Poipu Point - Walk away from ownership?

[LauritaM]

what this point only owner was assessed

I own two weeks garden view at P@P. One bought 10 years ago one just bought in April, no one disclosed this fee up coming, I just asked a rep. from DRI if there was a voluntary surrender program and he said NO.
I would be curious what "point only" owners are assessed? They have been trying to get us to change for years.

Hello - well like an other poster my add'l assessment for 2012 just showed up online in my account (it was NOT there yesterday when I checked) I owe an add'l $2071.50. I had already paid $2317.58 as I had to prepay (based on 2011) since I booked for two weeks in June 2012.

So ... yes indeed points only owners are also being assessed. They have some formula for determining it. Below is what I copied from my actual stmt:

“2012 - Water Intrusion Payment Option”: The remaining portion of your Water Intrusion Assessment may, at your option, be paid in future years as authorized by The Association of Apartment Owners of Poipu Point. Please see Exhibit “B” – Water Intrusion Payment Schedule for more information.

Amount Due $2071.50

2012 Assessment Fee

Due Date: Jan 1, 2012

Statement Date: Oct 10, 2011

Amount Due: $2071.50

2012-Base Standard Assessment 230.00
2012-GET On Base Standard Assessment 9.58
2012-Standard Assessment - Fee Per Point 1792.50
2012-GET On Standard Assessment - Fee Per Point 75.00
2012-Water Intrusion Assessment - Fee Per Point 2445.00
2012-GET Water Intrusion Fee Per Point 102.00
2012-THE Club(R) Fee 277.00
ARDA-ROC Voluntary Contribution 5.00"

I really don't understand it all, but we own 15000 points and it looks like ALL I need to pay by 2012 (from other info included) is $2000.00 and the balance in 2013 - which won't be much, but to yank their chain I may just pay what I HAVE to AND I am going to subtract the voluntary contribution too. People who have more points also have the SA spread out over several years. YIKES! We have considered buying more points - but am glad now that we haven't.

All that being said - I am still glad that we have this timeshare. We have been able to use our points to trade into some really great places, in fact we just got back from a week in Vegas that was 4000 points in a 2 Bed 2 Bath full kitchen wash/dryer. We have taken our daughters and their families to Maui and P of P a few times (points allow you to choose length of stay over view) and it has been awesome for us. Nothing like showing some beautiful parts of the world to the grandkiddos!

BUT ... if you don't have the money to pay the assessment no matter how much you like the timeshare it is a very serious burden and worry. I wish you all well. Maybe they will allow some type of monthly payment for you.

I guess I would like to know is the 5800$ SA in addition to what your regualr MF are or are they included? As near as I can tell ours is a combination? Can anyone shed any light on this?

I went back and reread some posts and looked at the SA chart for weekly owners and from what I can tell having points (for now at least) looks better. It looks like we were assessed basically double our normal fee and luckily I had prepayed a couple months ago to book so it will not hit me quite as hard, but still ... it is a LOT of money w/ NO warning. I didn't even get an email - let alone a letter regarding this situation.

 

[Tacoma]

Sorry to hear about the massive special assessment. Although I do not own there I do feel the pain. I remember when I got almost a $1000 special assessment bor BRMR and I owned 2 weeks. Ouch! I paid it but always wondered what percentage didn't and what happened to them. I do know they used the excuse of people not paying to explain why the renovation took much longer than originally planned. I also remember being really annoyed when someone admitted that the non timeshare units were renovated first. I still feel that they had my money for years before I saw the benefit of the renovations.

My question is this week owners are each assessed aproximately 5800 each. Are the owners there assessed 52 times that or aprox $300,000 each?
Wow is that possible?

Joan

 

[dougp26364]

The problem there is getting all of the owners to vote to agree. There will always be some that will vote to rebuild. Unless there is a provision in either the condo program documents or state statutes governing condo projects that would allow such a decision to be made without unanimous consent, getting all of the owners to vote together is essentially impossible.

