Ranking the Top Timeshare Systems

[Fredm]

I have sort of wondered that too. But to me Wyndham is a kind of nondescript brand. It's not like the other four that have a wide name recognition in the general public. Was Wyndham a name made up by Cendant? What's their history, where did they come from?

I can't even tell you where there is a Wyndham here in LA. Other than the fact that the Bel-Age was a Wyndham now it's becoming The London.

Perhaps now with the new branding of Fairfield, they may achieve more name recognition, but I don't think that has happened yet.

Cendant restructured in October 2006. It had to shed itself of a name that had become mud in the industry.
It hospitality divison included the following brands:
* Amerihost Inn
* Days Inn
* Howard Johnson
* Knights Inn
* Ramada
* Super 8 Motels
* Travelodge
* Wingate Inn
* Wyndham Hotels & Resorts
* Baymont Inn & Suites

Wyndham was the most up-scale of the bunch. Took the name for one division named Wyndham International, and placed Fairfield and Worldmark / Trendwest in to the division.

Fredm

 

[ricoba]

Has Hilton dropped rCI and moved over to II? Does anyone know?

No.

Some of the Florida affiliates I believe are dual affiliated with RCI & II, but HGVC is still in RCI

 

[ricoba]

Cendant restructured in October 2006. It had to shed itself of a name that had become mud in the industry.
It hospitality divison included the following brands:
* Amerihost Inn
* Days Inn
* Howard Johnson
* Knights Inn
* Ramada
* Super 8 Motels
* Travelodge
* Wingate Inn
* Wyndham Hotels & Resorts
* Baymont Inn & Suites

Wyndham was the most up-scale of the bunch. Took the name for one division named Wyndham International, and placed Fairfield and Worldmark / Trendwest in to the division.

Fredm

Yes, I am aware of that. But I still think that the Wyndham name just doesn't have the following or name recognition of the other big 4. At least not yet.

 

[tomandrobin]

Fred

Keeping the facts straight, as you say.

Fact...There is not an internal Marriott system. It is not owned or part of Marriott.

Fact...Marriott does give an unfair advantage to multiple week owners over single week owners

The fact that Starwood controls II trades is a bid downer, especially for those owners who paid a premium price, for a premium unit. Its no wonder you don't see many ST John, Harborside and Hawii weeks as compared to comparable Marriott resorts.

Marriott DOES have an internal trading program. They simply use I.I. as the internal exchange mechanism. In fact, it is likely the most successful internal exchange program among the hotel companies. While Starwood allows a 3 day trade exclusive to Starwood owners, Marriott provides for a 24 day exchange exclusive. Starwood only permits Options trading at 8 months. Marriott trade requests can be made anytime.

RE: multiple week owners "bumping" single share owners, not true. Multiple week owners may reserve 13 months out for consecutive week reservations only. The later cancellation of any one week nullifies the entire multiple week reservation. Marriott releases 50% of inventory for this purpose. The remaining 50% is withheld for single share owners at 12 months.

So,it is not a cut and dry comparison. Starwood Options are very democratic. Options are Options. The Marriott system recognizes comparable value. The best trades go to the best deposits. Depends on what side of the stick one is on.

Finally, Marriott owners have absolute control over their reservations. Once made they may be deposited directly without interference, or substitution. If you own a Hawaii resort, the reservation week is what is deposited. And, I.I. offers an additional bonus week for the pleasure. Indeed, I.I. offers an AC for most Marriott deposits.
This extends to the Request First option. Marriott owners routinely exercise the RF. When combined with the 24 day exclusive on other Marriott deposits, Marriott owners routinely enjoy trades to other Marriott resorts without having to surrender their valued reservation before confirming the trade.

I am not disparaging the Starwood system, just getting the comparative facts on the table.

Fred

 

[Fredm]

Fred

Keeping the facts straight, as you say.

Fact...There is not an internal Marriott system. It is not owned or part of Marriott.

