Ram's Horn on Ebay

[Robert D]

Cindy, I think you were wise to not bite on Craig's Lodge. We visited it and had dinner there one night in Aug 2006. The place is charming but the rooms are small and not very good. The staff is excellent and very helpful, but I've heard the the building has some structural problems due to some work the city did in widening the street that goes up to the lodge. Seems like the building is starting to slide down the hill, and that sounds like big special assessments written all over it. Also, it's part of that Premier Vacation Club that has a pretty bad reputation. Craigs (aka Golden Eagle Resort) I think is an RCI Silver Crown, as is Christie's Lodge in Avon, which pretty much tells you that the Silver Crown designation is basically meaningless. If it wasn't for the possible structural problems, Craig's might be worth considering, but I'd still be wary of that Premier outfit.

 

[Gibson]

I wonder what they are expecting to get for the weeks they are selling. The thing is, Eldora ski area is about as close to Denver than it is to Estes Park, so I don't think of Estes Park as a ski town at all, which is why their "white" time is in January. A true ski resort is bright red from the end of December, all the way through the first week of April.

The resort won't trade very well during most of the year, is my guess. Summer and early fall will be the popular months. Spring will be cold and Rocky Mountain National Park doesn't even open until late spring. I love Estes Park, but I love every mountain area in the off-season, when it is quiet (because no one wants to go there ). Buy these weeks with the knowledge that most ski resorts are within a few minutes of skiing, not 90 minutes. The prices are probably going to be in the $5,000 and up range, which is way too high for my blood. I would buy a ski week at any number of resorts in Colorado over Estes Park.

Hi Rick and Cindy,

I am sorry, but you are incorrect in your perceptions of RHV trading value throughout the year. I thought the best way to demonstrate this was to cut and paste the utilization from our latest (2006) RCI Annual Flex Report. It gets a little jumbled in the process, but you can see that in Jan of 2006 RCI utilized nearly 99% of all weeks deposited by RHV in weeks. In fact, utilization year round is extremely impressive. You'll note very little inventory is deposited to RCI in the summer months, because our owners primarily use those weeks at RHV. Rocky Mountain National Park has historically been Colorado's most visited destination (approximately 3 million visitors a year). RCI has less than 150 units in affiliated inventory in Estes Park. I have spoken to the manager of the Craigs, and she tells me that owner use (not exchange) is the primary emphasis of her owners too. The Worldmark (aka Trendswest, Wyndam, etc) from my understanding keeps most of its inventory for their members. Trading value with RCI is based in large part both on supply and demand. The percentages below not only demonstrate that exchange values at RHV are extremely high, but also that RCI members that want to vacation at RHV should own here becuse exchanging in is extremely difficult. I should also mention here that 75% of the weeks uxchanged into RHV through RCI were our own owners doing internal exchanges back into RHV in order to facilitate reunions, longer stays, and use from one year to the next. Hope this clarifies things. Deborah, GM


RCI Weeks (Intervals) RCI Points (Nights)
Year Month Supply 1-4-1 non 1-4-1 Tot Usg Utilization Supply Usage Utilization
2006 Jan 75 61 13 74 98.7% 4 4 100.0%
Feb 119 100 14 114 95.8% 10 10 100.0%
Mar 104 97 4 101 97.1% 0 0 0
Apr 143 131 7 138 96.5% 14 14 100.0%
May 44 44 0 44 100.0% 18 18 100.0%
Jun 38 37 0 37 97.4% 24 24 100.0%
Jul 5 5 0 5 100.0% 0 0 0
Aug 22 22 0 22 100.0% 7 7 100.0%
Sep 60 58 2 60 100.0% 0 0 0
Oct 32 32 0 32 100.0% 0 0 0
Nov 35 35 0 35 100.0% 0 0 0
Dec 59 47 4 51 86.4% 21 21 100.0%
736 669 44 713 96.9% 98 98 100.0%

 

[Gibson]

