• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Postal Cuts To Slow First-Class Mail

Patri

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
6,823
Reaction score
4,178
Points
648
The ramifications are pretty severe. Especially for people paying bills by mail. And that method is going to occur for many years yet, so don't anyone start the 'pay online' mantra. Not everyone can do that, based on their internet connections, financial stability, etc.
Plus, the businesses that rely on timely delivery of their products. What a mess.
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,629
Reaction score
7,470
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
1-day delivery of 1st class mail was not set as a national standard until 1971.
As I said in another thread, IMHO, we've been spoiled.
Anyone who thinks such service should be had for 44 or 45 cents is out-to-lunch.
 

JeffW

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
11
Points
398
Location
Philadelphia
The ramifications are pretty severe. Especially for people paying bills by mail...

I've heard complaints about that, but don't understand it. Most bills come in with at least a 20 day "due by" date. So, if you're waiting to basically 1-2 days before then to mail your payment, and now it takes longer, the problem is with the US Postal Service?

Without wanting to get too political, IMHO, the reality is that costs for too many things have been too low for some time, because they aren't properly factoring in future costs. The big jumps in costs, or cutbacks in service, is the reality of these costs finally kicking in.

With the Post Office specifically, that delivery standard was set back when US Mail was the only delivery service available. Once email and the web came online, one could say that receipt of information, and transfer of funds, can still happen in one day (or less). It's just that snail mail doesn't need to hold up the burden of that.

The reality is you can't hold onto old technologies forever. There were complaints how poor people would loose tv access then over the air broadcasts were ended. They did extend that date, but eventually they turned them off. Cable companies have been doing similiar migration: it used to be you could just hook up a cable-ready tv, and get all your channels. Now you need some type of set top box. One day it might be paperback books, because there are so many e-readers out.

Bottom line, once a new technology comes out that can perform a previous task better, one shouldn't be surprised that older technology starts to get degraded, if not completely eliminated.

Jeff
 

Tia

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,373
Reaction score
488
Points
468
Double the rates on junk mail might be a terrific idea for them, less is more when it come to that arriving in my box.
 

vacationhopeful

TUG Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
12,760
Reaction score
1,699
Points
498
Location
Northeast USA
I've heard complaints about that, but don't understand it. .....Bottom line, once a new technology comes out that can perform a previous task better, one shouldn't be surprised that older technology starts to get degraded, if not completely eliminated....

I could make some serious political comments about "in with the new and out with the old" theory of how the world works. It should NOT be an excuse to provide cell phones, cars, air conditioning, cableTV verses landlines, bus passes, box fans, free over the air TV. Most of these changes were motivated by corporations' market pentatration desires and goals using lobbists and ad campaigns.

In other words and MANY CASES, it is hype verses actual NEED.

The post office was supported by the government (almost as a monopoly) for a reason - it served all the people thru out the land. Create a Tariff on the FOR PROFIT services would certainly change/alter their business profiles.
 

MichaelColey

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
4,925
Reaction score
114
Points
299
Location
Mansfield, TX
Resorts Owned
Palace View Branson (4 Lockouts), Grandview (Points), CMV (UDI), DVC (SSR 25)
Double the rates on junk mail might be a terrific idea for them, less is more when it come to that arriving in my box.
I would love to see that, too.

We ship a lot of stuff First Class (and Priority Mail) with our business, and it's nice knowing that our local customers will get it next day and even neighboring states get their orders in two days. If those take an extra day or two, we'll probably end up shipping more FedEx.

Hmmm... Perhaps it's a good time to buy FDX stock.
 

Pens_Fan

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
605
Reaction score
22
Points
228
Double the rates on junk mail might be a terrific idea for them, less is more when it come to that arriving in my box.

Since that is what is currently supporting the USPO, that might not be a good idea.

If the junk mailers are forced to pay double, maybe they back out as well and then the whole service goes down.
 

