Notice of Intent to File Lien - Does this Mean It Will Be Judicial?

[DrQ]

Here is another suggestion:

You can get a free credit report from the major credit reporting agencies annually:

Annual Credit Report.com - Home Page

ACR Home Page

www.annualcreditreport.com

Have your parents pick one every 4 months and you can see if the HOA is going to report the delinquency. They may or may not.

Most people go through life without have to deal with the legal process. A certified letter is worrisome, but when you have a sheriff's deputy at the front door acting as a process server, that can be a heart attack in the making if you are not prepared. This is not likely, but could be a possibility.

The business model of Orange Lake is to sell timeshare intervals, not to extract delinquent payments from retirees. The foreclosure accomplishes this.

Even if they want to recover the damages, they would have to:

• Locate all the documents of the original contract
• Document the delinquency and debt collection process
• Draw up the lawsuit in accordance with the laws applicable in your parents locality
• Find a local rent-a-lawyer to file the suit in the county of your parents locale
  • Hire a process server to serve the petition
  • Schedule court case

The rent-a-lawyer will probably take the lion's share of any settlement of a $5K - $6K range. A debt collection firm does this on the scale of tens of thousands, the HOA does this on a onesie and twosie basis, there is no volume. The volume is selling timeshares. That's just my analysis.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, nor am I giving legal advice, but if it were me, I would not lose sleep until there is a knock at the door from a process server and if there is, it's not the end of the world.

 

[davidvel]

Non-judicial is not the same as non-recourse. Non-judicial means the court is not involved, such as a foreclosure on a trust deed securing a loan. In this case, the trustee on the deed can foreclose on the loan and transfer the deed to an auction buyer or loan holder without any court intervention. Usually this also equates to non-recourse, but not always.

Non-recourse means the person foreclosing (lender or HOA for MF) cannot pursue any damages for balance owed beyond the property itself.

You can have one with or without the other depending on the laws of the state and contract terms.

 

[pissedoffguy]

Here is another suggestion:

You can get a free credit report from the major credit reporting agencies annually:

Annual Credit Report.com - Home Page

ACR Home Page

www.annualcreditreport.com

Have your parents pick one every 4 months and you can see if the HOA is going to report the delinquency. They may or may not.

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely get that and check it frequently.

Most people go through life without have to deal with the legal process. A certified letter is worrisome, but when you have a sheriff's deputy at the front door acting as a process server, that can be a heart attack in the making if you are not prepared. This is not likely, but could be a possibility.

Yeah, this is definitely nerve racking. My father has been really sick (which is why they started having problems paying to begin with) and will likely not be alive at this time next year. It would be terrible if he spent his last year stressing out about this.

The business model of Orange Lake is to sell timeshare intervals, not to extract delinquent payments from retirees. The foreclosure accomplishes this.

Even if they want to recover the damages, they would have to:

• Locate all the documents of the original contract
• Document the delinquency and debt collection process
• Draw up the lawsuit in accordance with the laws applicable in your parents locality
• Find a local rent-a-lawyer to file the suit in the county of your parents locale
  • Hire a process server to serve the petition
  • Schedule court case

The rent-a-lawyer will probably take the lion's share of any settlement of a $5K - $6K range. A debt collection firm does this on the scale of tens of thousands, the HOA does this on a onesie and twosie basis, there is no volume. The volume is selling timeshares. That's just my analysis.

That makes a lot of sense!

And, yeah, my mother is in the process of getting consumer debt attorney references from some of her friends based on your valuable advice. We decided that she'll have a consultation with someone and present the issue, but will not do anything until there is some evidence of an actual lawsuit (just in case they decide to go non-judicial).

I know I'm overdoing this, but I just have to say thank you again! It's been very difficult to get any specific advice or a direction to go with all of this. The information that you've provided has been absolutely phenomenal!

Again, I'm not a lawyer, nor am I giving legal advice, but if it were me, I would not lose sleep until there is a knock at the door from a process server and if there is, it's not the end of the world.

Very true.

Non-judicial is not the same as non-recourse. Non-judicial means the court is not involved, such as a foreclosure on a trust deed securing a loan. In this case, the trustee on the deed can foreclose on the loan and transfer the deed to an auction buyer or loan holder without any court intervention. Usually this also equates to non-recourse, but not always.

