No Availability At Harborside

[James1975NY]

James - How do you know what is more likely?

How do you know WSJ owners are using... all of them?

I know you worked at Starwood, but do you have the data to back it up?

If they can (contractually) book prime inventory at prime resorts based on (anticipated) StarPoint conversions elsewhere they why wouldn't they do it? It makes financial sense for them...

It also explains why owners at HRA can't float in their season at 10 months out because I doubt that even 70% of people go or rent their week year after year... people want to go to Europe or Australia sometimes, they may want to go in July vs. August other times, or they simply forget to call, which probably happens more often than one would suspect...

I am not currently in posession of data as I am not employed with SVO and have not been for a couple years. Nor did I say that 100% of the owners are using at HRA or WSJ all of the time.

Do not doubt for a second that owners are not securing their weeks at HRA in advance phase I or II. The ones that are not (which is going to be far less than 30%) are likely to be new and have not been exposed to TUG or other helpful forums where timeshare owners are getting excellent help on using their weeks effectively.

 

[James1975NY]

Now this is all starting to make sense--we have friends who own 6 weeks at WSJ and have been basically been told if you don't use your week you won't be able to get another week there. My friends that own there now can't use them all--they own 6--so they rent them.
I guess I would also like to hear from others who have tried to float in their own season and just try for a regular week--not a prime one like President's day or July 4th.
I know I own a week 52 at Harborside and I call and always reserve it because I rent it out for top dollar if I am not going to use it--that one week more than covers maintenance fees for both weeks I own.

This is very typical of HRA and WSJ owners that have fixed weeks. Even phase II at HRA and the Bay Vista owners at WSJ that have straight float weeks WILL reserve in advance and WILL call at 12 months.

The ones that do not, well, it is very likely that it will be the last time they do not call at 12 months.

 

[Transit]

This is how timeshare salespeople get you to buy a low-season week and/or a less desirable location. They tell you how you can trade up to great places like HRA, WSJ or Hawaii without having to pay the high costs of ownership.
Correct
Of course logic should tell you that everyone who owns in Orlando can't get into HRA, but people get caught up in the deal and sign up for a timeshare they really don't want.

Not just Orlando but any other SVN resort.The difficulty remains also because this is one of the best resorts in any timeshare system IMHO.

 

[DanCali]

Here on TUG we get a bit of a distorted view of why people buy timeshares....only a small proportion do so to trade. Most people want to return to their specific resort every year....I know I do. I have no interest in Palm Springs, Orlando, or Myrtle Beach. I bought to be associated with one of the worlds best mega-resorts (Atlantis). As did most Harborside owners.

I think you may be overextrapolating based on your experience.

I don't think most people necessarily want to return to the same resort every year. Even if they do, most people do not "buy where they want to go". If you think about developer purchases, people end up buying in the place where they happened to vacation. If you were in Orlando, they will not sell you a Hawaii property and vice versa. They won't even tell you that they have a direct sales department (they actually lied to me and tol'd me they don't...). What they will sell you on is that you can "prepay" you vacations for life and come to this place every year. But even if you get tired of that (because most people will ask "what happens if I don't want to go there every year"), they will tell you that you can go to fabulous destinations all over the world (including HRA, WSJ) either via StarOptions or StarPoints or II.

People don't always do what you think makes the most sense. For example, we think it is logical to never convert to StarPoints, but plenty of people apparently do and even comment about this on TUG so at least they are aware it's not considered good "value". We also think it makes sense to confirm your HRA deeded week on time... I'm sure plenty of people don't because they forget or simply want to go elsewhere once in a while. I live in California and love to go to Hawaii... it is a great place and convenient to get to from here. But I also have kids and like to go to Orlando, and we also like Europe. If I only take 2 weeks off every year, I may not want to go to Hawaii every year...

You may also think that if you want to go to Orlando you rent your HRA to someone and rent Orlando from someone else. Most average owners probably don't think that way....Many people probably don't want to deal with renting their place - it can be a hassle... I'm also pretty sure that many don't want to rent from others due to trust issues. The most convenient (not the most cost effective) thing for an HRA owner who doesn't want to to to HRA every year is to exchange. It is, after all, one of the "perks" of SVN.

Obviously a lot of speculation here - some of it based on how I personally feel.But there are thousands of owners weeks (10,000?) at HRA. I find it hard to believe they all return year after year even if the property is great...

 

[DeniseM]

The end result of all this, we have been sold a bill of goods and as timeshare owners within their system they are not delivering. I really don't care about what they do or don't do.

One point that you don't want to overlook is that you MUST call at 8 mos. if you expect to get a high demand resort. If you continue to call past the 8 mo. mark, and you are trying to get a reservation at a popular resort, you are going to continue to be disappointed.

 

[Fredm]

It was not very long ago that Starwood owners were singing the virtues of internal exchange. Even to the point of disparaging the Marriott system (likely the best performing internal exchange for its owners) by comparison.