Not to mention the percentage of units held by the trust, which is unlikely to vote that large block of units to sell off the resort.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Not to mention the percentage of units held by the trust, which is unlikely to vote that large block of units to sell off the resort.

I've wondered about that. The trustee has a fiduciary duty, and if the most cost-effective option is to close the resort, the Trustee could face direct liability if they were found to have breached that duty.

If anthing were to ever cause the Trustee to zig when DRI wants the Trustee to zag, this is the type of situation where that might happen.

 

[Kauai Kid]

I have a slightly different question. (silly as it may be) We always pay our maintenance fee's at the end of Dec. When we pay this next one (with the special assessment at the end of Dec., is this going for the 2012 year? or is it for the 2011 year? I had this discussion with another person and I am assuming it is for 2012 whereas the other person said it is for 2011? Confusion here, I was mainly concerned about getting this paid since we are going in Feb. OH how we would just love to give this back to Diamond, but we love the point at poipu. Also on their explanation of the water intrusion it said many other condo's on Kauai have the same issue - Has anyone heard of anyone else having the same water intrusion? I sure haven't!

We own at 30 yr old Alii Kai on the north shore. Never been a special assessment for water intrusion or anything else including nothing after hurricane Iniki hit.

No wonder I like it better than the Point at Poipu.

Sterling

 

[geekette]

I think the really odd part of this whole dust up is this quote from the SA paperwork ...



So ... several years ... three investigations ... and they just now spring the 5800 SA !!!!!!!!!!!

I think this was known about for some time ... why was the information not shared?

because people would have dumped their ownerships three years ago, leaving the developer with the entire tab.

 

[Diamondresortbailout]

Diamond Bailout

How many of you rec'd information in your billings in 2008, 2009, 2010 with regard to the water intrusion issue at Poipu Point? I know for sure that I did not. We really have a real estate disclosure issue with DRI since this issue has been going on since 1991/1992. My recommendation is for everyone to get an attorney and also follow-up with the State of Hawaii authorities since the property is not up to "building codes", etc at this time for the condos to be occupied.

 

[weisberg]

Hello, anyone out there with legal knowledge of timeshares? I am Looking to organize a class action suit. I am a deeded owner of one week at The Point at Poipu resort. Presently owned by Diamond Resorts International. I believe they are trying to pass the buck for property repairs that should come from the profits they have made in the past. They did not share their profits with owners. Why should they bill us for repairing a poorly constructed property? When I buy a property, I have an engineer check things out. They have assessed the owners with a unheard of amount of $5893.32 . This is in addition to your regular maintenance fees. They tried to submit water intrusion repairs to their insurance company. The claim was denied. They admit that rather than pay legal fees to fight the denied claim. They are passing the expense on to the timeshare owners. This just is not right!!!! Can anyone point us in the right direction?
I fear that this corporation is not in a good place due to the fall of our economy. If we pay the first payment, we have no guarantee that they we follow through with the repairs. We also have no guarantee that we can get to use our resort for the next few years. If the resort is out of commission, a trading company will not accept a resort to trade if there any no units available. At this point I say lump your original investment and cut your losses
They have known about this problem for a few years and not given us a clue as to what was in store for us. We bought in good faith and knew that there would be expenses to enjoy our paradise. Why should we be held to our end of the bargain if they are not? Please anyone that can help please reply.
I have owned for 10 years and watched the amenities that attracted me to buy disappear since the change of ownership went to DRI. Contact bobweisberg@bellsouth.net

 

[timeos2]

