Politics & Religion on Forums

[silvib]

Being of European mentality - but over 9 years living in the U.S., why can't politics and religion be discussed on open forums? I don't know what harm it does. Isn't this supposed to be a country of free speech? These topics are discussed much more freely in Europe without any harmful effects and I'm not necessarily referring to website forums, but in over the dinner table conversations when you may or may not know the other invitees very well.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Politics, Shmollatix.

Being of European mentality - but over 9 years living in the U.S., why can't politics and religion be discussed on open forums? I don't know what harm it does. Isn't this supposed to be a country of free speech? These topics are discussed much more freely in Europe without any harmful effects and I'm not necessarily referring to website forums, but in over the dinner table conversations when you may or may not know the other invitees very well.

In the bad old days of TUG-BBS, the civility & politeness level dropped so low that it was marring people's enjoyment of the entire web site.

Because there are lots & lots of other places on the Internet where people can exercise those free speech privileges to a fare-thee-well, there was no need for that sort of exuberance spilling over into rambunctiousness at this particular spot on the Internet.

I for 1 never understood why people would choose to thrash over various political topics at a web site devoted to timeshares of all things, but then again I am not the sharpest scalpel in the operating room.

I do know that the overall tone & mood & style are lighter & happier & in ever so much better humor ever since No-Politics-Thank-You became a TUG-BBS watchword.

Who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[silvib]

If people couldn't stay civil to each other, then in that case, I guess it's best left alone. I wasn't trying to open up a can of worms, just curious, as the thread on the VP was shut down so quickly. It's fair to say that the tug lounge appears to be used for an assortment of topics that are not timeshare related.

 

[talkamotta]

Politics and especially religion or personal beliefs come into play in every part of our lives. Vacationing specifically timesharing has to do with our personal time. So what we believe comes out loud and clear.

For example:
Ask someone how they feel about kids and Vegas.

TUG BBS chooses to keep the negativity to a low on subjects that can get heated (except sales weasles) and keep things on a lighter note.

I appreciate it. I would go on other threads if I wanted to talk politics or religion.

 

[jschmidt]

This isn't a save your a$$ forum, it's a save your $$$ forum!

 

[dioxide45]

If people couldn't stay civil to each other, then in that case, I guess it's best left alone. I wasn't trying to open up a can of worms, just curious, as the thread on the VP was shut down so quickly. It's fair to say that the tug lounge appears to be used for an assortment of topics that are not timeshare related.

The problem is that these discussions can become uncivil. When people have a computer screen to hide behind, they are much more open and less civil. People will say far more on these types of forums than they would to someones face.

 

[Lawlar]

Ugly

I get on the nerves of the TUGGERS who love their Marriotts (and Marriott reps) as it is. Imagine if I could add my political and religious views to those debates. It would be ugly!

 

[NTHC]

I don't know anything about European politics, but I think it is an interesting question.

In the US although there is freedom of speech, you must be always politically correct. If you offend someone, there is the ongoing possiblity of a lawsuit. As an employer you can't voice an opinion, as an employee you can't voice an opinion. The US has become a country of entitlement and greed and if you say the wrong thing to the wrong person, it can mean a lawsuit.

I think most Americans discuss politics(religion) in their group of friends, etc. But I don't think people truly feel free to discuss opinions among people they do not know.

JMHO,
Cindy

 

[Bill4728]

I wasn't here when politic & religion were being discussed. BUT I can tell you that the TUG rules about being uncivil make this website more friendly than it would be otherwise.

TUG has many vistors which are looking for advice about TS. Uncivil debates about religion or politics would take away from that primary purpose of this website.

 

[Kal]

If you could remember the threads with Gin-Gin it would be instantly clear how an innocent political discussion turns very nasty.

 

[jme]

I'll offer the VERY BEST ANSWER....

and I have a story to illustrate my point:

...it's because those discussions are meant only for a face-to-face discussion with a fellow TUG member.

And therefore, that THEN requires a visit to the same destination at the same time, for example, which then results in a most wonderful and meaningful afternoon in the pool, with a five hour discussion of those two topics, whilst the wives and kids play happily with each other (and with us occasionally) realizing that they now have new friends "far, far away"...and then even the kids can share their different lives with each other while having a blast together.

All in all, it means a renewed, deeper friendship with someone you previously only knew over a keyboard.

I should know-----this happened to me and my family in June when we were at Grande Ocean, and an old TUG adversary (and now fast friend of ten years) and I made arrangements beforehand for the two families to get together AGAIN for the sixth time, and we then enjoyed one of the most fun afternoons we've ever had.

That carries the meaning of a TUG membership to a whole new level.....and so I concur: it's best to leave those discussions alone online....and to explore them together face-to-face in the paradise of your choosing! Now that works beautifully. Marty (jme)

 

[e.bram]

There are many internet forums where you can discuss politics and relegion all you want. This isn't one of them. End of story

 

[Steve]

In the US although there is freedom of speech, you must be always politically correct. If you offend someone, there is the ongoing possiblity of a lawsuit. As an employer you can't voice an opinion, as an employee you can't voice an opinion. The US has become a country of entitlement and greed and if you say the wrong thing to the wrong person, it can mean a lawsuit.

