Purchase IPADs for Board Members

[ace2000]

How do we know that this stuff isn't happening at other places? How can we as owners really know for sure? What incentive is there to control costs and salaries?

This type of purchase could have been easily buried in the operating costs. However, this time it was made visible, and it's a good example of why maintenance fees at most resorts continue to rise higher than the inflation rate over the last 10 years.

 

[timeos2]

How do we know that this stuff isn't happening at other places? How can we as owners really know for sure? What incentive is there to control costs and salaries?

This type of purchase could have been easily buried in the operating costs. However, this time it was made visible, and it's a good example of why maintenance fees at most resorts continue to rise higher than the inflation rate over the last 10 years.

While any resort/Association can have abuses it seems to occur with unsettling frequency in Associations that are controlled by developers. It is a case where power corrupts and there are virtually no checks and balances in place. Few pay close attention to exactly what all those growing numbers on the annual budget actually represent. If they did then there should be far more questions like this one and a much bigger uproar over the often massive bad debt lines in far too many cases.

Unless the amount your resort(s) charge are so meaningless to you that you don't care where it's going I urge every owner to take the 30 minutes or so a year it requires to really look at the annual budget. Email or call your resort about questionable areas - you'll likely find them especially if about the only information you get each year is that budget & billing.

Pay close attention to these critical areas:

• Collections/Bad Debt
• Cost of Management (this one may really shock you!)
• Reserve funding & remaining life of assets

It really isn't tough to do and it may set off some alarm bells that YOU need to get involved in how YOUR money is being spent. We're usually talking about millions of dollars annually. It is well worth the effort to make sure you're getting what you're paying plenty for.

 

[timeos2]

That's how I can get voted as a Board member, report that I have my OWN iPad!

NOT at any resort that I sit on a Board for! What a total ripoff of the owners. They should be embarrassed that it was even proposed forget actually being implemented. What Board member doesn't have a pc of their own to "view electronic information"? This is total BS.

And I realize you were joking but this isn't a joke to the owners that have been saddled with a luxury expense they certainly shouldn't have been charged for.

 

[Remy]

An e-mail which I expect will be quickly deleted:
To: input@hgvc.com

Are the iPads that HGVC bought for Association BOD’s the property of HGVC or the Associations?
Will Board members be allowed to retain the iPads after they leave the Board?
Was it decided that Association BOD’s could not receive meeting materials with their own devices?
Will Board members be expected to pay for personal use of their iPads?

Perhaps Mr. Kreiger would like to address this issue in the next issue of Grand Times.
Or perhaps I and my fellow owners should ask these questions at an “owners update"?”

Well put. There are so many ridiculous parallels here that this should have been obviously and soundly defeated as a proposal.

"Hey, guys we need to have conference calls. Okay, let's get all the board member's iPhones."

 

[phil1ben]

I wrote a letter expressing my outrage to my Board at South Beach. It is important to keep in mind that this whole idea was originated with HGVC (Blackstone). It appears that the provision in the Minutes is identical from Property to Property. I will follow up my first letter with a second letter demanding that all Board Members immediately personally reimburse the Operating Funds in an amount equal to the cost of each iPad (and any wireless plan purchased).

 

[Remy]

I wrote a letter expressing my outrage to my Board at South Beach. It is important to keep in mind that this whole idea was originated with HGVC (Blackstone). It appears that the provision in the Minutes is identical from Property to Property. I will follow up my first letter with a second letter demanding that all Board Members immediately personally reimburse the Operating Funds in an amount equal to the cost of each iPad (and any wireless plan purchased).

They bought the ones with 3G? For the love of jeebus that's obscene. Are they taking a home-office deduction for their "work" on the board too?

 

[rjp123]

This is crazy!

I wrote a letter expressing my outrage to my Board at South Beach. It is important to keep in mind that this whole idea was originated with HGVC (Blackstone). It appears that the provision in the Minutes is identical from Property to Property. I will follow up my first letter with a second letter demanding that all Board Members immediately personally reimburse the Operating Funds in an amount equal to the cost of each iPad (and any wireless plan purchased).

Post your letter and the address you sent it to. I will do the same at South Beach.

 

[UWSurfer]

After thinking about this for awhile I'm not sure this is as big a deal as we're making it out to be.

For purposes of discussion let's assume for a moment that an iPad costs $800 equipped with whatever features it has, & that there are five board members at HGVC, making it an outlay of $4000. (I suspect they are less than that, particularly if HGVC is making a group buy, but we'll say $800).

