Penalized because one of my contracts is listed as developer

[northovr]

Just got off the phone with owner relations which I believe are in the Philippines. Since one of my contracts is listed as a even year developer contract at 126000 the odd year contract is listed as resale they do not get mixed with my resale contracts so I only receive 4 transaction and 4 housekeeper credits even years and 5 on old years where my all my contracts are listed as resale. I have 385000 points every year. So since my listed develop contract is even years I am penalized for this. I have the same amount of points every year. Mel said its in my contract I ask for a letter and this in writing for proof they said that my That is my answer. I am so pissed. She said she didn't have a supervisor too. lts not logical but typical Club Wyndham BS.

Daniel

 

[Richelle]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but unless you're VIP, resale and resale are no different when it comes to transaction and housekeeping credits. Also, reservation fees have gone away, so do not worry about those. You get one HK credit for every 70,000 points you own. It goes by use year. So if your even years you had 385,000 opints, you'd get 5 HK credits. If on odd years you got 210,000 points, you'd only get 3 credits. If you have the same amount every year, you get the same number of HK credits every year.

They do not train the vacation reps very well. To be fair though, it's a complicated system for anyone to learn.

 

[northovr]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but unless you're VIP, resale and resale are no different when it comes to transaction and housekeeping credits. Also, reservation fees have gone away, so do not worry about those. You get one HK credit for every 70,000 points you own. It goes by use year. So if your even years you had 385,000 opints, you'd get 5 HK credits. If on odd years you got 210,000 points, you'd only get 3 credits. If you have the same amount every year, you get the same number of HK credits every year.

They do not train the vacation reps very well. To be fair though, it's a complicated system for anyone to learn.

Nope not According to Mel at owner resolutions my even year developer listed contract is separated from my other contracts I so on even years I get one for 126000 and 3 259000. It’s BS I getting ready to write a letter

Daniel

 

[northovr]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but unless you're VIP, resale and resale are no different when it comes to transaction and housekeeping credits. Also, reservation fees have gone away, so do not worry about those. You get one HK credit for every 70,000 points you own. It goes by use year. So if your even years you had 385,000 opints, you'd get 5 HK credits. If on odd years you got 210,000 points, you'd only get 3 credits. If you have the same amount every year, you get the same number of HK credits every year.

They do not train the vacation reps very well. To be fair though, it's a complicated system for anyone to learn.

It’s one for every 77000 points too not 70000

 

[Richelle]

It’s one for every 77000 points too not 70000

Nope, it's 70,000

 

[paxsarah]

This was an issue when they first separated resale and retail, but I thought they’d fixed it. They either didn’t fix it after all, or they did fix it then and it reverted back at some point.

 

[paxsarah]

This was an issue when they first separated resale and retail, but I thought they’d fixed it. They either didn’t fix it after all, or they did fix it then and it reverted back at some point.

I brought it up here based on a Facebook report.
It was confirmed by Wyndham in one of their webinars about the changes that there should be no changes to the underlying calculation of housekeeping and reservation transactions for non-VIP hybrid owners.
It was eventually added to the spreadsheet HitchHiker71 was using to communicate with Wyndham regarding bugs and regressions with the implementation of the separation of retail/resale.

I guess after that I don't know if it was ever actually fixed, but @HitchHiker71 might.

 

[northovr]

Nope, it's 70,000

View attachment 72765

ok I was mistaken sorry
Daniel

 

[paxsarah]

And I 100% disagree with the owner relations rep's assessment of the situation. First of all, it's not in anybody's contract. This was a result of the implementation of new policy enforcement *for VIP owners only* in 2021. I presume your contracts are older than that. Second, there has been no published change to the calculation of housekeeping and reservation credits. There is nothing in writing in the directory or website (which *is* the home of the policy) that indicates any exceptions to the housekeeping or reservation calculations for non-VIPs since the 2021 website change. And third, if Wyndham did actually intend this to be the new policy, they would be *penalizing* owners for having bought from Wyndham at all. That is, a resale-only owner with the same configuration of odd, even, and annual contracts would get *more* housekeeping credits than you. That's absurd on its face.

