Overvaluing low mfs?

[Railman83]

As a newbie to Wyndham, can some explain the credit pool? Thanks.

You can push points into the future by one year or two.

The credit pool allowed you to pull from the future.

The main difference is you can no longer strip contacts of three years of points in a single year. The change is an inconvenience to owners but devastating to some business plans.

 

[Railman83]

As a newbie to Wyndham, can some explain the credit pool? Thanks.

Most point based systems allow banking (aka Worldmark automatic bank if not used) or borrowing of some sort, DVC allows both for example.

Banking is almost works like an every other year contract so you could take a big vacation every other year instead of a small vacation every year. A selling point over a fixed week system.

 

[Arimaas]

Got it. So while you used to be able to both save and borrow points, now you can only save, no longer borrow?

 

[Avislo]

The credit pool permitted assembling a large number of points for use. You could credit pool point for the current use year that could be used in the current use year plus the next two years. That I will call year 1. In year two you could credit pool the current year points into for use that year and the next two years. In year three you could credit pool points for the current use year for use in that year plus the next 2 years (credit pool deposit and use dates needed to be monitored and the pecking order for use of the points. They used to give one day to re-stack the points if the system used points that you did not want used. Some features of regular use points were not available when using credit pool points.

In year 3 you could possibly have use of year 1, 2, 3 year points or various use plans that suited the owners needs.

Borrowing points was a different set of rules. Borrowing points is still permitted.

 

[Braindead]

As a newbie to Wyndham, can some explain the credit pool? Thanks.

If the old credit pool was in place today. You could have a contract close today with the 2018 points intact. Then credit pool all the 2019 and 2020. By the end of 2018 you could use the first 3 years of points. Then January 1, 2019 credit pool the 2021 points and use them by April 23, 2019. You just used 4 years of points for 1 year of MFs.

Then Wyndham came along with their head up where the sun doesn’t shine. Knowingly took those contracts off of some big owners hands. Wyndham new full well what they were getting. Wyndham endorsed and encourage the stripping of contracts by taking those contracts numerous times.

Credit pool points where good for 3 years from the day you put them in the credit pooled

Put that contract in a Platinum account and those 4 years of points turned into the equivalent of 8-10 years of points for 1 year of MFs

 

[Avislo]

To complete the circle, if a person or firm took Wyndham Club Plus/Access contract for a fee, say 1,000 dollars in this example, and someone took them up on the offer and had credit pooled the prior two years or so of points because they could not or did not travel for the relevant time frame, and the credit pooled points associated with the contract in question transferred to the new owner, then add the transferred credit pool points to the example of the stripping contracts that was outlined above.

 

[paxsarah]

Credit pool points where good for 3 years from the day you put them in the credit pooled

This is the crux of how the old credit pool used to work, outside of the specifics of how the credit pool allowed for exploits like the stripping of contracts. A regular owner who wasn't going to be able to use all of their points in the upcoming year could credit pool them and use them anytime within three years of the date they pooled them. Now, we have to choose a single future year to use them in, and the moved points are only good in that one calendar year. For us non-megarenter typical owners, this is the main loss of flexibility.

 

[jebloomquist]

Last month the OP paid $1600 total for 375K Bali Hai, $600 less than your max. It seems like the deals are still out there.

My formulas include the transfer and closing costs which I think came to $800 dollars on that auction.

 

[Railman83]

My formulas include the transfer and closing costs which I think came to $800 dollars on that auction.

I didn’t buy off auction, I bought off a liquidator and TUG member. It was $1000 plus$600

 

[ronparise]

If that is all there is to the story, why didn't Wyndham just refuse to take back stripped accounts?

Instead, Wyndham radically altered the Club program to eliminate the credit pool and along with it the ability of owners to strip and sell the stripped accounts to anyone. Why did Wyndham replace the Credit Pool with the Points Deposit feature that only allows pushing points into future years?

Clearly, there is more to this story than "they [Wyndham] only cared when they found themselves holding the [stripped] contracts".

