[official 2017 vistana maintenance fee thread]

[YYJMSP]

*** Please post your maintenance fees in the database - click here: DATABASE





Thanks again, Nico, for providing this valuable service to Starwood owners!





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WKORV:



for a 2BR Deluxe L/O unit:



Maintenance Fee Details



Due Date - 01/04/2017



Current Year Charges



Maintenance Fee(s) - $ 3,121.50

Tax - If Applicable - $ 0.00

Membership Fee - If Applicable - $ 145.60

Other* - $ 0.00

Interest - $ 0.00

Late Fees - $ 0.00

One Ohana PAC Contribution** - $ 0.00



Sub-Total Current Year Charges - $ 3,267.10

Less Payments***- $ 0.00



Total Due - $ 3,267.10





2016 Maintenance Fee(s) were $3,121.30 so there is NO increase!







From the pages attached to the bill:



Extraordinary Projects (ADA-related and misc stuff) +$36.44

Utilities -$27.12 (due to renegotiated LPG contract)

Bad Debt Expense -$11.31

Housekeeping +$10.01 (due to normal occupancy levels now that renovations are complete)

Insurance Expense -$8.78 (reduction in property/terrorism coverage premium)

 

[LisaRex]

2016 Maintenance Fee(s) were $3,121.30 so there is NO increase!

Um, no. By your own admission, there was a $.20 increase.

Hey, that'll buy you 1/20th of a cup of coffee at WKORV.

P.S. Congratulations on stable MFs!

 

[PamMo]

2017 MF breakdown for WKORV 2BR LO:

Maintenance Fee(s) - $ 2,265.35
Tax - If Applicable - $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable - $ 145.60
One Ohana PAC Contribution** - $ 10.00
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges - $ 2,420.95
Total Due $ 2,420.95

Projected Fees for Next Year $ 2,410.95

 

[YYJMSP]

Um, no. By your own admission, there was a $.20 increase.





Hey, that'll buy you 1/20th of a cup of coffee at WKORV.





P.S. Congratulations on stable MFs!

I have to pay in CAD so "unchanged" is a moot point once I take currency exchange in to account.



Here's hoping for a swing in rates in the right direction and this is actually lower than last year from an out-of-pocket perspective...

 

[YYJMSP]

Wkorvn

For a 2BR LO EOY:

for a 2BR Deluxe L/O unit:

Maintenance Fee Details

Due Date - 01/04/2017

Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s) - $ 1,308.07
Tax - If Applicable - $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable - $ 46.80
Other* - $ 0.00
Interest - $ 0.00
Late Fees - $ 0.00
One Ohana PAC Contribution** - $ 0.00

Sub-Total Current Year Charges - $ 1,354.87
Less Payments***- $ 0.00

Total Due - $ 1,354.87


2016 Maintenance Fee(s) were $1,318.52, so almost a 1% decrease. I hope this is a trend for our other 6 VOIs.

 

[YYJMSP]

SVR Spas (proposed)

for a 2BR unit, proposed is:

MF - $589.36
Reserve - $169.11

for a total of $758.47. Does not include property taxes.

Past experience is that this is rubber-stamped through to the final bills...

Compared to a total of $744.63 last year, so a 1% increase

 

[YYJMSP]

SVR Cascades (proposed)

for a 2BR unit, proposed is:

MF - $784.48
Reserve - $219.56

for a total of $1,004.04. Does not include property taxes.

Past experience is that this is rubber-stamped through to the final bills...

Compared to a total of $978.20 last year, so a 2.6% increase, almost 3/4ths of which is an increase in the Reserve (looks like jumps in funds for building painting and unit furnishings, etc, sounds like a ramp-up for a refresh?)

 

[DavidnRobin]

It may be good to rename thread (remove WKORV...) - Denise?

 

[DavidnRobin]

2017 WKV 1Bd Premium (large) MF

2017 WKV 1Bd Premium (large) MF

Maintenance Fee: $882.72
Tax: $34.86
Total: $917.58

(2016 MF + Prop Tax: $863.18 + $31.44 = $894.62)
2.57% increase in Total

 

[DavidnRobin]

2017 WPORV 2Bd LO (EOY) MF

2017 WPORV 2Bd LO (EOY) MF

Maintenance Fee: $1,417.40

(2016 MF: $1378.48)
2.82% increase in MF

 

[okwiater]

2017 WKV 2-Bedroom Lockoff

$1437.98 + $56.79 property tax = $1494.77
(Last Year: $1406.15 + $52.71 property tax = $1458.86)

This is a 2.46% increase. (Thanks DnR for pointing out my initial error)

 

[DavidnRobin]

2017 WKV 2-Bedroom Lockoff

$1437.98 + $56.79 property tax = $1494.77
(Last Year: $1406.15 + $52.71 property tax = $1437.98)

This is a 3.9% increase. High but not catastrophic.

Hmmm - the MF portion has gone up 2.26% for all WKV villas (the same %increase as expected), but the Property Tax change accounts for the %increase disparity between the 1Bd (Prem) and 2Bd LO for the total amount of 2.57% vs. 3.9%???

Added - there is a math error in the 2016 WKV 2Bd LO total MF above - it should be $1458.86 - which is an increase of 2.46% (not 3.9%) - Friday afternoon math?

 

[jabberwocky]

Sdo 2br eoy

Just received the MF details for 2017 at our SDO unit. Looks like $586.35 is the magic number for this year. Details have been posted to database.

