Please Help, No Idea What I'm Doing!

[squeeze]

I thought everyone thought that Starwood wasn't going to be the best option for us? So I guess then knowing that a) We like to stay in a nice place, b) we don't travel for a week at a time, c) I think we want our main place to be either in Orlando or Sarasota, d) I want to be able to transfer my points to both other destinations and to use in hotels (I travel for work to Atlanta and Dallas and spend a good amount of money on hotels each year), which of these ts do you recommend for me?

Corsy.
We own at SVV and I wouldn't tell you its great for what you are looking for either. Seems like our travels were somewhat simlar to yours and we have lost two weeks (two years worth and over $2,000 worth of usage) in the past 7 years from simply not using it.

When transferring to use the hotel points, its not a great value. You don't get many starpoints (for hotel usage) for your staroptions (your resort points) + there's a fee to convert--- making the value even worse.

We currently have two years setting at II and will lose another week this year (over $1,000 again) unless we give it away or rent it for nearly nothing (and at a loss). I don't like the thought of paying for someone else's vacation (so therefore, I usually don't look to give it away).

For 2012 I plan to pay that crazy fee to convert to starpoints (for hotel use) so we can at least use them. I just have to sit and giggle at times, otherwise I would probably be crying. :hysterical: This economy has been a real kick in the pants.

For the fees we pay and the conversion to keep it (because resale is hideous and we do use it some) I would highly suggest you join a hotel rewards program and sign up for the bonus points and get a credit card with your preferred hotel to earn the points you need to maximize. This way you can stay at the hotels of your choice and simply rent a condo/timeshare when you choose you want that for your vacation. :whoopie:

with your $1,000 spend on your hotel stay or stays (instead of maintenance fees---) plus the bonus options and promos that are offered (nearly year around) from the hotel programs + the credit card spend, you would be far ahead in what you would get.

Thanks to all the great people here at TUGS you will likely always be able to get advice on travel ideas (if wanted) and also to help you with getting a rental at a fair price whenever you choose for the timeshare/condo.

We travel and use our hotel points quite a bit. And, it sounds like you need the flexibility of long weekends or short stays. You can get this with a credit card (earning points on daily purchases) and a rewards program that the hotels offer.

If you still insist on a timeshare, I may have one to sell you at SVV. :ignore:

 

[VacationForever]

Corsy, my recommendation is to take your $1000 per year and spend on whatever hotel you would like to stay at. Your expectations of (a) to (d) plus 10K out of pocket upfront and the limit of 1K per year in maintenance fees do not match with reality of timesharing.

 

[DeniseM]

What about membership in a Vacation Club any recommendations there? Surely I cannot be the only person with these travel needs?

Vacation Clubs have no underlying deeded ownership. When they go under - they have your $$$ and you have nothing.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Vacation Clubs have no underlying deeded ownership. When they go under - they have your $$$ and you have nothing.

At this exact moment in time, i'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing, right now the economy is shaky for some(i have a solid job, but alot don't) if things get bad for more people....With a deeded TS, they face foreclosure, with a Vacation Club, its only a bad debt, which is still a credit hit, but not as bad

If a vacation club folds, your debt stops, i'm not sure what happens when a timeshare folds honestly, do you get the $1 back the week is worth?

 

[DeniseM]

At this exact moment in time, i'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing, right now the economy is shaky for some(i have a solid job, but alot don't) if things get bad for more people....With a deeded TS, they face foreclosure, with a Vacation Club, its only a bad debt, which is still a credit hit, but not as bad

If a vacation club folds, your debt stops, i'm not sure what happens when a timeshare folds honestly, do you get the $1 back the week is worth?

If a timeshare "folds" the underlying property is sold - sometimes for condos, but at least there is an underlying property to sell. If the property is sold, there is no longer a maintenance fee, and you don't own a timeshare any more. Also, it's pretty rare for a timeshare to go under - although it has happened with some small independents.

With a vacation club, if the company goes bankrupt there is nothing. On a daily basis we have people come to TUG and ask about buying into a vacation club. I haven't seen one yet I would risk a cent on - much less the thousands that they want.

