want is a system that is fully transparent. What we thought we would be getting was bad enough with the lack of transparency of how values were set. Now it appears that it may be even more opaque than that and you are still a ''happy''.

Not at all. I expect something where I know exactly what I can exchange into, and why. I expect to know just how much more it will "cost" to trade to something better.

Even if RCI does sell points in order to upgrade, is that any different than what many of the smaller exchange companies do - trade like for like in terms of size, and offer an upgrade for a fee?

Please stop telling us what we want, and what we should want. We know what we want - something where we can choose to deposit or not, based on a reasonable expectation of what we can get as a trade. We also want to know whether we can't get an exchange because we don't qualify, or because it's simply not available. Very simple. If RCI ends up assigning points in bands, that's OK too; granularity could be better, but bands have their advantage too - they're what we're used to already. Bottom line - how many points do I get for my deposit, and what can I get for that many points?
 
We don't have a count

Bottom line, I guess, is that RCI can always count on you to be their cheerleader, no matter what they do.

What we should want is a system that is fully transparent. What we thought we would be getting was bad enough with the lack of transparency of how values were set. Now it appears that it may be even more opaque than that and you are still a ''happy''.

My educated guess is that based on the various threads about this subject is that the "transparency" you want so badly just isn't all that important to the vast majority of RCI members. They do want the ability to know what their week is worth and what the week(s) they want to trade into are valued at. If that is the case then RCI is making a positive move and most members seem to agree.

I don't think there is anything RCI could do that would bring you back to their side now. The timeshare world has changed, things have changed at RCI (for better or worse - there is some of both for certain) and even if the so-called "moles" that you like to base most all your assertions on were in fact correct those things happened 4-5 or more years ago. It's not the same world or RCI as even that small step back in time represents and it sure isn't the world of RCI when it was first founded. Today we have to deal with what we have and not try to go back to things that weren't all that good, but hold nostalgic appeal looked back on with a bit of rose colored lenses.
 
No matter what RCI does, you won't be happy until they are driven out of business.

You want it granular, but if it's too granular, people will lose the ability to trade up. So you don't really want it granular. But when you hear they might have anticipated that need, you're still not happy.

Rather than lament that fact the the system is changing, shouldn't we try to see how we can make the new system work for the members? RCI is changing the system, and we can choose to learn how to benefit from the new system, or we can leave RCI. Your choice to leave is fine, but why don't you allow the rest of us to at least see if the new system is worth staying?

You paint RCI as a huge evil corporation out to take our weeks from us, with little or no compensation. The only way that will happen is if we willingly give them our weeks over and over. If you had your way, RCI would be legislated out of existence. Theirs may not be a perfect exchange systems, but neither are any of the others. We are each free to choose whichever one suits our own needs. I don't see the smaller companies suiting my needs because they don't have the volume. They also don't publish the complete details of how their systems work. You like DAE, and that's great for you, but I don't see how thay treat peak week owners any more fairly than RCI. If you deposit with they you stand in line behind everyone else who placed a request before you, so the only way to get to the front of the line for the best weeks is to requests them as far ahead as possible You want that week in Maui, you had better deposit something 2 years ahead of when you want to go, and use that to request - but that means paying for that vacation 2 years ahead, and knowing your vacation schedule that far ahead. What percentage of RCI members really plan that far out?
 
And Not Only That . . .

No matter what RCI does, you won't be happy until they are driven out of business.
. . . if you don't agree then you get lumped in with the RCI Can Do No Wrong Crowd.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 
I don't want to open up a can of wh....:)

Mel is right on the money. to take an example, we all know a tiger pup 115k level 2 band trader pulls a 1 br Dvc...it does it today not because tiger pups trade value(43) is equal to dvc weeks(49) trade value. It is beacuse it is in the same band/grid.

Like I said before, what is etched in stone is the deposited weeks number. Available weeks move around a bit based on inventory. Not a lot, but a bit. I.e. They normally stay within a band. Yes, things may sneak out if on the edge.

