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PCC's and Closing Costs

dioxide45

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I see a lot of PCC that list in their adds on E-Bay very high closing costs. > $400. With the ability to get another company for less. Has anyone ever pushed the issue to use your own closing company? Something tells me one would have a lot of ammunition in this with their practices already in a grey area.
 
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icydog

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I see a lot of PCC that list in their adds very high closing costs. > $400. With the ability to get another company for less. Has anyone ever pushed the issue to use your own closing company? Something tells me one would have a lot of ammunition in this with their practices already in a grey area.
I know for sure that Sell My Timeshare Now, one of the biggest PCC, doesn't allow you to close with anyone but their closing company. They insist. So if you find a good deal you will still have to pay them to close it. Sometimes the deals are so good you willingly pay $450-500 to close them.
 

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If you wait until the Week doesn't sell once or twice, most will discount the closing costs by 50%, sometimes even 100% the second or third time they list it

George
 

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Many if not most of these companies are violating laws in many states that require a licensed attorney in the state where the timeshare is located to prepare the deed and sometimes other documents as well. I know that after an HOA president raised the issue with the NC State Bar because of the many defective deeds these out of state incompetent closing companies were recording, the State Bar issued cease and desist orders to many of the t/s closing companies warning them that they were in violation of the criminal law of the state in preparing such documents and they were subject to further action if they continued. If they failed to issue a cease and desist order, it was likely only because they did not have evidence of them recording deeds for NC timeshares.

If you are bidding on a week at an NC timeshare, I suggest you tell them, ''I don't know if you have the legal authority to make me use your closing company. I think I will inquire of the State Bar''. I bet they will backpeddle in a hurry.

If you are in another state, I would suggest also saying you will raise the question with the Unauthorized Practice of Law agency in the state where the timeshare is located, as well as the state Real Estate Commission. I do not know what other states have taken action or given warnings in this area. It may be that local authorities are unaware of the problem and your alerting them to it will help spur their action.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
U. S. Constitution -- Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3.

I know that after an HOA president raised the issue with the NC State Bar because of the many defective deeds these out of state incompetent closing companies were recording, the State Bar issued cease and desist orders to many of the t/s closing companies warning them that they were in violation of the criminal law of the state in preparing such documents and they were subject to further action if they continued.
Whoa -- sounds like an impediment to Interstate Commerce.

PCC seller is in (say) Texas, eBay in California, timeshare resort in North Carolina, buyer (say) in New Jersey, independent timeshare closing agency like Timeshare Transfer Inc. or Timeshare Closing Services Inc. in Florida -- that's Interstate Commerce any way you shake it.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

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How do you know the closing company is not using a state barred lawyer to prepare the documents?
 

dioxide45

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How do you know the closing company is not using a state barred lawyer to prepare the documents?
With the fees they are charging, they should be.
 

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Whoa -- sounds like an impediment to Interstate Commerce.

PCC seller is in (say) Texas, eBay in California, timeshare resort in North Carolina, buyer (say) in New Jersey, independent timeshare closing agency like Timeshare Transfer Inc. or Timeshare Closing Services Inc. in Florida -- that's Interstate Commerce any way you shake it.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

A timeshare is not capable of moving in interstate commerce. It is an interest in land and fixtures, which stay where they are within the borders of a state. The Commerce Clause does not impair the state's ability to regulate the sale of interests in land located in their state. The North Carolina Real Estate Commission has gone after t/s resellers located in other states who were had purchased large number of NC timeshare weeks wholesale and were reselling them from out of state but were not registered in North Carolina as a developer.
 
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How do you know the closing company is not using a state barred lawyer to prepare the documents?
Their is one relatively new out of state closing company that does. It is called PCS holdings. If someone is using an out of state closing company, they are the only ones I know of who are qualified.

All you have to do is look through the recorded deeds online from the others and look at who prepares them and then look to see if that person is licensed to practice law on the state bar website. A recent subterfuge by some of these companies is to list the seller or buyer as the deed preparer, which would be legal if it were true BUT it is not since the buyer is paying the closing company to prepare the deed. Also they are all clearly done with the same computer layout, so it is obviously the same preparer. This poor attempt at pulling the wool over the eyes of the authorities will probably just make them come down hard on these scoundrels.

The majority of deeds I have seen recorded by these out of state closing companies are defective, many totally void. All of the state bars, real estate commissions, etc. need to help make these people either follow the law with qualified deed preparers or go out of business.
 

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Re: changing closing companies.

I just assume the answer is no, and figure the closing costs into the acquisition price. If it's still a good deal, I'm willing to play along. Otherwise, there are always more bargains coming.
 

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The problem is more than just the inflated cost. I do not know about other states, but for North Carolina you are highly likely to get an invalid deed by using one of these one of state closing companies. I have seen more sales that involved at least one invalid deed either into or out of the PCC prepared by these out of state closing companies than I have seen valid deeds. I would not touch one with a ten foot pole.

Indeed a time of two where I saw them record void deeds for PCC transactions on nice summer weeks, I have been tempted to contact the original owners and offer them $100 for a quitclaim deed, knowing it would take precedence over the worthless crap recorded by these out of state closing companies.
 

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Sure, but on these purchases, I don't bother with title insurance either, because they are el-cheapo. In effect, I'm risking the purchase price on the chance that I'll still have use available to me---and, even if the deed is fouled, I'm still okay unless and until the resort tells me no. If for some reason someone snatches it out from under me, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I don't mind risking a few hundred dollars on this. If I were paying "real" money for it, I wouldn't be buying it from a PCC.
 

icydog

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One of the problems with this is the closing company doesn't necessarily check for liens against the property. If the person from whom you are buying the property actually owes money to the developer you can be saddled with those charges.

I do agree though, for the most part, when we are dealing in $100s and not $1000s, it makes little sense to make a mountain out of a molehill. I think if you get to use a timeshare a couple of times for $100 then it is a great deal.

HOWEVER, getting rid of said timeshare is NOT easy--- believe me!!! I am in that situation now. It cost me very little to acquire my RHCs but it has cost me 10 times more to get rid of them. I literally had to pay 1/2 of the costs to close and transfer them to get someone to take them off my hands, plus add the cost of ebay to sell them. We are talking $2,000 to get done with my three contracts.
 

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Carolinian

You would be correct, add South Carolina to that list of attorney only states as well as NY. In addition, you are correct in that many of the PCC Title Companies use the buyer or seller as the preparer in violation of many state laws on UPL. There are many states as the licensed title agent, I can not prepare deeds in and we contract licensed attornies to prepare our deeds. If the buyer is not getting title insurance that moves to 100% of the time we have bar licensed attorney(state of the property licensed) to prepare the deed for that state.

For all of you who thinks in it easy to get bar licensed, most states will require the attorney to sit for THEIR bar exam, so it is not like sending some money somewhere and presto your licensed in another state as a lawyer, and the lawyers I know say that 1 state bar eam was more than enough for them.

My attorney is licensed in 3, but that was because he lived in NC and did business in SC before moving to FL. So h had to take 3 bar eaxms, had no choice and once you get them, you never let the CLE's lapse....
 
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