Owner update at WDW

[daviator]

I am finishing a long stay at WDW, the last few days of which were an Encore Package, so today was my required owner update/sales presentation.

The sales people (both the main sales guy and the "manager") were adamant that 95% of the Marriott and unsold Vistana inventory is now in the "Marriott Trust" which would only be accessible to those who owned trust points directly. The only inventory that would be in Abound would be dribs and drabs and weeks that people elected to put there. They wanted to sell me 1,000 "trust points", otherwise my access in the future to any resorts other than those I own directly was going to be close to zero.

I didn't buy, of course, except that I bought another Encore package (I like those.). But this is not the way I understand Abound to work. I am under the impression that the pool of inventory in Abound is the entirety of the "trust" (all the Destination Points inventory is now Abound inventory) plus whatever Vistana VOIs have been dumped into it, plus whatever inventory is elected by owners each year to Abound. I told them this and they swore that I was wrong, that unless I bought some native trust points, I'd be locked out from 95% of the inventory.

I said I would wait and see how things played out once Abound was actually available to Vistana owners. And I guess by buying another Encore package I preserved my right to buy 1,000 DPs at the quoted terms for another year, so it's cheap insurance in the case that what they told me has any validity (I don't think it does.)

He did show me a preview of the new MVC web site which he said they were testing. It was super speedy and you could search for any property and see a calendar with availability and cost (in club points) shown for every date, it was pretty slick. Supposedly it was live inventory and that is what it appeared to be.

Oh, he also said that I was still only 4-star elite on the Vistana side (I used to be 4SE, but it changed recently to 5SE) and that I'd only be mapped to Presidential in Abound unless I bought the points. I don't think that's true either, my ownership maps to something like 17,600 Abound points and I think that makes me Chairman. My understanding is that the new status will apply whether I elect into Abound or not, but they said no.

So, typical sales shenanigans I think...

 

[grrrah]

typical sales shenanigans...

Fixed.

The main thing I am hoping for is that we can see if something is available and get an idea of availability before we enroll our VOI. Would be even better if we could make a reservation and enroll the VOI in one process but not holding my breath for that.

 

[vacationtime1]

What amazes me is how the salespeople can flat out lie even when confronted with the truth (the series of lies about how buying 1000 points will "supercharge" points from elected weeks).

And what amazes me further is that the "manager" participated in those lies. Which makes management complicit in presenting false facts to potential customers.

 

[daviator]

Something kind of unrelated: I noticed today that when you go to Vistana.com, it now takes you directly to the login page. In other words, Vistana as a brand is dead to non-owners. The brand only exists for those who already own within it. There is NO landing page any more.

 

[Eric B]

I wasn't getting the landing page earlier today but am now.

 

[daviator]

I wasn't getting the landing page earlier today but am now.

Oh I'm seeing it now too. Weird.

One might think that since they are only selling MVC points now, the Vistana brand might kind of go away. After all, AFAIK you can't buy "Vistana" any more. But who knows?

Interestingly, by removing the ability to buy into Vistana, they are kind of giving up on the part of the market which bought Vistana because the properties (especially the Westin properties) were seen as superior to the Marriott properties. That's probably because MVC will never think of the Vistana properties as being better (but I think they are.)

 

[Eric B]

Oh I'm seeing it now too. Weird.

One might think that since they are only selling MVC points now, the Vistana brand might kind of go away. After all, AFAIK you can't buy "Vistana" any more. But who knows?

Interestingly, by removing the ability to buy into Vistana, they are kind of giving up on the part of the market which bought Vistana because the properties (especially the Westin properties) were seen as superior to the Marriott properties. That's probably because MVC will never think of the Vistana properties as being better (but I think they are.)

Not sure you can’t buy any more — I’ve got a price fix on Aventuras through an Encore package good for about 8 more months. If I wind up Presidential just under Chairman’s Club I might use it, though the incremental benefits aren’t much. It would be pretty cheap Abound points in any case. Not buying anything until the system comes out officially, of course.

 

[daviator]

Not sure you can’t buy any more — I’ve got a price fix on Aventuras through an Encore package good for about 8 more months. If I wind up Presidential just under Chairman’s Club I might use it, though the incremental benefits aren’t much. It would be pretty cheap Abound points in any case. Not buying anything until the system comes out officially, of course.

Oh that's true. And as I found out today, you can apparently buy back-to-back Encore packages and further extend the applicability of that deal, or at least that's what I just did at WDW.