Lets also assume that the resort has 100 units (most have many more) and that each unit is available 50 times a year, making 5000 ownerships at any given resort. That means using this easy math, that it costs each owner 80 cents for the board to have iPads, or less than the cost of postage for two mailings.

Now know that most HGVC's have far more than 100 units so that 80 cents likely drops below less than 25 cents in many instances and everyone benefits by having the board on the same platform with the same abilities. It would be very possible to have the board meet via video conference with these without leaving their own home, work or wherever they happen to be just about any time of the year.

I've not served on a timeshare board, but I've been on plenty of civic group boards where we've discussed meeting on-line & the problem every single time we try to set these up are technical issues as so & so does't have a current machine that would support an audio & video session, someone else has windows but can't read mac documents or vice versa. The possibilities these iPads provide for getting the board on the same page/platform in a seamless manner offers quite a bit of value.

Yes there are other ways of doing it & yes a pdf document can be read by most platforms regardless, & yes teleconferences can be done as well for little or no costs, although in most business settings they do cost some money. For the amounts we're talking about I'm thinking this is not such bad move after all.

As to the iPads belonging to the association, yes that should be made clear but given that most seats on the board run two years, and assuming that someone leaves after that period, the technology will likely have changed enough that it wouldn't want it back anyways.

I'm presently using a MacBook Pro laptop, an upgrade from the Macbook I carried for the past 2-1/2 years and the integration & abilities it offers in audio and video surpasses anything I can do with our standard windows machines in the office. My kid carries an iPad for school, is extremely productive and has many of the same features as my laptop for much less money.

No folks, I think HGVC might very well have the right idea getting everyone on the same platform for a reasonable cost to owners that will save everyone time and money moving forward. And no, I don't expect many to agree with me.

 

[Remy]

that will save everyone time and money moving forward

What kind of urgency is there for a timeshare board? I have yet to see minutes posted for an emergency meeting. And how does a fleeting technology product that costs a minimum of $500 per board member reduce cost? Postal rates aren't that high.

 

[timeos2]

After thinking about this for awhile I'm not sure this is as big a deal as we're making it out to be.

No folks, I think HGVC might very well have the right idea getting everyone on the same platform for a reasonable cost to owners that will save everyone time and money moving forward. And no, I don't expect many to agree with me.

Of course we appreciate your thoughts and opinion. I have to disagree as strongly as I can. Being a Board member is not a license to get perks or make any money. It is volunteering your time - in the case of HOA's for no monetary gain - to serve your fellow owners. It is far beyond stretching the idea to include purchase of tangible items on the HOA dime and assigning them - or worse giving them - to Board members. I would think any auditor would flag this as a blatant abuse.

Your theory seems a rather tortured justification to me. If this is the prevailing way of operating of "upscale" resort systems no wonder the fees are so outrageous! Remember, Hilton is the group that OK'd $5000+ for at least one Board member to go to a meeting in NYC when the resort was in the Islands. What possible reason could there be for that? And that is where this type of free spending can go if unchallenged by the owners.

Every dollar collected should be going to the resort operation & maintenance. These type of expenses are way above what can be justified IMO. I'll bet more owners agree with that plan than the iPad for all one.

 

[UWSurfer]

How about the saving of travel expenses, lodging, food & the like?

How about the ability to meet anywhere, anytime without further expense or inconvenience?

How about reduced staff costs in preparing for a meeting place, the conference rooms, any food & coffee service that might be brought in, printing, power point projectors, phone bridges if some members aren't present? All these do have real costs associated with them too, and don't think for a minute they are doing it on the cheap either.

Having dealt with this elsewhere, spending $500 per volunteer board member isn't really that much, even if it adds an additional 20 cents or a $1 to my MF costs.

It's not like the board voted for a free round of golf or items that are non-related. This is a tool which can significantly reduce the expenses above while expanding what they can do with them.

 

[ace2000]

How about the saving of travel expenses, lodging, food & the like?

How about the ability to meet anywhere, anytime without further expense or inconvenience?

How about just making sure that all board members have a computer before they run? Who doesn't have a computer in today's world?

The video conferencing stuff works on all computers that have access to the Internet.

So, unless you can come up with a compelling reason to run a video conference on an Ipad (you can't), then all of your arguments are not valid.

 

[phil1ben]

How about the saving of travel expenses, lodging, food & the like?

How about the ability to meet anywhere, anytime without further expense or inconvenience?