Wyndham did stop taking stripped contracts. But they had other issues with the way we were using the credit pool. If you read the old directory discussion of the credit pool it spells out their intent, saying something like “if you can’t travel in a particular year, the credit pool will allow you to push your points into a future year”. There was nothing in writing that suggested you could pull points from future years into the present. Although there was another provision whereby you could borrow next years points and another provision whereby you could “rent” points. I think the ability to credit pool future points was a mistake, (a loophole if you will) that they corrected

Think about it. Most timeshare require you to pay for your vacation before you take it. Wyndham is the exception, with monthly payments you can take a vacation in January before you make even your first of 12 payments. The credit pool allowed us to take three years of vacations on credit. I think this was too much risk for the system to take. It also created artificial demand on availability.

 

[ronparise]

The credit pool permitted assembling a large number of points for use. You could credit pool point for the current use year that could be used in the current use year plus the next two years. That I will call year 1. In year two you could credit pool the current year points into for use that year and the next two years. In year three you could credit pool points for the current use year for use in that year plus the next 2 years (credit pool deposit and use dates needed to be monitored and the pecking order for use of the points. They used to give one day to re-stack the points if the system used points that you did not want used. Some features of regular use points were not available when using credit pool points.

In year 3 you could possibly have use of year 1, 2, 3 year points or various use plans that suited the owners needs.

Borrowing points was a different set of rules. Borrowing points is still permitted.

That’s not clear to me

Here’s what I did

If I got a new contract today, I could , for example, put the 2018, 2019 and 2020 points into the pool and make reservations with them. In Jan 2019 I would be able to pool the 2021 points and use them

So in the first year I get the use of 3 years. And in succeeding years I get the use of just one year

 

[Avislo]

Mine was just one of various methods to use credit pool points. I was not talking about how to use the Credit Pool to strip a contract. The example I used was if a owner wanted to assemble a bunch of points in one year. Maybe to use on a high ticket reservation etc.

 

[Braindead]

The credit pool permitted assembling a large number of points for use. You could credit pool point for the current use year that could be used in the current use year plus the next two years. That I will call year 1. In year two you could credit pool the current year points into for use that year and the next two years. In year three you could credit pool points for the current use year for use in that year plus the next 2 years (credit pool deposit and use dates needed to be monitored and the pecking order for use of the points. They used to give one day to re-stack the points if the system used points that you did not want used. Some features of regular use points were not available when using credit pool points.

In year 3 you could possibly have use of year 1, 2, 3 year points or various use plans that suited the owners needs.

Borrowing points was a different set of rules. Borrowing points is still permitted.

That’s not clear to me

Here’s what I did

If I got a new contract today, I could , for example, put the 2018, 2019 and 2020 points into the pool and make reservations with them. In Jan 2019 I would be able to pool the 2021 points and use them

So in the first year I get the use of 3 years. And in succeeding years I get the use of just one year

Avislo [Robert] can’t get the maximum use right either.
You could have 5 years of points to use in year 3 of your ownership.
2 years of previous years points and 2 future years of points plus current year= 5 years of points could be used for 1 big vacation

 

[Arimaas]

Think about it. Most timeshare require you to pay for your vacation before you take it. Wyndham is the exception, with monthly payments you can take a vacation in January before you make even your first of 12 payments. The credit pool allowed us to take three years of vacations on credit. I think this was too much risk for the system to take. It also created artificial demand on availability.

HGVC allows you to borrow future year points for free, while saving (pushing points to next year) points from expiring costs money.

I assume from the discussion that Wyndham no longer allows "borrowing"?

 

[Braindead]

HGVC allows you to borrow future year points for free, while saving (pushing points to next year) points from expiring costs money.

I assume from the discussion that Wyndham no longer allows "borrowing"?

You can barrow from next year if your in the Express Reservation Period [90 days or less]
It is free to barrow points

 

[Dave Landry]

As a newbie to Wyndham, can some explain the credit pool? Thanks.

Points put in the credit pool could be used during the following 3 years. Now you can only move points to 1 of the 2 next year's and they have to be used during the year you choose only

 

[Cyrus24]

This is the crux of how the old credit pool used to work, outside of the specifics of how the credit pool allowed for exploits like the stripping of contracts. A regular owner who wasn't going to be able to use all of their points in the upcoming year could credit pool them and use them anytime within three years of the date they pooled them. Now, we have to choose a single future year to use them in, and the moved points are only good in that one calendar year. For us non-megarenter typical owners, this is the main loss of flexibility.

