Overlapping Reservations

[WManning]

Just what do you think gives you the right to say how many points I should use or anyone else should use? Or, to determine what is normal or average?

My average points/reservation is 142,367, about twice your 70K/reservation. I have one two-week reservation and one eleven-night reservation that bump the average. They are offset to some extent by four five-night, one four-night, and one three-night reservations. Eliminate the two extended reservations and the six short ones and you get an average of 132,000 for the four full week reservations. You're still off by almost a factor of two.

Like I said your average number of reservations would be only 10 according to your average number of points used of 142,367 per reservation

 

[Rolltydr]

Just what do you think gives you the right to say how many points I should use or anyone else should use? Or, to determine what is normal or average?

Because he’s an owner just as much as you are and has the same right to his opinion as you do to yours. Just because he doesn’t have as many points as you do doesn’t make him sny less of an owner. In fact, he’s more “normal” or “average” than someone who has 28 current reservations.

 

[WManning]

Just what do you think gives you the right to say how many points I should use or anyone else should use? Or, to determine what is normal or average?

Open forums encourage discussion.

Because he’s an owner just as much as you are and has the same right to his opinion as you do to yours. Just because he doesn’t have as many points as you do doesn’t make him sny less of an owner. In fact, he’s more “normal” or “average” than someone who has 28 current reservations.

Exactly what I was thinking. Sorry if he is butt hurt by the questions asked. Please keep in mind open forums do encourage discussion and replies.
Roll Tide!

 

[chapjim]

Like I said your average number of reservations would be only 10 according to your average number of points used of 142,367 per reservation.

Your situation would only use 10 reservations using 1.4 millions points. Backs up my assumption 28 reservations is more then a normal or average owner should use.

Considering your figures of ten reservations and 1.4 million points have no basis in anything and the fact that more than half of my 28 reservations are in 2023, I don't see anything out of line at all.

142,367 was the average for twelve reservations in the rest of 2022. Some longer and some shorter than a week.

 

[chapjim]

Open forums encourage discussion.

Exactly what I was thinking. Sorry if he is butt hurt by the questions asked. Please keep in mind open forums do encourage discussion and replies.
Roll Tide!

I'm all for open forums but take offense when people with no legitimate interest in what I do decide I am doing something excessive or abnormal when they have no factual basis for saying that.

 

[Rolltydr]

I have to assume the average owner dosent book 28 vacations in a year.

It would be nice to know how many points a Average owner owns. Lets say a VIPP owns 1.4 million and books every reservation for 1 week at a 50% discount. This would be on average 70k per reservation or only 20 reservations. This is based on a non presidential 1 bedroom only.

I'm all for open forums but take offense when people with no legitimate interest in what I do decide I am doing something excessive or abnormal when they have no factual basis for saying that

What exactly do you see in WMannings posts that irritates you so much? He‘s making an observation that 28 reservations is more than the average number of reservations an owner would have. He then says it would be nice to know the sverage number of points Wyndham owners have. How do you see either of those as an attack on you? Do you believe the average owner has 28 reservations at any given time?

 

[chapjim]

What exactly do you see in WMannings posts that irritates you so much? He‘s making an observation that 28 reservations is more than the average number of reservations an owner would have. He then says it would be nice to know the sverage number of points Wyndham owners have. How do you see either of those as an attack on you? Do you believe the average owner has 28 reservations at any given time?

I don't think an average owner has twenty-eight reservations, even over two years, So what? Is there something wrong or abnormal with having twenty-eight reservatons over two years?

I also don't think the average owner has 1.4 million points. Some have a lot less, some have a lot more. But there's nothing wrong or abmormal with being either above or below average, whatever it is.

But, you're right. I shouldn't react to absurd, inane posts.

Roll Tide!

 

[Rolltydr]

I don't think an average owner has twenty-eight reservations, even over two years, So what? Is there something wrong or abnormal with having twenty-eight reservatons over two years?

I also don't think the average owner has 1.4 million points. Some have a lot less, some have a lot more. But there's nothing wrong or abmormal with being either above or below average, whatever it is.

But, you're right. I shouldn't react to absurd, inane posts.

Roll Tide!

So, you agree with what he said but you don‘t like that he said it?

 

[tschwa2]

Would you consider 28 to be excessive or the norm?

While not the norm, I would consider 30 to be not unusual for goldVP and perhaps even less unusual for platinum and founders and non vip with over a million points.

 

[Jan M.]

I don't think we can make assumptions in regards to averages. There are just too many variables and no data.

What I might consider valid, if we had the figures, is the average number of reservations per hundred thousand points for non VIP and the average for the different levels of VIP.

 

[WManning]

I don't think we can make assumptions in regards to averages. There are just too many variables and no data.

What I might consider valid, if we had the figures, is the average number of reservations per hundred thousand points for non VIP and the average for the different levels of VIP.

Blend them all together to find the averages?

 

[Jan M.]

Blend them all together to find the averages?

The owner usage is so widely varied I don't think that would give an accurate picture.

