[OLD - 2009] Wyndham Bans Ebay Sales/Purchases?

[carlbarry]

I don't know if this is the correct forum, but here goes:
An elderly friend of mine just returned from Atlantic City, on his sister's points. He went to three days - I kid you not - of sales presentations (personally, I'd rather be waterboarded). When they tried to sell him points, he asked why should he buy from them, as he has a friend (me) who buys on ebay for pennies.
Here's the good part: They told him, "Let your friend buy all he wants. We are no longer honoring points purchased on ebay When he calls to use them, we will tell him we do not accept those points." !!!!!!!
Has any body else encountered this?
By the way, I'd also like your opinions on this: What they did talk him into is transferring his deed to D.C., and purchasing an extra 154,000 points for a total of 308,000 points. This will add to his monthly financing (some people never learn), and cost him over 10 years $3,6000. AND they told him his MF would go up a mere $9 per month, for a total of $91 per month.
Thanks.

 

[Blondie]

I'g guess that is a standard lie they tell to forestall that discussion. I have bought most of my timeshares and points on ebay and to my knowledge the resort NEVER knows how or where the resale occurs.

 

[carlbarry]

It just occurs to me, and as a lawyer, it should have occurred sooner LOL--that if Wyndham accepts your ownership when you purchase, and then accepts your payments of membership, MF, property tax, etc., it's a little difficult for them not to accept you as a legitimate owner when you call to book a reservation!

 

[JMAESD84]

I hope your elderly friend is still has time to rescind this purchase and does so promptly.

It's very sad to hear of these folks getting ripped off especially when they have friends who know better.

 

[Patri]

You don't want to get him to rescind his latest purchase?

 

[carlbarry]

I don't think there is any chance he'd rescind. He feels that 1. it's a good buy because he can pass it on to the children. and 2. he can rent out rooms he's booked and make money. Also, he is afraid of Wyndham; he asked me not to post details, as he "doesn't want to get in trouble." In fact, his wife was yelling at him not to talk to me!

 

[AwayWeGo]

Wyndham Restrictions Against Renting Out Points Reservations.

2. he can rent out rooms he's booked and make money.

Wasn't there recently lots of heated discussion right here on TUG-BBS about Wyndham's clamping down on renting out reservations ?

As I recall, some people were doing that bigtime -- so much so that the clampdown put them in a serious financial bind.

Or am I remembering wrong ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[PerryM]

Wag the dog...

There is a very good reason that Wyndham resales go for 5 cents on the dollar - Wyndham is at war with their owners. This is a knock-down, take no prisoners war by Wyndham against every Wyndham owner.

This war takes many forms but lying to owners is right up there at the top.

If Wyndham interferes with the normal usage of a deeded timeshare that's against many real estate laws I'd bet.

However, they can screw around with just about anything else that hasn't to do with the normal process of reserving a deeded week at the home resort. Points are not deeded weeks and thus Wyndham can mess with them anyway they want; I'll bet the fine print on the points agreement says so.

Maybe Wyndham will be the first timeshare company where resales are worth $0.00, or make history and worth NEGATIVE value - you, the owner, will gladly pay someone to take over the MFs.

The consequence of being at war with the owners is that resales look better and better to the informed resale buyer - the exact opposite result that Wyndham wanted. (This should not be a surprise when the sales folks wag the dog)

Unintended consequences isn't just limited to our federal government...

 

[Carolinian]

Perry, we often disagree on timeshare issues, but we have the same view of Wyndham, formerly Fairfield. You could not give me a timeshare at a resort run by these people. The war they conducted with their owners at Bluebeards Castle in the USVI should give everyone a wakeup call. They certainly earned the name unFairfield in that fiasco.

Fortunately, when Fairfield/Wyndham bought out Peppertree/Equivest, the two Peppertree resorts on the Outer Banks had homeowner-controlled HOA's and they promptly kicked out Fairfield/Wyndham as management.

There is a very good reason that Wyndham resales go for 5 cents on the dollar - Wyndham is at war with their owners. This is a knock-down, take no prisoners war by Wyndham against every Wyndham owner.

This war takes many forms but lying to owners is right up there at the top.

If Wyndham interferes with the normal usage of a deeded timeshare that's against many real estate laws I'd bet.

However, they can screw around with just about anything else that hasn't to do with the normal process of reserving a deeded week at the home resort. Points are not deeded weeks and thus Wyndham can mess with them anyway they want; I'll bet the fine print on the points agreement says so.

Maybe Wyndham will be the first timeshare company where resales are worth $0.00, or make history and worth NEGATIVE value - you, the owner, will gladly pay someone to take over the MFs.

The consequence of being at war with the owners is that resales look better and better to the informed resale buyer - the exact opposite result that Wyndham wanted. (This should not be a surprise when the sales folks wag the dog)

Unintended consequences isn't just limited to our federal government...

