Orange Lake "Go Global"....Points based program

[Mel]

mel

either the program is operating or it is not .....the analogy to pre construction does not seem to be a good one unless they are "building" this program piece meal

if it is not, then they should not have a website suggesting you "click here for details"

guess we are all getting into the semantics ....it all depends what the meaning of "is" is


if i am mistaken and this program is "not" functional as of June 29th when i told it was .....i sincerely apologize

What I meant about preconstruction is that they are selling a program that is not functional yet. Did they show you any literature about the new program, or did they just try to sell you on it without hard details? If they had the hard facts, they would have presented them. If they knew it would cost $3000 to buy in with an older unit, they would have told ljane that, even if it was as a last resort, because I'm sure they would earn a comission on that sale - they didn't because the program is not ready yet. The fact is, they first told her she wouldn't be able to join (from the Sales Supervisor, no less), and was then told she "might" be able to buy in. This was obviously a lie, or at best misinformed.

I suspect that is the lie Vickie is alluding to - and since I already had pointed it out, she probably didn't feel a need to do so again.

 

[ajsmithtx]

Thanks Steve and Mel.

I am awaiting an annoucement via the e newsletter or snail mail.

 

[timetraveler]

Thanks Doug, Steve and Mel.

The program is available obviously to all OL owners. The pre-construction RI unit owners are grandfathered in. All new RI owners (whether they are new to OL, or they are existing owners upgrading, are placed in the new program as part of their purchase and there is no fee to join. They will have to pay annual dues and exchanges fees like everyone else.

The program has annual dues and you will pay an exchange fee. Again, all owners can join the program. I'm happy to discuss those fees privately with OL owners.

Hopefully the packet will be out by the 30th. But don't hold me to that. Since so many owners are at the resort every week, alot of them are being brought up to speed each week.

Other resorts have been courted by OL and have joined the program, now OL's being courted. OL has also purchased some resorts. Wisconsin, UK and Hawaii.

I'm not familiar with the Wisconsin resort. I do know it's name is Grand Geneva Resort and Spa. I'm assuming that means it's somewhere on Lake Geneva.

Remember a few weeks back when I said the larger resorts are tired of the way exchanges were being done. :annoyed: And not to be surprised when they take back control?

Your points can be used for many things. You can also bring your other TS's into the program for which you will be given double points. There will be levels....much like Bluegreen. Platinum...etc.

Personally we don't need points for airfare, meals, and all the other stuff point programs offer....but I understand that there is a large segment of OL families that do like and want those things. OL listens to their owners.....and is responding accordingly.

The program will be great for those that love a points based product. For those that do not need it....they can stay exactly the way they currently are.

 

[lawgs]

Ibttat~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[JLB]

Some of these guesses downplay the role of RCI, and have for quite some time now, as if OL would like to do away with RCI altogether.

Although it is not definitive it's as good as all the other guesses going around, perhaps better, but Inside Guy said from what he knows OL is starting a Club, and they have also entered into a long-term agreement with RCI.

 

[timetraveler]

There is an annual fee paid to Global Access

Fees charged for internal exchanges.

Yep, there is an annual membership fee and an internal exchange fee as I noted above. Like RCI's with one big exception.....Global internal exchange fee is 1/3 of RCI's exchange fee!

All OL owner's with the one exception of RI owners, have to pay a "one time fee" to join the program. The program will be tiered, like many other "hotel points based programs". Platinum obviously the cherry on the sundae, etc. The more points in your portfolio, the better the perks.

Again, for those owner's that have wanted a points based product....OL is going to deliver that. For those that don't need points for other products....or small short stays, you can leave well enough alone. Time will tell, as to how much inventory remains within RCI.

 

[lawgs]

Ibttat~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[timetraveler]

anyone who purchased an RI unit is grandfathered in. All new RI owners, and any existing OL owner that now decides to purchase another week within the resort also have the "one time fee" waived. That's why so many owners are upgrading and or purchasing another week. I guess there are many many families that want a points based product.

As to how many owners need the flexibility of a points based product, remains to be seen.