Fact...Marriott does give an unfair advantage to multiple week owners over single week owners

The fact that Starwood controls II trades is a bid downer, especially for those owners who paid a premium price, for a premium unit. Its no wonder you don't see many ST John, Harborside and Hawii weeks as compared to comparable Marriott resorts.

OK. We a splitting hairs. Marriott does not "own" the exchange. It does function exactly as stated.

Unfair advantage is a valid perspective. However, there are roughly 50% of shares owned by multiple share owners. The ability to make consecutive week reservations with multiple shares is a service to those owners. Nor can the system be manipulated. If one week of a multiple week reservation is later canceled, the entire reservation is canceled.

The term 'unfair advantage" is not what was responded to. The terms used were "bump" and "lockout" single share owners.. No reservation is ever bumped. Once made it is honored. Nor are they locked out. Again 50% of the inventory is held back for approximately 50% of the shares owned. And the system is punitive to those multiple week owners who attempt to either abuse it, or must cancel for legitimate reasons. The resulting cancellations are thrown back into the pool for owner reservations.

I am simply explaining how the system functions.

 

[Fredm]

Yes, I am aware of that. But I still think that the Wyndham name just doesn't have the following or name recognition of the other big 4. At least not yet.

Right you are. Nor will it. It is not a hotel brand as structured. Just a Division name. Fairfield and Trendwest resorts are still what they have always been. They are not re-branding them. Just changing the system name they operate under.

 

[Henry M.]

I'm a little confused by the explanations of the Marriott system. Could someone tell me if I understand this right:

Assume I am a multiple week owner with Marriott.

1.) If I want to reserve a single week at my home resort I can do so 12 months out.

2.) If I want to reserve multiple weeks, I can reserve 12 months out from the 1st week, but can reserve consecutive weeks. thus the later weeks are actually reserved more than 12 months out? Or can I make my whole reservation 13 months out from the first arrival date?

3.) Are there shorter timeframes for reserving somewhere outside your home resort?

 

[Fredm]

I'm a little confused by the explanations of the Marriott system. Could someone tell me if I understand this right:

Assume I am a multiple week owner with Marriott.

1.) If I want to reserve a single week at my home resort I can do so 12 months out.

2.) If I want to reserve multiple weeks, I can reserve 12 months out from the 1st week, but can reserve consecutive weeks. thus the later weeks are actually reserved more than 12 months out? Or can I make my whole reservation 13 months out from the first arrival date?

3.) Are there shorter timeframes for reserving somewhere outside your home resort?

If you own multiple shares, you may reserve 13 months out, only for consecutive or concurrent week stays. If you own 2 weeks, you may reserve both consecutive weeks 13 months from the date of your first weeks stay.
The reservation must be at your home resort, of course.
If you own multiple weeks at different resorts, you may also reserve at 13 months, but the weekly reservations must still be consecutive, each at the resort owned (in the season owned).

 

[tomandrobin]

OK. We a splitting hairs. Marriott does not "own" the exchange. It does function exactly as stated.

Unfair advantage is a valid perspective. However, there are roughly 50% of shares owned by multiple share owners. The ability to make consecutive week reservations with multiple shares is a service to those owners. Nor can the system be manipulated. If one week of a multiple week reservation is later canceled, the entire reservation is canceled.

The term 'unfair advantage" is not what was responded to. The terms used were "bump" and "lockout" single share owners.. No reservation is ever bumped. Once made it is honored. Nor are they locked out. Again 50% of the inventory is held back for approximately 50% of the shares owned. And the system is punitive to those multiple week owners who attempt to either abuse it, or must cancel for legitimate reasons. The resulting cancellations are thrown back into the pool for owner reservations.

I am simply explaining how the system functions.

Just busting on you about the Marriott. Both systems (Marriott and Starwood) unfairly punishes their owners.

Starwood rewards those owners who bought at a lesser season, lesser resort by making everything equal at the 8 month mark. The only way the system can work is by controlling the II trades. Taking your nice Hawaii 2 bedroom exchange and instead deposting that Desert Oasis or Vistana Village unit. Is that fair to the Hawaii owner...no.