I will take my chances with a timeshare over a vacation club any day. You apparently feel the same way.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I will take my chances with a timeshare over a vacation club any day. You apparently feel the same way.

In my current situation, with the research i've done, i no question prefer TS's....But honestly, i've done zero research on Vacation clubs, what i have read about them is shady, IMO, that doesn't mean they are all shady, just that the good one's are hard to find

 

[DeniseM]

In my current situation, with the research i've done, i no question prefer TS's....But honestly, i've done zero research on Vacation clubs, what i have read about them is shady, IMO, that doesn't mean they are all shady, just that the good one's are hard to find

If you find a good one, please let us know. The problem with vacation clubs is that they have no in-club TS inventory, so most of their vacations are the leftovers from the exchange companies. In other words, the club doesn't own any timeshares, so you aren't going to get prime trades from them.

 

[IndyJoe]

Thanks Denise, here goes!

1) Where do you want your home resort to be? I think that Orlando makes the most sense since we go there every year pretty much now and it's easy and not expensive to get to!
2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time? Probably will use it more in the next 5-10 years, then will trade more.
3) What are your 5 top trade destinations? So many places I'd like to go! All over Europe, Greece, Arizona, California, Bermuda, Other Carribean.
4) How many people do you usually travel with? Usually just my husband and I or with the 3 kids.
5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule? Locked in to school schedule. That's why we only travel 4 days at a time because I hate traveling during the busy holiday times and can only take them out of school for 2 days at a time.
6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance? More than likely!
7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time? We never do!
8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars? 4 or 5
9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing? Probably about $10,000 but the free ones seem much better!
10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year? Probably not more than $1000.
11) Are you a detail oriented planner? Usually.
12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do? Yes but I feel that I can and will be able to manage the up to $1000/year.

Does that answer everything? I really, really appreciate the guidance, you all saved me $20,000!

I think Ron's advise is right on. Wyndham might be a good choice for you. Check out Bonnet Creek right in the Disney property. We use our weeks in Atlantis and Vegas, but use Wyndham points for 3 and 4 day vacations. This year as an example using 3 nights before a cruise in Ft. Lauderdale and the rest in San Diego. Not even going to our home resort in 2012. Bonnet Creek is very nice and I would give this resort 4 stars. But as mentioned in other posts, Wyndhams tend to be more in the 3 star range. Might be an option to at least research.

 

[ronparise]

Im at Bonnett Creek now. Ill be writing something about the desk clerk and her supervisor (all good) the room they gave, me (probably the best in the place), The parking pass lady, and the new hotel, (now open) For now its back to bed

 

[heathpack]

Vacation Clubs have no underlying deeded ownership. When they go under - they have your $$$ and you have nothing.

I think it is possible that the OP, who is not very familiar with timesharing, is referring to points-based or other deeded timeshares with a points component- ie, DisneyVacation Club, Hyatt Vacation Club, Shell Vacation Club, etc.

In fact, other than the fact that even resale DVC is expensive, DVC might be an option:
1. Multiple units in Orlando
2. Can book any number of nights
3. Decent resale value, so can sell when kids are grown
4. Can buy just what OP needs- ie the equivalent of 5-9 nights per year, easily split into 2 trips

OP would then need a cheap trader to meet travel needs other than Orlando.

If OP could live with studio units in DVC (after all, there have been multiple suggestions OP go the hotel route), would need to stay at AKV when the kids come (because these units sleep 5). Might not need to buy there, that ones not too hard to trade in @7 month mark. Could get initial purchase in OP budget (resale) & MF would be in the $800/yr range.

So one approach:
1. Buy DVC resale 160 ish points, use this for WDW/Orlando stays: purchase price $9000-$12000, MF ~$800/yr, total cost over 10 years $20,000ish
2. Pick up a free trader, say SDO, with MF in the $400/yr range. Total cost over 10 years including II membership & exchange fees $6000ish

Yes, that would put OP somewhat above their 10 year budget of approx. $20,000. However, the DVC can likely be sold at the 10-year mark for $4-6,000. They couldn't count on that, but it would not be an unreasonable number to plug in when looking at the math. Thus, the DVC + other trader idea is actually probably within their budget.