Bronze and Silver VIP don't get unlimited free reservation transactions and the newer VIP owners don't get unlimited housekeeping credits. So even within the VIP levels those two things are going to have an effect on the owner's useage.

I'm thinking of our own usage over the years we've owned and how much it's varied.

We're retired now and take longer trips. Sometimes I'm able to book our stays in one reservation but it's more likely that I'll have to build the stays using multiple reservations. But even before we retired I still sometimes had to build stays. I now also book some 2-3 night stays to break up our drive time.

We live about 20-25 minutes from the Pompano Beach resorts. I booked us a two night staycation over the 4th to watch the fireworks. I've done that over New Year's too. People in our part of Florida love their fireworks and if you have a higher floor unit you can watch them going off throughout the evening. We downsized when we moved to Florida and I sometimes book a few nights at our local resorts for visiting family and friends.

When we lived up North we were both still working. The closest resort to us was old Town Alexandria at 6+ hours away. For our other vacations we either flew Florida or Las Vegas or drove the 11.5 hours straight through to Myrtle Beach. There were no nights on the road or staycations.

There is one way I can think of that might give us somewhat of a picture. The average per hundred thousand points for non discounted point reservations and the average for discounted point reservations. With the travel deals even non VIP owners can get some great discounted point reservations.

I'm a numbers, data and projections based on that information person. It's a gift I was blessed with. I'd hope that Wyndham has someone who compiles all that data and furthermore that their work gets looked at by the people who should be looking at it. I'd certainly be in my happy place if I had the chance to set up varying ways to compile it, go over it and make my own assessments.

 

[Sandi Bo]

And the bottom line is, Wyndham doesn't want you to know. I don't believe any data is published as far as number of owners, number of PR versus platinum, versus no status, etc, etc. As a rule, Wyndham shares as little as possible, about anything.

 

[Jan M.]

And the bottom line is, Wyndham doesn't want you to know. I don't believe any data is published as far as number of owners, number of PR versus platinum, versus no status, etc, etc. As a rule, Wyndham shares as little as possible, about anything.

At the owners meetings they used to tell us how many owners there currently were. Somewhere, probably at the last in person owner's meeting in Austin in 2019, I've heard the percentage of owners who are VIP or it could have been just platinum but that was before Founders and Bronze levels were added. I didn't listen to the online owners meeting in 2021 but I did listen to the one for 2020. The presenter gave the number of owners and I think also the number of reservations owners had for the previous year.

We don't do the updates or sales presentations but I expect that the salespeople throw out some numbers. Who knows if they're partially made up numbers, real numbers or even if they are real numbers if they're recent numbers.

There's a lot of numbers that I'm curious about. Not for any special reason but just because I like numbers and data. The next time I'm in our account if I can see the annual owners report for 2021 I'll look at the dollar amount for guest certificates and try to come up with a fairly accurate approximate number of them. I'm thinking that either 2/3 or 3/4 of the guest confirmations would be at online price of $99 and the other 1/3 or 1/4 would be at the call in price of $129. Does anyone have any thoughts about what they think the percentages of online vs over the phone might be?

 

[chapjim]

At the owners meetings they used to tell us how many owners there currently were. Somewhere, probably at the last in person owner's meeting in Austin in 2019, I've heard the percentage of owners who are VIP or it could have been just platinum but that was before Founders and Bronze levels were added. I didn't listen to the online owners meeting in 2021 but I did listen to the one for 2020. The presenter gave the number of owners and I think also the number of reservations owners had for the previous year.

We don't do the updates or sales presentations but I expect that the salespeople throw out some numbers. Who knows if they're partially made up numbers, real numbers or even if they are real numbers if they're recent numbers.

There's a lot of numbers that I'm curious about. Not for any special reason but just because I like numbers and data. The next time I'm in our account if I can see the annual owners report for 2021 I'll look at the dollar amount for guest certificates and try to come up with a fairly accurate approximate number of them. I'm thinking that either 2/3 or 3/4 of the guest confirmations would be at online price of $99 and the other 1/3 or 1/4 would be at the call in price of $129. Does anyone have any thoughts about what they think the percentages of online vs over the phone might be?

Amongst Tuggers, I would think the percentage of phone call GCs would be next to zero.

 

[lost patience]

We are VIPF. We have a large family account. For 2022 Jan through July our total point usage is 720k and 17 reservations that range from 2 nights to 14 nights. Our avg is a 42.3k . We plan ahead, yet are flexible. We almost never stay at a resort without a discount or an upgrade. For example, if we can't get into Smokies Lodge, we will stay at Smoky Mountains. We are willing to change rooms during a longer stay - and will try for an overlap day to allow us to move at our own time. Many resorts will either downgrade or upgrade to keep us in the same room. Summer is busy and I am having a difficult time ensuring each overlap does indeed have a different name on the reservation. I feel like Wyndham is trying for push me out. Making the website so frustrating so that we give up and turn our membership over to them via certified exit.

