No Smoking At Marriott Grande Vista [Merged threads]

[Dean]

I would not be as upset if Grand Vista allowed smoking on the decks, but now they will not allow that either. I can understand Marriott's' position on their hotel chains as everyone has a choice to stay or not stay at their property. It is different when you purchase the property and own the deed for several years and then the rules change

Given the climate in FL don't be surprised if they ban smoking on the property at some point. Many businesses in FL have already done so.

 

[rsackett]

I call Horizons in Orlando today and asked about their smoking policy. Horizons is also 100% Non-Smoking. For me it is a good thing.

 

[sox21]

No Smoking...

I applaud Marriott and any business that steers in this direction. There is nothing worse than entering your room for vacation and it smells like an ashtray. If a smoker checks into a non-smoking room what is the worst thing they deal with? A room that smells clean? A habit that effects others health needs to be controlled.

 

[JimG]

I personally find the smell of people who eat garlic or curry disgusting, they should be banned as well.

 

[ondeadlin]

I personally find the smell of people who eat garlic or curry disgusting, they should be banned as well.

Timeshares and condos are essentially democracies. If you really believe you can organize folks against garlic and curry, give it a go and see if you can get it banned from the MVCI kitchens.

 

[rsackett]

I personally find the smell of people who eat garlic or curry disgusting, they should be banned as well.

I thought the most recent studies showed health benefits from garlic? I think smoke is a different issue.

But seriously; I do not remember a rental room ever having an overpowering smell of garlic or curry. I can not say that about smoke. Many people have allergies to smoke. I have a dog who is part of the family, but I do understand that not all people would want to stay in a room that had a pet in it due to allergies, as well as the extra maintenance fees that would result.

 

[JimG]

"Timeshares and condos are essentially democracies"

And here you have hit the nail on the head, what has happened to the OP is not democratic it is DICTATORSHIP!

The OP bought into the system believing that there were designated smoking / non-smoking appartments; the HOA have unilaterally and without recourse to the OWNERS changed the rules, which is going to significantly impact upon his vacation. (Especially the no smoking on the verranda bit, which is draconian)

Whether one's personal predjudices should be allowed to dictate to other people is a subject of debate. I made the (flippant) point about garlic & curry to illustrate how these things could develop, after all what's next ethniticity?

Whilst I know DaveM has his view, in my opinion if a dramatic change, (which I consider this to be), is implemented then MVCI have a duty to offer to buy back the week(s) as a minimum.

And as for the HOA being able to change rules ad hoc at their whim, can I ask, is it not the OWNERS that employ the HOA and not the other way round?

 

[JMSH]

I would suggest that HOA's represent the owners of the complex and hence they make decesions in the best interest of the complex and not necessarily what is in the best interest or the personal interest of an individual. I would suggest again that personal agendas should be put aside when you are a member of a HOA and again make decesions in the overall best interest of the complex.

 

[Stefa]

Whether one's personal predjudices should be allowed to dictate to other people is a subject of debate. I made the (flippant) point about garlic & curry to illustrate how these things could develop, after all what's next ethniticity?

This isn't an issue of personal predjudice. It's an issue of resorts not wanting to deal with the expense and/or inconvenience of allowing smoking.

 

[ondeadlin]

"Timeshares and condos are essentially democracies"

And here you have hit the nail on the head, what has happened to the OP is not democratic it is DICTATORSHIP!

No, Jim, the HOA is voted into position by the owners.

Their action reflects the will of the owners.

Your position is absolutely illogical. It would be like saying, "When I bought this timeshare, the fees were $600 annually and they should never change!"

The rules and fees are not set in stone when you purchase a timeshare (or a full-ownership condo, for that matter).

If you feel so strongly, try launching an effort to get elected to the board on a pro-smoking platform. Of course, you'd get laughed out of the building, but at least then you'd know for sure that this action wasn't that of a dictatorship, but one that reflected the desires of the overwhelming majority of your fellow owners.