 

[JimC]

OK. We a splitting hairs. Marriott does not "own" the exchange. It does function exactly as stated....

I doubt that the majority of MVCI owners would agree that Marriott has an internal trade system. It simply gives one a brief, and very brief, exclusivity window for trading in II. Even if Marriott still had an ownership interest in II that would not constitute an internal trade system as I suspect the majority of MVCI owners view it.

 

[Dave M]

Call it what you want, Jim. That trading priority is still a huge benefit that Marriott owners enjoy. As long as the trade requested is reasonably comparable to the exchange requested, no non-Marriott owner will have a chance at a timeshare week that an owner seeks.

 

[tomandrobin]

I doubt that the majority of MVCI owners would agree that Marriott has an internal trade system. It simply gives one a brief, and very brief, exclusivity window for trading in II. Even if Marriott still had an ownership interest in II that would not constitute an internal trade system as I suspect the majority of MVCI owners view it.

Question.....

Trading Marriott thru II, does II filter the unit during the 24 day period? Can Orlando trade into Orlando, Can HH trade into HH and does it trade even 2 bedroom for 2 bedroom? If i had a 2 bedroom silver week (low) in Orlando, can I see and trade for a 2 bedroom platnimum (high) in Hawii or Ski week in Colorado?

I know that the Staroptions are blind, no filters other then just having enough points. So in therory the lowest location can trade in the best location, as long as points enough. For example, Vistana Village can get a Harborside week during the summer.

 

[Kal]

The discussion about Marriott's "internal" trading system just makes Hyatt's true internal system look golden.

With Hyatt there is no hand wringing about occupancy of your unit. Unlike Marriott, there's no calling in at the precise second the 13- or 12-month period starts to get a reservation. An owner has a full exclusive 6-months to decide if (s)he wants to use it. If not the unit is made available to all Hyatt owners. The owners have absolute priority reserving any the units where the owner declines occupancy. Subsequently, after about 3 months, any remaining units are then made available to non-Hyatt owners.

I use the Hyatt internal exchange (points) system every year and there has never been an instance where I did not get my very first choice confirmed.

 

[tomandrobin]

The discussion about Marriott's "internal" trading system just makes Hyatt's true internal system look golden.

With Hyatt there is no hand wringing about occupancy of your unit. Unlike Marriott, there's no calling in at the precise second the 13- or 12-month period starts to get a reservation. An owner has a full exclusive 6-months to decide if (s)he wants to use it. If not the unit is made available to all Hyatt owners. The owners have absolute priority reserving any the units where the owner declines occupancy. Subsequently, after about 3 months, any remaining units are then made available to non-Hyatt owners.

I use the Hyatt internal exchange (points) system every year and there has never been an instance where I did not get my very first choice confirmed.

Sounds very attractive!

 

[Dave M]

tomandrobin -

II appiles its "comparable trade" methodology to Marriott internal exchanges. (Note for Jim: "Internal Exchanges" is Marriott's term, not mine.) Thus, a Gold week or even a Bronze week might confirm into a Platinum week and a 1BR might confirm into a 2BR week, especially if there is nothing smaller than a 2BR at the resort sought. II makes the determination as to whether the exchange is "comparable".

 

[Steamboat Bill]

The discussion about Marriott's "internal" trading system just makes Hyatt's true internal system look golden.

Subsequently, after about 3 months, any remaining units are then made available to non-Hyatt owners.

No wonder I have a hard time getting Hyatt trades at prime times with my Marriott!

 

[Kal]

It's always fun when someone gets into a good Hyatt property during a prime season using Interval. They're unique where everyone wants to know how they did it. Unfortunately, it's a short lived relationship as it's highly unlikely they will reappear at another time.