To the extent the inventory exists and hasn't been moved into "the Marriott trust", I presume they will continue to have the ability to sell legacy ownerships if they choose to. Perhaps foreclosures/takebacks and ROFR ownerships.

 

[HankW]

What amazes me is how the salespeople can flat out lie even when confronted with the truth (the series of lies about how buying 1000 points will "supercharge" points from elected weeks).

And what amazes me further is that the "manager" participated in those lies. Which makes management complicit in presenting false facts to potential customers.

Agree, he also has the information on your 5SE translating to Chairman with no additional purchase. As we all know, he can print out this information and give it to you. I got it on my last presentation, not sure why he is saying that you need to make a purchase, weird.

 

[kozykritter]

I am finishing a long stay at WDW, the last few days of which were an Encore Package, so today was my required owner update/sales presentation.

The sales people (both the main sales guy and the "manager") were adamant that 95% of the Marriott and unsold Vistana inventory is now in the "Marriott Trust" which would only be accessible to those who owned trust points directly. The only inventory that would be in Abound would be dribs and drabs and weeks that people elected to put there. They wanted to sell me 1,000 "trust points", otherwise my access in the future to any resorts other than those I own directly was going to be close to zero.

I didn't buy, of course, except that I bought another Encore package (I like those.). But this is not the way I understand Abound to work. I am under the impression that the pool of inventory in Abound is the entirety of the "trust" (all the Destination Points inventory is now Abound inventory) plus whatever Vistana VOIs have been dumped into it, plus whatever inventory is elected by owners each year to Abound. I told them this and they swore that I was wrong, that unless I bought some native trust points, I'd be locked out from 95% of the inventory.

I said I would wait and see how things played out once Abound was actually available to Vistana owners. And I guess by buying another Encore package I preserved my right to buy 1,000 DPs at the quoted terms for another year, so it's cheap insurance in the case that what they told me has any validity (I don't think it does.)

He did show me a preview of the new MVC web site which he said they were testing. It was super speedy and you could search for any property and see a calendar with availability and cost (in club points) shown for every date, it was pretty slick. Supposedly it was live inventory and that is what it appeared to be.

Oh, he also said that I was still only 4-star elite on the Vistana side (I used to be 4SE, but it changed recently to 5SE) and that I'd only be mapped to Presidential in Abound unless I bought the points. I don't think that's true either, my ownership maps to something like 17,600 Abound points and I think that makes me Chairman. My understanding is that the new status will apply whether I elect into Abound or not, but they said no.

So, typical sales shenanigans I think...

What the salesperson told you about Abound inventory is technically true. By its terms it is limited to the inventory given up when a Marriott enrolled weeks owner or a Vistana owner elects Club Points. The trust inventory is a separate pool. However since the trust was formed Marriott has always used its internal exchange company to allow elected points to access most of the trust inventory. This internal exchange company is what was renamed Abound. So unless Marriott somehow puts that wall back up at some point, you will continue to have access to trust inventory as an internal exchange.

 

[daviator]

What the salesperson told you about Abound inventory is technically true. By its terms it is limited to the inventory given up when a Marriott enrolled weeks owner or a Vistana owner elects Club Points. The trust inventory is a separate pool. However since the trust was formed Marriott has always used its internal exchange company to allow elected points to access most of the trust inventory. This internal exchange company is what was renamed Abound. So unless Marriott somehow puts that wall back up at some point, you will continue to have access to trust inventory as an internal exchange.

Appreciate that clarification. So this might be one of those fine lines that sales walks, where they present something that’s based in fact but they intentionally misinterpret or misstate the actual impact in order to motivate purchases. It’s deceptive and it seems unlikely that MVC is going to start drawing a distinction between the two pools.

 

[YYJMSP]

Agree, he also has the information on your 5SE translating to Chairman with no additional purchase. As we all know, he can print out this information and give it to you. I got it on my last presentation, not sure why he is saying that you need to make a purchase, weird.

Just look on the MF bills that are coming out right now -- the new fee (including the name of the Abound level) is on your first purchased VOI. it's pretty clear what they've mapped you to, since it's already on the bill, obviously not requiring any further purchase...

 

[lotus921v]

Oh that's true. And as I found out today, you can apparently buy back-to-back Encore packages and further extend the applicability of that deal, or at least that's what I just did at WDW.

To the extent the inventory exists and hasn't been moved into "the Marriott trust", I presume they will continue to have the ability to sell legacy ownerships if they choose to. Perhaps foreclosures/takebacks and ROFR ownerships.

