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Owner Update WDW--HELP!!

mig1

Guest
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
49
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13
Location
Los Angeles
Resorts Owned
WKORV
DVC Animal Kingdom Lodge
Staying over the holiday weekend at Westin Desert Willow. As we haven't been at an Owner Update in awhile and with the forthcoming integration of Abound etc, we decided to waste 90 minutes and listen to the pitch.

We currently own at WKORV--have been owners for about 15 years. It's fully paid for etc etc. Our only financial responsibility is the yearly MF. I'm a firm believer that if something sounds like it's too good to be true, it usually is. I'm fairly well versed in the Vistana system and have been able to successfully navigate it to our needs. But after learning about the changes coming I wonder if this is too good to be true.

Admittedly in these presentations a lot of information is coming by you at a high rate of speed so I'm not sure I heard everything correctly but here is the topline: if we were to elect to deposit our ownership into this new "trust" that MVC has it gets us about 6,000 club points which is about 1000 shy of the Platinum level inside of Marriott. Of course all of these new "benefits" come with a cost. To buy an additional 1000 club points is about $15,000. The incentive is that they will "gift" me an additional 2,000 points that are good for an a year. (I may have heard that wrong but I'm assuming I could bank them; maybe not). 3,000 MVC points seem like they go a long way; potentially further than a similar threshold of StarOptions. Once inside the "trust" I could then opt in to put the small half, the large half or the entire 2 BD lockout into the trust and get the corresponding amount of club points to do whatever I wanted to do inside of Marriott. Outside of the obvious challenge/learning curve of managing 2 different systems it does seem like there are some benefits to the Marriott side of this. I was also led to believe that eventually the Vistana side would be converted to a similar structure although that seemed to be further down the road.

The benefit of platinum for life is kind of incremental for me....yes its nice but from time to time I hit it on my own anyway. I was told that the differences between Platinum, Titanium, and Chairmans are pretty slight and that the biggest leap is to Platinum from Gold or nothing. Obviously 15K is a good chunk of money, and of course the implied "prices are going to go up because we have 400,000 new owners from the Vistana system to integrate" was laid on the table. There are some things that seemed good--no conversion, banking fees, no name changes on the reservation fees, the ability to book at 13 months, perhaps some other perks like cruises, etc (although those never seem to be a particularly good rate of exchange).

So I'm throwing this out to the community here......for those of you who have placed your ownership into the trust....any regrets? Is there a downside to this (outside of the money). It seems to have a lot of versatility not to mention the ability to book into the Marriott system without any issues (which I can do now of course but this seems a bit less frictionless).

Please let me know your thoughts....we are onsite and have until we depart on Monday to make a final decision.
 
Staying over the holiday weekend at Westin Desert Willow. As we haven't been at an Owner Update in awhile and with the forthcoming integration of Abound etc, we decided to waste 90 minutes and listen to the pitch.

We currently own at WKORV--have been owners for about 15 years. It's fully paid for etc etc. Our only financial responsibility is the yearly MF. I'm a firm believer that if something sounds like it's too good to be true, it usually is. I'm fairly well versed in the Vistana system and have been able to successfully navigate it to our needs. But after learning about the changes coming I wonder if this is too good to be true.

Admittedly in these presentations a lot of information is coming by you at a high rate of speed so I'm not sure I heard everything correctly but here is the topline: if we were to elect to deposit our ownership into this new "trust" that MVC has it gets us about 6,000 club points which is about 1000 shy of the Platinum level inside of Marriott. Of course all of these new "benefits" come with a cost. To buy an additional 1000 club points is about $15,000. The incentive is that they will "gift" me an additional 2,000 points that are good for an a year. (I may have heard that wrong but I'm assuming I could bank them; maybe not). 3,000 MVC points seem like they go a long way; potentially further than a similar threshold of StarOptions. Once inside the "trust" I could then opt in to put the small half, the large half or the entire 2 BD lockout into the trust and get the corresponding amount of club points to do whatever I wanted to do inside of Marriott. Outside of the obvious challenge/learning curve of managing 2 different systems it does seem like there are some benefits to the Marriott side of this. I was also led to believe that eventually the Vistana side would be converted to a similar structure although that seemed to be further down the road.