 

[WManning]

We are VIPF. We have a large family account. For 2022 Jan through July our total point usage is 720k and 17 reservations that range from 2 nights to 14 nights. Our avg is a 42.3k . We plan ahead, yet are flexible. We almost never stay at a resort without a discount or an upgrade. For example, if we can't get into Smokies Lodge, we will stay at Smoky Mountains. We are willing to change rooms during a longer stay - and will try for an overlap day to allow us to move at our own time. Many resorts will either downgrade or upgrade to keep us in the same room. Summer is busy and I am having a difficult time ensuring each overlap does indeed have a different name on the reservation. I feel like Wyndham is trying for push me out. Making the website so frustrating so that we give up and turn our membership over to them via certified exit.

Nice work. I like your use of the discounts and upgrades. It helps to lower your nightly cost average.

 

[troy12n]

Yeah, 1.4 million points and 28 pending reservations is the "typical owner"... happy renting!

Keep in mind that if all your points aren't retail, and you are not gold VIP with grandfathered HK, that's gonna get expensive quick. Especially after you factor in your GC costs. But you are providing a valuable service to someone out there, right? Little mini entrepreneurs!

 

[WManning]

Yeah, 1.4 million points and 28 pending reservations is the "typical owner"... happy renting!

Keep in mind that if all your points aren't retail, and you are not gold VIP with grandfathered HK, that's gonna get expensive quick. Especially after you factor in your GC costs. But you are providing a valuable service to someone out there, right? Little mini entrepreneurs!

Whoa I never mentioned renting! Hopefully your not butt hurt and I didn't offend you to. It was just a assumption based on someone having 28 reservations. I was just trying to figure out the math being a numbers guy that I am.

 

[chapjim]

Yeah, 1.4 million points and 28 pending reservations is the "typical owner"... happy renting!

Keep in mind that if all your points aren't retail, and you are not gold VIP with grandfathered HK, that's gonna get expensive quick. Especially after you factor in your GC costs. But you are providing a valuable service to someone out there, right? Little mini entrepreneurs!

I'm VIP Founders, and Presidential Reserve. I'm retired and can go pretty much where and when we want. You're clueless but like to stir things up.

I don't rent. I used to.

 

[WManning]

I'm VIP Founders, and Presidential Reserve. I'm retired and can go pretty much where and when we want. You're clueless but like to stir things up.

I don't rent. I used to.

All good things come to a end. Your not the only one that Wyndham squeezed out to limit the competition.

 

[Rolltydr]

I'm VIP Founders, and Presidential Reserve. I'm retired and can go pretty much where and when we want.

Which means you are not the average Wyndham owner. Of course, you already knew that. You just want to argue that you’re a victim of the big, bad Wyndham corporation, instead of the multi-million points owner who skirted the rules for years to run a for profit rental business with those Wyndham points. I’m just not buying that the average Wyndham owner does that.

 

[patwerner1]

Back to the original question
I have an upcoming vacation in July - invited friends to come join me in the 2 br unit. Total of 5 adults and 1 toddler.
2 of the adults (the parents) will only be there 2 nights. After some thought I realized that 3 vehicles might not be the best even though the unit sleeps 8. So I booked another 2 br unit for the 2 nights. (listed my late husband as the person checking - plan to change it to a guest cert closer to the trip)
One day I saw that a 1 br unit was available - so booked it. I got a pop-up that said I had another reservation - I do not remember if the message said overlapping or duplicate - and if I do not do something within 72 hours the reservation would be cancelled.

On another note - I have overlapped trips more than once at different resorts. My reasoning is if I am moving perishables I would rather leave the unit in the late afternoon to ci to the new unit. Yes - it is a waste of points but better for my peace of mind!

 

[WManning]

Which means you are not the average Wyndham owner. Of course, you already knew that. You just want to argue that you’re a victim of the big, bad Wyndham corporation, instead of the multi-million points owner who skirted the rules for years to run a for profit rental business with those Wyndham points. I’m just not buying that the average Wyndham owner does that.

Back to the original question
I have an upcoming vacation in July - invited friends to come join me in the 2 br unit. Total of 5 adults and 1 toddler.
2 of the adults (the parents) will only be there 2 nights. After some thought I realized that 3 vehicles might not be the best even though the unit sleeps 8. So I booked another 2 br unit for the 2 nights. (listed my late husband as the person checking - plan to change it to a guest cert closer to the trip)
One day I saw that a 1 br unit was available - so booked it. I got a pop-up that said I had another reservation - I do not remember if the message said overlapping or duplicate - and if I do not do something within 72 hours the reservation would be cancelled.

On another note - I have overlapped trips more than once at different resorts. My reasoning is if I am moving perishables I would rather leave the unit in the late afternoon to ci to the new unit. Yes - it is a waste of points but better for my peace of mind!

Back a few years ago it was cheaper to pick up a last minute rental.

 

[WyndhamBarter]

if I am moving perishables I would rather leave the unit in the late afternoon

Many of the resorts are happy to help with this even with non-overlapping.

Quite recently we were at Kauai Coast Resort at The Beachboy for two back-to-back 3 night stays,
first in a 1BR and then a 2BR. They processed it as a "room change": leave suitcases in the old room
and perishables in the fridge. By magic, 4 hours later it's all in your new room!