Point Transfer Receiving Limit - Capped at 20,000 Points Annually [MERGED]

[StevenTing]

Just got the email.

​

To help make highly sought-after vacations more available, we are making the following rule change beginning January 1, 2023:​

POINTS AND ENROLLED OWNERS AND MEMBERS CAN RECEIVE A MAXIMUM OF 20,000 CLUB POINTS TRANSFERRED FROM OTHER OWNERS AND MEMBERS EACH USE YEAR.​

WHY DID WE DO THIS?​

This change resulted from our evaluation of reservation activity. We found large Club Points transfers being used to reserve disproportionate numbers of vacations during peak seasons. These reservations were then being rented out to others. We strive to make reserving vacations as fair as possible for all Owners and Members. We believe this change will help support more opportunities for everyone to enjoy their ownership or membership and experience new destinations. Thank you. FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ​ ​ ​ Why am I now capped at receiving 20,000 Club Points transferred each Use Year from other Owners and Members?​ ​ ​ Our goal is to help make more vacations available to our Owners and Members. We discovered a fairly small number of Owners and Members receive large Club Points transfers each year. However, these are frequently used for multiple reservations to non-Owners, and show high rates of late cancellations. This limits other Owners’ and Members’ opportunities to reserve at these locations. This behavior often points to commercial use of Club Points, which is prohibited by the program’s governing documents.​ ​ ​ ​ My spouse and I own Club Points together. Can we each get 20,000 Club Points transferred to us each Use Year?​ ​ ​ No. Each ownership or membership is limited to receiving 20,000 transferred Club Points each Use Year, regardless of the number of Owners or Members on the membership.​ ​ ​ ​ We’re planning a personal vacation that needs more than 20,000 transferred Club Points. What are my options?​ ​ ​ We have a waiver process that may allow you to receive one transfer of up to an additional 20,000 Club Points into your ownership or membership.​ ​ ​ ​ Does my online account show the total number of Club Points I’ve transferred into my ownership or membership for the current Use Year?​ ​ ​ Yes.​ ​

 

[PamMo]

I just got this email from Marriott. I don't know if it will have an effect on any TUG members, but it is of interest to some who would rather rent points from other owners instead of purchasing more points from Marriott.

​

To help make highly sought-after vacations more available, we are making the following rule change beginning January 1, 2023:​

POINTS AND ENROLLED OWNERS AND MEMBERS CAN RECEIVE A MAXIMUM OF 20,000 CLUB POINTS TRANSFERRED FROM OTHER OWNERS AND MEMBERS EACH USE YEAR.​

WHY DID WE DO THIS?​

This change resulted from our evaluation of reservation activity. We found large Club Points transfers being used to reserve disproportionate numbers of vacations during peak seasons. These reservations were then being rented out to others. We strive to make reserving vacations as fair as possible for all Owners and Members. We believe this change will help support more opportunities for everyone to enjoy their ownership or membership and experience new destinations. Thank you.​

 

[timsi]

If this was indeed at a large scale, the price of renting points should drop.

 

[Fasttr]

If they limited transfers OUT to 20K max, I would say that that may limit the ability to easily rent points as we desire (limiting supply from the mega renters), but for most of us who rent a few thousand here and there as we need more points, I see THIS change (to the demand side) as a non issue.

If there is truly a large number of owners renting more points so they can make a business out of it by securing ressys and renting out the ressys for profit, then I’m all for it.

 

[timsi]

I doubt it is a big problem though. The points are very expensive, I don't think there is much profit in renting out prime weeks reserved with points. I guess that most rental are actually from deeded week owners. They may just try to find a scapegoat for an inventory issue.

 

[Dean]

If this was indeed at a large scale, the price of renting points should drop.

Possibly but I doubt it. Maybe a slight increase in members renting reservations themselves rather than selling their points. I find it difficult to believe there was enough activity in rentals associated with points transfers to make any difference. Since they've shown interest in controlling such rentals, I predict this will not be the end of limitations. Next we'll see some type of limit on rentals in general I would suspect.