 

[lawgs]

Ibttat~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[timetraveler]

guess i will have to get after that less than truthful director of owners operatiions tomorrow, hard to make a decision when there is so much deception from the company

Global internal exchange fee is 1/3 of RCI's exchange fee

doing the math says 50$ for an internal exchange according to what you are posting......that is not the number that was quoted to us by the "brochure" sent out by the Global Access program

IBTTAT~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok...so I needed to say a wee bit more than 1/4, but less than 1/3 under RCI's current exchange fee. I didn't think I was being graded in math class anymore.

RCI's fee is about to be $164. Then Global's fee will be a wee bit less than 1/4. I hope I passed the math test this time. It's been years. :rofl:

Global's internal exchange fee is $40 bucks.

No deception from OL....just alittle misunderstanding evidently. It's easily cleared up, no big deal.

Quite simple....you purchase another unit in any village, you get the fee waived. You don't purchase another unit, you pay the initial fee plus yearly dues. You purchase a RI unit, you automatically have enough points to be in the elite status.

Only other way to attain elite status is to own enough other OL/outside TS units to equal enough points to give you that level.

 

[lawgs]

Ibttat~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[timetraveler]

quandary ......now i do not know who to believe Orange Lake Owner Support Servcies or Timetraveler....who has the better truth

truth is so fleeting in the timeshare world

No quandry lawgs. Just a small misunderstanding. It's a huge undertaking. My eyes rolled around alot in the beginning too, when I was trying to grasp the program.

 

[Dave M]

I have deleted the most recent post added to this thread.

All who post here should be sure they understand the "Be Courteous" posting rule for the BBS forums. Further, comments about moderating are not appropriate. If you have any question as to how the rules apply or how to comment on moderating, please read the appropriate sections of the "Posting Rules" (link at the top of the page).

Also, some people may choose not to respond to questions posed. Do not badger participants to respond. If you have a question that you believe has been ignored and would still like to have a response, take it to e-mail or a private message.

Dave M
BBS Administrator

 

[gjw007]

The "Access" times are divided into FOUR.

Home Access 13 to 12 months out

guaranteed use of your unit/week
access to RCI weeks resorts

Resort Access 12 to 10 months out

access to any unit/week at the resort of purchase
7 night stays
arrivals according to resort check in days

Open Access 10 months to 1 month out

Ability to travel to any Orange Lake Family of Resorts with minimum 2 night stay
Travel to any RCI points resort minimum 1 night stay
Check in any day

Instant Access 59 days or less

Periodic discounts on Global Access points


Looks like for now 1 RCI point will be equal to 2 Global Access points ( the ole RCI reserves the right to change this value )

This looks about the same as RCI Points. If so, I'm not sure that is a good thing (I didn't buy a week at Xmas time so that I could beg the company to let me use my week and unit over a year in advance. I bought a specific week so that I didn't have to worry about scrambling trying to get that week). Also, did they send a brochure out to owners? If so, I still haven't received any information.

 

[lawgs]

dave M

was trying to be courteous that is why i posted the message saying

may i ask you a question about river island purchase/status now that you have included something about it in your revised post above or is that out of bounds????

the answer could have been NO and we would have been on our way

was not trying to badger anyone but thought the original post with the above "quote" in it may have been missed since "further edits to the post #35 had been done" and another later post #37 had taken place in the interim

if you feel you must "censor" me ....so be it.....

we had an inquiring mind about a subject in which we have interest and which a certain tugger seems to have some insight

perhaps since you seem to consider my posts as being "out of bounds" and "discourteous" ......a "ban" might be in place .......do what you must do....


IBTTAT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[lawgs]

according to OLCC Owner Service Support:

You cannot get into the ELITE tier of their program by just buying into lowest level/season at River Island since it is all based on points.

There are three tiers: Traditional <300,000, Priority>300000 but < 500000, Premier 500000 plus

different perks for every level although they did not have a complete listing of perks when asked ... ( a couple they mentioned were reduced internal exchange fees and "free point upgrade" based upon availability to other areas within the resort eg if you own west and have tier level, you can get into north and east village using the points chart for west village without paying the chart cost for those villages. You would not get this going into River Island, but there may be to be some other "upgrade" method they apply )

At the present moment there is NO grandfathering of prior ( who bought before the program launched ) River Island purchases or upgrades. The fee is approximately 1300$ with yearly membership fee of approximately 90$.

