RCI apparently sued again over rentals

[daventrina]

Case in point...

The following search has been running for nearly 5 months against the following deposit with no confirmed exchange.

RED WOLF LAKESIDE LODGE 04/16/2006 4/4 1 Bedroom
Earliest Check-In Date 07/15/2006 Latest Check-In Date 07/16/2006
HAWAII: ISLAND OF HAWAII
0029, 0279, 0528, 2326, 4861, 4935, 5851, 5971, 6095, 6096, 6939


However, at many of the resorts that we have a search for we can rent a week ( BTW:for an amount much larger than the exchange fee that RCI can collect ). See the following:
Extra Vacation Search Results


Resort ID: 0528
Resort Name: VACATION INTERNATIONALE SEA VILLAGE Kailua-Kona, HI,
Type Max Occ/Privacy Kitchen Check-in Date Price
1 4 / 4 Full 07/08/2006 $693.49
1 4 / 4 Full 07/15/2006 $693.49
1 4 / 4 Full 07/29/2006 $693.49
1 4 / 4 Full 08/05/2006 $693.49

Resort ID: 4908
Resort Name: MAUNA LOA VILLAGE BY THE SEA See Reviews
KAILUA-KONA, HAWAII HI, USA
Type Max Occ/Privacy Kitchen Check-in Date Price

2 6 / 6 Full 07/07/2006 $1,975.99
2 6 / 6 Full 07/14/2006 $1,975.99
2 6 / 6 Full 07/21/2006 $1,975.99
1 4 / 4 Full 08/04/2006 $1,177.99
2 6 / 6 Full 08/04/2006 $1,975.99

Resort ID: 5971
Resort Name: FAIRFIELD HAWAII AT KONA HAWAIIAN RESORT
KAILUA-KONA, HAWAII HI, USA
Type Max Occ/Privacy Kitchen Check-in Date Price

2 6 / 4 Full 07/07/2006 $1,994.99
2 6 / 4 Full 07/14/2006 $1,994.99
2 6 / 4 Full 07/21/2006 $1,994.99
2 6 / 4 Full 07/28/2006 $1,994.99
2 6 / 4 Full 08/04/2006 $1,994.99

Resort ID: 6456
Resort Name: SVC @ KONA COAST RESORT II 5 NIGHT
KAILUA-KONA, HAWAII HI, USA
Type Max Occ/Privacy Kitchen Check-in Date Price

1 4 / 4 Full 07/02/2006 $1,049.99
1 4 / 4 Full 08/06/2006 $1,049.99

Resort ID: 6979
Resort Name: CLUB REGINA AT THE KONA REEF
KAILUA-KONA, HAWAII HI, USA
Type Max Occ/Privacy Kitchen Check-in Date Price

1 4 / 2 Full 07/08/2006 $1,119.99
1 4 / 2 Full 07/15/2006 $1,119.99
1 4 / 2 Full 07/22/2006 $1,119.99
1 4 / 2 Full 07/29/2006 $1,119.99
1 4 / 2 Full 08/05/2006 $1,119.99

RCI claims that they are weeks traded for cruise credits....
One of RCI's excuse explination is here: http://www.tug2.net/advice/FAQ-AskRCI.htm#_Toc32570621

 

[daventrina]

No RCI for one year

In some cases, resorts are dual affiliated with Interval International, so it is an option.

For everyone, there are the independent exchange companies, where the individual member rather than the resort affiliates. These include www.daelive.com , www.platinuminterchange.com , www.htse.net , www.tradingplaces.com , www.interchange-timeshare.com.au . and www.sfx-resorts.com .

We'll play, we just need to get EVERYONE to play. For one year, NO ONE deposits their week with RCI and they use an alternative. Bet that RCi would get the message.

 

[Aldo]

Considering how BAD a deal the "exchange for cruise" thing really is compared to just buying a cruise, now RCI expects this member to actually believe that ALL 21 available Hawaii weeks in their system were actually exchanged for cruises????????

No doubt the occasional person will be unwise enough to do the exchange for cruise option, but EVERYBODY???

Come on.

When someone is lying, I much prefer those lies to at least be plausible. Please.
Otherwise, it's simply insulting.

 

[Walt]

Considering how BAD a deal the "exchange for cruise" thing really is compared to just buying a cruise, now RCI expects this member to actually believe that ALL 21 available Hawaii weeks in their system were actually exchanged for cruises????????

No doubt the occasional person will be unwise enough to do the exchange for cruise option, but EVERYBODY???

Come on.

When someone is lying, I much prefer those lies to at least be plausible. Please.
Otherwise, it's simply insulting.

Hi Aldo,

In the Ask RCI question that I asked about how can over 80 units at the Maui Embassy show up as Rentals and NO units were showing up as Exchanges when Maui Embassy is only Bulk Spacebanking Owner Exchange Weeks for the Prime Months of March, April and May, this is Madge's answer.