 

[JimC]

Call it what you want, Jim. That trading priority is still a huge benefit that Marriott owners enjoy. As long as the trade requested is reasonably comparable to the exchange requested, no non-Marriott owner will have a chance at a timeshare week that an owner seeks.

We will disagree on this one. I do not see it much benefit at all because it is such a small window of advantage and it only applies to weeks deposited. That negates any classification as an internal trade system in my view.

 

[mesamirage]

Unfair advantage is a valid perspective. However, there are roughly 50% of shares owned by multiple share owners. ...

....Again 50% of the inventory is held back for approximately 50% of the shares owned.

Fred I don't own Marriott and don't claim to know the system... but my question would be even though only 50% of the owners of Marriott own multiple weeks and therefore only 50% of the inventory essentially gets released/reserved at 13 months out... I just wonder at the 13 month mark for the multi week owners, don't you think its likely they are only reserving Prime weeks and locations... basically cherry picking the best places and timeframes... so those 50% that own multiple weeks can easily snag up the 15-20% inventory that is the weeks 100% of everyone wants... its not like you would call 13 months out to get an Summer week in Palm Springs at 115 degrees.

Maybe I understand it completely wrong, but going strictly with percentages in this case could be VERY misleading. As an owner of my resorts I want access to premium weeks, and it just seems like with Marriott you are heavily punished for access to Prime weeks if you only own 1 week.

Steve

 

[Fredm]

Fred I don't own Marriott and don't claim to know the system... but my question would be even though only 50% of the owners of Marriott own multiple weeks and therefore only 50% of the inventory essentially gets released/reserved at 13 months out... I just wonder at the 13 month mark for the multi week owners, don't you think its likely they are only reserving Prime weeks and locations... basically cherry picking the best places and timeframes... so those 50% that own multiple weeks can easily snag up the 15-20% inventory that is the weeks 100% of everyone wants... its not like you would call 13 months out to get an Summer week in Palm Springs at 115 degrees.

Maybe I understand it completely wrong, but going strictly with percentages in this case could be VERY misleading. As an owner of my resorts I want access to premium weeks, and it just seems like with Marriott you are heavily punished for access to Prime weeks if you only own 1 week.

Steve

Steve.

Good thought. But, it does not work that way.
It is 50% of every week. No more no less. At 13 months, a multiple week owner may reserve that week exactly 13 months in advance. 50% of the available space is released for that purpose. The remaining 50% of that week is withheld for the 12 month reservation window.

Fred

 

[mesamirage]

If thats really how the system works, then I see no penalty for only owning one week... seems like there has been ALOT of post on many threads by Marriott owners who feel like they can't get the same reservations as 2 week owners.... Is the inventory just that tight all the way around for multi week owners and single week owners??

I just looked at your website, would there possibly be any conflict of interest with the fact that you sell resales, that you would want to make things sizzle a bit? Don't get me wrong, I know if you deal with something everyday you have a much better understand of the systems.... I would like to hear from some 1 week owners and their experiences.

Steve

 

[taffy19]

What vacation club do you like?

The one that you belong to because I have mainly read about this club and not the others. We could have easily done it if we hadn't bought our last timeshare condo but not now. We have reached our limit.

Also, someone posted some pictures recently where they were visiting at a beautiful home on a beach on an island. I believe that it was a High Country Club home too. I looked quickly for the thread but can't find it. I call that vacationing in style and prefer a private home over a busy resort. However, we don't need such a big home for just two people unless you go with family and friends. I am sure they would love to come with you.

If you have to rent a home like that, you pay a lot more than what you will pay with the club. You will get your original outlay back in not too many years and the yearly fees are a lot less than if you had to rent such a home. Our neighbors bought at the Waiohai but stayed at a private home this summer because they had more people than the condo would hold but when I heard the price, I almost fell over. I believe that your club has a home on their list on one of the islands too.

I see more of these clubs coming but you have to do your due diligence as there may be bad ones coming too. I believe that you can stay only one week at a time at one home and that is not a good feature because moving every week is a pain in the you know where.