2016 was $576.49 so this is approx. 1.5% increase.

 

[okwiater]

Added - there is a math error in the 2016 WKV 2Bd LO total MF above - it should be $1458.86 - which is an increase of 2.46% (not 3.9%) - Friday afternoon math?

More like Friday afternoon copy-and-paste from the MF website

 

[DavidnRobin]

VSN Fee

I just noticed the VSN fee for 2017

$140 for single week
$185 for multi-week
(add HI tax for weeks for 1st and/or 2nd week owned in HI)

creep, creep, creep...
:annoyed:

 

[dioxide45]

I just noticed the VSN fee for 2017

$140 for single week
$185 for multi-week
(add HI tax for weeks for 1st and/or 2nd week owned in HI)

creep, creep, creep...
:annoyed:

Isn't that the same as it was for 2016?

 

[DavidnRobin]

Um, no. By your own admission, there was a $.20 increase.

Hey, that'll buy you 1/20th of a cup of coffee at WKORV.

P.S. Congratulations on stable MFs!

I was curious - so... let's play a guessing game...
(without looking)

For the following WVC resorts between the years 2012 and 2017:
WSJ-VGV
WKORV
WKORVN
WPORV
WKV

Which had the largest and smallest %MF increase?
{2017 WLR not posted yet, but wouldn't matter}
I was surprised

 

[bizaro86]

My guess is VGV had the lowest increase, and WKV had the highest.

My reasons are cynical.

VGV was already high, and has an off season. That limits how much extra profit Vistana can take out of the HOAs before they start getting too many weaks back. Plus, they got actual owner representation during that time, so oversight has gotten better.

I think WKV is the highest increase, since it started low they'll get less complaints and units back if they add some padding for extra profit.

Vistana makes approx $439 in profit on average per week from the management side, so you know thw higher end Westin properties must be sending at least 600 per week in profits, since some of the Sheraton units couldn't support $400 in profits given what the fees are.

Source calculation: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1797899&postcount=106

 

[DavidnRobin]

We have a winner!!! If pre-2012 MF for WSJ-VGV were used it would be a huge decrease. 2Bd TH hit $2800 at one point - now $2310. But very consistent since remodel - been hovering around $2400 while others have crept up.

WKORV 2Bd LO Deluxe has had the most $ increase (by far) - I'll take the WKV %MF increase anyday.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Isn't that the same as it was for 2016?

Looks like you're right - guess it just feels that way since I use my HomeResort weeks.

 

[krj9999]

Think you need to revisit your calculations. I'm seeing $25 million in profit for resort mgmt./ops. not $29 ($9 for mgmt. and $16 for ops/ancillary).

Vistana makes approx $439 in profit on average per week from the management side, so you know thw higher end Westin properties must be sending at least 600 per week in profits, since some of the Sheraton units couldn't support $400 in profits given what the fees are.

Source calculation: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1797899&postcount=106

Ops/ancillary revenue/costs were further described as well.

Resort operations

We generate revenue from rentals of vacation ownership inventory. Conversion of VOI occupancy rights into Starpoints provides us with available inventory to rent through Starwood’s distribution system and our own direct sales activities. Historically, transient rentals at our resorts provide us with room revenue, ancillary spend on food and services at our resorts and a marketing source for new owners. Rental expenses include maintenance fees on unsold inventory, costs to provide alternate usage rights, including conversion into Starpoints for owners that elect to exchange their occupancy rights, subsidy payments to property owner associations at resorts that are in the early phases of construction where maintenance fees collected from the owners are not sufficient to support operating costs of the resort and marketing costs and direct operating and related expenses in connection with the rental business (e.g., housekeeping, credit card expenses and reservation services).

Ancillary services

We provide food and beverage, retail, golf, spa and other services to our owners, guests and customers and earn fees and other revenues typically associated with these activities and experiences.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I was curious - so... let's play a guessing game...
(without looking)

For the following WVC resorts between the years 2012 and 2017:
WSJ-VGV
WKORV
WKORVN
WPORV
WKV

Which had the largest and smallest %MF increase?
{2017 WLR not posted yet, but wouldn't matter}
I was surprised

%MF change from 2012 to 2017
WSJ-VGV: -5.7%
WKORVN: 9.9%
WKORV: 10.5%
WPORV: 13.1%
WKV: 15.9%

WLR will be ~9% but 2017 MF not available yet (8.8% from 2012 to 2016)

 

[Scott&Laura]

For you accountants out their


What is the % of expenses vs total revenue

What is the % management cost vs total revenue

What expenses are or should be attributed to Vistana management and what % attributed to reselling or selling properties.

What % are our fixed costs?

What % are taxes as I cant find delineated?


What is Cost per room rented at each property and also cost of management for each property?

We have interest income so what is our reserves retained for rainy day or Hurricane versus what should we have set aside?

Are their special assessments in future or are we with present assessments very well covered?


Scott

 

[DavidnRobin]

Scott - this is MF thread, but which resort are you referring as some of these are resort specific.
The balance sheet for a particular resort has some of this info - other info is unknown (speculative). I am not an accountant - and do not care really. I base my usage on price I pay vs. vacation value I get.
WKV>WKORV OFD>WSJ-VGV>WPORV

WSJ-VGV has the most transparency when it comes to financing.

 

[DavidnRobin]

It may be good to rename thread (remove WKORV...) - Denise?

Thanks Mod.