purchase agreement and SS#

[irish]

is it necessary to give my SS# on a purchase agreement?? credit card went thru
so why SS# needed??
thanks

 

[Dave M]

It's not.

If you were the seller, your S.S. # would be required if the buyer is a corporation or the sale is handled buy a broker, attorney or closing compant. That entity must report your sale to the I.R.S.

However, if you are a buyer, there should generally be no need for anyone involved in the transaction to have your number. If someone insists, ask why your number is needed.

 

[irish]

thanks dave. we can always count on you to come thru.

 

[JimIg23]

From the SSA website:

You should be very careful about sharing your number and card to protect against misuse of your number. Giving your number is voluntary even when you are asked for the number directly. If requested, you should ask:

Why your number is needed;
How your number will be used;
What happens if you refuse; and
What law requires you to give your number.
The answers to these questions can help you decide if you want to give your Social Security number. The decision is yours

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10002.html#protect

 

[janapur]

In purchasing 12 timeshare resales, I've been asked for my ss# each time but never given it. It has never been requested twice, nor has any closing company addressed my refusal to provide it. Just put NA.

Jana

 

[ttt]

Some resorts require social security numbers. Their intent is to wreck your credit if you fail to pay your fees or abandon your timeshare. I can understand the resorts concern as many buyers are paying $1.00 or similar low purchase price and stand willing to walk away from their purchase if they don't like the location of the unit or if maint. fees are raised or for whatever other/any reason the buyer may have. It's alot easier to walk away from a $1.00 purchase, but not as easy if your credit gets blemished.

 

[Dave M]

That's true.

There is no law that requires you to provide your Social Security number to a private business. However, there is no law that prevents a business from asking you for your number as a condition of doing business with you. Thus, you can refuse. However, if you do, that business (e.g., a timeshare resort) might refuse to do business with you (e.g., refuse to recognize you as an owner).

 

[johnmfaeth]

Wyndham Resorts is one example of a timeshare company that will not transfer ownership to your name without your SS# and Date of Birth. It is exactly how a previous poster stated.

They need this info to collect when you go into default on your MF's/assessments.

The entire financial world revolves around identifying you by SS#.

You can always get away with telling the closing company that you will only supply it directly to the resort management company's closing person.

You are much more likely to be a victim of credit fraud from more conventional sources like a waiter "lifting" your card info. That is about 100 times more common that someone opening accounts in your name because they obtained your identifying info.

John

 

[rsonc]

Paradise Village in Mexico also asked us for our ss# before they could transfer it.

Susan

 

[JimJ]

No one ever said a mistake couldn't be made when giving the number.

A few years back Wal-mart was always asking for a phone # when I used my credit card. I always gave 1-800-555-1212

 

[johnmfaeth]

Supplying an incorrect SS # is not a good idea. One use of this information is issuing a 1099 for taxable income if the resort ever rents your unit.

Now you are in the zone of a federal crime....

 

[ctyatty]

never buy a timeshare in your personal name

Some resorts require social security numbers. Their intent is to wreck your credit if you fail to pay your fees or abandon your timeshare.

Which is why the purchase should always be by a trust or other separate legal entity so you can tell them to go pound sand if the deal goes south over time.

 

[madherb]

Let me get this right. This was not about the deal not closing but about non-payment of future fees. Do you advocate walking away from your obligations if down the road you decide for some reason you don't want the week any more? Even more you suggest creating a legal entity to help shelter you from any effort on the part of the wronged party to collect.

As an owner I want the others to pay their fees. Everybody that does as you suggest hurts the others who likely had nothing to do with whatever caused the dissatisfaction.

 

[Dave M]

I wouldn't worry that ctyatty's suggestion will take hold. I don't believe a competent attorney would recommend that a client set up a separate entity for the purposes espoused by ctyatty.

From a practical standpoint, such attempts would likely not shield an individual from MF responsibility in the event the individual chooses to "abandon" the timeshare and stop paying fees.

There is ample case law allowing the courts to pierce the corporate (or other entity) veil and assign responsibility to the underlying individual(s) where the entity is used as the alter ego of the individual. In the case of a timeshare that is normally used or exchanged by the individual or by his/her friends or relatives for personal purposes, it should be relatively easy for the HOA to collect the fees. As examples, Google “corporate veil” (in quotes) and read any of the first few hits.

There are legitimate estate and family planning reasons to set up a trust. However, with most such trusts properly formed, the underlying individual will still have responsibility for the fees, as long as he/she is living.

As for a corporation, the restrictive tax rules that apply to timeshares along with the expense of setting up, maintaining and complying with the filing requirements for a corporation make such an idea impractical from an economic standpoint.

 

[Tokapeba]

Other unnecessary information

Other unnecessary information

I’m buying a WorldMark membership and I just got off the phone with the Transfer department and the woman insists that they need to know who my employer is, who my closest relative not living with me is and any other address that I have lived at in the last 2 years, for my wife and I. I don’t understand why they need both our birth dates. She said that they don’t need my social security number, but the missing information could slow down the transfer.

I'm happy to give them my name address and telephone number, but there is no loan, why do they need everything else?

Andy.

 

[Dave M]

I can see asking for closest relative. In the event that a catastrophe occurs while you are staying at a Worldmark, they will have someone to contact.

 

[Tokapeba]

I can see asking for closest relative. In the event that a catastrophe occurs while you are staying at a Worldmark, they will have someone to contact.