How about reduced staff costs in preparing for a meeting place, the conference rooms, any food & coffee service that might be brought in, printing, power point projectors, phone bridges if some members aren't present? All these do have real costs associated with them too, and don't think for a minute they are doing it on the cheap either.

Having dealt with this elsewhere, spending $500 per volunteer board member isn't really that much, even if it adds an additional 20 cents or a $1 to my MF costs.

It's not like the board voted for a free round of golf or items that are non-related. This is a tool which can significantly reduce the expenses above while expanding what they can do with them.

I started all of this and the point is that I very strongly suspect all Board members already have a computer where they can receive a pdf file. There was no reason to spend at least $3-4,000.00 per HGVC property to buy both Board members and staff a new iPad. The Resolution for South Beach included new iPads for certain staff at the hotel. For example at South Beach the money could have been used to buy umbrellas and beach chairs so owners don't have to rent them at $50.00 per day. I am sure there are countless other places where the money could have been better spent. This was a needless and improper waste of operating funds.

 

[UWSurfer]

Has anyone here actually done this? That is to say, take an existing group of strangers sitting on a board and get them to do a video conference on their computers? Two way video?

If the boards were comprised by people under the age of 25 I'd say sure, they likely have the ability to do this independent of the resort and I wouldn't support the idea. Most of the board members I've seen in the t/s world are significantly older, and a significant number of them own & use computers that aren't up to the task.

As I noted in my not such a bad idea post, I've had the experience with several other boards at the community level (PTA, Scouts, advocacy groups) and there are differing levels of expertise, technical savvy and computing power. Those systems which do work on wide platforms cost $$ too.

An iPad with G3 capability eliminates all this and puts in their hands something that just simply works right out of the box, and I think most here are missing that. Its an investment in running the resort, not a perk. The resort is a business, not a hobby. $500 (or $800) for five people is not a major financial investment and I think we loose sight of that because it's shiny new technology in the hands of a select few that some view as status symbols.

Heck, owning a timeshare is a status symbol. I'm as cost conscious as anyone on all sorts of fronts, but I really don't think this is money mis-spent. I also should say I have no interest in this at all other than as an owner of two HGVC weeks.

 

[ace2000]

I am an owner at HGVC South Beach. I just read the May 11, 2011 Board Minutes and saw that the Board voted to buy each Board Member an IPAD so that meeting minutes can be delivered electronically.

If you read the OP's original post, you'll see that the justification for purchasing the Ipads is to read meeting minutes.

Not sure why we're even going down this videoconferencing path. However, I'll say it again... any decent computer with Internet access can do videoconferencing. check out www.gotomeeting.com

 

[UWSurfer]

If you read the OP's original post, you'll see that the justification for purchasing the Ipads is to read meeting minutes.

Not sure why we're even going down this videoconferencing path. However, I'll say it again... any decent computer with Internet access can do videoconferencing. check out www.gotomeeting.com

True, I am expanding what the minutes said to the potential of a virtual meeting on-line (i.e.: video conferencing).

Now, if you go to the BUY GOTO MEETING link, you'll note: "Buy GoToMeeting and enjoy unlimited meetings for $49 per month." It has a free trial, but it's not a free product. Thats nearly $600 per person, about the same or more than purchasing a full featured iPad.

Like I said, I've been down this road before.

 

[timeos2]

Boards that take the easy way out and "meet" by teleconference or video conference from work/home/wherever aren't doing the job. You need to be on site to see for yourself what things look like, hw things are operating, what needs attention, etc. Trying to "meet" by electronics is OK for a quick one or two subject emergency or id someone can't make a particular meeting but wants to participate but to regularly use it as the primary way to operate would be derelict in my view.

Far too easy for that already expensive management to pull the wool over a Board eyes if they fail to see them for themselves. Even then it can be tough to find out what is really happening. I've been down THAT road as well. It wasn't pretty in the long run and rightfully led to a battle for control. It never would have happened if the Board had sat at the other end of a video conference a few times a year. Bad idea.

 

[UWSurfer]

Boards that take the easy way out and "meet" by teleconference or video conference from work/home/wherever aren't doing the job. You need to be on site to see for yourself what things look like, hw things are operating, what needs attention, etc. Trying to "meet" by electronics is OK for a quick one or two subject emergency or id someone can't make a particular meeting but wants to participate but to regularly use it as the primary way to operate would be derelict in my view.