The benefit of platinum for life is kind of incremental for me....yes its nice but from time to time I hit it on my own anyway. I was told that the differences between Platinum, Titanium, and Chairmans are pretty slight and that the biggest leap is to Platinum from Gold or nothing. Obviously 15K is a good chunk of money, and of course the implied "prices are going to go up because we have 400,000 new owners from the Vistana system to integrate" was laid on the table. There are some things that seemed good--no conversion, banking fees, no name changes on the reservation fees, the ability to book at 13 months, perhaps some other perks like cruises, etc (although those never seem to be a particularly good rate of exchange).

So I'm throwing this out to the community here......for those of you who have placed your ownership into the trust....any regrets? Is there a downside to this (outside of the money). It seems to have a lot of versatility not to mention the ability to book into the Marriott system without any issues (which I can do now of course but this seems a bit less frictionless).

Please let me know your thoughts....we are onsite and have until we depart on Monday to make a final decision.
Just so you know - you could buy 1000 resale points for around $7000 and that would also get you the same status.

How many units do you own. Did they confirm how many points you will actually get with your existing ownership?

Also - to elect points with your existing unit you will have to deposit the full VOI. You can’t just deposit one half of the lock off and use the other.

IMO, you are probably better off with using SO rather than points as you likely can’t book back into what you own with the points you would get.
 
Just so you know - you could buy 1000 resale points for around $7000 and that would also get you the same status.

How many units do you own. Did they confirm how many points you will actually get with your existing ownership?

Also - to elect points with your existing unit you will have to deposit the full VOI. You can’t just deposit one half of the lock off and use the other.

IMO, you are probably better off with using SO rather than points as you likely can’t book back into what you own with the points you would get.

We own 1 week 2 Bed lock off. I specifically asked about 1/2 the lockoff and they told me I would be able to do that. I also asked about resale and they told me that I wouldn't be able to combine my existing Vistana ownership with resale as MVC is not allowing resale interests toward these elite levels. It wouldn't surprise me if I was being lied to, but just telling what I was told. The only way to get the Platinum level would be to combine the 6000 points my 2 bedroom nets with that additional 1000 that I would have to buy for 15,000.
 
We own 1 week 2 Bed lock off. I specifically asked about 1/2 the lockoff and they told me I would be able to do that. I also asked about resale and they told me that I wouldn't be able to combine my existing Vistana ownership with resale as MVC is not allowing resale interests toward these elite levels. It wouldn't surprise me if I was being lied to, but just telling what I was told. The only way to get the Platinum level would be to combine the 6000 points my 2 bedroom nets with that additional 1000 that I would have to buy for 15,000.
They were likely telling the truth about buying a resale unit and having it count for elite. Going forward (after Aug 8) you would have to buy from the developer to have your units counted in VSN.

The following thread has more details and a spreadsheet showing values:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/vistana-to-abound-point-conversion-tracker.341717/

Note: edited to remove incorrect information. Sorry I thought you owned at WDW which has much lower conversion values. WKORV will be worth over 6000 points for a IV or OV 2BR
 
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We own 1 week 2 Bed lock off. I specifically asked about 1/2 the lockoff and they told me I would be able to do that. I also asked about resale and they told me that I wouldn't be able to combine my existing Vistana ownership with resale as MVC is not allowing resale interests toward these elite levels. It wouldn't surprise me if I was being lied to, but just telling what I was told. The only way to get the Platinum level would be to combine the 6000 points my 2 bedroom nets with that additional 1000 that I would have to buy for 15,000.