Timesharing is getting too many fees on top of your maintenance fees if you want to go to a different location and you don't have that with a club. I just enjoy reading this topic and I would have considered joining a club if we didn't own six weeks already and were much younger.

If you are young, couldn't you own at a club with family members or very good friends and it wouldn't be too expensive. You could go together or once every two years alone. I would take the risk but you have to realize that you do not own a deed and are member of a club and nothing more.

What is the difference really with Worldmark? Isn't that a club too? They have less of a guarantee yet and you have to sell before your are relieved from your obligations. I believe that this is different here?

 

[Fredm]

If thats really how the system works, then I see no penalty for only owning one week... seems like there has been ALOT of post on many threads by Marriott owners who feel like they can't get the same reservations as 2 week owners.... Is the inventory just that tight all the way around for multi week owners and single week owners??

I just looked at your website, would there possibly be any conflict of interest with the fact that you sell resales, that you would want to make things sizzle a bit? Don't get me wrong, I know if you deal with something everyday you have a much better understand of the systems.... I would like to hear from some 1 week owners and their experiences.

Steve

That is exactly how it works.
Re: conflict of interest, and adding sizzle, quite the contrary. The developer adds sizzle. For some reason,they can. I, on the other hand, live or die by my reputation.
As for my reputation, it must speak for itself.
I am not infallible. No one is. But, I have never knowingly sizzled functionality. Besides being dishonest, it is counterproductive. The good will of my clients is where my referral business comes from. And referrals are the lifeblood of a serious business person.
In fact, the knowledge gained from many years experience is my value-added.
All I have tried to do here is share that insight, on this topic, and others.

Unlike the developer, I have no vested interest in any one product. It matters not to me if you are interested in purchasing a Starwood or Marriott product. I can sell you either. But, if asked my opinion, or if I choose to voice it, it is based on the insight gained over the years. It is not the perspective of an owner of 2 or 10 timeshares, but the accumulated knowledge of many, many interactions on every facet of how these systems work.

Misinformation, and mis-perception run rampant. Repeat something often enough and it becomes conventional wisdom. Mine is an attempt at stating the issue factually, as i know them. I make no judgment about it. Different strokes for different folks. I have personal preferences to be sure. Everyone does. I am not stating preference. The only time I have, it related to my preference for food-service. Hardly a topic of heavy debate here.

Some single week owners who cannot get a reservation will "blame" it on the 13 month rule. But, it is no different than a Starwood owner calling Westin Maui at 12 months for a July week and being shut out. There is no 13 month rule. Just more calls than the system can accommodate in a 5 minute period. No one blames it on anything other than what it is. It is the nature of floating week ownership. Owners can be justifiably disappointed and upset about it. But,the problem should be called what it is. Unfortunately, it is human nature to blame something else. Why? Most will not admit that they did not understand that there could actually be more demand for certain weeks than there is availability in a floating week system. They think themselves too sophisticated to miss such a basic concept. So they blame the system for conspiring against them. Besides, many just think it sounds unfair, and that is reason enough to champion the cry of the righteous. It is well intentioned, but based in half truths and misinformation.

As I have stated in other posts, my personal best interests are better served by butting out of these discussions, precisely because I am a reseller. I choose to post in the spirit of sharing information. That is what TUG is all about. When I offer opinion. I state it as such. And risk being flamed because of it. Nonetheless it is offered up in the same spirit. If I can add worthwhile dimension to a discussion, it too will stand on its merits or lack thereof.

Fred

 

[tomandrobin]

Fred

Keep posting just as you have been. We all are expressing our views and what we think is true. I see no conflict between you being a reseller and us. I am still learning every week about timeshares and have found none of them close to being perfect. Each has its own advantage and pitfall.

 

[califgal]

I think Fred's posts are very informative and he knows the in's and out's of the "big 4". I see no conflict of interest.

I vote for Starwood because that's what I own and love Maui.
I have to say Hyatt is sounding quite interesting!