Just a thought, we own DVC and will say it is barely an ok value. Hyatt way better. But DVC might work well for these folks.

H

 

[Corsy]

Thanks for the insight...I thought I read a lot of bad things about Bonnet Creek here? Also I really don't know of wyndam's where I go, can anyone answer whether Hilton, Hyatt or Marriott would allow the less frequent time and use of hotels? It's all very confusing Bc there seems to be differing opinions about whether a ts is for me and the value of a vacation club!

 

[DeniseM]

In general, converting to hotel points is a poor value. If you would rather stay in hotels, then I would not bother with buying a timeshare.

Bonnett Creek is very popular - you can read some bad reviews about every resort, but overall - it has a good rating.

You choices will be a lot broader if you aren't locked into ONLY 4 day vacations. Most timeshare systems are set up for reservations of 7 nights. Honestly, if you started taking 7 day vacations, you'd never go back to 4 days. Especially with kids, it's a lot of trouble to pack up and travel for only 4 days. A week makes it a lot more worthwhile, and there is certainly enough in Orlando to keep you busy for 7 days at a time. Your kids are out of school the whole summer - I think you should reconsider that position. I'm a teacher myself, so I'm locked into the school schedule - vacationing during school holidays is very doable.

Personally, if I could only take 4 day vacations, and I wanted to visit Orlando, I wouldn't buy a timeshare. For 4 night trips, I'd just rent from other timeshare owners. There are LOTS of inexpensive timeshare rentals in Orlando.

 

[ronparise]

Thanks for the insight...I thought I read a lot of bad things about Bonnet Creek here? Also I really don't know of wyndam's where I go, can anyone answer whether Hilton, Hyatt or Marriott would allow the less frequent time and use of hotels? It's all very confusing Bc there seems to be differing opinions about whether a ts is for me and the value of a vacation club!

Im at Bonnet Creek now..Its a great place.

No one can make a decision for you, the best we can do is to share our experience. And we are a diverse group.Sometimes I think we couldnt agree that today is Wednesday. To expect some agreement among us on what you should do is asking too much.

Rent for a while, use us for our opinions, read...but then decide. Its your decision..after all you will have to live with it...not us

 

[ScubaKat]

I agree with renting for a while just to visit the different resorts to see what you like.. We were given a great Wyndham points contract here on TUG bargain forum before we visited any of the Wyndham properties.. during the transfer process we rented and visited Wyndham's Ocean Boulevard... the hubby decided that we wanted something nicer when we vacation.. but I felt bad backing out after we had already agreed and started the transfer process.. for the points we actually traded into a week at AKV in March.. used some points booked a 1BR and traded in SFX for a Marriott Ocean Pointe week in August and the other week for Christmas at The Manhattan Club!

The subsequent weeks we bought Marriott since we liked the quality of the resorts and they had resorts in locations were we would like to travel.

 

[VacationForever]

Thanks for the insight...I thought I read a lot of bad things about Bonnet Creek here? Also I really don't know of wyndam's where I go, can anyone answer whether Hilton, Hyatt or Marriott would allow the less frequent time and use of hotels? It's all very confusing Bc there seems to be differing opinions about whether a ts is for me and the value of a vacation club!

Resale Hyatt and Marriott do not allow you to convert to hotel points. Buying from developer which allows you to convert is going to cost you $30-70K depending on location. I am not familiar with Hilton. You may want to look at Hilton as a TUGger had mentioned that resale Hilton does allow conversion to hotel points. My opinion is that Wyndam is 3*...

 

[jarta]

Corsy, ... I am a big fan of Starwood timeshares. I own 7 of them. They are (mostly) high quality timeshare resorts in pretty varied locations. However,

1. I hope you have rescinded by now. There is no purchase from Starwood that cannot be duplicated weeks or even months from now. There is no rush.