Non-recourse means the person foreclosing (lender or HOA for MF) cannot pursue any damages for balance owed beyond the property itself.

You can have one with or without the other depending on the laws of the state and contract terms.

My understanding is that, in Florida, a non-judicial foreclosure cannot result in a deficiency judgment. Is that incorrect? That was my interpretation of some of the statutes.

 

[davidvel]

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely get that and check it frequently.



Yeah, this is definitely nerve racking. My father has been really sick (which is why they started having problems paying to begin with) and will likely not be alive at this time next year. It would be terrible if he spent his last year stressing out about this.



That makes a lot of sense!

And, yeah, my mother is in the process of getting consumer debt attorney references from some of her friends based on your valuable advice. We decided that she'll have a consultation with someone and present the issue, but will not do anything until there is some evidence of an actual lawsuit (just in case they decide to go non-judicial).

I know I'm overdoing this, but I just have to say thank you again! It's been very difficult to get any specific advice or a direction to go with all of this. The information that you've provided has been absolutely phenomenal!



Very true.



My understanding is that, in Florida, a non-judicial foreclosure cannot result in a deficiency judgment. Is that incorrect? That was my interpretation of some of the statutes.

I don't know. You would have to consult with a Florida real estate attorney, not randoms on a timeshare bulletin board to be sure.

 

[DrQ]

I don't know. You would have to consult with a Florida real estate attorney, not randoms on a timeshare bulletin board to be sure.

IDK if you need a real estate attorney, but a good debt attorney would be my choice practicing out of Kissimmee FL(or Orange county). You are still within the 45 day window of July 11th before they take any action in court. They can monitor the county clerk on your behalf or possibly contact the HOA prior to the deadline to negotiate.

You don't want this timeshare, so get the attorney on board and ready to answer the HOA filing. They can see if the HOA is filing for damages as part of the filing. If they are going to play hard, your attorney can request under discovery the original contract with signatures as well as other records.

Your attorney can propose a counter offer, deed in lieu, reduced settlement, payment over time etc. If they know that they are in for a fight, they usually become "reasonable".

 

[DrQ]

Also, pay attention to the bottom of the letter. They are triggering language for the Fair Debt Collection Act.

You have 30 days to dispute the debt in writing and they have to respond.

What information does a debt collector have to give me about a debt they’re trying to collect from me? | Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

In nearly all cases, debt collectors are legally required to provide you with certain information about the debt when or soon after they contact you.

www.consumerfinance.gov

Also, if you send the debt collector the written verification request or request for information about the original creditor within this 30-day period, the debt collector must pause collecting the amount of the debt you are disputing until they’ve adequately responded to your request.​

USE this law. Use certified mail, return receipt on all correspondence.

Use This Letter to Dispute a Debt Collection You're Unsure Of

Writing a debt validation letter can keep you from paying a bogus debt collection. Here's a sample template you can use to request debt validation.

www.thebalancemoney.com

This may make a deed in lieu more attractive.

You can go to Credit Boards to get more specific advice on how the debt collection process works:

https://creditboards.com/forums/

 

[pissedoffguy]

IDK if you need a real estate attorney, but a good debt attorney would be my choice practicing out of Kissimmee FL(or Orange county). You are still within the 45 day window of July 11th before they take any action in court. They can monitor the county clerk on your behalf or possibly contact the HOA prior to the deadline to negotiate.

You don't want this timeshare, so get the attorney on board and ready to answer the HOA filing. They can see if the HOA is filing for damages as part of the filing. If they are going to play hard, your attorney can request under discovery the original contract with signatures as well as other records.

Your attorney can propose a counter offer, deed in lieu, reduced settlement, payment over time etc. If they know that they are in for a fight, they usually become "reasonable".

Unfortunately, we don't know anyone in Florida. My parents are hesitant about just hiring an attorney based on online reviews or anything like that. They also think that, even if we somehow find a legitimate attorney, they would end up paying any difference in the settlement to that lawyer.

They did get a referral to a consumer debt attorney in their state. So they want to meet up with him first just to get a better understanding of the process in general. They also want to see if that attorney knows anyone in Florida. Guess we'll see what happens with that.

Also, pay attention to the bottom of the letter. They are triggering language for the Fair Debt Collection Act.

