Owner "update" experience in Orlando/GV

[tubelaw]

We attended an "update" at Grand Vista today for a $325 gift card and there are some new twists to the lies. The new tactic, kind of same as the old: under the new ownership they are rolling out a "new" system and the points we own with our enrolled weeks (one internally bought and one external) would see different results on searches vs. our trust points. While they refrained from using the old term of "buckets", they insisted we would not see the same availability with these points. When I indicated that I never had an issue choosing which points to use toward a reservation, we were told it's because we are only seeing certain units and missing out on others by not running an advanced search and deselecting our enrolled points. They also repeated what we have been told in the past, that any enrolled weeks being exchanged for points can be discontinued at any time by them per the contract. I have asked several times to be shown that language and they have never come up with it. Then he started touting about capping our maintenance fee increases by "trading" in our weeks for points straight up. He kept mentioning that under the new system Marriott is taking out an insurance policy that will cover any large reserve charges. Made it sound like they are opening up a new trust and only newly purchased points would qualify. Even went so far as to tell us that having 2 separate deeds for our 2 points purchases is limiting our ability to see available dates and he would do us a favor and incorporate those points into the same deed if we trade in our weeks. We declined but he offered to keep this offer open for 15 months and left to input it into the system but returned soon thereafter and said we were not eligible because it was already offered to us in the past. The manager then comes in and says he can lower the price, reduce the number of new points in the purchase (enough to get us to the next level of Presidential) and would grandfather our weeks into the new system to protect them from the large reserve increases as it will now be protected by the insurance. At this point we were just so confused with the lies swirling we said we need to leave.

One other interesting tidbit, when we got into how the other uses of DC points is such a poor value, he said under the new system, for owners at Chairman and higher, they will give have a value of $2 per point when using DC points toward cruises, home rentals and tours. Yeah, so that Collette tour that you can pay $7,000 up front with Collette is only going to cost 3500 points when it currently costs 16,000 points??? I laughed and said I will believe it when I see it. I am curious to see if any others have gotten these threads of lies as there were lots of new twists today.

 

[davidvel]

As a wise man recently said, these things cannot be sold telling the truth.

 

[NJWolfpacker]

I was confused with the numbers the sales guy was throwing out during my update in Hilton Head over the summer. Definitely seems like an intentional strategy used as some people will just go along and accept things said as gospel and go along for the buying ride.

 

[Hindsite]

As a wise man recently said, these things cannot be sold telling the truth.

the shame is they certainly used to be able to sell themselves. I suspect they still could but the salespeople are so lazy that they don't know how to pitch the actual value proposition as opposed to making rubbish up.

 

[jp10558]

the shame is they certainly used to be able to sell themselves. I suspect they still could but the salespeople are so lazy that they don't know how to pitch the actual value proposition as opposed to making rubbish up.

I'm really not sure that any retail purchase has a value proposition. Especially if you consider the investment potential of $25k+ of the upfront purchase...

 

[Wanderlustgrl]

We went a couple of weeks ago and got a very similar pitch that because we had different pt contracts we weren’t seeing inventory and that each contract would have an assessment and we should have gotten an email. We had already heard this earlier in the year at ocean pt and knew from here this was not true. @Smiley2me also shared a similar experience. Once my husband asked for it in writing and they found out we were on tug. The manager came out and ensured us we were actually already in the new program and grandfathered in and we could go. No encore out in about 25 min.

 

[Hindsite]

I'm really not sure that any retail purchase has a value proposition. Especially if you consider the investment potential of $25k+ of the upfront purchase...

MVC are selling weeks and points/weeks bundles that get very close to the resale cost of Club points, sometimes lower. If you want to enroll the right ownership, you can also retro it or buy the right week direct and it is worth it for those that want to do that.

Back when resorts were still in construction and there was no viable resale market and info via the internet was sparse and not everyone had confidence in it, the resorts did sell themselves and generated good value relative to other vacation lodging reservation methods.

 

[jp10558]

MVC are selling weeks and points/weeks bundles that get very close to the resale cost of Club points, sometimes lower. If you want to enroll the right ownership, you can also retro it or buy the right week direct and it is worth it for those that want to do that.

Back when resorts were still in construction and there was no viable resale market and info via the internet was sparse and not everyone had confidence in it, the resorts did sell themselves and generated good value relative to other vacation lodging reservation methods.

I just mean today compared to VRBO or Hotels, when you're counting the likely return from an index fund on $25k+ vs the different in rental rates vs MFs for most similar locations the math doesn't work out. I know back in the day it could be harder but while I can justify small resale purchase amounts, anything over $5k is pretty hard to do so when I've run it in the past.

It's not impossible, if you can get low MFs and trade to very high cost weeks like Grand Chateau to Hawaii beachfront or Atlantis or the like, but for most other locations it's at best close and usually a losing proposition.