 

[Lv2Trvl]

Received the email. Interesting. The documents say you can't run it as a business. Soo... it will affect the pricing most likely. Don't think it will bother us too much.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[StevenTing]

First it’s 20,000 points. Then it will be reduced to 10,000 points. Then it will be 5,000 points. They’ll keep reducing the number as the years to by, forcing people to need to buy more points. Next thing you know, they’ll change the model to say you can only receive the number of points that you currently own.

They will slowly eliminate the “buy 1000 points, and rent the rest” crowd. If I were on the corporate strategy team, this is what I would recommend.

One unintended consequence is that this will further reduce the utilization of the Home Villa rentals that MVC offers. I doubt there is high usage there but when some of the nights are 5,000 or 10,000 a night, you won’t have many options. Same for the tours and cruises. I don’t think they thought through that impact.

 

[bazzap]

Just got the email.

​

To help make highly sought-after vacations more available, we are making the following rule change beginning January 1, 2023:​

POINTS AND ENROLLED OWNERS AND MEMBERS CAN RECEIVE A MAXIMUM OF 20,000 CLUB POINTS TRANSFERRED FROM OTHER OWNERS AND MEMBERS EACH USE YEAR.​

WHY DID WE DO THIS?​

This change resulted from our evaluation of reservation activity. We found large Club Points transfers being used to reserve disproportionate numbers of vacations during peak seasons. These reservations were then being rented out to others. We strive to make reserving vacations as fair as possible for all Owners and Members. We believe this change will help support more opportunities for everyone to enjoy their ownership or membership and experience new destinations. Thank you. FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ​ ​ ​ Why am I now capped at receiving 20,000 Club Points transferred each Use Year from other Owners and Members?​ ​ ​ Our goal is to help make more vacations available to our Owners and Members. We discovered a fairly small number of Owners and Members receive large Club Points transfers each year. However, these are frequently used for multiple reservations to non-Owners, and show high rates of late cancellations. This limits other Owners’ and Members’ opportunities to reserve at these locations. This behavior often points to commercial use of Club Points, which is prohibited by the program’s governing documents.​ ​ ​ ​ My spouse and I own Club Points together. Can we each get 20,000 Club Points transferred to us each Use Year?​ ​ ​ No. Each ownership or membership is limited to receiving 20,000 transferred Club Points each Use Year, regardless of the number of Owners or Members on the membership.​ ​ ​ ​ We’re planning a personal vacation that needs more than 20,000 transferred Club Points. What are my options?​ ​ ​ We have a waiver process that may allow you to receive one transfer of up to an additional 20,000 Club Points into your ownership or membership.​ ​ ​ ​ Does my online account show the total number of Club Points I’ve transferred into my ownership or membership for the current Use Year?​ ​ ​ Yes.​ ​

Interestingly no similar restrictions on Weeks transfers (rentals)?

 

[StevenTing]

Nope. As weeks can’t be transferred. They can be rented, yes, but not transferred to another owner to book and the rent.

The points provided flexibility. I think this was only a matter of time and with the addition of Vistana, it’s important they get this policy in place before the floodgates open to the other resorts.

 

[DanCali]

Interestingly no similar restrictions on Weeks transfers (rentals)?

There shouldn't be. Renting a week is your right as an owner.

Looking at vacationpointexchange, there are a couple of conspicuous listings that look like "professional renters" (those looking to rent an unspecified number of points). I've also had a couple of people approach me for my point listings and they did not seem like "occasional" renters.

 

[dioxide45]

Drip drip

 

[Fasttr]

Looking at vacationpointexchange, there are a couple of conspicuous listings that look like "professional renters" (those looking to rent an unspecified number of points). I've also had a couple of people approach me for my point listings and they did not seem like "occasional" renters.

But this change will not limit how many they can transfer OUT.

 

[StevenTing]

But this change will not limit how many they can transfer OUT.

Yup. Sending points, no limit. Receiving points, 20,000 cap.

 

[Fasttr]

There shouldn't be. Renting a week is your right as an owner.