They are introducing a program separate from the tier program that will target approximately 800 of the 100000 owners. It has a name similar to "Signature" and those involved will have access to a special cadre of ownder support staff who will do their "planning" for them once they put in a request ( similar in my mind to concierge service one would get from a hotel )

The program has a lot of similarities to RCI points but now OLCC is controlling the "value" of points assigned which when converted to RCI points is higher than the RCI generic chart for Florida timeshares for unit categories.

 

[JLB]

Anyone remember the good old days, when everyone told the same lie, if you buy here you can trade to anywhere, anytime?

You didn't have to sort it out, it was such a nice and simple lie.

We have had 92 wonderful (mostly) exchanges, just trading our weeks for weeks at other resorts. When it came to getting into specific resorts at specific times, we either could or we couldn't.

But that wasn't good enough, so a superior, more complicated product came on the market. Then another. Then another. Then another.

Maybe because some people figured out the simple system.

Each new one came with it's own price tag.

As for us, when the prognosticators are proven correct, and it all goes to heck in a handbag, we will just walk away from it, happy with our memories of the days before the system got improved.

Frankly, I have a bias (No! ), probably from my ten years in direct sales, and the mantra of the direct sales industry, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS!"

If you think I am hard on the industry, you should have heard the travel guy on one of the network morning shows yesterday. Man he really ripped it. Among other things he said it was one of the few industries still operating like a glorified used car sales outfit, with the heavy high pressure sales tactics and the least satisfaction of owners of any industry.

Sure, we will deny that here, but we are the happy ones! Happy, happy, happy.

 

[timeos2]

While in general I'm a strong supporter of points based exchanges this program is starting out saying all the wrong things. They are creating artifical groups within the new group of points owners, trying to create value from numbers of points and tiering. This means a never ending barrage of "you need to be Premuim Golden Bear Cerified Million Mile Platnum Crusted Plutonium owners to get the 'free' upgrade to a two tube rental. Of course that places you head and shoulders above the mere owner who paid $30,000 for their time and even ahead of those who added $20K more to become only Super Superior Silver Toasted Spoon members. They can't get two tubes or a cabana until after 9AM each morning. The $15K to move up is nothing compared to those benefits. But don't forget next year you may need to move into the Known Sucker Jubilee Award - oh, sorry, thats the award I get as the first salesperson to convince an existing owners to spend more than $50k for trumped up ownership tiers we change on a whim. I think your status will have to be a Trillion Point Terror owner to get me there. And by the way I can't do anything to get you the time you want as the time is being used for marketing".

All these VIP, tiers and other crazy programs are just new ways to part you from your money. A new mini-system with unknown features and only promises of great things to come is tha last thing I would buy into. This one sounds particularly front loaded for future sales pitches rather than value.

 

[timetraveler]

Whoa...where's the 50k figure coming from John? Where's the 15K thing coming from for that matter.

You see, this is why I was not willing to discuss the program on an open forum. Lawgs post....has people speculating wild things.

Lawgs....well, I'm not even going to address the things in your thread.
I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

[timeos2]

Whoa...where's the 50k figure coming from John? Where's the 15K thing coming from for that matter.

You see, this is why I was not willing to discuss the program on an open forum. Lawgs post....has people speculating wild things.

Lawgs....well, I'm not even going to address the things in your thread.
I wouldn't know where to begin.

I'm picking up where the typical points sales person - FF, Global, whatever - usually starts. They aren't timid about telling an owner who may have paid as little as a few thousand or 10's of thousands that they "need" more so they can become whatever today's new premium tier may be. They always ignore the fact that the base ownership they purchased really can't be improved - it's the bells and whistles around it, most of which are nothing but hype - sizzle - that those additional thousands are going to buy. It gives validity to points haters when this type of stuff gets sold to pressured owners.

Nothing wrong with a well designed points system as an alternative to other methods. But all these tiers, nicknames and attempts to make the buyers think they a getting something of value - as the Gecko says "to be better than anyone else" are expensive fluff that have no place in a well run system. Not to say this group is doing anything that all the others don't. I don't like any of them for this type of sales pitch and wish they would turn down the pressure and let the systems stand on their own merit. But it really raises a red flag when from day one the goal seems to be more sales rather than a better choice in exchange. This one has all the earmarks of sales first - value and owner benefits last.

 

[timetraveler]

Maybe so from your personal experience.

But OL is and always has been about value and owner benefits, and first class service for those owners.