From the FAQ at https://www.vistana.com/help-center#/faqs

Capture.JPG
 
They were likely telling the truth about buying a resale unit and having it count for elite. Going forward (after Aug 8) you would have to buy from the developer to have your units counted in VSN.

I do think they were lying about more than just the half lockoff for points conversion detail. Assuming you own a platinum 2BR lockoff at WDW it would only convert to 3725 according to our crowdsourced reports from others who have seen their own owner profiles from sales. The following thread has more details and a spreadsheet showing values:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/vistana-to-abound-point-conversion-tracker.341717/

You likely would have to buy a lot more to hit Executive. I don’t see how 1000 points would get you there.

For purposes of clarity......I would have to elect to put the 2 bedroom lockoff into the trust and THEN buy the 1000 points which combined would exceed the amount needed to be Platinum for life. Is there a downside to this other than the extra money? Or am I simply better off just keeping things as they are?
 
For purposes of clarity......I would have to elect to put the 2 bedroom lockoff into the trust and THEN buy the 1000 points which combined would exceed the amount needed to be Platinum for life. Is there a downside to this other than the extra money? Or am I simply better off just keeping things as they are?
You would still own your week. Only if you wanted to trade using Abound points in a particular year would you have to convert your week to points. The following year you could use it for StarOptions or to use as a home resort booking.

It doesn’t change what you own. It would just have an extra 1000 points that you would theN have to book in Abound. Note that 1000 points won’t get you very far, so you would likely have to convert your week each year to points to get something useful.
 
The 2000 Point incentive they offered you are plus points. They are good for 2 years from the date of issue, no banking required or permitted. They cannot be transferred to another owner.
 
The 2000 Point incentive they offered you are plus points. They are good for 2 years from the date of issue, no banking required or permitted. They cannot be transferred to another owner.

I was made aware that I would then have the option to convert into Abound Points which seemed to have a lot of versatility and flexibility. I also understood that to get a usable amount of points in Marriott I'd have to convert my Star Options to accumulate enough points to really get something great. What was not made clear to me is if the 6000 points my WKORV is an annual valuation or only what they value them as an inducement to get me to spend an additional 15K. In looking over the point charts online it looks like my annual conversion may only be worth a percentage of the 6000. If that is the case then moving into the trust is a 15K move that doesn't necessarily net me what the presentation is promising.

Has anyone made this conversion into the trust and if so do you find it worth it? What am I missing? What are the reasons I shouldn't do it?
 
I was made aware that I would then have the option to convert into Abound Points which seemed to have a lot of versatility and flexibility. I also understood that to get a usable amount of points in Marriott I'd have to convert my Star Options to accumulate enough points to really get something great. What was not made clear to me is if the 6000 points my WKORV is an annual valuation or only what they value them as an inducement to get me to spend an additional 15K. In looking over the point charts online it looks like my annual conversion may only be worth a percentage of the 6000. If that is the case then moving into the trust is a 15K move that doesn't necessarily net me what the presentation is promising.

Has anyone made this conversion into the trust and if so do you find it worth it? What am I missing? What are the reasons I shouldn't do it?
The Abound program will not launch until the end of October so nobody can tell you about making a conversion yet. The value that they're giving you for your week is an annual election value into the Abound program. One of the users here started a spreadsheet that people have been putting the values into so you can look up your particular week on there and get an exact amount based upon what others have been told.

 
I was made aware that I would then have the option to convert into Abound Points which seemed to have a lot of versatility and flexibility. I also understood that to get a usable amount of points in Marriott I'd have to convert my Star Options to accumulate enough points to really get something great. What was not made clear to me is if the 6000 points my WKORV is an annual valuation or only what they value them as an inducement to get me to spend an additional 15K. In looking over the point charts online it looks like my annual conversion may only be worth a percentage of the 6000. If that is the case then moving into the trust is a 15K move that doesn't necessarily net me what the presentation is promising.