 

[Richelle]

And third, if Wyndham did actually intend this to be the new policy, they would be *penalizing* owners for having bought from Wyndham at all. That is, a resale-only owner with the same configuration of odd, even, and annual contracts would get *more* housekeeping credits than you. That's absurd on its face.

That confused me as well. I could see them saying that about resale, but not retail.

 

[northovr]

ok I was mistaken sorry
Danie

its 770000 for each transaction credit I was confused thinking they were equal sorry again my mistake
Daniel

 

[northovr]

And I 100% disagree with the owner relations rep's assessment of the situation. First of all, it's not in anybody's contract. This was a result of the implementation of new policy enforcement *for VIP owners only* in 2021. I presume your contracts are older than that. Second, there has been no published change to the calculation of housekeeping and reservation credits. There is nothing in writing in the directory or website (which *is* the home of the policy) that indicates any exceptions to the housekeeping or reservation calculations for non-VIPs since the 2021 website change. And third, if Wyndham did actually intend this to be the new policy, they would be *penalizing* owners for having bought from Wyndham at all. That is, a resale-only owner with the same configuration of odd, even, and annual contracts would get *more* housekeeping credits than you. That's absurd on its face.

Well I told Mel at Owner resolution basically all your objections and she said it was correct
That why I was pissed
Daniel

 

[paxsarah]

Well I told Mel at Owner resolution basically all your objections and she said it was correct
That why I was pissed
Daniel

I mean, she’s wrong, but I don’t know how to convince someone who holds the power that they’re wrong. I’d probably keep asking to see it in writing. “Where is the policy written that these points are separate for non-VIPs?” And I don’t go citing Michael Brown as a resource willy nilly, but it might be the type of situation where you might get a more thoughtful response from his office.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I brought it up here based on a Facebook report.
It was confirmed by Wyndham in one of their webinars about the changes that there should be no changes to the underlying calculation of housekeeping and reservation transactions for non-VIP hybrid owners.
It was eventually added to the spreadsheet HitchHiker71 was using to communicate with Wyndham regarding bugs and regressions with the implementation of the separation of retail/resale.

I guess after that I don't know if it was ever actually fixed, but @HitchHiker71 might.

I don't think it was ever fixed - nor do I expect it to be at this point. Bottom line is what changed is how the HKCs and RTs (which really don't matter any longer since they are free now) are being calculated. Prior to the system changes for hybrid VIP owners - the retail and resale points were "combined" and then the HKCs were calculated based on the total amount. Now they are calculated separately and then added together - which sometimes results in one less HKC from what we have observed. The last time I went down this path - I was told that that the system is working as designed - and that the points will no longer be totaled up - whether VIP or non-VIP is immaterial. You could always email the CEO (michael.brown@travelandleisure.com) and attempt to have the policy changed of course.

 

[paxsarah]

and attempt to have the policy changed

To call it a policy would imply that it's written down somewhere. Two directories have come out since this website update was put in place, and it's not written down in either of them.

I continue to believe that this is an unintended consequence of the programming they did to separate resale and developer points for VIP owners, and that its impact on hybrid non-VIPs is not fully understood by Wyndham. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had this question and answer during the webinar where Wyndham specifically stated there was to be no change to the way reservation transactions or housekeeping credits were calculated. And we wouldn't have a situation in which a resale-only owner would actually receive more housekeeping credits (and RTs, though less salient now) in some instances than a hybrid non-VIP with the same number of points.

I do believe that Wyndham may be saying that the system is working as intended, but what I believe is actually happening is they're retconning that unintended consequence as something that they always meant to do, because they don't feel like going back and fixing their mistake.

We also have an added issue in that Daniel's contract that's coded as developer was actually purchased resale. So Wyndham mistakenly coded his contract in a way that one would typically assume of some sort of benefit to a resale owner - but instead, that incorrect coding is actually penalizing him. So I guess if Wyndham is saying that the system is working as intended, my course of action if I were Daniel would be to argue to have that contract coded correctly as resale (at least, as long as an extra housekeeping credit is more valuable to him than potential access to Club Pass in alternate years).

 

[HitchHiker71]

To call it a policy would imply that it's written down somewhere. Two directories have come out since this website update was put in place, and it's not written down in either of them.