 

[davidvel]

I just mean today compared to VRBO or Hotels, when you're counting the likely return from an index fund on $25k+ vs the different in rental rates vs MFs for most similar locations the math doesn't work out. I know back in the day it could be harder but while I can justify small resale purchase amounts, anything over $5k is pretty hard to do so when I've run it in the past.

It's not impossible, if you can get low MFs and trade to very high cost weeks like Grand Chateau to Hawaii beachfront or Atlantis or the like, but for most other locations it's at best close and usually a losing proposition.

Even not counting the investment value it rarely works out for 7 day stays not at some special unicorn week.

 

[jp10558]

Even not counting the investment value it rarely works out for 7 day stays not at some special unicorn week.

Yea, I think the only way it usually works out is doing the lock off and trading for 2 weeks via II for MVC anyway. Their MFs are pretty high. My HGVC Seaworld week has a similar problem, except that I can usually sqeeze a week and a half out of saving/borrowing points, or I hit a huge point discount like I did to stay at Seaworld this year in September. Really the Aspire card stacking for $400 off via the MF discounts is the saving grace for now - that and my dislike of getting rid of stuff .

 

[Big Matt]

If you know how to play the game (lock offs, Sun-Th reservations, edges of high season, etc.) you can get a lot of value for you annual maintenance fees. Most people that own timeshares don't try hard enough to get that value or they don't buy the right things to begin with. Then the buyers remorse sets in.

 

[rthib]

We got the preferred check-in treatment, with the special room at GV. Knew what it was but we were there about a half hour before 4 so assumed we would have to wait anyway and the lounge is nicer place to wait.
So our helpful agent to check us in also offered us the special opportunity for a owners update. Said because of the new CEO they were making lots of changes that were all about oweners.
The interesting things mentioned to get us to do the tour -
We could find out about the three new Marriott's that were going to definitely open in Second half of 2027, Nashville, Savannah and Charlotte.
And that Hyatt properties being brought in the program.
I know folks had heard those during the meeting, but first time had heard them from the folks booking the tour.
The other thing he talked about was how great it was now that we could use points for maintenance fees.

 

[NJWolfpacker]

Charlotte???

That’s a new one to me. Any other details about it?

 

[Fasttr]

Charlotte???

That’s a new one to me. Any other details about it?

I'm assuming that is a typo....and supposed to be Charleston.

 

[dougp26364]

We got the preferred check-in treatment, with the special room at GV. Knew what it was but we were there about a half hour before 4 so assumed we would have to wait anyway and the lounge is nicer place to wait.
So our helpful agent to check us in also offered us the special opportunity for a owners update. Said because of the new CEO they were making lots of changes that were all about oweners.
The interesting things mentioned to get us to do the tour -
We could find out about the three new Marriott's that were going to definitely open in Second half of 2027, Nashville, Savannah and Charlotte.
And that Hyatt properties being brought in the program.
I know folks had heard those during the meeting, but first time had heard them from the folks booking the tour.
The other thing he talked about was how great it was now that we could use points for maintenance fees.

By now you’d think they’d stop talking about Hyatt, but I suppose they’ll use any hook they think will real you in.

Honestly, I’d love to see them bring Hyatt into the program. I’d love to have a shot at reserving the Hyatt in Sedona. However I’ve given up on it and as soon as sales starts down that road, I stop listening.

 

[Hindsite]

I’d love to have a shot at reserving the Hyatt in Sedona. However I’ve given up on it and as soon as sales starts down that road, I stop listening.

Its not a hard exchange via II, have you tried that?

 

[gravityrules]

Has Marriott abandoned offering the sales pitch to non-owner II exchangers?

Nothing was said to us at either MGV or at MM in Park City ... not that I'm complaining! Just surprised they didn't ask. These were our first stays at Marriott timeshares.

 

[DRH90277]

Please forgive a little accounting look at the new Credit Card fee imposition on Maintenance Fees --

First - One of the new owner benefits for the top two levels is a "Maintenance Fee (MF) Installment Payment Plan." Perhaps, the current maintenance fee plan should be changed to quarterly, pay by credit card allowed or some less impactful arrangement. I suspect most maintenance fees are due at the end of the calendar year, you know Christmas Gift time. In fact, Scrooge may have invented this timing.

Second - The credit card charge should be considered a bargain to the individual resort properties considering the interest they earn on the aggregated millions in cash collected in advance of the expenses of the following year. Take Newport Coast Villas as an example, 2026 Proposed Budget shows $52,760,000 in MF's with $655,000 in Credit Card Fees, that's 1.2% in credit card fees. On the income side, there is $790,000 in Bank/Investment Interest and Maintenance Fee Interest Income.

While MVC and the BOD's are patting themselves on the back, I hope they realize that there are other ways to reduce expenses and this "easy target credit card fee thing" is a bit of a mirage.