Looking at vacationpointexchange, there are a couple of conspicuous listings that look like "professional renters" (those looking to rent an unspecified number of points). I've also had a couple of people approach me for my point listings and they did not seem like "occasional" renters.

But this change will not limit how many they can transfer OUT.

Reading your post again, were you talking about BUY side renters?

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

This may be a sales tool to encourage those big users who consistently receive points to go out and purchase their own points instead.......



.

 

[billymach4]

This may be a sales tool to encourage those big users who consistently receive points to go out and purchase their own points instead.......



.

Or... ? Is Marriott taking a page out of the Wyndham Mega Renter example. Preventive Measure?

 

[billymach4]

Drip drip

@dioxide45 Not sure I get the innuendo? Are you intending to say this is a small drip at filling up by Mother Marriott to take away small perks?

 

[emeryjre]

There are several groups consolidating points and booking prime weeks. Probably using bots at MVC. Perfect example is the Marriott Grand Chateau for F1 week in 2023. I tried to get a points reservation at 13 month mark at point I thought units were being released. Nothing. Again at 12 month mark, nothing available. I am getting emails from the people that have the unit reservations. The group has anything I want available to rent at high rates. They didn't just stumble into these reservations. They groups sought out high value reservation and sucked the pool dry. My guess and HO is the action at Grand Chateau may have triggered this points cap.

 

[DanCali]

Reading your post again, were you talking about BUY side renters?

Yes, in particular these two listings strike me as "pro renters" (i.e., they rent points from others and them probably do bookings to rent out at higher $/point) although it's just my opinion:

VERIFIED SELLER – Looking to Rent YOUR 2023 Usage Year Club Points

I have rented or transferred over 450,000 Marriott Vacation Club Points to other Club members, but now, I am looking to rent your unrestricted (must not have been banked, borrowed or previou...

vacationpointexchange.com

WANTED 2022/2023 transferable points -expiring points OK. Thank you!

I want to buy/rent your 2022/2023 points that are transferable to our MVC account at $0.50~0.65/point. Please contact me ASAP. Thanks.

vacationpointexchange.com

 

[dioxide45]

Are there that many reservations that can be made where you would make a profit at $0.65 per point?

 

[dioxide45]

@dioxide45 Not sure I get the innuendo? Are you intending to say this is a small drip at filling up by Mother Marriott to take away small perks?

Big changes occur slowly over time. 20K limit today, 10K limit in five years from now. Then a 5 guest cert limit some time further down the road...

 

[DanCali]

Are there that many reservations that can be made where you would make a profit at $0.65 per point?

There are some opportunities for that, yes. Playing that game can get you over $1/point quite easily and even over $2 with some luck (booking at relatively low seasons, Sun-Fri) but it does involve advance planning, making a booking, paying listing fees, and taking the risk it doesn't rent when your points are not bankable. It kind of becomes a full-time job...

One example is HHI (Sunset Point, Harbour Pointe) in early December. You can get a 2BR for a full week for 400 points. Don't you think that's rentable for $700 ($100/night which would be $1.75/point)? The Sun-Fri stay would be 250 points so if you rent that for $500 that's $2/point, which is triple the $0.65-$0.70 one can get from renting points outright.

 

[SueDonJ]

I like their approach, putting a cap on the number of points being transferred IN to accounts while at the same time, allowing for special-circumstance-waivers on an as-needed/by-request basis. This preserves the expressed rights in the governing docs that allows transfers as well as rentals, and doesn't penalize the owners of a gazillion points from continuing to rent OUT their points to multiple people. (Think of the Residence Club owners specifically who were encouraged to enroll their gazillion-points-generating shares by the stated promise to be able to rent them out.)

I understand the drip-drip warning. And as an owner who has dabbled in renting out high-demand points reservations I'll admit, I would like to see them similarly attack rentals by putting a limit on the number of reservations in an owner's account to which guest names can be added. Weeks or Points, I've always been in favor of them enforcing in one way or another the vague "no commercial activity" prohibition that's in all the docs.

Should be interesting going forward.

 

[dioxide45]

I suspect the "special circumstance" will have some type of restriction like they can't have a name change made on any reservations with them.