I continue to believe that this is an unintended consequence of the programming they did to separate resale and developer points for VIP owners, and that its impact on hybrid non-VIPs is not fully understood by Wyndham. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had this question and answer during the webinar where Wyndham specifically stated there was to be no change to the way reservation transactions or housekeeping credits were calculated. And we wouldn't have a situation in which a resale-only owner would actually receive more housekeeping credits (and RTs, though less salient now) in some instances than a hybrid non-VIP with the same number of points.

I do believe that Wyndham may be saying that the system is working as intended, but what I believe is actually happening is they're retconning that unintended consequence as something that they always meant to do, because they don't feel like going back and fixing their mistake.

We also have an added issue in that Daniel's contract that's coded as developer was actually purchased resale. So Wyndham mistakenly coded his contract in a way that one would typically assume of some sort of benefit to a resale owner - but instead, that incorrect coding is actually penalizing him. So I guess if Wyndham is saying that the system is working as intended, my course of action if I were Daniel would be to argue to have that contract coded correctly as resale (at least, as long as an extra housekeeping credit is more valuable to him than potential access to Club Pass in alternate years).

In any case - I'd address this concern via Michael Brown's office. I also didn't read the OPs wording as meaning one of his contracts was mistakenly labelled as developer vs resale - I simply read it as one of his contracts is developer - and the other four contracts are resale. Perhaps @northovr can confirm?

 

[northovr]

In any case - I'd address this concern via Michael Brown's office. I also didn't read the OPs wording as meaning one of his contracts was mistakenly labelled as developer vs resale - I simply read it as one of his contracts is developer - and the other four contracts are resale. Perhaps @northovr can confirm?

Al my contracts are resale one is mislabeled as a developer too my detriment

Daniel

 

[paxsarah]

In any case - I'd address this concern via Michael Brown's office. I also didn't read the OPs wording as meaning one of his contracts was mistakenly labelled as developer vs resale - I simply read it as one of his contracts is developer - and the other four contracts are resale. Perhaps @northovr can confirm?

Sorry, he explained the mislabeling in a post on Facebook regarding the same issue.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Al my contracts are resale one is mislabeled as a developer too my detriment

Daniel

Then I would definitely recommend sending an explicit email to Michael Brown's office outlining that your contract has been mistakenly mislabeled and to have this issue corrected - as doing so will also remedy the downstream credits issue.

 

[northovr]

I

Then I would definitely recommend sending an explicit email to Michael Brown's office outlining that your contract has been mistakenly mislabeled and to have this issue corrected - as doing so will also remedy the downstream credits issue.

yea that would be a fix but let them figure it out What is Club pass where you can book world marks?

Daniel

 

[Richelle]

I

yea that would be a fix but let them figure it out What is Club pass where you can book world marks?

Daniel

Yes, you book some WorldMark through Club Pass. You cannot use your resale points to book Club Pass.

 

[paxsarah]

In any case - I'd address this concern via Michael Brown's office. I also didn't read the OPs wording as meaning one of his contracts was mistakenly labelled as developer vs resale - I simply read it as one of his contracts is developer - and the other four contracts are resale. Perhaps @northovr can confirm?

Welp, I've put my concerns out into the universe* (because while Daniel's issue can hopefully be fixed just by correctly coding his one contract, that doesn't solve the issue for other true hybrid non-VIPs who have lost HK or RT credits under this change) and now I can hopefully let it go.



*In this instance, the universe=Michael Brown's email address

 

[HitchHiker71]

Welp, I've put my concerns out into the universe* (because while Daniel's issue can hopefully be fixed just by correctly coding his one contract, that doesn't solve the issue for other true hybrid non-VIPs who have lost HK or RT credits under this change) and now I can hopefully let it go.



*In this instance, the universe=Michael Brown's email address

I will re-address this with Wyndham IT and see what we see.

 

[paxsarah]

This is just one of my pet peeves with Wyndham, because they coded this sloppily and now some owners are penalized a housekeeping credit for absolutely no reason. But anyway, it's still not been fixed based on this Facebook exchange. I know nobody but me cares. But at least y'all understand the concept.

 

[Sloane S]

I know nobody but me cares. But at least y'all understand the concept.

I care, it is not right that you are not getting what you are entitled to. It would be nice if the would spend some of those Program Fee dollars on fixing the system properly.