 

[Talent312]

He feels that 1. it's a good buy because he can pass it on to the children, and 2. he can rent out rooms he's booked and make money.

He is delusional, on both counts.

Also, he is afraid of Wyndham; he asked me not to post details, as he "doesn't want to get in trouble." In fact, his wife was yelling at him not to talk to me!

Its the Spanish Inquisition! Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again. -- Monte Python

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

 

[ausman]

I don't think there is any chance he'd rescind. He feels that 1. it's a good buy because he can pass it on to the children. and 2. he can rent out rooms he's booked and make money.

He probably has not looked at the points chart also, he won't be doing a lot of renting of National Harbor with 308K points.

If he were my friend, even though he may not follow the advise, I'd feel bad for not recommending it.

 

[carlbarry]

He probably has not looked at the points chart also, he won't be doing a lot of renting of National Harbor with 308K points.

If he were my friend, even though he may not follow the advise, I'd feel bad for not recommending it.

I don't think he actually wants to go to National Harbor. In fact, he really likes to travel once a year to Aruba, but has not been able to get reservations, due to the fact that apparently most places require a Saturday check-in, and he is Sabbath observant, and can not travel/check in on Saturday.

 

[zazz]

I have bought most of my timeshares and points on ebay and to my knowledge the resort NEVER knows how or where the resale occurs.

When I last stayed in Williamsburg, the salesweasel thought we were original owners of the points package and his paperwork reflected that. Maybe HQ has more information on the deed transfer, but I don't know there is any "red alert" that comes up on the screen that says "RESALE" when I call Wyndham to take care of anything.

 

[Talent312]

[H]e really likes to travel to the Caribbean and Virgin Islands, but has not been able to get reservations, due to the fact that apparently most places require a Saturday check-in, and he is Sabbath observant, and can not travel/check in on Saturday.

So, he's buying even more of this difficult situation. It boggles the mind.
IME, TS managers are are not particularly adept at tracking when or how particular person acquired their deed. In 2007, I bought a HGVC TS resale. They sent me a member card that says "member since 2001," the date of the orignal purchase, and their sales peep seem to think that's the case.

 

[carlbarry]

Well, I just spoke to my friend. He has until tomorrow to rescind, and has not yet received the paperwork he was promised. He realizes that he has made a mistake.

 

[ecwinch]

Well, I just spoke to my friend. He has until tomorrow to rescind, and has not yet received the paperwork he was promised. He realizes that he has made a mistake.

I do not know what "paperwork" you are referring to, but in most states the recession period does not start until you have received a copy of the public offering statement/report AND have signed the purchase contract.

If he has not received a complete copy of the required documents, his recession period may not have started yet. What state was he in when he signed the purchase contract?

Regardless, if still within the recession period now, he should exercise that option immediately. He can always re-do the deal if after doing all the needed research he decides to move forward. He should stop the ticking clock first though.

He is not "welching" on the deal. He is just exercising his contractual right to obtain more time to do his research. He just as easily can do that same deal in 30 days - regardless of what deal heat the sales guys are pumping.

 

[ecwinch]

Maybe Wyndham will be the first timeshare company where resales are worth $0.00, or make history and worth NEGATIVE value - you, the owner, will gladly pay someone to take over the MFs.

Perry - it has been awhile. I would suggest that you already have this point for a large number of WYN properties.

Perry, we often disagree on timeshare issues, but we have the same view of Wyndham, formerly Fairfield. You could not give me a timeshare at a resort run by these people. The war they conducted with their owners at Bluebeards Castle in the USVI should give everyone a wakeup call. They certainly earned the name unFairfield in that fiasco.

Fortunately, when Fairfield/Wyndham bought out Peppertree/Equivest, the two Peppertree resorts on the Outer Banks had homeowner-controlled HOA's and they promptly kicked out Fairfield/Wyndham as management.

I see this one differently but would like to hear some responses of those with first hand experiences. From the documents I have read, I think by and large the Bluebeards problem was more of Equivest's creating. Does WYN play hardball in court - absolutely? Did they play hardball with Bluebeards - absolutely.

But in the end they settled. I do not think it is an illustrative example of how WYN runs their resorts. It is an illustrative example of what they will do in a legal battle to protect their interests.

And while I understand things are improving at Bluebeards, even an independent BoD has not completely turned that situation around yet. An independent BoD does not guarantee a well-run resort.

 

[carlbarry]

I do not know what "paperwork" you are referring to, but in most states the recession period does not start until you have received a copy of the public offering statement/report AND have signed the purchase contract.

If he has not received a complete copy of the required documents, his recession period may not have started yet. What state was he in when he signed the purchase contract?

Regardless, if still within the recession period now, he should exercise that option immediately. He can always re-do the deal if after doing all the needed research he decides to move forward. He should stop the ticking clock first though.