Weisberg - The resort is OWNED by you & the other owners - it is managed & unsold inventory held & sold by DRI. Unless you bought very recently when there may possibly be a question about sales disclosure your beef is with the resort/Board not DRI.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Hello, anyone out there with legal knowledge of timeshares? I am Looking to organize a class action suit. I am a deeded owner of one week at The Point at Poipu resort. Presently owned by Diamond Resorts International. I believe they are trying to pass the buck for property repairs that should come from the profits they have made in the past. They did not share their profits with owners. Why should they bill us for repairing a poorly constructed property? When I buy a property, I have an engineer check things out. They have assessed the owners with a unheard of amount of $5893.32 . This is in addition to your regular maintenance fees. They tried to submit water intrusion repairs to their insurance company. The claim was denied. They admit that rather than pay legal fees to fight the denied claim. They are passing the expense on to the timeshare owners. This just is not right!!!! Can anyone point us in the right direction?
I fear that this corporation is not in a good place due to the fall of our economy. If we pay the first payment, we have no guarantee that they we follow through with the repairs. We also have no guarantee that we can get to use our resort for the next few years. If the resort is out of commission, a trading company will not accept a resort to trade if there any no units available. At this point I say lump your original investment and cut your losses
They have known about this problem for a few years and not given us a clue as to what was in store for us. We bought in good faith and knew that there would be expenses to enjoy our paradise. Why should we be held to our end of the bargain if they are not? Please anyone that can help please reply.
I have owned for 10 years and watched the amenities that attracted me to buy disappear since the change of ownership went to DRI. Contact bobweisberg@bellsouth.net

Couple questions. Whom did you cast your vote for on the Board of Directors? Why not ask those questions of your elected representatives on the Board of Directors?

 

[weisberg]

Mistrust of DRI

The problem with this theory is the assumption that the lein holder won't come after you once the property has sold, if it's sold at a loss. There have been articles I've seen lately indicating banks are begining to go after those who walked but could afford the loan payments.

To walk because of these assessments might result in an action taken by DRI to collect if they feel the individuals had the ability to pay.

On the other hand, taking legal action against a large number of individuals in various states could be more costly than the amount they are trying to collect. They may simply turn it over to collections and, if that fails, write it off as a bad debt and repport it as a bad debt on the credit file.

I have empathy for those facing such a large assessment without warning. We would either have to withdraw funds from our savings accounts or take out a loan to pay those fee's. Neither option is attractive to me but, it would be easier to withdraw from savings, then systematically put it back on a monthly basis over the next year. We are fortunate to be in a position where we can do that and, in fact, did have to do this due to an unexpected illness with my wife and an unexpected ER visit with follow up doctors visits and additional testing for me. Thank goodness I work in a field where, at least up until last week, I have been able to work plenty of overtime.

I understand the problems with walking away from a small debt. This goes further than the initial, large, previously, undisclosed assessment. It is a matter trust. I am a owner of a second party purchase of one week every year 10 years ago. Over the 10 years, all of the amenities that attracted me to buy have disappeared. Every encounter I have had with DRI has not been pleasant. I feel the past lean years have made them creative to produce new revenues. After all, getting $5,800. and change from all deed owners helps to make up for lack of sales that have not been produced. After reading comments posted. I agree this is a beautiful place, however what guarantee do we have that they will not run into additional expenses and we will be assessed for more. How solvent is DRI? What if we kick in $68 Million and the go under. That would be a real kick

 

[Farmtek]

I am suspicious any time I deal with timeshare people. I think there is more to this than appears on the surface. Why would a smart bunch like Diamond buy into a damaged property? What is Diamonds financial picture right now? What about an insurance company that will not pay? What about a roof repair that will cost 65 million dollars? Has anyone seen a copy of the insurance plan, or the response by the insurance company? Did the insurance company estimate the damages? Can we get an assessment of the damages by another source, such as building inspectors for the State of Hawaii? Should the owners be willing to shell out 65 million until we have a better picture?

 

[Rhinestone Redneck]

Anyone have an additional information this today regarding the Poipu Point...

 

[Rhinestone Redneck]

Anyone have any additional information today regarding Poipu Point...