Madge did not deny the they were Owner's Spacebank Weeks. Madge did not even say some were Developer's Week. So when the Maui Embassy said they were Owner's Spacebank Weeks, logic would tell us they are only Owner's Spacebank Week.


Madge Wrote:

The units offered in Extra Vacations (or a vendor such as SnapTravel) may not always be the specific units that were deposited for non-exchange transactions. For example, the member who requests a cruise exchange may be using a deposited week that was long ago assigned to another RCI member. When this is the case, an equivalent unit is taken in place of that member's deposited unit. Equivalence here is based on our standard Trading Power guidelines.

I Wrote:

I was told by the Embassy Maui that the deposit below were owners weeks made with a Bulk Spacebanking. The were not used for Cruises or any other Points program. I have not had one Weeks owner tell me that they can see these weeks when doing an Exchange Search. I used a week for an Weeks Exchanged Search that had Maximum Trade Value as told to me by a VC. I saw nothing.

In all due respect to you. I know that you are just the messenger. But please let RCI know that this is just not a believable answer.

Please give me your take on what was told to me by the Embassy Maui. Your statement and the Embassy Maui's statement can not both be correct. What possible timeshare week does RCI have that is equal to a Embassy Maui week in March, April, and May? The other Hawaii Resorts weeks are also being rented and have not been placed in the Exchange Pool either. So what is equal to a Hawaiian week in March, April, and May?

JerseyGirl Wrote:

As an aside, I think II's policy of only allowing undeposited weeks to be exchanged toward cruises (where only those specific weeks are then released to rental inventory) is much less likely to lend itself to the same suspicions and allegations.

Madge Wrote:

The specific details of our reconciliation process are proprietary and I won't be able to share them. What you seem to be asking for is proof that what I'm saying is true. If I cannot share something, I will let you know that; however, the information I do share is true to the very best of my knowledge.

I find this last sentence interesting.


http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12717&highlight=Walt

This is an part of an Email I received from the Maui Embassy

they have also acknowledged that their exchange agreement with each owner states that they may use banked weeks for other purposes, including, marketing, staff resort site inspections and rental to name a few.

I have also noted that you feel the practice of bulk banking to provide owners with better opportunities for exchanges doesn't seem to have the benefit that it once did. Owners are still struggling to get back into their home resort, ie, the Embassy Ka'anapali Beach Resort; yet they have seen rental opportunities on the internet for their own resort.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you believe that RCI is Cherry Picking the best Resorts in Prime time instead of using the Mud Week that were used for RCI's Points Program, please do 3 things.

1) Contract your Resort about this problem. My resorts did not know.
2) Contact your HOA about this problem. My HOAs did not know.
3) Contact RCI.

Money talks and Rental money makes more than Exchange money. But at least, let RCI know we are not as Dumb and Gullible as they may think.

If we (TUG) really wanted to get this message across to RCI someone, could start a thread in the Exchange Forum directed toward RCI that states something like this. Stop Cherry Picking the Prime Time Resorts in Prime Time for your Rental Program.

Ask RCI to use the policy that JerseyGirl stated, of only allowing undeposited weeks to be exchanged toward cruises (where only those specific weeks are then released to rental inventory) is much less likely to lend itself to the same suspicions and allegations. In other words, the week used for the points programs is the one they rent.

I will not start this thread because some see me as being Anti RCI. I am not. I have no problem with my past and present exchanges. But, I am not sure what will happen in the future. I think more and more RCI members are seeing that exchanges they once were able to get, are no longer available. I think the result would be better if someone else would start this thread.

Walt

 

[daventrina]

Extra Vacation Week

While we're still unable to get a confirmed exchange, we decided to rent from the "fine folks" at RCI. Turns out that it cost less to rent the week than use the exchange. So, we'll use the week to go to Coranado.

Search Against the following Deposit
00021 RED WOLF LAKESIDE LODGE 3991 13 04/16/2006 1 4/4
(A spring holiday ski week at the highest demand RCI Lake Tahoe Resort.)
Search Criteria
HAWAII: ISLAND OF HAWAII 07/15/2006 07/17/2006
0029, 0279, 0528, 1677, 2326, 4861, 4908, 4935, 5851, 5971, 6095, 6096, 6939, 6979, 8243 07/15/2006 07/17/2006

You have Held the following Extra Vacation Week:

Resort Name: VACATION INTERNATIONALE SEA VILLAGE 0528
Location: KAILUA-KONA, HAWAII, HI, USA
Max Occ/Privacy: 4/4
Unit Type: 1
Kitchen: Full
Type: Extra Vacation
Dates: 07/15/2006
Extra Vacation Price: $693.49
Comparison Prices.
Hotels.com $1113.00
Expedia.com $1,238.23
SunQuest $1210.28