Has anyone made this conversion into the trust and if so do you find it worth it? What am I missing? What are the reasons I shouldn't do it?
Nobody has made the conversion from Vistana into the trust yet. That current target date for that capability is late October. If your current ownership already has Star Options, technically you won't have to "convert," you'll already be automatically enrolled in Abound and just elect annually whether to use your ownership in Vistana or as Abound Club Points. So the main question for you is whether or not you want that elite Owner Benefit Level in Abound and how much additional you'll actually need to purchase to get there.
 
The Abound program will not launch until the end of October so nobody can tell you about making a conversion yet. The value that they're giving you for your week is an annual election value into the Abound program. One of the users here started a spreadsheet that people have been putting the values into so you can look up your particular week on there and get an exact amount based upon what others have been told.



Thanks....this is helpful. It looks like my 148,100 WKORV are worth 6,200 club points. That being said......coupled with the 1000 points I'd have to purchase for a potential annual 6200 points plus the 1,000 & 2,000 bonus points as the incentive does this represent a good value? Frankly I don't know that I'd do this simply to get to Platinum as that doesn't seem all that compelling to me. Most of the time we're out and not in the room except for sleeping unless we are using one of the villas included in our ownership and I've been platinum before and it was nice but it was a coin toss as to if I'd "miss" it were it not offered. The only reason to do it is for the added flexibility and access into the Marriott side of things but for those who have a lot more experience on that side is this worth 15 grand?

After discovering TUG I vowed that I would never make another developer purchase......but this does seem to have some benefits. I realize it's my decision but in many instances the members here tell buyers to rescind or to NOT take a particular course of action. What would people recommend in this instance?
 
Not to discourage you from buying this time. It is a pretty standard offer, and should be there in future. If you are not in a rush (you can still wait for Abound to launch to see how it would work for your future travel plan), you might be able to sweeten up the deal by signing up an encore. Next time when you take the encore and then purchase from Marriott, you can get the cost of the encore as credit and can get other type of credit if you have some cash-paid stays at Marriott hotels around the time you take the encore tour.
 
For purposes of clarity......I would have to elect to put the 2 bedroom lockoff into the trust and THEN buy the 1000 points which combined would exceed the amount needed to be Platinum for life. Is there a downside to this other than the extra money? Or am I simply better off just keeping things as they are?
Any idea what the maintenance fees would be for those 1000 points?
 
I am going to go with wait.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The only way to get the Platinum level would be to combine the 6000 points my 2 bedroom nets with that additional 1000 that I would have to buy for 15,000.
Just to clarify the elite level aspect of your understanding…

“Platinum level” is a reference to your Marriott Bonvoy status which you will automatically inherit once your WKORV ownership is integrated into Abound.

I think sales was pushing you to purchase 1000 DP to get you to “Executive level”. At 6200 DP valuation, you’d be by default “Select level” with lesser benefits, namely not being able to book 1+ day stays at 13months.

You can reference the ownership level benefits here.
 
We had a bit of buyer’s remorse after purchasing 1750 points to get ourselves to Presidential status only to find out months later that we would’ve automatically become Presidential after merging our VSN ownership with MVC via Abound. This was all pre-Tug, so I can only say never again and try not to look back with too much regret.
 
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Keep in mind that if you buy 1000 points to get to Executive level now, the next time you are there they will try to seek you on an additional 3000 points to get you to Presidential (which comes with Titanium status).
 
For 2023 they are projected at $684 per the proposed budget.


I specifically asked about MF and how that would change what we pay now and was told it would be around 600 so this number isn't a surprise. Of course I was getting some pretty heavy pressure that "this deal wouldn't last" and that kind of tactic always makes me suspicious.