What’s an encore package?

 

[JimT]

Just look on the MF bills that are coming out right now -- the new fee (including the name of the Abound level) is on your first purchased VOI. it's pretty clear what they've mapped you to, since it's already on the bill, obviously not requiring any further purchase...

We are both MVC Trust Points and Vistana owners. Our "Membership Fee" appeared on the MVC Trust Maintenance statement and there was no VSN Membership Fee on our Vistana statement. Guess that means our accounts are connected.

As information here is the note from the Vistana maintenance fee bill concerning opting out:

The VSN Membership Fee has been changed and now also includes (i) additional amounts charged for access to an additional exchange opportunity ...... and (ii) a consolidated fee that replaces the individual separate transaction fees that were previously billed to Owners on an a la carte basis (e.g., banking points, reservation cancellations, conversion to Marriott Bonvoy points, etc.). To opt out of receiving the additional exchange opportunity and consolidated fee that replaces the separate transaction fees previously billed a la carte, please contact Owner Services at 888-WV-OWNER (888-986-9637) and opt out by paying the 2023 Club Dues amount of either $170.50 (for single-week Owners) or $236.50 (for multi-week Owners). If you opt out, please note that you will be responsible for paying separate transaction fees, will not receive the additional exchange opportunity and ... the event you opt out and want to later take advantage of the consolidated VSN Membership Fee for 2024 or subsequent years, you will also need to pay an enrollment fee, which is currently $595 but is subject to change from time to time.

 

[tperez]

I am finishing a long stay at WDW, the last few days of which were an Encore Package, so today was my required owner update/sales presentation.

The sales people (both the main sales guy and the "manager") were adamant that 95% of the Marriott and unsold Vistana inventory is now in the "Marriott Trust" which would only be accessible to those who owned trust points directly.

What amazes me is how the salespeople can flat out lie even when confronted with the truth (the series of lies about how buying 1000 points will "supercharge" points from elected weeks).

We're Vistana owners but also have owned a week at Marriott Vacation Club's Ko'olina for years. The sales tactics about needing to buy trust points to access inventory and "supercharging" points from elected weeks have been used by MVC salespeople since the whole destination points program was created years ago. I remember one sales person actually using the term "supercharging" when he was trying to convince us, as legacy owners, to purchase points. Of course he didn't explain what that meant. I guess they are starting to use those tactics with Vistana owners now. FWIW we've never purchased any destinations points and have never had any issues accessing inventory.

 

[daviator]

What’s an encore package?

An Encore Package is something they often offer to sales presentation attendees who do not purchase anything else at the presentation. They have various options, but it usually includes a 4-night stay which you must return to use (various villa types may be available) at an attractive price, along with a big chunk of Bonvoy points or other incentives. When you come back to the property to use the Encore stay–which generally must occur within 15 months or so– you *must* attend another sales presentation. The Encore Package preserves whatever deal you were offered at the first presentation, so even if prices have gone up in the ensuing period, you can still take advantage of whatever deal you were offered originally. If you buy something at the second presentation, they will deduct the cost of the Encore Package from the purchase price of whatever you buy, making it essentially free.

For example, I was offered a 4-night stay in a Premium 1BR (the larger side of the lockoff) plus 50,000 Bonvoy points for $695 + a $99 fee. They collect the $99 and then charge you $69.50/month for 10 months. So I'm paying $200/night (not bad) plus getting 50K Bonvoy points (worth roughly $420) which I think is a pretty good deal. In exchange, they get 90 minutes of my time to try to sell me something more. I could have elected a package with 100,000 Bonvoy points for $995, which just on the math might be an even better deal. Or I could have chosen a package with the smaller 1 BR unit for a little less money.

I often add the Encore stay onto the beginning or end of an ownership stay, so it allows me to stay a few more days. One thing worth noting is that they do charge you $20/night for parking while you are on the Encore stay.

 

[dsmrp]

I am finishing a long stay at WDW, the last few days of which were an Encore Package, so today was my required owner update/sales presentation.

The sales people (both the main sales guy and the "manager") were adamant that 95% of the Marriott and unsold Vistana inventory is now in the "Marriott Trust" which would only be accessible to those who owned trust points directly. The only inventory that would be in Abound would be dribs and drabs and weeks that people elected to put there. They wanted to sell me 1,000 "trust points", otherwise my access in the future to any resorts other than those I own directly was going to be close to zero.