To show single digit granularity is confusing to the regular user. Hence the band value. It eliminates 95% of visual fluctuation. And like Mel pointed out, can I see what I could see before. Yes I can.

It also makes credit management easier.

Like, I said before, I do not see how this can possibly be a bad idea. The big plus is I can see what I could not see before. I can still do what I can do before in terms of trading in or below my grid/band. And should I go under, I get a credit for future use.

And there is always inventory that expires. RCI can potentially make more money as number of trades increase, other parameters of the equation remaining the same.

Disclaimer...this is still not in prod yet...and like they say...things can change till the last minute...
 
The question keeps getting asked "What are the trading power criteria - without that values are worthless".

Here is the answer per RCI Weeks.

This link is part of the overall RCI presentation regarding the new ability of members to see trade values. And it specifically says

"The trading power of your deposit isn’t changing! It has always been there and is used to determine the exchange options available to you, and it still will. The added flexibility is in that now you will SEE the trading power of your deposit, as well as the trading power of available exchange vacations. For a detailed refresher on how we’ve calculated your Deposit Trading Power for the last 35 years, click here."

So as I originally asked when this thread started - how does releasing the information hidden but applied for 35+ years hurt members? To me it does not. It is a long overdue change that benefits members.

Thanks for that link, John! I found this info very enlightening, because I always worried that depositing a week less than 12 months out would hurt the trading power, but it appears that isn't the case. 9 months is okay.

I think my main worry is my studio deposits see about everything there is right now, and I have a feeling that size might matter in the new system. We will soon see.
 
To show single digit granularity is confusing to the regular user. Hence the band value.
Very interesting.

Very.

A coarse-grain model like that could provide a lot of interesting opportunities for folks in point systems that can deposit different sizes/seasons...

Edited to add: it still looks to me as if there are more fine-grained trading values being applied than just six bands right now, though. I'm seeing substantive variations between deposits in the 2-6% range. So, if this band-based scheme comes about, it may well look more like it did for the year or so *pre* 5/30/09, where it looked as though there really were only about six trading levels, period.
 
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I always worried that depositing a week less than 12 months out would hurt the trading power, but it appears that isn't the case. 9 months is okay.
This is a recent change---in the last year or so. It was 12 months prior to that.
 
Very interesting.

Very.

A coarse-grain model like that could provide a lot of interesting opportunities for folks in point systems that can deposit different sizes/seasons...

Edited to add: it still looks to me as if there are more fine-grained trading values being applied than just six bands right now, though. I'm seeing substantive variations between deposits in the 2-6% range. So, if this band-based scheme comes about, it may well look more like it did for the year or so *pre* 5/30/09, where it looked as though there really were only about six trading levels, period.
As soon as the system goes live, we should be able to tell exactly how many bands there are, if that is in fact what they do. We take a good trader, and see what it can trade for at various levels. I would think it would be obvious if this is what they do.

Perhaps every band is separated by 10,000 credits:
We see last minute and very weak traders (deep blue studios) going for 20,000 points
Slightly better week for 30,000
increasingly better weeks for each increment,
until we reach the best of whatever is available for whatever RCI chooses as the top value.

There are 2 issues that could make this interesting:

1 - how the fluctuations of supply/demand and date of deposit influence placement within the bands

2 - how RCI will handle all the outside point system deposits (and perhaps lockoffs too). Will there be an advantage to depositing larger units, or smaller? Will it make any difference?

With bands, if they assign the closest band (so a 44,900 point unit gets 40,000 but a 45,000 rounds up to 50,000) would it be better to deposit that lockoff as a single unit for 89,000 rounded up to 90,000 rather than as 2 units worth 40,000 each? If deposited 1 month earlier and worth 45,000 each it might be better to deposit as 2 units for 50,000 each instead of 90,000 for the combined unit...or will RCI simply assign a value for the full unit based on the individual units.
 