AwayWeGo

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
15,763
Reaction score
1,691
Points
699
Location
McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
Resorts Owned
Grandview At Las Vegas

[triennial - points]
After It Happens, I Wonder Whether We'll Even Notice.

Postal Cuts To Slow First-Class Mail
Folks have been calling it "snail mail" for a long time now.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

Fern Modena

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
4,660
Reaction score
4
Points
36
Location
Southern Nevada
The post office will be closing about half the sectional sorting facilities, which is a big reason why this will happen. My area will be fine. If you mail a letter in Reno, NV, instead of having your mail's primary sort done in Reno, it will now be bagged up and sent to Sacramento, CA. If you live in Elko, and mail letters there, your first sort will be somewhere in Wyoming. It will hurt the smaller towns much more than the larger ones. That's how cost cutting works.

Fern
 

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
28,668
Reaction score
17,523
Points
1,299
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
Fern's right. The people in rural area areas will feel the change much more than the urban dwellers. DW's law office generates 1st class mail. Her clients have enjoyed next day delivery of whatever she gets to the post office by 6pm, 6 days a week. When our local sorting facility closes and all the mail is trucked to Boise, sorted and trucked back, it will add another day- minimum- to the turn around time. Possibly two. 3 if it's over the weekend. She has begun sending appointment confirmations by email instead of postal mail.

So much for dropping a Netflix DVD in the mail one day and getting a replacement the next. We dropped the DVD service anyway with their price hike and the knowledge that the local mail sorting facility was closing.

We will get used to the change, and compared to the Post in many other places in the world, US postal service still gives enviable service, it just will never be as good as it is now.

Jim
 

Blues

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,495
Reaction score
506
Points
473
Location
Monterey County CA
I never cease to marvel at bureaucratic thinking. "We're losing business to competition! Let's cut services!" :ignore:

They're supposed to now be an independent business without government support. When are they going to start thinking like competitive business people, and not government burrowcrats? They're driving business to FedEx and UPS and hastening their own demise.

Rather than extend delivery time for everyone, why not just cut delivery days? Cut Saturday delivery. Heck, cut deliver to 3 days/week - M-W-F or Tu-Th-Sa. I'd rather wait for every other day delivery than wait 3-5 days for my letter.

Increase postal rates for first class - 44 cents to get a letter anywhere in the country is a steal! Their competition can't match that, as long as the USPS can continue to provide decent and timely service.

Increase postal rates for bulk mail. Yes, I know it's a good part of their gross revenues. But a wise seer once pointed out that it doesn't work to try to make up in volume for a loss-leader product or service.

Cut employee benefits. Their retirement benefits are one of the major causes of their huge losses. If they're not a government business, they don't need to provide government-style retirement bennies.

I'm willing to pay more for a first class letter, and get my mail less frequently. But only if the result is a lean, mean, competitive postal service that has some chance of surviving. Their current plan is short-sighted, and will worsen the crisis, not solve it.

-Bob
 

itradehilton

TUG Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
710
Reaction score
22
Points
228
I live in a small town and our mail goes 40 miles away to a big town then the big town sends our local mail back to us to be delivered. Thus a letter to a local business takes at least 4 days already. Those DVD's by mail take a week.
 

Patri

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
6,823
Reaction score
4,178
Points
648
I've heard complaints about that, but don't understand it. Most bills come in with at least a 20 day "due by" date. So, if you're waiting to basically 1-2 days before then to mail your payment, and now it takes longer, the problem is with the US Postal Service?

As the article said, with timing, some mail will take a week to arrive, so both ways, that is two weeks out of the grace period. Depending on people's payday, etc. it could be a squeeze.
People do different things for different reasons. I pay a bill pretty much as soon as it arrives. Others delay to earn a little interest on their money. Who knows? It is a reality, even if it is not yours.
Strange as it seems, the sorting machines at the centers are faster and more efficient than having people sort at the post office where the letter is mailed from and will come back to. It also does all the computations I'm sure are necessary. I bet in the local PO the employee can't just take a letter from the drop box and stick it in the right recipient box. Has to be tabulated, cancelled etc. Seems silly to truck the local mail to a regional center, but USPS employees say it is better.
 

