Point at Poipu Oceanview Units

[TTom]

Hi Everyone!

Looking for some updated information on the oceanview units at Point at Poipu. We have stayed on the second floor of building 5 a couple of times, but we have heard that the recent construction next door has obliterated the ocean views on that side of the resort. Can anyone confirm (or deny) that? We are also considering building 9. We have never stayed on that side and wondering about the views and the walk to the pool. The oceanview units are 107-307 and 206-306. There are oceanview units in building 7, but we are skeptical of the hillside blocking that view. The only oceanview units in building 8 are the ground floor, and they don't seem to have much of an oceanview (we requested a move the one time they put us in one of those units).

Mostly, looking for some current information.

Aloha!

Tom

 

[h2oflyboy]

Hi Everyone!

Looking for some updated information on the oceanview units at Point at Poipu. We have stayed on the second floor of building 5 a couple of times, but we have heard that the recent construction next door has obliterated the ocean views on that side of the resort. Can anyone confirm (or deny) that? We are also considering building 9. We have never stayed on that side and wondering about the views and the walk to the pool. The oceanview units are 107-307 and 206-306. There are oceanview units in building 7, but we are skeptical of the hillside blocking that view. The only oceanview units in building 8 are the ground floor, and they don't seem to have much of an oceanview (we requested a move the one time they put us in one of those units).

Mostly, looking for some current information.

Aloha!

Tom

Aloha


Yes, the views looking south are gone from Bldg 3 - you still have views to the west - but not for long as that is where Lots 1 and 2 of the new development, Makahū‘ena Estates will be located. https://poipuoceanfront.com/

I explained to the Manager of P@P, these units can no longer be considered OV or OF.

 

[TTom]

Aloha


Yes, the views looking south are gone from Bldg 3 - you still have views to the west - but not for long as that is where Lots 1 and 2 of the new development, Makahū‘ena Estates will be located. https://poipuoceanfront.com/

I explained to the Manager of P@P, these units can no longer be considered OV or OF.

Thanks! Sad, but we have our fingers crossed!

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Aloha


Yes, the views looking south are gone from Bldg 3 - you still have views to the west - but not for long as that is where Lots 1 and 2 of the new development, Makahū‘ena Estates will be located. https://poipuoceanfront.com/

I explained to the Manager of P@P, these units can no longer be considered OV or OF.

A tough nut to crack.

First - I don't think management has the ability to change view categories. View categories for specific units are established in the underlying timeshare programs attached to the deeds. Thus, changing view categories involves modifying the deeds, which could only be done with the permission of the individual or entity that holds the deed.

Second - changing view categories creates an immediate inventory control problem. Almost all of the deeds at the property were sold as floating units, and the underlying deed arrangements were set up to prevent more units in a view category from being sold than there were available for usage. If deeds are downgraded, now there is an inventory imbalance - you have more people who were sold oceanview units than there are available units. I understand that was a requirement of the Hawaii Department of Real Estate when the program was set up. So simply downgrading might create some specific legal issues.

Third - You can't reasonable say "tough luck" to the people who happened to wind up with a deed to a now-downgraded unit because the timeshare documents are explicit that the ownership of a deed in a view category is solely for inventory control purposes and confers no rights whatsover to the use of that particular deeded unit. So, doing so would not only contravene the premises on which the property was sold, it would create conflicts in the legal documents.

IMHO - what is going to be needed is for the timeshare owners association to begin acquiring oceanfront deeds in sufficient quantity to offset the view changes, and then go through the legal process of modifying those deeds to change the view categories to maintain inventory balance.

 

[TTom]

A tough nut to crack.

First - I don't think management has the ability to change view categories. View categories for specific units are established in the underlying timeshare programs attached to the deeds. Thus, changing view categories involves modifying the deeds, which could only be done with the permission of the individual or entity that holds the deed.

Second - changing view categories creates an immediate inventory control problem. Almost all of the deeds at the property were sold as floating units, and the underlying deed arrangements were set up to prevent more units in a view category from being sold than there were available for usage. If deeds are downgraded, now there is an inventory imbalance - you have more people who were sold oceanview units than there are available units. I understand that was a requirement of the Hawaii Department of Real Estate when the program was set up. So simply downgrading might create some specific legal issues.

Third - You can't reasonable say "tough luck" to the people who happened to wind up with a deed to a now-downgraded unit because the timeshare documents are explicit that the ownership of a deed in a view category is solely for inventory control purposes and confers no rights whatsover to the use of that particular deeded unit. So, doing so would not only contravene the premises on which the property was sold, it would create conflicts in the legal documents.

IMHO - what is going to be needed is for the timeshare owners association to begin acquiring oceanfront deeds in sufficient quantity to offset the view changes, and then go through the legal process of modifying those deeds to change the view categories to maintain inventory balance.

Sounds about right to me. I can foresee a lot of unhappy owners in the coming years. Some people visit the resort for what it offers beyond the views; others, not so much. Hard to pay $2000+ to look at a $10M oceanview estate next door. Sad!

 

[h2oflyboy]

A tough nut to crack.

First - I don't think management has the ability to change view categories. View categories for specific units are established in the underlying timeshare programs attached to the deeds. Thus, changing view categories involves modifying the deeds, which could only be done with the permission of the individual or entity that holds the deed.