2. The reason I think you should rescind is that you have not yet formulated an overall plan for purchasing and using timeshares (no matter where they are and who is selling them). At the very least for the Starwood branded resorts (SVO), any developer purchase should be your 2nd or 3rd purchase of a Starwood timeshare week.

3. Buying anything from Starwood (or any other developer) cannot be done just for the purchase of the week itself. Resale prices are so cheap that there must be a bonus to purchasing from the developer. (With Starwood the bonuses are Elite membership at 4 Star or 5 Star Elite, the ability to retro a prior purchase at the same time the developer purchase is made and gobs and gobs of free and discounted rights to purchase Starpoints (Starwood's rewards programs for hotels - which can also be traded out for air miles).

4. The basic choice is whether you will be OK to trade in the II external system or the Starwood internal SVN StarOption system. I suggest that you make your Starwood first purchases on the resale market and that the resales be at places you want to go in the very best season and at the 2-br lockoff float level so that they are worth 148,100 StarOptions if you ever want to retro the units as something extra when/if you ever make a Starwood developer purchase.

5. To my way of thinking, there are only 2 ways to go with Starwood. Using II and its Starwood preference to make trades and keep purchase prices and annual assessments as low as possible. Or, being 4 Star or 5 Star Elite and using StarOptions and their flexibility and ease of use and taking full advantage of the Elite benefits.

However, being an Elite means having lots of weeks, a much greater acquisition cost and much higher yearly assessments due to lots of weeks. And, because of the higher number of 2-br weeks owned, greater travel expense and a requirement that you be able to take off for all those vacations.

In other words, 4 or 5 Star Elite status is not for everyone. Most people cannot afford it. If you can, good for you. It's great.

But, the initial expense of buying a developer week is why I suggest buying 1 or 2 resale units with the possibility of retroing each week for 148,100 StarOptions per week. That's only if you decide to go with Starwood.

Whatever you do, decide which branded system best fits your needs, have a detailed plan for using what you buy and do not overbuy weeks that you cannot later afford. GLTY! ... eom

 

[alexadeparis]

Hilton Grand Vacations Club has facilities in Orlando and is high quality. Even buying and using resale, you can convert the HGVC points to Hilton HHonors points. MF are usually around $1000-$1300 a year for a 7,000 point contract. You should look into that group.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Iwe are a diverse group.Sometimes I think we couldnt agree that today is Wednesday.

In Beijing it is Thursday

 

[spencersmama]

I know there are many others that have weighed in on the issue, but no one has mentioned that Orlando is the time share capital of the world. There are ALWAYS trades available in Orlando. If you are only interested in coming here for the relatively short term, I would buy someplace else that you would like to return to for the long term.

I do have to agree that it sounds like a traditional time share may not be for you. Since you say you travel a lot for work, can you join a hotel frequent stay program and stay at the same chain all the time? That way you build up points you can redeem for free or reduced vacations. I make my DH do this for his work travel. Now I am actually looking forward to his two week trip to Asia. I see it as the equivalent of a free airline ticket and a couple free nights in a hotel room for our summer vacation!

 

[stevens397]

I think you should go to www.redweek.com and look at rentals. While there are some rentals available of less than one week, many of the full week prices are so incredibly low that you could take it, use it only four nights and still feel you did very, very well - for a two bedroom! And please be aware that these are asking prices!

In this economy, I would strongly urge you to consider renting. You might pay a tad more than the maintenance fee but there would be no upfront capital cost - and as others have stated, that cost is basically flushed down the toilet. The resale market is very weak right now and few places are weaker than Orlando.

 

[Saltydog44]

Another Idea

Corsy

If you're still thinking - For many years, we worked the points system at Marriott and AA independent of the TS concept. By using a charge card for EVERYTHING and paying it off each month, we accumulated well over 500,000 points. This allowed us to stay in hotels and in some cases, villas. It might not work for you, but when we were working, this gave a us a lot of flexibility. We now own TS's and although we are not approved by the folks here on the BB because of the way we acquired them, we are really happy. We continue to work the points for additional flexibility. Clearly one size doesn't fit all so this is just a thought