That is what ticks alot of exchangers off. Haven't we had endless threads about people making "second class citizens" statements?

No high pressure sales to exisitng owners, the dept that handles existing owners is totally different from the "outside source sales dept", there is no twisting your arm behind your back, no making you feel like if you don't do something, your "less of an owner".

Upgrading to RI is no where near the sums you suggested.

Again....like I said......this is why I did not post the in depth details of this program on an open forum. Quite frankly....it's meant for existing OL owners, not for the rest of the TS world.

As soon as I read lawgs post....and all the stuff he/she has come up with.....I knew this would happen. It serves no purpose other than to confuse those on the outside looking in. They can see, but are not privy to the discussion going on inside. It only causes major confusion on the part of the person on the outside.

One need not purchase an additional single thing, if they have enough existing inventory (in the form of OL units and outside properties). They would only need to pay the initial fee, and then yearly dues.

I for one don't need to purchase or upgrade anything additional. My portfolio pulls all the needed points. There will be many many owners in this category. Their only decision will be whether or not they "need or want" a points based product.

 

[lawgs]

well, I'm not even going to address the things in your thread


With all due respect


It seems that some information "given" out about this program in this thread has come from a HOA board member, so much on the inside, that they know more than the insiders who are implementing this program

As much as it would have been nice to “come up with this stuff”, the source was Owner Support Service at Orange Lake ( they called me and asked me if i had any questions ), perhaps they are out of the “loop”. Rhetorically, if you cannot trust this department of OLCC, who can you trust.

Anymore, I cannot get a handle on the supposed mission statement about being about value and owner benefits supplemented by first class service. Some owners seem to be “less” in the eyes of those who know more due to their elevated status within the Association.

We will resign ourselves that even as owners, there will be some who are on the “inside” and others who will be on the “outside” regardless of “implied equality”. It seems "true" information about this program comes only if you are deemed worthy of it and perhaps have signed a non-disclosure agreement.

If anything I posted above is “wrong” , I will be more than happy to recant those statements……

until then I have to go with what I was able to glean from Owner Support Services and not with the seemingly shrouded secrecy and double speak of the HOA

INBTTAT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[timetraveler]

Ok....first of all, "owner support services" is part of Global Access. An entirely separate and new division of the Orange Lake family.

They are not "member services i.e. Orange Lake. Member services handles existing owners. OL treats all owners equally. No OL owner is considered "lesser". And I know of, nor have I heard of any management personnel that feels that way either.

My reference to inside and/or outside info was referring to individuals that do not own there and try to post OL policy. Hence the comment about being on the outside looking in, and being obviously confused and mis-stating information.

Over the years here on TUG some have done exactly that, and that's when you will see my posts, correcting that mis information.

Of course, owners that are involved in some capacity at the resort, are going to have what you are calling "inside" information. Management in any company/corporation has information before others in the organization. That does not mean they are "higher class" and the other employees are "lesser" in some way. It's just the way companies run.

There's no cloud of secrecy, or double speak. That's why my comments have been in general terms. If you are an owner lawgs....you will receive your information. Your trying to rush things, only leaves you with a sense of frustration. If you will just wait for the mailing...

Many will love the program. Others will want to stay as they are.

 

[JimJ]

...No high pressure sales to exisitng owners, the dept that handles existing owners is totally different from the "outside source sales dept", there is no twisting your arm behind your back, no making you feel like if you don't do something, your "less of an owner".....

Sounds as if the "Outside source sales dept" is the typical sales scumbags, but they suddenly become "good guys" when they now try to extract more dollars from existing owners? Anyone who believes this can probably buy that ocean front property in Arizona also.

 

[timetraveler]

they are two entirely different teams. The team that handles owners are very low pressure. Or at least they should be. Their job is to inform you of the newly implemented changes/policies, ask for feedback/comments, and see if you are interested in ugrading or adding. That's all.

This team used to be called the V.I.P. team, and you went inside the VIP lounge across from Kemmon's Place. Now instead of you going to the lounge, they will come to you in your villa, if you want them too, if you don't, they don't come by.

This team does nothing but meet with OL owners onsite or over the phone.

Member services....used to pull up owner accounts in the system by their week/unit #. You will now be pulled up by your name.

The outside sales, sales team have absolutely nothing to do with existing owners.