He is not "welching" on the deal. He is just exercising his contractual right to obtain more time to do his research. He just as easily can do that same deal in 30 days - regardless of what deal heat the sales guys are pumping.

He purchased in New Jersey. And yes, as a lawyer, I do NOT understand how a recession period can end BEFORE the purchaser has seen all the papers!

 

[Patri]

I wouldn't take the chance. I'd get something in the mail tomorrow, and send another after the paperwork arrives.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I agree on MAIL IT TOMORROW. They will have 5 witnesses and signed forms that they got the paper work. Atlantic City (Skyline Tower) is one of the most aggressive TS sales crew around ... and with the casinos not doing as well, attendees must be down (or credit not as easy to get with who is sitting thru these presentations).

 

[Bill4728]

Even if your friend doesn't want to buy resale, it is not a good idea for him to buy any TS which upon buying it, the value of his purchase is reduced by 95%


RESCIND NOW!!

They (Wyndham) told him, "Let your friend buy all he wants. We are no longer honoring points purchased on ebay When he calls to use them, we will tell him we do not accept those points." !!!!!!!

Just wanted to make this perfectly clear to a newbie reading this thread. The about statement of the wyndham salesmen IS A LIE !

PS I just realized what the statement was about : Wyndham isn't talking about a week in Wyndham which generates points. They are talking about the rental/transfer of one owners points to another wyndham owner.

 

[ecwinch]

He purchased in New Jersey. And yes, as a lawyer, I do NOT understand how a recession period can end BEFORE the purchaser has seen all the papers!

In NJ, it is seven days from after receipt of the public offering statement or after execution of the purchase contract, whichever is later.

Typically a purchaser has to sign for the public offering statement.

Regardless, he should rescind now.

 

[John Cummings]

If Wyndham interferes with the normal usage of a deeded timeshare that's against many real estate laws I'd bet.

However, they can screw around with just about anything else that hasn't to do with the normal process of reserving a deeded week at the home resort.

From my experience that is not true. Wyndham certainly screwed around with the reserving of deeded weeks at one of the resorts I used to own. Wyndham took over the management of the resort 4 or 5 years ago. It is an all floating deeded weeks resort located on the Central California coast. I was an original owner from the day the resort opened over 20 years ago. All weeks were classified as "red" so you could reserve any week during the year.

Owners were allowed to reserve their week(s) 13 months in advance. I always reserved a prime summer week, typically July 4th. I never had any trouble getting what I wanted as long as I reserved at least 8 months in advance. The first year that Wyndham took over, I tried to reserve the July 4th week 12 months in advance and I couldn't get it. In fact I was lucky to get any prime summer week. The next year I called to reserve my week exactly the minute that I was allowed to 13 months in advance. Again there was no July 4th week available. I asked the reservations agent what was going on and why no weeks were available at the moment we were allowed to reserve. In fact I couldn't reserve any summer week. I kept calling back each week and after 4 weeks I was able to get a summer week. I asked again, why no weeks are available. The agent told me that only 2 weeks were released for reservations. Right then I knew that Wyndham was definitely playing games. All the units ( ~200 ) should be available each week when they become eligible to be reserved. Wyndham must have replaced the agents as they were very blunt and quite rude which was completely the opposite of the previous management company.
The net result is, I sold that timeshare later that year.

On the other hand, my other resort where I own, Gaslamp Plaza Suites, is also an all floating deeded weeks VRI resort in downtown San Diego. I have owned it since the day they opened several years ago. VRI has been great to work with. We can reserve any week we want up to 24 months in advance and we do NOT have to prepay the M/F. I have never had any trouble getting the July 4th week which I always use for exchanging. The agents are pleasant and helpful.

 

[timeos2]

Get him to recind now or he will regret it

I don't think he actually wants to go to National Harbor. In fact, he really likes to travel once a year to Aruba, but has not been able to get reservations, due to the fact that apparently most places require a Saturday check-in, and he is Sabbath observant, and can not travel/check in on Saturday.

He has purchased with a completely false set of assumptions (there is NO WAY that Wyndham can prohibit use or resale of points via eBay or anywhere else as that is the use rights granted to the system). He is paying 95% or more too much to obtain points. He is buying at the wrong resort UNLESS he only wants to use that one (then why buy points at all?). If he thinks about it the pluses - passing on to heirs, renting excess, etc - are all standard features of ownership and has nothing to do with resale vs ripoff, er, retail purchase.

He need to rescind TODAY or he will regret a very poor decision for years to come.

 

[carlbarry]

Well, I spoke to him yesterday, and I don't think he will rescind. He told me they "upped" the offer to a full year with no interest on the loan. Now, I don't know what kind of moral person sells a 10 year mortgage for a non-necessity to a 79 year old, but there you are. He realizes that there is a high probability (I'm sure we'd all set that at 100%) that he'll be ripped off, but he seems content with the deal if it goes through as he understands it.