I think this paints the United States in a rather inaccurate light. I don't think that most Americans are hesitant to discuss politics and religion outside of their close circle of family and friends because they are afraid of a lawsuit. I think the reason is that those two topics are considered off limits in traditional "polite society" here in the US. There is a long standing etiquette rule that says that you don't discuss those topics. This goes back decades before "political correctness" was even coined as a phrase. Europeans typically are much more open about nudity and sex than Americans, so it's not really a shock that they are more open about discussing politics and religion as well.

As for the internet, without rules and moderators, polite conversation tends to break down pretty quickly when controversial topics come up. People are much more willing to ignore social customs and offend others online. TUG is definitely a happier place since the ban on political and religious discussions was adopted.

Steve

 

[Keitht]

It isn't a US versus Europe thing. It's a peaceful life thing Back in the olden days of TUG when political topics were permitted a few members believed that their views and only their views should be permitted. The vitriol and hatred spouted at their opponents by that tiny minority became such a problem that the only practical solution was seen to be banning the subjects. Many, myself included, were saddened at the time that a minority could ruin things for everybody, but it was ever thus.
Political discussion is permitted over on TS4Ms but to be honest I don't miss it here and I don't bother with it much over there.

 

[Jim C]

Hit the nail on the head!!!

I don't know anything about European politics, but I think it is an interesting question.

In the US although there is freedom of speech, you must be always politically correct. If you offend someone, there is the ongoing possiblity of a lawsuit. As an employer you can't voice an opinion, as an employee you can't voice an opinion. The US has become a country of entitlement and greed and if you say the wrong thing to the wrong person, it can mean a lawsuit.

I think most Americans discuss politics(religion) in their group of friends, etc. But I don't think people truly feel free to discuss opinions among people they do not know.

JMHO,
Cindy

Cindy, You got it 100% right!! Too bad your post will probably be removed by the censors. Great response.

 

[The Conch Man]

Very true indeed!! Most of us can & do remember those days, not to mention of how many times she would use different ID's to access this forum until TUG finally wouldn't let her back-in. I really don't miss that at all but like someone said, Timeshare Forums is the place to do this ifin you are so inclined to.

If you could remember the threads with Gin-Gin it would be instantly clear how an innocent political discussion turns very nasty.

 

[e.bram]

If civility is politically correct, so be it.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Interesting thread...lets see how long it takes before it gets closed.

I posted a thread about who will be the Democratic VP....(I was wrong in my pick)...as I thought it would be a fun topic like picking a Super Bowl winner or the Best Movie for the Academy Awards.....guess what, after about 10 posts, it got locked because peopel can't help themselves and it gets out of hand.

Now if they every create a "specific religious timeshare" or a specific "political timeshare" then perhaps it can be discussed here.

 

[Makai Guy]

Bad as Gin-Gin was, at least she came here because of her interest in timeshares, and only got sucked into the political morass once the political crap got started. Once the political stuff got going strong, it attracted additional people that came here ONLY for the political haranguing. The bad tempers and incivility spilled out into all areas of the board, not just the general discussion area. We lost many long term, valuable, active posters over it -- some because it became such a snake pit that it just was no longer fun to come here, others because they took umbrage when brought to task when they broke the rules. We also lost several admins and moderators for whom the hassle and abuse heaped upon them for just doing their jobs was more than they could take.

If you were not here then, you would not believe how bad it got, unless perhaps you frequent some of the more unruly usenet newsgroups.

As we say in our current rules: We've been down that road before, it was ugly, and we are not going there again.

 

[geekette]

an adjunct to the post concerning ettiquette, social conversation, etc., which I believe to be highly accurate.

Used to be, religion, politics, sex, and money were not polite topics for conversation.

Do note that we openly discuss money.

I appreciate the limit on religion and politics. Go elsewhere to converse freely on these issues. It doesn't matter what else can be discussed in the lounge, the rules of this board are very clear on what cannot be discussed.

I do not see this as a free speech limitation nor as an attempt to be politically correct. It is merely the rules for this group. There are plenty of other topics available here to cause uncivil behavior ; )

 

[Keitht]

Bad as Gin-Gin was, at least she came here because of her interest in timeshares, and only got sucked into the political morass once the political crap got started. [/I]

On another site the multiple aliases used by this character got them banned from there too, but only after they made threats against some of the mods and the owner. Seriously disturbed individual.

 

[Patri]

I love TUG just the way it is now.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Used to be, religion, politics, sex, and money were not polite topics for conversation.

Do note that we openly discuss money.

If TUG limited discussions on money, then it would be pretty dull.....Posts would be like this:

"I paid TOP dollar for my XYZ timeshare and now I can't even sell it for a cup of coffee. I would post prices, but it is against the rules"

"I just closed on a DVC for less than a used Toyota Prius....60 days until my next visit...pixie dust for everyone."

"Destination Clubs offer great value, but I can't post a comparison to timeshares as it involves a discussion on money."

 

[charford]

Does anyone have any political forums that they would recommend?

 

[swift]

Does anyone have any political forums that they would recommend?

This I think would be a personal choice. Your best bet would be to go to Google type in your political conversation choice along with the word Forum and start searching through there.

Example: Political Party XYZ Forum