Hi Rick and Cindy,

I am sorry, but you are incorrect in your perceptions of RHV trading value throughout the year. I thought the best way to demonstrate this was to cut and paste the utilization from our latest (2006) RCI Annual Flex Report. It gets a little jumbled in the process, but you can see that in Jan of 2006 RCI utilized nearly 99% of all weeks deposited by RHV in weeks. In fact, utilization year round is extremely impressive. You'll note very little inventory is deposited to RCI in the summer months, because our owners primarily use those weeks at RHV. Rocky Mountain National Park has historically been Colorado's most visited destination (approximately 3 million visitors a year). RCI has less than 150 units in affiliated inventory in Estes Park. I have spoken to the manager of the Craigs, and she tells me that owner use (not exchange) is the primary emphasis of her owners too. The Worldmark (aka Trendswest, Wyndam, etc) from my understanding keeps most of its inventory for their members. Trading value with RCI is based in large part both on supply and demand. The percentages below not only demonstrate that exchange values at RHV are extremely high, but also that RCI members that want to vacation at RHV should own here becuse exchanging in is extremely difficult. I should also mention here that 75% of the weeks uxchanged into RHV through RCI were our own owners doing internal exchanges back into RHV in order to facilitate reunions, longer stays, and use from one year to the next. Hope this clarifies things. Deborah, GM


RCI Weeks (Intervals) RCI Points (Nights)
Year Month Supply 1-4-1 non 1-4-1 Tot Usg Utilization Supply Usage Utilization
2006 Jan 75 61 13 74 98.7% 4 4 100.0%
Feb 119 100 14 114 95.8% 10 10 100.0%
Mar 104 97 4 101 97.1% 0 0 0
Apr 143 131 7 138 96.5% 14 14 100.0%
May 44 44 0 44 100.0% 18 18 100.0%
Jun 38 37 0 37 97.4% 24 24 100.0%
Jul 5 5 0 5 100.0% 0 0 0
Aug 22 22 0 22 100.0% 7 7 100.0%
Sep 60 58 2 60 100.0% 0 0 0
Oct 32 32 0 32 100.0% 0 0 0
Nov 35 35 0 35 100.0% 0 0 0
Dec 59 47 4 51 86.4% 21 21 100.0%
736 669 44 713 96.9% 98 98 100.0%

Oops, one more thing. Rocky Mountain National Park is open year round. Trail Ridge Road closes during the winter, but the rest of the park is open for snowshoeing, cross country skiing, hiking and wildlife viewing. Last time I saw stats, less than 15% of Coloradoans downhill ski, so for the rest of us we offer a great, far less crowded (and expensive) alternative in the winter months. Deborah

 

[Gibson]

Restaurants in Estes Park

We've been going to Estes Park for about 35 years now. We stayed at Ram's Horn over Labor Day for the first time since it has been TS. We stayed there before when it was rental cabins.

I don't really think of Estes as being a high-end type place. If fact I don't really like the town of Estes that much any more. We can't find any restaurants there that we like. But for scenery and for hiking it is by far our favorite place that we have been in Colorado. RMNP has trails for everyone. My husband and grandson have done some major trails complete with rock climbing and sliding down glaciers. I have stuck with the easy trails. Even with these there was some beautiful views and nice waterfalls.

Rams Horn units were nice, they had several nice activities (many involved food) and the location can't be beat.

Hi June,

I've lived in EP for over 30 years and for many years there weren't great restaurants here, but there are lots now. Here is a short list of our favorites: Dunraven Inn, Sweet Basilico, The View, Mary's Lake Lodge, Inn at Glen Haven, Fawn Brook Inn, Redstone Inn, Old Rock Inn, Poppy's and The Other Side. Hope you try some of these on your next visit! Deborah

 

[sandcastles]

Thanks for the restaurant listings Deborah. I've tried most of them. I do like The Other Side and The View. Did not like Sweet Basilica and Marys Lake Lodge much.

One comment on Crags Lodge. This is a resort I enjoyed staying in. You can't really compare this and RHV, they are completely different. RHV is newer and much larger units. Crags Lodge is very old, on the historic register and very quaint. We were on the third floor at Crags and it was quite a hike up the stairs. They have put in an elevator and in Sept. were waiting to have it inspected to get it up and going. We did have a beautiful view of the mountains from the 3rd floor.

I would gladly stay at either of these resorts. RHV is much harder to trade in to then Crags.

 

[Deb from NC]

I also enjoyed staying at Crag's Lodge..we were there in June this
year and had a wonderful stay....I would stay there again. (Probably will,
if the Ram's Horn units at auction are too expensive!) They don't
have many 2 bedroom units though.....