Also in reference to an earlier reply, I am aware that the Platinum level only applies to the Bonvoy part of this. As I mentioned before, though it would be nice to have, it's not a deal maker or breaker for me. Most times I'm not in the room a long time, and if I really need a later checkout I haven't had much of a problem getting it delayed until 2 pm. Its really about the integration into the Abound side and Club Points that has me interested. 15K is not a small amount of money but if this adds to the versatility then it's something to consider. I have a follow up meeting with them before we leave and I want to get clarity about the full VOI interest having to be transferred each year vs half. They told me that was possible but it seems from the community that is not the case.
 
I specifically asked about MF and how that would change what we pay now and was told it would be around 600 so this number isn't a surprise. Of course I was getting some pretty heavy pressure that "this deal wouldn't last" and that kind of tactic always makes me suspicious.

Also in reference to an earlier reply, I am aware that the Platinum level only applies to the Bonvoy part of this. As I mentioned before, though it would be nice to have, it's not a deal maker or breaker for me. Most times I'm not in the room a long time, and if I really need a later checkout I haven't had much of a problem getting it delayed until 2 pm. Its really about the integration into the Abound side and Club Points that has me interested. 15K is not a small amount of money but if this adds to the versatility then it's something to consider. I have a follow up meeting with them before we leave and I want to get clarity about the full VOI interest having to be transferred each year vs half. They told me that was possible but it seems from the community that is not the case.
The other thing to think about is what does 1000 club points get you if you do not convert your WKORV ownership to club points. I haven’t studied the charts but 1000 points may not go very far. You should think about what you would do with those club points if you do not convert your WKORV week.
 
Keep in mind that if you have an extra $15k to spend you could easily buy 2000 resale Abound points which would be treated the same and count for status. They run roughly $7/point including the MVC junk fee.
 
Keep in mind that if you have an extra $15k to spend you could easily buy 2000 resale Abound points which would be treated the same and count for status. They run roughly $7/point including the MVC junk fee.

I understand that. I guess the calculus here is does it make sense or is there value in putting the VOI in the trust for the added flexibility and option of being able to exchange it for club points when I didn't want to stay within the VSN properties. Or am I better off just waiting for this program to launch and to get all of the bugs worked out.

FWIW I asked them what was going to happen when they went to integrate all of the Hyatt properties later next year--was there going to be the same "opportunity" once again for all of the Hyatt Vacation owners?
 
Assuming you have a developer purchased WKORV (or pre-8/9 resale it seems), you’ll have the option of “electing your eligible VOI(s) to receive Club Points” on an annual basis (once Abound goes live) without having to make the 1000 additional points purchase.
So that’s 6200 Abounds points you’ll get to play with which should give you more than enough vacation flexibility without having to shell out the extra $15k. It’s as simple as that, unless I’m missing something here.

IMHO, the only real value-added benefit you would gain by purchasing 1000 Club Points (which would put you at Executive Status in the Abound program) is the flexibility of booking just 1-6 days at the 13 month reservation window (plus additional benefits which you may or may not use), but for me personally that would not be worth the extra $15k because I always book stays of 7+ days at a resort. But every traveler is different so it’s a personal decision.

I would recommend that you study that ownership level benefit chart and compare the benefits of a Select owner vs. Executive owner to really understand how you might use your Abound points when and if you elect that option each year to determine whether adding those extra points is worthwhile. I‘m repeating advice given by other tuggers but trying to say it my way—- the long-winded way.:LOL:
 
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Keep in mind that if you buy 1000 points to get to Executive level now, the next time you are there they will try to seek you on an additional 3000 points to get you to Presidential (which comes with Titanium status).
Can you point me to how/where this is done on the resale market?

I understand that Vistana owners won't be able to see availability of MVC properties unless the have some club points. So either you convert a contract by October 31st of the prior year and have points on hand that way, or you are a 'hybrid' owner who has contracts in each system.

We are owners in Vistana, get 'chairman' status with about 16,000 points but want to see what is available in MVC before converting a contract (or contracts) to book an MVC property.

Long explanation for a 'why' but 7K is worth being able to look at redemption rates and inventory before converting contracts for a year rather than make the 'blind conversion' that year.
 
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