I apologize for not knowing where to put these thoughts as they probably belong somewhere else in the forums.

 

[dougp26364]

Its not a hard exchange via II, have you tried that?

I’ve thought about it a couple of times. We typically prefer to reserve using our points and skip the exchange fee.

 

[zentraveler]

We are going to Sedona Hyatt Pinion Pointe later this month with a trade through II. Got a 2 bdrm for a 1 bdrm deposit of FSA.

 

[MikeM132]

the shame is they certainly used to be able to sell themselves. I suspect they still could but the salespeople are so lazy that they don't know how to pitch the actual value proposition as opposed to making rubbish up.

I agree, but as a sales guy myself they made it pretty hard to sell these days. You don't get a week vacation anymore (which most people still seem to want), you don't get any home priority, you don't even get a villa necessarily. They used to tell you once you stay in a villa resort you'll never want a hotel room again. Now a lot of the new properties are hotel rooms (some are fixed up, but they're still not a traditional villa). Sales people have to try to sell what is available to sell. Marriott has flipped it totally around and hotel=good now, home resort preference and a full week is now less desirable that to total flexibility. I think in years past they could make a valid argument that you always got a good vacation in a great place and for guys like me it forced you to go someplace. You also did actually have some flexibility. Now selling this stuff is a little like selling crypto currency.

 

[Hindsite]

I agree, but as a sales guy myself they made it pretty hard to sell these days. You don't get a week vacation anymore (which most people still seem to want), you don't get any home priority, you don't even get a villa necessarily. They used to tell you once you stay in a villa resort you'll never want a hotel room again. Now a lot of the new properties are hotel rooms (some are fixed up, but they're still not a traditional villa). Sales people have to try to sell what is available to sell. Marriott has flipped it totally around and hotel=good now, home resort preference and a full week is now less desirable that to total flexibility. I think in years past they could make a valid argument that you always got a good vacation in a great place and for guys like me it forced you to go someplace. You also did actually have some flexibility. Now selling this stuff is a little like selling crypto currency.

That's all just more lazyness. Other than the Pulse properties there aren't many properties that are all hotel room style, even the MVC Studios of lock-offs are better than average hotel rooms, though not better than some. They can, and do, sell weeks still but chase the higher commission that sales get from selling overpriced points. Even when they are selling weeks, the pitch is all about points usage and nothing about the intrinsic flexibility that enrolled weeks have. The bundle approach, which they use quite sparsely is also a big thing they are missing where you can blend the use of weeks and points and either extend a stay at one resort and potentially reduce flight costs.

The resort experience is consistently good to excellent, but that never features in the sales pitch. The economics, even for points only is there, but needs to match the usage of owners to be compelling, so sales need to actually take the time to understand and present back to people in a focussed way, which they don't bother with.

Its way too easy to counter every angle sales take if you actually understand how the system works, and yet we go back month after month for great vacations and they haven't worked out why......

 

[jellen613#]

We had our "owner update" at HHI yesterday. The salesman is new to MVC, however he stated he worked closely with Mike Flaskey at Diamond Resorts, as well working at Bluegreen. When I mentioned some owners have strong opinions about Mike Flaskey, he said he was aware of what people said about Flaskey.

Like previous sales people, he commented on my knowledge of the program. He said his style was not to scare people with the threat of special assessments. He asked if other sales people had offered us equity for our legacy week to get us to buy up to Executive, which they have. In 2019, we briefly took this deal, then rescinded.

We talked about the new levels briefly, the goal with all of the presentations we have been to is to get us up to executive. With the improvement in the Select benefits, especially on being able to book 3+ nights with points earlier, I am pleased with the Select benefit adjustments.

We are winding down any great expenditures as we move towards retirement, and it typically is just the 2 of us on vacation, so we remain uninterested in further MVC purchases (even on a resale market).

He did go over the Flex Point system with us as well, no one had ever reviewed that with us. The one selling point that was interesting was the ability to book directly through II. Not interesting enough to pay 31K and add to our annual MF cost.

He has been at the HHI location about a month or two. He said towards the end of the presentation we were the first presentation since he arrived at HHI that didn't end in a sale. We got $225 experience dollars, along w/ a preferred check lounge which we could access for snacks/coffee, beer, sodas, water, etc. We had 2 lovely dinners out on Marriott's dime, which was the reason we agreed to the presentation in the first place.

 

[dioxide45]

He has been at the HHI location about a month or two. He said towards the end of the presentation we were the first presentation since he arrived at HHI that didn't end in a sale.

He has a nearly 100% close rate? Somehow I find that hard to beleive.

 

[jellen613#]

He has a nearly 100% close rate? Somehow I find that hard to beleive.

I agree....just thought it was an interesting, strange thing to say.