 

[rickandcindy23]

Hi Rick and Cindy,

I am sorry, but you are incorrect in your perceptions of RHV trading value throughout the year. I thought the best way to demonstrate this was to cut and paste the utilization from our latest (2006) RCI Annual Flex Report. It gets a little jumbled in the process, but you can see that in Jan of 2006 RCI utilized nearly 99% of all weeks deposited by RHV in weeks. In fact, utilization year round is extremely impressive. You'll note very little inventory is deposited to RCI in the summer months, because our owners primarily use those weeks at RHV. Rocky Mountain National Park has historically been Colorado's most visited destination (approximately 3 million visitors a year). RCI has less than 150 units in affiliated inventory in Estes Park. I have spoken to the manager of the Craigs, and she tells me that owner use (not exchange) is the primary emphasis of her owners too. The Worldmark (aka Trendswest, Wyndam, etc) from my understanding keeps most of its inventory for their members. Trading value with RCI is based in large part both on supply and demand. The percentages below not only demonstrate that exchange values at RHV are extremely high, but also that RCI members that want to vacation at RHV should own here becuse exchanging in is extremely difficult. I should also mention here that 75% of the weeks uxchanged into RHV through RCI were our own owners doing internal exchanges back into RHV in order to facilitate reunions, longer stays, and use from one year to the next. Hope this clarifies things. Deborah, GM


RCI Weeks (Intervals) RCI Points (Nights)
Year Month Supply 1-4-1 non 1-4-1 Tot Usg Utilization Supply Usage Utilization
2006 Jan 75 61 13 74 98.7% 4 4 100.0%
Feb 119 100 14 114 95.8% 10 10 100.0%
Mar 104 97 4 101 97.1% 0 0 0
Apr 143 131 7 138 96.5% 14 14 100.0%
May 44 44 0 44 100.0% 18 18 100.0%
Jun 38 37 0 37 97.4% 24 24 100.0%
Jul 5 5 0 5 100.0% 0 0 0
Aug 22 22 0 22 100.0% 7 7 100.0%
Sep 60 58 2 60 100.0% 0 0 0
Oct 32 32 0 32 100.0% 0 0 0
Nov 35 35 0 35 100.0% 0 0 0
Dec 59 47 4 51 86.4% 21 21 100.0%
736 669 44 713 96.9% 98 98 100.0%

Colorado is very popular, but that doesn't mean that trade power is high for our blue and white weeks. It is what you might expect, for OFF SEASON.

For example, our Val Chatelle in Frisco, Summit County blue weeks (we own 5 weeks at this resort, two blue) are always occupied--always. I just added a second blue week because our fees are $416 and we can pull Orlando any time of year, which is our favorite vacation destination. We can also get anything at the last minute, including Hawaii, which I love about RCI. Ski weeks are rarely deposited into RCI, and summer is just a beautiful time to be there. Our maintenance fees are $440 for 1,900 square feet units with private hot tubs on each deck, so the board manages it well. Breckenridge and Dillon/ Frisco area is highly valued. This is not unique to Estes Park. I think since Ram's Horn is selling off the rest of the developer inventory, the prices are going to be way too high to even consider, but that is my opinion.

I plan to watch the auction with great interest. Lowly old Twin Rivers, Pines at Meadowridge, Silverado, and Indian Peaks are all basically giving away summer deeded weeks. We are 31 miles from Twin Rivers to the entrance of Rocky Mountain National Park. I am on the board at Twin Rivers and we share the same management company with the other three resorts and get silent auction forms in every billing for all four resorts. The weeks don't get many bids. We accept any bid we get.

 

[mmthomas]

I received this email from AJ KARAS, the auctioneer.

The auction is in a "High Bidder's Choice" format. The high bidder can choose which ever weeks and as many as he wants at the high bid price from the available inventory.

That would indicate individual units will not be auctioned in sequence. I have not yet received an answer to what will happen if the high bidder does not take all the units.

 

[colovaca]

no reserve weeks go last?

http://www.nationalauctionlist.com/glossary.php defines the process as they start over again for another round of bidding after the first "winner" makes a selection. But how does that play with any reserve? The only thing that seems consistent with the announcment is that if at the time the price sinks to the reserve, if more than50 weeks remain, they will sell at least 50.