Exchange Costs
Maint. Fees/Taxes $550
RCI Exc. Fee 149
Total Exchange $699

RCI also put RWL up for rent.
Red Wolf Lakeside Lodge
3991 Tahoe Vista, CA, USA 4/4 06/04/2006 - 06/11/2006 $869.99
So, you cant exchange into either the deposit resort or the requested reosrts, but can rent weeks at both.
(We're almost absolutly certain that RWL didn't give the weeks to RCI to rent, but will check with the resort)

RCI income increase is $544 for Sea Village and $720 for Red Wolf for an income increase of $1264 because they rented the weeks instead of exchanging them.

 

[timeos2]

Re: Extra Vacation Week

While we're still unable to get a confirmed exchange, we decided to rent from the "fine folks" at RCI. Turns out that it cost less to rent the week than use the exchange. So, we'll use the week to go to Coranado.

Search Against the following Deposit
00021 RED WOLF LAKESIDE LODGE 3991 13 04/16/2006 1 4/4
(A spring holiday ski week at the highest demand RCI Lake Tahoe Resort.)
Search Criteria
HAWAII: ISLAND OF HAWAII 07/15/2006 07/17/2006
0029, 0279, 0528, 1677, 2326, 4861, 4908, 4935, 5851, 5971, 6095, 6096, 6939, 6979, 8243 07/15/2006 07/17/2006

You have Held the following Extra Vacation Week:

Resort Name: VACATION INTERNATIONALE SEA VILLAGE 0528
Location: KAILUA-KONA, HAWAII, HI, USA
Max Occ/Privacy: 4/4
Unit Type: 1
Kitchen: Full
Type: Extra Vacation
Dates: 07/15/2006
Extra Vacation Price: $693.49
Comparison Prices.
Hotels.com $1113.00
Expedia.com $1,238.23
SunQuest $1210.28

Exchange Costs
Maint. Fees/Taxes $550
RCI Exc. Fee 149
Total Exchange $699

RCI also put RWL up for rent.
Red Wolf Lakeside Lodge
3991 Tahoe Vista, CA, USA 4/4 06/04/2006 - 06/11/2006 $869.99
So, you cant exchange into either the deposit resort or the requested reosrts, but can rent weeks at both.
(We're almost absolutly certain that RWL didn't give the weeks to RCI to rent, but will check with the resort)

RCI income increase is $544 for Sea Village and $720 for Red Wolf for an income increase of $1264 because they rented the weeks instead of exchanging them.

That wouldn't appear to be a qualified exchange on a week per week basis. An April week in Tahoe for a July Hawaii? You'd be getting the best of that deal.

But you did get it as a rental and now you can still use your Tahoe week. RCI did alright by you even if you don't like rentals. If you had points you could have given up more to make that upgrade but weeks, being fixed as they are, there is no way to "up value" a deposit. This has nothing to do with renting (although you benefitted from it as without it you didn't have a qualified trade) and everything to do with perceived value of a deposit that is too high.

 

[Carolinian]

They are looking at the big picture, the impact on the overall exchanging system, not using tunnel vision for their only personal situation on this one transaction. If exchanging is to have a future more of us should look at the overall impact instead of using tunnel vision directed only at our own personal situation.

Rentals by exchnage companies to the general public from exchange deposits are a clear and present danger to the future of exchanging. They are a flagrant conflict of interest that simply should not be allowed.

 

[timeos2]

I'm looking at the big picture as well. Forget the renting - this is an all too typical case where the fixed and 7 day nature of the old RCI system collides with what owners really want to do - get the trade they desire. Due to a deposit that isn't qualified they either don't get it and have to settle for something else or, in this case, choose to look to the rental world (adding cash) to the equation to get to the value of the desired time. If they were in points they would have another option - use more points. In far too many cases we have people complaining that they can't get a trade and then blaming rentals as the reason. The real reason is they are in a system that cannot properly adjust for the varied values of deposits and thus the trade they want sits there unclaimed because no one with the necessary value to claim it has requested it. So that time could go to waste, it can be offered at a fair value in points OR it can be offered at a fair value as a rental. That should be the last choice for RCI or any exchange company but it is more reasonable than simply giving a much higher value week for week exchange to any owner that comes along. If that was done it would undermine the support for those high value weeks far worse than rentals can. The better weeks owners will hear about the deals, sell off those good weeks and join the bottom dwellers who can claim those weeks at will with far lower costs.Just like you worry will happen with rentals. The difference is that rentals can be controlled. Don't deposit or deposit in a system where the different values are better accounted for (points). The collaspe started to happen back in the heydays of the SA values and could have killed the weeks system forever if allowed to continue unabated.