Perhaps every band is separated by 10,000 credits:
The example they give shows 10, 15, 20 and 30. If there are six bands, perhaps the trading values will be 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30. It's hard to know, though, until they roll it out. Maybe some of those who have seen some preliminary information can shed some additional light on things.
 
The bands always existed. They exist in II too...the grids. The number of bands increased back in 5/2009. And trust me, its a huge undertaking. That thing does not get done on a whim. They are not changing anytime soo.

Here is a very tight example. Prez Villas Myrtle 2B July 4 week will put you in the top band if provided 1 year out. Give it two months out and you see a considerable drop. BUT, and the big BUT, once deposited, it has a static value. Its our currency. This is nothing new and we have known it for years. Its just that we will know this currency by a numerical value.

To dumb it down, available weeks also come in with a fixed value. However, its a bottle of bad wine...as it ages, its value decreases. Multiple other factors effect it also with some being bulk banking. This again, is something that we already knew. However, we would be provided its currency value.

THE Big Huge difference is...
1. RCI could not tease us and show Manhattan club 2Br only to not let us pick it up without reason. a.k.a. flood the results but mark them as touch-me-nots. Now you can see what the store is selling. IMHO, that is huge.
2. If I am buying a week with lesser value, its nice to have credit back that I can use later.

In layman's terms, all exchange companies have a spillage factor in terms of weeks. A % of deposit always expire. All RCI is trying to do is squeeze out more revenue by trying to entice you and me to use more weeks and limit the amount of spillage.
 
The example they give shows 10, 15, 20 and 30. If there are six bands, perhaps the trading values will be 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30. It's hard to know, though, until they roll it out. Maybe some of those who have seen some preliminary information can shed some additional light on things.

This is just an example, Trading value will be between 5 and 60 (max) and can be any number in between - 6, 11, 23 etc I have been told most 70% or more fall between 10 and the low 20's Most of the values I have been told make sense, xmas week at orange lake 3br - 50, Manhattan club seems to get low to mid 40's anytime, (this one through me a bit) banyan club 60 (Banyan club in my opinion is 1 step below a roach motel) I guess its location location location. Banking late I have been told is going to really hurt, the example I was given was someone putting in Hersey park (should be a great trader) only a couple of weeks before check in getting a 7. I have been told 3 weeks to go rci will close nov 12,13,14 and everything will go live on the 15th, rci will NOT announce the time until they are sure it will roll out as planned just in case they have to push it back.........

Dave
 
Very interesting. So it sounds like the bands will be going away? For instance, if the bands were 5-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41-50 and 51-60 (and I'm just making an example), previously someone with a 25 could "trade up" for a 30 (since they're in the same band). Now, they would get change back for anything 5-24 and would need credit for 26-30, and would also have visibility into 31-60. So there's a little downside, particularly for those whose weeks are near the bottom of their band.

I've seen charts showing what percent of your trading value you get for different times. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was 100% for 9-24 months, 80% for 6-9 months, 50% for 3-6 months, and 30% for 2 weeks - 3 months. That's from memory, plus I'm not sure if it was speculation, observation, or from a more official source. A trading value of 30, two months out, would only get 9, so yeah it's pretty significant.

I still have 4 deposits left (and will have one more before mid-November). I typically search for things I can barely see (so likely a "trade up"), but I'm not too stressed about having deposits remain after the change. I'll shift my strategy at that point and combine weeks to get things I can't even see right now.

I think that in the same way we currently look at points/MF$ in RCI Points, we'll look at TP/MF$ in RCI Weeks.
This is just an example, Trading value will be between 5 and 60 (max) and can be any number in between - 6, 11, 23 etc I have been told most 70% or more fall between 10 and the low 20's Most of the values I have been told make sense, xmas week at orange lake 3br - 50, Manhattan club seems to get low to mid 40's anytime, (this one through me a bit) banyan club 60 (Banyan club in my opinion is 1 step below a roach motel) I guess its location location location. Banking late I have been told is going to really hurt, the example I was given was someone putting in Hersey park (should be a great trader) only a couple of weeks before check in getting a 7.
 