 

[Rhinestone Redneck]

I understand the problems with walking away from a small debt. This goes further than the initial, large, previously, undisclosed assessment. It is a matter trust. I am a owner of a second party purchase of one week every year 10 years ago. Over the 10 years, all of the amenities that attracted me to buy have disappeared. Every encounter I have had with DRI has not been pleasant. I feel the past lean years have made them creative to produce new revenues. After all, getting $5,800. and change from all deed owners helps to make up for lack of sales that have not been produced. After reading comments posted. I agree this is a beautiful place, however what guarantee do we have that they will not run into additional expenses and we will be assessed for more. How solvent is DRI? What if we kick in $68 Million and the go under. That would be a real kick

that's a huge part of the problem...those that pay will be left empty handed...the board should have made certain that such issues were covered by insurance..."owners" should not have to pay for the board's mismanagement and DRI's asleep at the wheel...

 

[timeos2]

that's a huge part of the problem...those that pay will be left empty handed...the board should have made certain that such issues were covered by insurance..."owners" should not have to pay for the board's mismanagement and DRI's asleep at the wheel...

It is unfortunate that this is such a large assessment but there is no insurance that is going to cover failure over a long (over 10 years + ) failure of walls & surfaces. If there is or were it would cost as much or more then the repairs as given time anything will fail and requires maintenance and they price it based on that.

For at least 3 years the owner's have been seeing the problems on the surface and complaining about it. The Board has been trying to get it resolved. Now the full extent is known and it's time to fix it & owners to pay the bills. Sorry.

 

[tahoeJoe]

File a lawsuit.

It is unfortunate that this is such a large assessment but there is no insurance that is going to cover failure over a long (over 10 years + ) failure of walls & surfaces.

This sounds like a breach of duty on the part of individual HOA board members. Board members are vested with a fiduciary duty to watch out for owners' interest, property, investment, and act in a diligent manner.

The fact that this problem has gone on so long (10 years) I would seriously look at suing individual HOA board members for breach of fiduciary duty and neglect. Nothing personal, just business. The board members should be covered by a errors and omission policy. That policy will pay since they HOA board screwed up. If not, "so sad, too bad" the board members should be held personally responsible.

-TJ

 

[Rhinestone Redneck]

Poipu Point Meeting

Is anyone planning to attend one of the two meetings in California regarding the water assessment?...There is one in S. California Oct. 19th and another the following day...Oct. 20 in N. California...(San Fransico)...I'm planning on attending the one in N. California...if there's an attorney out there that wants to meet me there and is qualified in matters of this nature...I'll retain you...Please contact me...

Poipu Point Resort is the resort I am referring to in case there is any confusion...:annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:

 

[AKE]

This sounds like a breach of duty on the part of individual HOA board members. Board members are vested with a fiduciary duty to watch out for owners' interest, property, investment, and act in a diligent manner.

The fact that this problem has gone on so long (10 years) I would seriously look at suing individual HOA board members for breach of fiduciary duty and neglect. Nothing personal, just business. The board members should be covered by a errors and omission policy. That policy will pay since they HOA board screwed up. If not, "so sad, too bad" the board members should be held personally responsible.

-TJ

You have got to be kidding... suing HOA members as some are also owners. If this type of action gets off the ground then who in their right mind would ever want to run for the HOA? AND if there are no owners on the HOA then who is going to represent your interests? I can recall reading about water problems at this resort quite some time ago but I doubt that anyone knew the extent of the problem and everyone was always complaining about the high maintenance fees already so the HOA would have been reluctant to start major renovations without a special assessment. This is the same as owning a condo - you have a property management company (in this case DRI) but it is the owners who have to cover the costs of running the building. Yes DRI probably owns some units but I don't think that they are a majority shareholder by any means. Accept the fact that the buildings were built to standards from the very early 1990's (maybe earlier as originally were these not a Japanese condo development which had financial issues and was then converted into a timeshare) and add to this the tropical climate as well as hurricanes , then *&*^ can and does happen.

 

[wilma]

Is anyone planning to attend one of the two meetings in California regarding the water assessment?...There is one in S. California Oct. 19th and another the following day...Oct. 20 in N. California...(San Fransico)...I'm planning on attending the one in N. California...if there's an attorney out there that wants to meet me there and is qualified in matters of this nature...I'll retain you...Please contact me...