JeffW

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
11
Points
398
Location
Philadelphia
Note that there's no physical reason preventing the preservation of the current level of service, other than just more money. I guess there could have been an option to increase prices 10%-20% (or more) to preserve the existing delivery times. However, you'd need enough estimated buy-in on that to offset the expected savings of closing the centers. Once they close those distribution centers, I'm not sure there's any way after to get to those delivery times.

If a main complaint is bill paying time, there are definitely options. Even without a computer, I'd bet that a good number of bills could be setup to do automatic deductions from a bank account (or billing to a credit card). You don't get involved in having to manually initiate payments every month, whether it be interactively with a computer, or with a check and a stamp. [If the problem is that you don't have the funds to pay the bill on time, that's a separate issue.]
There are also multiple programs programs to help provide so-called "universal coverage". I know that fee is collected for phones, I'm not sure if there's a similar internet service provider fee. I know Comcast agreed to a $10/month ISP rate as part of their purchase of NBC Universal for lower income households.

Maybe part of the solution is to better leverage these programs so that the dependency on US Mail (coming and going) is reduced.

Something else to consider (and I know this is radical). Maybe instead of all the cost being on sending mail, there should be some on receiving it. For example, suppose the Post Office said, it would pay me $1/wk to only have mail delivered 3x/wk, vs the current 6x/wk. If I already have most of my time-sensitive material (bills & financials) handled electronically, maybe I don't need to pay more to have it delivery faster or more frequently.
I know this isn't perfect: instead of a carrier taking 8hrs/day 6days/wk to deliver my mail, I'm sure if he had to deliver the same amount in only 3 days, maybe not much net savings of time.

I know almost all companies that bill me want me to switch to electronic delivery. I've yet to, because there's no advantage for me. However, if they all start charging $1/month for paper bills, I'd probably switch in a heartbeat. Maybe there should be a similar option to opt-out of more frequent delivery, if there's a financial incentive for it.

Jeff

Jeff
 

Ken555

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
14,674
Reaction score
5,785
Points
898
Location
Los Angeles
Resorts Owned
Westin Kierland
Sheraton Desert Oasis
I would pay not to receive anything other than first class mail, and have everything else automatically rejected.
 

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
28,668
Reaction score
17,523
Points
1,299
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
<snip>I know almost all companies that bill me want me to switch to electronic delivery. I've yet to, because there's no advantage for me. However, if they all start charging $1/month for paper bills, I'd probably switch in a heartbeat. Maybe there should be a similar option to opt-out of more frequent delivery, if there's a financial incentive for it.

Jeff

My bank recently notified me that it would charge me $3/mo. if I write more than 5 paper checks and $2/mo. for paper statements. The statements usually just sit on my desk unopened anyway. Guess who signed up for electronic statements? I already pay all my bills electronically.

Jim
 

ricoba

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,272
Reaction score
2
Points
323
Location
Metro Los Angeles
I never cease to marvel at bureaucratic thinking. "We're losing business to competition! Let's cut services!" :ignore:

They're supposed to now be an independent business without government support. When are they going to start thinking like competitive business people, and not government burrowcrats? They're driving business to FedEx and UPS and hastening their own demise.

Rather than extend delivery time for everyone, why not just cut delivery days? Cut Saturday delivery. Heck, cut deliver to 3 days/week - M-W-F or Tu-Th-Sa. I'd rather wait for every other day delivery than wait 3-5 days for my letter.

Increase postal rates for first class - 44 cents to get a letter anywhere in the country is a steal! Their competition can't match that, as long as the USPS can continue to provide decent and timely service.

Increase postal rates for bulk mail. Yes, I know it's a good part of their gross revenues. But a wise seer once pointed out that it doesn't work to try to make up in volume for a loss-leader product or service.

Cut employee benefits. Their retirement benefits are one of the major causes of their huge losses. If they're not a government business, they don't need to provide government-style retirement bennies.