 

[TerriJ]

Just to back up the utilization numbers. I tried to get this resort trhough RCI, for a few weeks anyway, and did not have any luck. I was trying for the last week in August, after the kids were back in school. I ended up renting there.

 

[mmthomas]

In a phone conversation with the auctioneer, I was told the owner will be present and make decisons in real time on which units will be accepted for the high bid in each round. I was told he is not intending any red weeks to be sold for less than his undisclosed reserve. He did make a commitment to the auctioneer to sell 50 units, but not which units. The auctioneer expects only the low seasons to go at low prices.

The impression I got was that the owner is hoping to unload all the units to one buyer. The auctioneer said that most inquiries so far are from individuals.

 

[riverdees05]

Did anyone go to or log on the Auction? I signed up, but was unable to particpate.

 

[mmthomas]

I was not there. They do have some units left they are selling at the auction prices.

AUCTION PRICING
Season A $8,100.00 per week
Season B $3,250.00 per week
Season C $1,700.00 per week

Package Discount on specific units
Season A, B & C $ 10,500.00 total

 

[riverdees05]

What is season A, B and C? If one is interested do they just contact the Auction Company?

 

[colovaca]

A,B,C weeks

Log onto the RHV site for the calendar of which weeks fall into each category. IF I recall correctly, summer, Christmas and New years are A, prime winter is B and post folliage fall and mud spring are C. It is a little complicated because RCI ranks the weeks red and white only.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The four weeks of January are not considered to be prime time at all, which is a clue that it isn't a ski resort. I know Gibson was hoping to convey that it is a reasonable drive to Eldora, but I think 90 minutes to skiing is way too far.

I think those prices were way to high, even though I love Estes Park. I appreciate the day trips, when we drive from Winter Park to Trail Ridge Road and end up in Estes Park for a day. When you consider so many resorts in Winter Park/ Fraser that are basically giving weeks away.................

 

[colovaca]

Sorry. I didn't mean to mis-use a term of art for you pros. By "prime" I meant the good part of winter - when you can snow shoe, cross-x, photogragh winter scenes etc.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Sorry. I didn't mean to mis-use a term of art for you pros. By "prime" I meant the good part of winter - when you can snow shoe, cross-x, photogragh winter scenes etc.

I wasn't correcting you. I was just saying that according to RCI, the January months are white season, which is a clue that it isn't anywhere close to downhill skiing.

 

[Robert D]

I talked to a lady at the auction company today. Cindy's explanation is correct - the A weeks are the summer weeks and weeks 51/52. I think the A weeks are the only ones worth buying. I asked how many weeks that they had up for the auction and how many they sold. She said they had about 500 weeks to sell (lot more than I would have guessed) and also said that "hundreds" were sold. If they had 500 to sell, that's about 25% of the total since they ony have 46 units. They are asking $8,100 for the A weeks and that price supposedly expires on Wednesday. I asked how much the A weeks sold for at the auction and she said some went for $6,750. Also, she said that the weeks are floating within the three seasons but that the units are fixed, which I've not heard of before. So, if you own unit "X" for the summer, then you will get unit "X" and not unit Y or Z when you reserve your week. All the TS's I've seen either have fixed weeks and fixed units or both the week and unit float. This said, you need to know something about the unit you buy and you can bet that they ones they are selling cheap will be the worst located ones.

I agree with Cindy in that the price seems very high. RHV is in a good location but it's right next to a trailer park, not in the mountains, and it's not a resort like Marriott or Starwood, but basically nice accomodations.

 

[riverdees05]

I own one resort where the unit is fixed and the week floats. For prime time, you are competing against all the other owners for that week. It can be difficult to get the week you want. I wouldn't buy into that situation, again.

 

[Robert D]

I was wondering if anyone bought anything at the Ram's Horn auction or heard more about how much they sold or had left over.

 

[Deb from NC]

I did put in a (low) bid, but didn't get a week. I believe I heard they sold 60 weeks (?) or so at the auction, then extended auction pricing until at least December 1. I'm also interested to know if any Tug members bought a week!
Deb

 

[Robert D]

It sounds like they have a lot of unsold weeks. Most are probably in the offseason.

 

[colovaca]

The last time I checked, there were weeks available all seasons, but more C weeks than anything else and MMThomas' message above has the correct prices which do not seem to be negotiable.