Poipu Point Resort is the resort I am referring to in case there is any confusion...:annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:

Can you post the details of the meetings? Who is organizing? Where, what time? Thanks.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Can you post the details of the meetings? Who is organizing? Where, what time? Thanks.

They are discussed in the letter to owners sent by the Board. If you haven't seen a hard copy, it's available at the Point at Poipu owners website at DiamondResortsHOA.com. A direct link to the letter is provided in some of the other threads on the special assessment that are extant on this Board.

 

[dougp26364]

This sounds like a breach of duty on the part of individual HOA board members. Board members are vested with a fiduciary duty to watch out for owners' interest, property, investment, and act in a diligent manner.

The fact that this problem has gone on so long (10 years) I would seriously look at suing individual HOA board members for breach of fiduciary duty and neglect. Nothing personal, just business. The board members should be covered by a errors and omission policy. That policy will pay since they HOA board screwed up. If not, "so sad, too bad" the board members should be held personally responsible.

-TJ

So, you want to suit a bankrupt entity like Sunterra. Let me know how that goes for you. Remember DRI took over management of this resort just a couple of years ago. All previous failed management companies ignored the issue. At this point, going after DRI is akin to killing the messenger. Or maybe you'd have prefered DRI ignore the problem like previous management companies have done?

 

[dougp26364]

Is anyone planning to attend one of the two meetings in California regarding the water assessment?...There is one in S. California Oct. 19th and another the following day...Oct. 20 in N. California...(San Fransico)...I'm planning on attending the one in N. California...if there's an attorney out there that wants to meet me there and is qualified in matters of this nature...I'll retain you...Please contact me...

Poipu Point Resort is the resort I am referring to in case there is any confusion...:annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:

So who are you going to suit? The orignal developer who built the resort, Embassy or Sunterra, who are no longer involved with the resort, or DRI, who only took over management of the resort maybe 3 years ago? DRI appeares to be the only management company to addres the issue, file a claim (which was denied), explore the possibility of litigation and finally settle on the fact that they and the oweners are stuck.

Or, would you rather they ignore the issues as Sunterra seemed to do?

Keep in mind that when you suit the HOA, you're suing yourself since your one of the owners. You'll pay both ends of the legal bill. The only thing you'll succeed at is increasing the costs for all the owners even further and delying the inevitable repairs, forcing costs to run even higher.

Your right when you say the buck stops with DRI. DRI has been the only management company to address the problem. All the others played pass the buck until it's come to this point.

 

[caseyatbt]

I understand the reality of all this. We are the owners and are on the hook for the repairs.
The problem I have is the "out of nowhere" cost that were sprung on us with only 2 options to pay. I do not have that kind of money. Things here have been financially tight for a while. We tried to sell our units a few times but decided to keep them by paying dues by renting the weeks to friends and family for the amount to cover them. Which is what we were going to do with this years units (we have 2 even year weeks)
So that leaves us with almost $6000 owed that we cannot pay. There is no place to beg, borrow, or......
What bothers me most is the lack of options. Even if I could swing $2000 this year, $4000 next year??? It would of some much more reasonable to stretch this out over ten years.
I haven't called them yet to find out what happens if I can't afford it, I was waiting to see if the outcry allowed for some creative alternatives, but none so far.
I do not know what to do. I am able to pay my bills and feed my family. Over the last couple of weeks we were already looking at how to do Christmas on a shoestring, and than this shows up.
I don't want my credit hurt or have my house harassed by collectors, but this could really damage our family.

 

[LindaB]

Not true about voluntary surrender for Poipu via DRI

DRI has a voluntary surrender program; it does requure that the owner be current on all fees, so that may not help you with the special assessment.

DRI will not take voluntary surrenders at Poipu - check your facts before posting. I have called two times and asked and begged. Even offering to pay the whole up front $6K in special assessment. They said they do NOT have a voluntary surrender program - you have to sell privately. Nobody will buy there now with what is going on.