 

[spike]

Re: Is RCI living up to their Rental Statement?

RCI also said this "A. Generally-Comments from a Vice President, RCI
Many people have asked questions regarding our rental programs; where does the inventory come from? Is RCI renting weeks we have deposited for exchange? Before I try and clarify what is a complex subject, We are audited annually by Deloitte & Touche to ensure that

Enron redux....

 

[Carolinian]

When an exchange company rents prime weeks on a large scale, it decreases the supply, and therefore makes exchanges harder to get.

It is Points that cannot adjust for the varied values of deposits. Its calcified numbers cannot adjust for constantly changing supply and demand factors. Its overaveraging assigns the same point total to weeks of widely different values, unlike Weeks which has the ability to properly value each individual week. Heck, Points is so rigid it can't even properly assign the Thanksgiving bump in the years that Thanksgiving falls on week 46 (they still give it to week 47 even when that is the dog week after Thanksgiving). Then there is the price fixing by giving resorts still in developer sales, overbuilt areas, and some other favorites inflated point values.

The Weeks 45-day window opens the distressed short shelf life inventory to most members. These are weeks that the market has said are not worth the value that had been assigned to them. It is NOT a trade up. Last minute deposits are assigned a much lower trading power, so it just makes sense that remaining spacebank inventory at the last minute also be assigned a lower trading power.

As to SA, some of the owners of overbuilt areas like to harp on that, but lets look at the realities. Trading power is driven by supply and demand, and SA simply has a better supply / demand curve than Florida (of course there are some parts of Florida like Key West or Sanibel/Captiva that have much better demand vs supply than, say, overbuilt Orlando and would do much better than the usual Florida position)

The European version of the RCI Directory on page 25 has a Regional Availibility table that tells the tale. It ranks each month in various resort areas as to spacebank availibility on the following scale:
1= limited availibiity / very highly demanded
2= less availibility / highly demanded
3= good availibility
4= very good availibility

Florida rates as follows:
1 has 2 months
2 has 3 months
3 has 4 months
4 has 3 months

South Africa rates as follows:
1 has 5 months
2 has 3 months
3 has 4 months
4 has 0 months

With a better supply / demand curve, OF COURSE SA trades easily into many places in Florida, especially overbuilt Orlando.

The system is not knocked out of whack by letting SA trade into Florida. It is knocked out of whack by RCI Points price fixing and assigning point values that are too high for an area with an ''abundant excess of supply'' , as RCI's Madge described Orlando. Bootleg also told us that the two resorts with the biggest excess of supply in the entire RCI system were both Gold Crowns in Orlando.

Hey, Orlando IS a nice place, but there IS such a situation as too much of a good thing.

I'm looking at the big picture as well. Forget the renting - this is an all too typical case where the fixed and 7 day nature of the old RCI system collides with what owners really want to do - get the trade they desire. Due to a deposit that isn't qualified they either don't get it and have to settle for something else or, in this case, choose to look to the rental world (adding cash) to the equation to get to the value of the desired time. If they were in points they would have another option - use more points. In far too many cases we have people complaining that they can't get a trade and then blaming rentals as the reason. The real reason is they are in a system that cannot properly adjust for the varied values of deposits and thus the trade they want sits there unclaimed because no one with the necessary value to claim it has requested it. So that time could go to waste, it can be offered at a fair value in points OR it can be offered at a fair value as a rental. That should be the last choice for RCI or any exchange company but it is more reasonable than simply giving a much higher value week for week exchange to any owner that comes along. If that was done it would undermine the support for those high value weeks far worse than rentals can. The better weeks owners will hear about the deals, sell off those good weeks and join the bottom dwellers who can claim those weeks at will with far lower costs.Just like you worry will happen with rentals. The difference is that rentals can be controlled. Don't deposit or deposit in a system where the different values are better accounted for (points). The collaspe started to happen back in the heydays of the SA values and could have killed the weeks system forever if allowed to continue unabated.

 

[beejaybee]

I find it quite interesting that every time I log onto RCI a popup encouraging members to deposit covers the screen and that the same message is on the banner atop each page! Is desperation setting in?

Without deposits there will be nothing for RCI to rent out. If RCI members who are depositing prime areas do not get their desired trades, why would they continue to do so?

Barb

 

[short]

I think most RCI member who follow the proper procedures are getting their desired trades. Deposit early, request early, be flexible, deposit a desireable week.

Those of us who have blue weeks, want HI or So Cal in the summer,want to find that at 3 months before checkin, and want specific checkin dates are out of luck. The days of tradeups are history. However one persons trash is another persons treasure still hold true. September in the mountains or Florida beach could still be a great vacation for some.

In addition, most people do what they have always done. Including depositing there week and not using it. A large share of deposits are never used at all.

Short