 

[beanie]

I agree with jim

put the smoking issue aside. what if it was something else and it will be something else. why don't we vote on these issues ? I agree that smoking damages units and is in our best interest to not allow in the units. why I didn't smoke in my own house but I did smoke on my lanai . let my Hoa at home here try to tell people they couldn't smoke on their own lanais , they would be laughed out of the meetings. Lets see how many of you applauders there would be if they started outlawing other things such as the alcohol thing I brought up and the garlic - curry thing jim brought up. because there will be something else. no matter how much moderation you think you have . I just think that the OP's point is valid even though dave explained that we are at marriotts mercy because of the papers we signed so they really have no recourse. I just can't wait to see what's next because if you told me 20 yrs ago that smoking would not be allowed in as many places as it is I would of thought you nuts , not that I disagree with most of it but just can't wait to see what is next . I'm hoping nothing :ignore:

 

[ondeadlin]

Homeowners associations have banned owners from smoking in their own homes (and, yes, balconies) - and had the ban upheld by a judge -- in Golden, Co.:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/10336501/detail.html

And, again, it's the will of the other owners. If you don't like it, you have choices. You can organize a compeating slate of HOA candidates or you can sell your unit/condo.

It wouldn't surprise me if smoking is banned in all public places within the next 10 years. It's just become absolutely socially unacceptable to the majority of American society. I realize it's a different story in Europe, etc., but that's a cultural difference and cultural differences will always exist.

 

[Dave M]

why don't we vote on these issues ?

We don't get to individually vote on these issues because the legal documents for each resort specify which issues must be voted on by the owners. Other issues (such as this one) not specified as belonging to the owners for a vote are decided upon by the HOA Board of Directors.

A good analogy is our system of government in the U.S. We elect people to represent us. Those representatives at the local, state and national level vote among themselves to enact laws (such as banning smoking in public places) that we don't individually get to vote on. If we don't like the laws or the way they are enforced, we can try to get others elected or run for office ourselves - the same as with a timeshare HOA.

And for Jim, my analogy applies to your post. When we don't get to vote on every governmental issue, that doesn't make our U.S. society a dictatorship. The same applies to timeshare ownership in a mature timeshare resort. We have a democracy in the timeshare and can vote to elect other directors to represent us.

During the first few years, while the developer is selling timeshares, it is a dictatorship. The developer has total control to act within the limitations outlined in the resort's legal documents. Fortunately, we are all provided with a copy of those legal documents and have a chance to read them. We can decide not to purchase (or decide to cancel during the recision period) if we don't want to be subject to that temporary dictatorship. But if we buy, we are agreeing to be bound by those legal documents, which give the HOA (controlled by the developer in the early years) the right to change the rules.

As is the case with this issue, the rules makers make a sincere effort to make appropriate rules, taking into account and balancing the relative cost or savings that the rule will have and the perceived preferences of the majority. No matter what the rule, not everyone will be happy with it.

 

[JimG]

Thanks beanie, at least there's one person who can see what I was driving at without being blinded by the smog of the smoking issue.

 

[rsackett]

I just recieved a letter from Manor Club stating that thae are 100% Non-Smoking.

 

[captbob]

Ocean Point Non Smoking

Ocean Point just sent notice that it too will be non-smoking in all units and all balconies as on November 2007. There will be some areas outdoors set aside for smokers. The change now looks inevitable.

 

[Dean]

Surfwatch did not go all NO initially. They have smoking floors but put a note in the unit asking you to only smoke on the balcony.

 

[fdfirm]

Investigation

[ Message deleted. Advertising or otherwise soliciting business on these forums is not permitted. Dave M, BBS Moderator]

 

[jimf41]

I'm an owner at OP and unfortunately a smoker. There's been a lot of talk on the OP newsgroup about the new policy and tempers rise on both sides when the issue is discussed. Lets look at some basic facts. First most smokers are very inconsiderate of those who don't. We trash the entrances of most buildings with our discarded butts. We burn holes in anything you can burn holes in. We don't care how much the price is or how much municipalities gouge us with tobacco taxes we still buy them. If we're sitting by the pool next to a family with three small kids downwind we'll just light up merrily instead of walking 10' to a spot where it wouldn't bother anyone. The beach is our personal ashtray. Do you wonder why some folks are so vocal about your habit? My grandson Max is coming down here tomorrow and his kids fortunately will probably grow up in a United States where the purchase or possesion of tobacco products is illegal. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

All that said lets look at ther reality of a smoking ban. If you smoke in your room at an owner resort they've got you for a cleanup fee. But some folks seem to think this is a fine. It's not, only a municipality can fine you. That brings up an interesting question which the lawfirm that preceded my post is going to pursue. If you're on your balcony there is no clean up involved therefore no cleanup fee. What would the penalty be. Smoking in an outside location is permitted under Florida law so who is going to enforce it? I think OP went to far when they voted to ban smoking in outside locations including balconies. Time will tell and I'll be here next November when the rule goes into effect. I'm sure there will be fireworks on both sides. As for me I'm going to give quitting a go again this summer. Smoking is starting to ruin my reputation.