If that's the case, why don't hotels or resorts ask for it when you check in?

Andy.

 

[philemer]

I can see asking for closest relative. In the event that a catastrophe occurs while you are staying at a Worldmark, they will have someone to contact.

Or, so they can trace you easier if you turn into a deadbeat!!

Phil

 

[johnmfaeth]

To All Reading This Thread,

Be VERY CAREFUL before supplying misleading or incorrect information to a resort. Just having monthly fee installments versus an annual bill is considered an extension of credit by many resorts.

Lying when getting credit of any form is a federal crime in this country. Those who argue this point should ask any lawyer. Or call your local county prosecuter, they'll tell you immediately. It just is....don't bother posting that I'm wrong....

If you have that many privacy concerns, just say no. If the resort will not do the transfer. Then expect to lose any monies paid as deposit to the purchaser as any court in the land will agree that you did not act in good faith as a normal person would do.

It's funny how many people are afraid of this but will hand a waiter their credit card and have him walk away with it for 5 minutes. Plenty of time to run it through an inexpensive pocket reader that copies the magnetic strip. Or even just transcribe the numbers and CID. That's the source of the great majority of fraud, not timeshare companies.

But don't lie, that's just a bad idea...

John

 

[Garnet]

SS# needed for tax purposes

ok-I started to quickly skim the posts...but, when we purchased our first T/S, it was a resale from an AUSTRALIAN (a foreign individual...that the IRS cares about).

In our paperwork, in the "SS place" on the the forms, he had a "tax ID". We also had to fill out a SPECIAL IRS FROM (I forget the form #-at the time I was a public accountant and looked up a bunch of this stuff). Anyway, since it was a REAL ESTATE TRANSACTION (key word), if he has made a profit, he would have had USA taxes withheld at the maximum rate. He would then have to file a return for any refund that might be available.

For most T/S sales/purchases, this doesn't make a difference (as most don't make a profit on selling their T/S....) BUT-for other real estate transactions (homes) it can make a huge difference. Blame it on the wild real estate market. If the SS number (or governmental ID) was never provided, there would be a lot of foreigners making tax free big bucks.

But yes-these are T/S purchases-another exception to complicate the tax code...

That said, I believe there are firms that don't require or care about SS#'s...after all it is a T/S!

 

[Dave M]

if he has made a profit, he would have had USA taxes withheld at the maximum rate. He would then have to file a return for any refund that might be available.

Actually, according to the tax law, the tax withholding requirement applies whether or not there is a gain on the sale. That's because the person responsible for withholding (the buyer, the closing company, the attorney or other person or entity handling the closing) can't always determine for sure whether the seller had a gain or not.

The withholding requirement generally applies upon the sale of U.S. real estate (including a timeshare) by a non-U.S. citizen who resides in a country other than the U.S. See this past thread for more info, including a link to info that describes exceptions.

 

[Carol C]

To All Reading This Thread,

Be VERY CAREFUL before supplying misleading or incorrect information to a resort. Just having monthly fee installments versus an annual bill is considered an extension of credit by many resorts.

Lying when getting credit of any form is a federal crime in this country. Those who argue this point should ask any lawyer. Or call your local county prosecuter, they'll tell you immediately. It just is....don't bother posting that I'm wrong....

If you have that many privacy concerns, just say no. If the resort will not do the transfer. Then expect to lose any monies paid as deposit to the purchaser as any court in the land will agree that you did not act in good faith as a normal person would do.

It's funny how many people are afraid of this but will hand a waiter their credit card and have him walk away with it for 5 minutes. Plenty of time to run it through an inexpensive pocket reader that copies the magnetic strip. Or even just transcribe the numbers and CID. That's the source of the great majority of fraud, not timeshare companies.

But don't lie, that's just a bad idea...

John

Truer words were never spoken. (At least not on *this* topic!)

 

[Dave M]

Lying when getting credit of any form is a federal crime in this country.

As proof, straight from the Federal Trade Commission:

You could be charged and prosecuted for mail or wire fraud if you use the mail or telephone to apply for credit and provide false information. It’s a federal crime to lie on a loan or credit application, to misrepresent your Social Security number....

Although a simple reading of that language might induce the reader to believe it doesn't apply to situations such as those discussed in this thread, make no mistake. The provision is far-reaching. Consider that when a resort is deciding whether to recognize you as a new owner, that decision is often based on the expectation that the resort or HOA will be extending credit to you for the future payment of maintenance fees and (if applicable) special assessments.

 

[ctyatty]

Do you advocate walking away from your obligations if down the road you decide for some reason you don't want the week any more? Even more you suggest creating a legal entity to help shelter you from any effort on the part of the wronged party to collect.

You have a screwball attitude. Someone wants to sell you something that might become a liability in the future, and you think it is wrong to create a separate legal entity to take on that risk? Get with it, ever heard of the stock market, the shareholders are not liable like when Kmart went bankrupt.

 

[ctyatty]

Other unnecessary information

I’m buying a WorldMark membership and I just got off the phone with the Transfer department and the woman insists that they need to know who my employer is, who my closest relative not living with me is and any other address that I have lived at in the last 2 years, for my wife and I. I don’t understand why they need both our birth dates. She said that they don’t need my social security number, but the missing information could slow down the transfer.

I'm happy to give them my name address and telephone number, but there is no loan, why do they need everything else?

Andy.

Another example of abuse by the timeshare industry, this information is none of their business, tell them no.