Far too easy for that already expensive management to pull the wool over a Board eyes if they fail to see them for themselves. Even then it can be tough to find out what is really happening. I've been down THAT road as well. It wasn't pretty in the long run and rightfully led to a battle for control. It never would have happened if the Board had sat at the other end of a video conference a few times a year. Bad idea.

Good point John.

 

[ace2000]

True, I am expanding what the minutes said to the potential of a virtual meeting on-line (i.e.: video conferencing).

Now, if you go to the BUY GOTO MEETING link, you'll note: "Buy GoToMeeting and enjoy unlimited meetings for $49 per month." It has a free trial, but it's not a free product. Thats nearly $600 per person, about the same or more than purchasing a full featured iPad.

Like I said, I've been down this road before.

I apologize to the OP because we're on a tangent here. GoToMeeting.com is the Internet service and it's the software that allows you to perform videoconferencing. I thought it would address your concerns about the hardware necessary and demonstrate how common videoconferencing is. It is not the camera and it is not the computer, and both of those are going to be necessary regardless of what method of video you want to use.

Want to share with us why you so strongly believe an iPad is necessary to do video? What would be the advantages of an iPad over a PC?

 

[UWSurfer]

I apologize to the OP because we're on a tangent here. GoToMeeting.com is the Internet service and it's the software that allows you to perform videoconferencing. I thought it would address your concerns about the hardware necessary and demonstrate how common videoconferencing is. It is not the camera and it is not the computer, and both of those are going to be necessary regardless of what method of video you want to use.

Want to share with us why you so strongly believe an iPad is necessary to do video? What would be the advantages of an iPad over a PC?

Not really. I think I've already stated the reasons in my previous replies based on experiences with other boards.

In taking a position opposite of the thread I am offering up reasons why I could see this being justifiable, not wasteful. Personally I hate it when I hear folks objecting to expenditures based on perceived waste and privilege & not looking at the potential benefits something like this might have in running the resort. I think I made some reasonable arguments, if not played devils advocate.

John however makes an excellent point about the need for board members to be on-site regularly & I agree with that.

 

[JM48]

Is it legal to have any meetings by electronic means?
These meetings are suppose to be open to all of the owners how are we going to attend a meeting held by way of a computer?

JM

 

[phil1ben]

Allow me to quote from the offending minutes, "All future material would be sent to the Board members electronically by providing each Board member an iPad".

There is no intention or desire to curtail onsite meetings. The sole purpose of the iPad purchase was to view pdf files. The Surfer is trying to rationalize the purchase by inventing a use for the iPad which is neither expressed nor desired. Obviously, there is a benefit of Board members attending meetings in person at the site and viewing the conditions of the facility together and personally.

I'll say it again the wasted money arises because the purchase was solely to review pdf documents which every Board member can view on their own computers or by going to the library (or simply sending the documents hard copy).

 

[Andythefox]

Not that I could even justify this, but if the sole legitimate reason is to view .PDF files why can't they use $200 netbooks or Kindles?

This stinks to high hell!

 

[ace2000]

How often does this type of thing occur at other resorts? Can someone provide a list of names that took part in this?

 

[Hiram]

After thinking about this for awhile I'm not sure this is as big a deal as we're making it out to be.

For purposes of discussion let's assume for a moment that an iPad costs $800 equipped with whatever features it has, & that there are five board members at HGVC, making it an outlay of $4000. (I suspect they are less than that, particularly if HGVC is making a group buy, but we'll say $800).

Lets also assume that the resort has 100 units (most have many more) and that each unit is available 50 times a year, making 5000 ownerships at any given resort. That means using this easy math, that it costs each owner 80 cents for the board to have iPads, or less than the cost of postage for two mailings.

Now know that most HGVC's have far more than 100 units so that 80 cents likely drops below less than 25 cents in many instances and everyone benefits by having the board on the same platform with the same abilities. It would be very possible to have the board meet via video conference with these without leaving their own home, work or wherever they happen to be just about any time of the year.



My two cents,

I would have to agree, especially when each of us that owns just received a 2012 Member Guide in the mail. This are beautiful, expensive looking books? Why can't this be emailed to each owner (at a savings that far exceeds the Ipad purchases)?

I've only been an owner for 6 months, and I have already received 2 member guides! Before purchasing, I found TUG, and I found someone had posted a link to the 2011 member guide. I printed most of it, and learned enough to make me want to purchase. If we are really discussing cost savings, let's start there. How much does printing and mailing a book to each member actually cost?