You have 30 days to dispute the debt in writing and they have to respond.

What information does a debt collector have to give me about a debt they’re trying to collect from me? | Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

In nearly all cases, debt collectors are legally required to provide you with certain information about the debt when or soon after they contact you.

www.consumerfinance.gov

Also, if you send the debt collector the written verification request or request for information about the original creditor within this 30-day period, the debt collector must pause collecting the amount of the debt you are disputing until they’ve adequately responded to your request.​

USE this law. Use certified mail, return receipt on all correspondence.

Use This Letter to Dispute a Debt Collection You're Unsure Of

Writing a debt validation letter can keep you from paying a bogus debt collection. Here's a sample template you can use to request debt validation.

www.thebalancemoney.com

This may make a deed in lieu more attractive.

You can go to Credit Boards to get more specific advice on how the debt collection process works:

https://creditboards.com/forums/

Thanks for the suggestion.

Why would this method make a deed in lieu more attractive?

 

[DrQ]

They did get a referral to a consumer debt attorney in their state. So they want to meet up with him first just to get a better understanding of the process in general. They also want to see if that attorney knows anyone in Florida. Guess we'll see what happens with that.

After rereading the letter, there is a possibility of them being named in a suit in Florida. If that is the case, they will need "boots on the ground". If your local attorney is stand-up, they should advise whether they can handle it remotely or if someone should have a more direct hand.

Why would this method make a deed in lieu more attractive?

If the HOA is going to name your parents in a lawsuit with damages, and the attorney can determine this, then you want to play "puffer fish" and make the meal seem unattractive. If they have to answer discovery requests and dig up old documents in response to a defense, they may just take a deed in lieu.

Many times, plaintiffs will "swing for the fences" in their suit as far as damages in hopes of a default judgment. If there is a defense, they may have to dig up old records and answer other defense requests, they may be open to negotiation.

 

[pissedoffguy]

After rereading the letter, there is a possibility of them being named in a suit in Florida. If that is the case, they will need "boots on the ground". If your local attorney is stand-up, they should advise whether they can handle it remotely or if someone should have a more direct hand.


If the HOA is going to name your parents in a lawsuit with damages, and the attorney can determine this, then you want to play "puffer fish" and make the meal seem unattractive. If they have to answer discovery requests and dig up old documents in response to a defense, they may just take a deed in lieu.

Many times, plaintiffs will "swing for the fences" in their suit as far as damages in hopes of a default judgment. If there is a defense, they may have to dig up old records and answer other defense requests, they may be open to negotiation.

Thank you!

One final question: any tips on how to find a legitimate local attorney when you don't live in or know anyone in an area? After being screwed by that one scam attorney (who is registered with the Bar in my parents' state and has good reviews online), we're a little gun shy about hiring random attorneys off the internet.

 

[DrQ]

Thank you!

One final question: any tips on how to find a legitimate local attorney when you don't live in or know anyone in an area? After being screwed by that one scam attorney (who is registered with the Bar in my parents' state and has good reviews online), we're a little gun shy about hiring random attorneys off the internet.

Just like timeshare relief scams, you want to avoid anybody pushing a "program" that you would join. Understand that the debt relief and credit repair industry is just as bad or worse as the timeshare relief industry.

I gave you a link to the Credit Boards forums. Join it. Post your issue there and get their take.

Here is another excellent resource I would join too:

Credit InfoCenter Forums

www.creditinfocenter.com

I have seen attorneys respond to questions on Credit Info Center for recommendations, but it has been years since I have been on either board.

Much of their advice may be for a Pro Se (defend yourself) defense, but since you are facing an Original Creditor (OC), I would strongly not advise that. There are attorneys that do participate on the forum that are better in making these types of recommendations.

If it were me, I would be looking for an office with several lawyers that has a well rounded practice of several specialties. Ask friends who have lawyers in the family and ask them who they would hire if they were in this situation. While they are not going to bad-mouth somebody, they probably won't steer a friend to a questionable resource.

When you vet attorneys, you need to interview them. Ask them questions on how they will approach the issue:

• Florida foreclosure laws
• Not being a member of the bar in FL
• Dealing with Orange County courts from another state
• Experience
• ...

Have them outline their overall plan and estimated costs.

 

[DrQ]

Do you have any updates?