Second - changing view categories creates an immediate inventory control problem. Almost all of the deeds at the property were sold as floating units, and the underlying deed arrangements were set up to prevent more units in a view category from being sold than there were available for usage. If deeds are downgraded, now there is an inventory imbalance - you have more people who were sold oceanview units than there are available units. I understand that was a requirement of the Hawaii Department of Real Estate when the program was set up. So simply downgrading might create some specific legal issues.

Third - You can't reasonable say "tough luck" to the people who happened to wind up with a deed to a now-downgraded unit because the timeshare documents are explicit that the ownership of a deed in a view category is solely for inventory control purposes and confers no rights whatsover to the use of that particular deeded unit. So, doing so would not only contravene the premises on which the property was sold, it would create conflicts in the legal documents.

IMHO - what is going to be needed is for the timeshare owners association to begin acquiring oceanfront deeds in sufficient quantity to offset the view changes, and then go through the legal process of modifying those deeds to change the view categories to maintain inventory balance.

Yes, all of your statements are valid; as a guest (not owner) staying there after Lots 1 & 2 are built, I don't give a darn what the deed says. I booked an ocean front unit and there are buildings blocking Bldg 3.

 

[FunnyFarm]

If the HOA aquires OF and OV deeds and converts them to the reality of the actual exising views the could be another consequence.
Increased competition for the diminished amount of actual OF/OV unit reservations.
Legacy Float/Float & OF owners for sure. I imagine the same would be true for The Club members as well.
As Trog says, a very tough nut.
Definately going to be disappointed owners in the coming years, as Ttom says, especially those that reserve late.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Yes, all of your statements are valid; as a guest (not owner) staying there after Lots 1 & 2 are built, I don't give a darn what the deed says. I booked an ocean front unit and there are buildings blocking Bldg 3.

Totally valid.

 

[cd5]

I would think they could certainly change the "name" of the units affected, if not the point value. Having an accurate name describing the units should be the first - and a relatively easy - step. Why would this not be possible?

 

[TTom]

I would think they could certainly change the "name" of the units affected, if not the point value. Having an accurate name describing the units should be the first - and a relatively easy - step. Why would this not be possible?

Not sure what you mean by that. Units are “named” by their view category, and those categories have specific definitions. Those definitions are tied to specific contracts. In fact, it seems to me that even “hotel” reservations are sold by view category. As was said earlier, changing the rules at this point is going to be very difficult and painful.

 

[GT75]

I would think they could certainly change the "name" of the units affected, if not the point value.

I don't think that it is that simple because the affected deeded units include the view categories. If those deeded units are listed as ocean view, then that will be a problem.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Why would this not be possible?

Because the view category for each unit is specified in the deed for that unit. And the ability to make reservations is specifically tied to that view category in the deed.

 

[cd5]

Couldn't that cause problems with a court case down the road because of people believing that they are getting views and the "rental cost" being more than is justified for the non-existent views? Surely there's a legal way to work around this? At the very least, for any place these units are offered, shouldn't there be a very visible warning about what the renter/exchanger is really getting?

 

[TTom]

Couldn't that cause problems with a court case down the road because of people believing that they are getting views and the "rental cost" being more than is justified for the non-existent views? Surely there's a legal way to work around this? At the very least, for any place these units are offered, shouldn't there be a very visible warning about what the renter/exchanger is really getting?

The problem is that units are not assigned until check-in, and I imagine that Hilton is not going to trash renters who are paying several hundred dollars a night for a specific view category, which is likely to leave owners “in the lurch.” Exchangers (not HGV club members) are used to getting the leftovers, but anyone who reserves an oceanview unit and pays a premium for it (whether in points or in dollars) is not going to be happy looking at a condo instead of the ocean. I can only imagine how fixed owners in Bldg. 3 feel right about now.

 

[cd5]

I'm considering as an "exchanger" anyone who doesn't have a deed/specific room at the resort. One pretty much always uses more points for "oceanview" so it's pretty pissy to not get what one "paid" for...

 

[TravelJoy]

Couldn't that cause problems with a court case down the road because of people believing that they are getting views and the "rental cost" being more than is justified for the non-existent views? Surely there's a legal way to work around this? At the very least, for any place these units are offered, shouldn't there be a very visible warning about what the renter/exchanger is really getting?

Court or no court in the same manner interval attempted to pull a fast one, if they can get away with it they will try.

 

[TTom]

I'm considering as an "exchanger" anyone who doesn't have a deed/specific room at the resort. One pretty much always uses more points for "oceanview" so it's pretty pissy to not get what one "paid" for...

Yeah, well, as a long time owner, it’s pretty pissy to be paying maintenace fees for years and getting to look at a condo. Both sides have a point and, unfortunately, the resort dropped the ball when they didn’t buy the property next door. Now, they have an untenable situation. Somebody is going to lose, and I fear it’s going to be the owners.

 

[cd5]

It usually is, isn't it? I feel for you.

 

[h2oflyboy]

P@P was a Legacy DRI. Did they buy deeds at this property in the past? Currently, the DVC side of HGVC is only selling trust points and thus booking an OV/OF could be moved to ANY OV/OF.

 

[GT75]

DVC side of HGVC

Do you mean, HVC of HGV?

 

[TTom]

P@P was a Legacy DRI. Did they buy deeds at this property in the past? Currently, the DVC side of HGVC is only selling trust points and thus booking an OV/OF could be moved to ANY OV/OF.

The same is true for original float owners (like us).