 

[Dean]

I'm an owner at OP and unfortunately a smoker. There's been a lot of talk on the OP newsgroup about the new policy and tempers rise on both sides when the issue is discussed. Lets look at some basic facts. First most smokers are very inconsiderate of those who don't. We trash the entrances of most buildings with our discarded butts. We burn holes in anything you can burn holes in. We don't care how much the price is or how much municipalities gouge us with tobacco taxes we still buy them. If we're sitting by the pool next to a family with three small kids downwind we'll just light up merrily instead of walking 10' to a spot where it wouldn't bother anyone. The beach is our personal ashtray. Do you wonder why some folks are so vocal about your habit? My grandson Max is coming down here tomorrow and his kids fortunately will probably grow up in a United States where the purchase or possesion of tobacco products is illegal. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

All that said lets look at ther reality of a smoking ban. If you smoke in your room at an owner resort they've got you for a cleanup fee. But some folks seem to think this is a fine. It's not, only a municipality can fine you. That brings up an interesting question which the lawfirm that preceded my post is going to pursue. If you're on your balcony there is no clean up involved therefore no cleanup fee. What would the penalty be. Smoking in an outside location is permitted under Florida law so who is going to enforce it? I think OP went to far when they voted to ban smoking in outside locations including balconies. Time will tell and I'll be here next November when the rule goes into effect. I'm sure there will be fireworks on both sides. As for me I'm going to give quitting a go again this summer. Smoking is starting to ruin my reputation.

I would agree with much of your post. Actually I think many smokers are considerate but like anything else the bad apples spoil it for everyone. I would disagree with the idea that only a government entity can fine you. Any group you belong to can fine you if they want. You then decide whether to pay. Their only wheapon is to ban you from the group or to with hold any benefits they hold such as money for sports athlete's. With timeshares you would then lose use of your timeshare options and by default, exchange company. I would also disagree with the idea that you can legally smoke anywhere outside in FL. Some timeshares that ban smoking do so on the balcony also, Disney just announced this ban that oly permits smoking in designated areas. Many businesses in FL have also banned smoking on their premises, sometimes providing designated smoking areas, many times not. Some are not hiring smokers going forward.

 

[PerryM]

We need "Lawyer Seeking Work - Free" posts

[Quoted text deleted. See explanation below. DM]

A shameless attempt at trolling for business. This is a plug for more litigation which we all know we, the owners, will be paying for and the lawyers make out like bandits.

But heck, I saw where a judge filed a $65 M lawsuit against a dry cleaner who had misplaced his pants - they fould them 2 days later. The entire 18th century US legal system needs a visit from the roto-rooter man.

 

[Scott_Ru]

Just out of curiosity, when did this "total" ban at Grande Vista take effect? I was just there for a month, ending in March. And at that time there were still buildings available for smokers.

(But I'll always choose a non-smoking bldg. if it's offered! ... On the other hand, my two sons smoke and it would be hard for them. A thorny issue.)

 

[Rhody51]

Smoking

Being an owner at Grande Vista, my husband is a smoker, when we bought
it was allowed. He smokes on the balcony only, I feel that should still be
an option. We would not have purchased this property if it was non smoking only. Changing the rules after the sale to me is unfair, I will be voiceing my
concerns, I will not be buying another Marriott timeshare for this reason.

 

[pharmgirl]

we also feel totally ripped off, bought a KoOlina Oean view just half a year befor they cahnged to non smoking.
this is NOT like a hotel where you can just go to another, we now own a large cost unit that my hubby says he no longer wants to go to

Called them up, wrote a letter and no real help - offered us a use of a free cabana for the week - what a joke.
But it really is not a joke they really should have told us this was coming and we would have made a different decision

 

[Beverley]

I am a non smoker. That being said, I get concerned about how far we take "prohibition" in this country. Outside balconies should be allowed for people to smoke IMHO, even if the people next door (this could be me as well) can smell it.

Inside the units no ... the costs of cleaning and replacing soft goods earlier affects our mantenence fees and I do not feel non smokers should pay for smoker's habits.

Beverley