I'm willing to pay more for a first class letter, and get my mail less frequently. But only if the result is a lean, mean, competitive postal service that has some chance of surviving. Their current plan is short-sighted, and will worsen the crisis, not solve it.

-Bob

I like this way of thinking. :)

Instead of focus on the problem, come up with some creative and viable solutions.

There's no doubt UPS has to change, since it really has over time outgrown the absolute necessity it once was.

Good post, Bob.
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,629
Reaction score
7,470
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
I, too, have elected electronic statements and pay nearly everything online.
If I get a bill for which I have to mail a check, I say, "What the h---?"

I just read that the Florida Court System may soon move to electronic filing in legal procedings. Litigants + attorneys would need to convert their docs to PDF files and e-mail 'em. If it happens, it could eliminate tons of paper mail.
 

Pens_Fan

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
605
Reaction score
22
Points
228
I never cease to marvel at bureaucratic thinking. "We're losing business to competition! Let's cut services!" :ignore:

They're supposed to now be an independent business without government support. When are they going to start thinking like competitive business people, and not government burrowcrats? They're driving business to FedEx and UPS and hastening their own demise.

Rather than extend delivery time for everyone, why not just cut delivery days? Cut Saturday delivery. Heck, cut deliver to 3 days/week - M-W-F or Tu-Th-Sa. I'd rather wait for every other day delivery than wait 3-5 days for my letter.

Increase postal rates for first class - 44 cents to get a letter anywhere in the country is a steal! Their competition can't match that, as long as the USPS can continue to provide decent and timely service.

Increase postal rates for bulk mail. Yes, I know it's a good part of their gross revenues. But a wise seer once pointed out that it doesn't work to try to make up in volume for a loss-leader product or service.

Cut employee benefits. Their retirement benefits are one of the major causes of their huge losses. If they're not a government business, they don't need to provide government-style retirement bennies.

I'm willing to pay more for a first class letter, and get my mail less frequently. But only if the result is a lean, mean, competitive postal service that has some chance of surviving. Their current plan is short-sighted, and will worsen the crisis, not solve it.

-Bob

Blame Congress. The USPS cannot change how they deliver the mail without approval. They have suggested dropping Saturday and have been shot down.
 

pgnewarkboy

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
2,770
Reaction score
1
Points
36
The post office has received no tax dollars for 20 years or more. They are subject however to the control of Congress.
 

JeffW

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
11
Points
398
Location
Philadelphia
The post office has received no tax dollars for 20 years or more. They are subject however to the control of Congress.

Perhaps a nice way for Congress to keep at least partial control over a big agency, with no financial responsibility.

Jeff
 

persia

newbie
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
6
Points
36
Location
Carlingford, NSW
But, but, but, I just bought a book of stamps in May 2010 and I'll probably need another before 2012 ends. How can they be losing money?
 

persia

newbie
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
6
Points
36
Location
Carlingford, NSW
When I get a bill in my email I usually go to my banks online bill payment system and tell it too deliver the money one day before the due date. Simple. Snail mail is no longer involved in any of my personal finances and hasn't been for years. I still have the 20 starter checks Wells Fargo gave me when I opened the account 4 years ago, they're in a drawer somewhere in the basement I think. I don't think I even remember how to write a check anymore.....


As the article said, with timing, some mail will take a week to arrive, so both ways, that is two weeks out of the grace period. Depending on people's payday, etc. it could be a squeeze.
People do different things for different reasons. I pay a bill pretty much as soon as it arrives. Others delay to earn a little interest on their money. Who knows? It is a reality, even if it is not yours.
Strange as it seems, the sorting machines at the centers are faster and more efficient than having people sort at the post office where the letter is mailed from and will come back to. It also does all the computations I'm sure are necessary. I bet in the local PO the employee can't just take a letter from the drop box and stick it in the right recipient box. Has to be tabulated, cancelled etc. Seems silly to truck the local mail to a regional center, but USPS employees say it is better.
 
Top