I think we've seen two different answers on the question of bands. Dave599's answer is that we will get precise numbers in the interface that is deployed. Bourne suggests that, instead, we'll see something slightly more coarse grained than the underlying "true value" to simplify things a little bit, and reduce the amount of churn of what's in and what's out.

I suspect that both were considered at some point along the process of developing this new interface. But, I would not be surprised to see the coarse-grained model being the one that ultimately wins out---the average timeshare owner is already confused enough; creating a scheme where credit values required seem to change often would clearly not help things.

But, if we do get the coarse-grain model, then the trading system will look much as it did in the year leading up to 5/30/09, when our trade tests here and OT seemed to clearly suggest a small number of very well-defined trading power levels, vs. the system we seem to have now which is more fine-grained.

Another three weeks or so, (plus the month or two of dealing with a broken web site after that ;)), and we should know which scheme won---assuming it even manages to happen on time. I get the sense from speaking with guides that they are still in active development as opposed to final test&adjust...
 
The bands always existed. They exist in II too...the grids. The number of bands increased back in 5/2009........"

Slightly off subject--but a light went off in my head.

I have a two-bedroom locked unit that I trade as two one-bedrooms.

They are currently deposited with RCI, and I could trade each for a two-bedroom in my resort during the same week.

Light: The use of bands makes this possible. Apparently, both one and two bedrooms are in the same band during week 31 at Woodstone, but the extra points that I received depositing early may have been a factor.

Conclusion: Good thing I didn't trade this as a 2-bedroom.

Also, the last time I went to a Woodstone presentation, they told me that for only $11K I can trade-in and upgrade to a 4-bedroom and have greater trading power. In fact, he said I would increase my power by 400% because only 20% of timeshares are one-bedrooms. That would have been $11k wasted--not to mention the higher maintenance fees.

Time will tell with the new RCI points approach, but I have to believe that the two-bedroom will get a little more points than the one-bedroom.
 
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I'm real curious about the unit size issue as well.

It's not clear to me how I will have the same trading power if larger sized units require additional credits.
 
RCI Weeks "credits"

Endless Vacation magazine for winter 2010, page 74 talks about the new weeks system. Those of us who did not want points now will have "credits." This is pretty much points without the exorbitant cost, so everyone who owns points should be ticked off and everyone who didn't want points also should be ticked off. What a company!
Had a discussion with better half, "Do you want to go to timeshare X or do you want to spacebank it?" BH, "Where would we go?" "I don't know. We would have to pick one and see if we could trade in." BH, "I'd rather go to ours." Moral of the story: buy where you want to go.
 
Has anyone heard anything lately about how generic Wyndham deposits will be valued in this new RCI system? Will there still be any preference for Wyndham deposits trading back into Wyndham properties?

Tim
 
Big Deal

Texas Belle,

This has been discussed a lot. See "RCI Weeks to offer value transparency."

Most of us think that this is a good change.

RCI claims they are not changing the way they credit weeks, they are just showing people what the credit is.

However, there are desirable changes. If you trade for a lesser unit, you get "change back." If you want to trade for something better than what you have, you can use the change back credits or combine weeks. And we believe that you will know the value of your week, before you deposit.

Also, when you buy a timeshare, you will know it's trading value (credit) before you purchase.

However, I believe that over time knowing trading value will make low value weeks even lower, and high value weeks even higher.

Tom
 
Yep, preferences is another big unknown. Currently, if you have a preference somewhere, it looks like you have extra trading value. For instance even my worst deposit in one group sees almost everything in that group, while a deposit with a higher trading value but from another group sees less.

Some of the things I'm anxious to see how they'll work in the new system are:

1) Last minute exchanges (less than 45 days out).
2) Ongoing searches. (Will we be able to set one up for something that we don't have enough trading power for?)
3) Home group/resort preferences.
 
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