The vast majority of owners used the pool as it was designed and as described above. And, the vast majority of owners took a huge hit in regard to planning vacations (over time) with the elimination of the pool. Wyndham went after the strippers and mega-renters and forgot about those of us who actually plan and take the vacations we book. I'll never forgive Wyndham for taking away this benefit. The Deposit Feature is awful. I will make it work, but, I suspect many owners will end up losing points as a result of the extra planning now required. I do not blame strippers and mega-renters for destroying the pool. I BLAME WYNDHAM for NOT thinking about the smaller point owners, the majority of owners I might add.

 

[CO skier]

I do not blame strippers and mega-renters for destroying the pool.

So you think there is no cause and effect between what the mega-strippers were doing and the elimination of the credit pool?

 

[Braindead]

So you think there is no cause and effect between what the mega-strippers were doing and the elimination of the credit pool?

No I don’t think it had anything to do with the mega-strippers as you put it.
All Wyndham had to do was use the current time frames and rules of the point deposit feature with one change
The only change you could put points in the Points Deposit Feature and they would be good for 3 years instead of picking 1 of 2 years.
Problem solved!! So simple!!
No more pulling future years points forward to use now other than the rules on borrowing in the Express Reservation Period.
Instead Wyndham and you blame the mega-strippers when Wyndham helped to keep the stripping profitable by repeatedly taking the stripped contracts back

 

[Cyrus24]

So you think there is no cause and effect between what the mega-strippers were doing and the elimination of the credit pool?

The Credit Pool was exploited, legally, by the Contract Strippers. As much as I'd like to assign blame, they can't be blamed. Wyndham chose to clamp down on pulling points from future years for current year usage by just shutting down the pool. Wyndham could have simply redefined how far in advance a point could be pooled.

 

[CO skier]

Wyndham could have simply redefined how far in advance a point could be pooled.

That is exactly what Wyndham did with Points Deposit. Owners may deposit points one year in advance or two years in advance. Platinum VIPs have until the end of their use year to decide. Regular owners have until the end of the first quarter of their use year to decide.

One of the key questions for timeshare happiness is, "6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?"

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-to-buy-questions-for-newbies.208742/

 

[CO skier]

The Credit Pool was exploited, legally, by the Contract Strippers.

Insider trading was exploited, legally, until laws were passed to prohibit abuses. Were the laws enacted arbitrarily or as a result of the actions of those engaged in shady insider trading?

Now there is legal insider trading and illegal insider trading.

Now there is illegal Credit Pooling and legal Points Deposits.

Don't blame the Regulators who are trying to maintain a fair system.

 

[paxsarah]

That is exactly what Wyndham did with Points Deposit. Owners may deposit points one year in advance or two years in advance. Platinum VIPs have until the end of their use year to decide. Regular owners have until the end of the first quarter of their use year to decide.

This omits the fact that in addition to disallowing the pulling of future points into the present, Wyndham also reduced the period of time an owner can used their pooled/deposited points from 3 years to 1 (or 15 months, if you count the first three months of the year before the deposit deadline). If Wyndham were simply going to stop the pulling of future points into today, they could have still given us a window of the first three months of the UY to do the deposit, but then allowed the points to be used any time from then until the end of the third year. They chose to reduce the benefit instead.

 

[Braindead]

Now there is illegal Credit Pooling and legal Points Deposits.

Don't blame the Regulators who are trying to maintain a fair system.

I thought the credit pool was dead-gone.
Now there is illegal Credit Pooling - what is that and how do we put points in the illegal Credit Pool ?
You didn’t respond to my post #94
If Wyndham only wanted to stop the pulling of future points into the current year what’s wrong with what paxsarah and I pointed out.
Non VIP in 2018 can extend thier points to December 31,2020. But they have pick 2019 or 2020
If the non VIP could use a Point Deposit Feature that would be good for 3 years those points would only be good till March 31,2021 another 3 months without the restriction of having to pick a use year to put the points in.
I think owners could understand why the credit pool needed fixed.

Yes the credit pool was broken so change the name to Points Deposit Feature with the fix. The current Points Deposit Feature fixed the problem but also destroyed the flexibility for non stripper owners

 

[Avislo]

The Credit Pool is not dead yet. People that beat the cutoff date for credit pooling new deposits still can use them though up to 2020 depending on their situation and when they credit pooled the points.