I didn't buy, of course, except that I bought another Encore package (I like those.). But this is not the way I understand Abound to work. I am under the impression that the pool of inventory in Abound is the entirety of the "trust" (all the Destination Points inventory is now Abound inventory) plus whatever Vistana VOIs have been dumped into it, plus whatever inventory is elected by owners each year to Abound. I told them this and they swore that I was wrong, that unless I bought some native trust points, I'd be locked out from 95% of the inventory.

I said I would wait and see how things played out once Abound was actually available to Vistana owners. And I guess by buying another Encore package I preserved my right to buy 1,000 DPs at the quoted terms for another year, so it's cheap insurance in the case that what they told me has any validity (I don't think it does.)

He did show me a preview of the new MVC web site which he said they were testing. It was super speedy and you could search for any property and see a calendar with availability and cost (in club points) shown for every date, it was pretty slick. Supposedly it was live inventory and that is what it appeared to be.

Oh, he also said that I was still only 4-star elite on the Vistana side (I used to be 4SE, but it changed recently to 5SE) and that I'd only be mapped to Presidential in Abound unless I bought the points. I don't think that's true either, my ownership maps to something like 17,600 Abound points and I think that makes me Chairman. My understanding is that the new status will apply whether I elect into Abound or not, but they said no.

So, typical sales shenanigans I think...

Yup. We attended a WDW presentation in September and were told similar, except that they got our Abound status level right.

Selling small points packages to trust/new club is the same tactic Hyatt/HRC has been using for a few years with their Portfolio program . Note that Marriott acquired HRC before they acquired Vistana. You can't do much with a small number of points by themselves, so that forces or pushes weeks owners to opt to convert their weeks from legacy system to new points system, in this case Abound. Getting HRC owners to move to portfolio program is/was a problem for mgmt, since they had a lot of mudweeks in their trust.

Anyway when I mentioned our Hyatt sales presentation and the most of the above to our Vistana sales person and her ( Marriott) manager, there was a small gasp of recognition or comprehension perhaps, on our salesperson's face. The manager didn't miss a beat and maintained a poker face.
We didn't buy , tho' the so called discount looked okay. We did get the 4 nite $695 Encore pkg to come back in 24 months. But Pt price would only hold for 18 mo.

 

[daviator]

Yup. We attended a WDW presentation in September and were told similar, except that they got our Abound status level right.

Selling small points packages to trust/new club is the same tactic Hyatt/HRC has been using for a few years with their Portfolio program . Note that Marriott acquired HRC before they acquired Vistana. You can't do much with a small number of points by themselves, so that forces or pushes weeks owners to opt to convert their weeks from legacy system to new points system, in this case Abound. Getting HRC owners to move to portfolio program is/was a problem for mgmt, since they had a lot of mudweeks in their trust.

Anyway when I mentioned our Hyatt sales presentation and the most of the above to our Vistana sales person and her ( Marriott) manager, there was a small gasp of recognition or comprehension perhaps, on our salesperson's face. The manager didn't miss a beat and maintained a poker face.
We didn't buy , tho' the so called discount looked okay. We did get the 4 nite $695 Encore pkg to come back in 24 months. But Pt price would only hold for 18 mo.

Oh I didn’t even think about the “why do they want to sell me a measly 1,000 points?” Of course, those points will be essentially useless unless I elect my existing ownerships into Abound. They would have been happy to take my $15,000 in exchange for points which would mainly benefit them and not me! But I’ll bet their tactics are successful in many cases.

 

[timsi]

The sales people (both the main sales guy and the "manager") were adamant that 95% of the Marriott and unsold Vistana inventory is now in the "Marriott Trust"

Not sure this is accurate.

 

[daviator]

Not sure this is accurate.

It might not be. Half of what I was told wasn't accurate. But they tried hard to make me believe that Abound would have nearly zero inventory unless I bought into "the trust."

 

[maddog497]

We purchase the 4 night encore here at Lagunamer. $895 plus the $99. It came with 100,000 bonvoy points and included shuttle from and back to the airport. Good for 18 months.

You can book encore packages 10 months in advance.

We were thinking booking the last week in low season (week 4 or 5) and then use the encore dates in the higher season.


Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

 

[Eric B]

We purchase the 4 night encore here at Lagunamer. $895 plus the $99. It came with 100,000 bonvoy points and included shuttle from and back to the airport. Good for 18 months.

You can book encore packages 10 months in advance.

We were thinking booking the last week in low season (week 4 or 5) and then use the encore dates in the higher season.


Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

Be sure you set it up to use the Encore package over the weekend, too, to maximize the efficiency....