Mind you, the Marriott system allows an owner to deposit with I.I. exactly what is reserved. Then provides a 23 day exclusive to other Marriott owners. And, immediately at the 12 month window.
In so doing, every owner is assured that no one but them lays a hand on inventory.

Oh!, I almost forgot. There is no owner reservation period after which an owner must absurdly compete with exchangers for a home resort reservation. To me, that is the MOST offensive aspect of the entire debacle.

Pretty refreshing, by comparison.

 

[Fredm]

The end result of all this, we have been sold a bill of goods and as timeshare owners within their system they are not delivering. I really don't care about what they do or don't do. I have 296,000 staroptions to use every year, and luckily I have no little kids to worry about. I can travel pretty much all year. When I go to the reservationist, and say give me what ever week is available, in 1 BR, or premium or a 2 BR, and they say there is no availability all year, which is the case, something is not right.

I understand your attitude, completely.

While it is ALWAYS best to request an exchange at the earliest possible time, these details are often omitted from a sales presentation.

Yes, it is wise to dissect all the documents. Almost no one does, and those that do, don't understand what they mean.

First time buyers rely on the good name of the brand being purchased. Unfortunately, the most common source of owner dissatisfaction is a sales presentation (from any system) that represents the hypothetically possible as routinely doable.
The gap between the two can be so large, that it is a lie by another name.

 

[mariawolf]

So this really has me thinking now...........I had always assumed platinum owners at Harborside always used or rented their weeks which was the reason I have been unable on the few occasions I tried to change my fixed week at the 10th month point. Have others tried successfully to do so?? If not how can we go about finding out if the real issue is that Starwood at 10 months just pulls the weeks in to their inventory for rent?
It only becomes an issue now for me as one of my children doesn't want to take their child out of school to go. I bought week 52 for this reason to use as the children got older but now a chance at a week when they might be off would be good to be able to have. I have put my week 1 up for rent at altantisfamilyfun.com in hopes of renting and end of March week but with the economy I am not sure it will be as easy as it was to rent my week 52--which rented through them in a matter of weeks.

 

[nalismom]

HRA Exchange

My cousin owns at SVV and in late May of 2009 she was able to exchange her time for a week at HRA from 8/14-8/21 2009- 1 bedroom

 

[LarryAck]

One point that you don't want to overlook is that you MUST call at 8 mos. if you expect to get a high demand resort. If you continue to call past the 8 mo. mark, and you are trying to get a reservation at a popular resort, you are going to continue to be disappointed.

Denise

I did call 8 months in advance, and then called every week to get any week that was available. There never was any availability. I also requested that they look back from March to June, and there was not availability. This in it self is strange. With all the weeks being booked its hard to believe no cancellations. Something is going on and it has to be investigated.

 

[Transit]

The plain truth is anyone with Staroptions can snatch these units and rent them for huge bucks.

 

[Stefa]

I did call 8 months in advance, and then called every week to get any week that was available. There never was any availability. I also requested that they look back from March to June, and there was not availability. This in it self is strange. With all the weeks being booked its hard to believe no cancellations. Something is going on and it has to be investigated.

There could have been cancellations and someone else grabbed them first. There were likely other owners calling for HRA as well. Just because nothing was available at the times you called doesn't mean there was never anything available.

 

[hefleycatz]

I'm glad we went last year to HRA and didn't wait till this year. We are going to try out Lagunamar in June and someplace else undecided. No problem with inventory there thank goodness.

p.s. Transit - your look is so spooky now. I liked your happy little camper-trailer.



lee

 

[Transit]

p.s. Transit - your look is so spooky now. I liked your happy little camper-trailer.



lee

Thats just seasonal. I'm looking for a good turkey now.The camper-trailer picture is actually a St.John cab.

 

[hefleycatz]

Thats just seasonal. I'm looking for a good turkey now.The camper-trailer picture is actually a St.John cab.

opps sorry, didn't mean to downgrade. Haven't been to St John yet, now maybe never, at least thru exchange.

I thought your avitar was just reflecting your mood the last few weeks. Glad to see its seasonal. Hope you find a funny goofy turkey, maybe it will lift the spirits of this board.

lee

 

[Captron]

I would think that most owners only make the mistake of not confirming early ONCE (unless they have that kind of $ to throw around). As you have discovered, at <8 months availability is unlikely at the high demand resorts.

I believe that a very high percentage of owners at HRA and WSJ (and Hawaii for that matter) ARE confirming their week before it becomes available to other owners.

I am sorry for your situation, I have been there too. I do not disbelieve that there are weeks being pulled off for other than owners direct use. However, I do believe that it is far less common than is being implied and that it is BY FAR a very small part of the cause of unavailability at the 5 month mark.

 

[DanCali]

I would think that most owners only make the mistake of not confirming early ONCE (unless they have that kind of $ to throw around). As you have discovered, at <8 months availability is unlikely at the high demand resorts.

I believe that a very high percentage of owners at HRA and WSJ (and Hawaii for that matter) ARE confirming their week before it becomes available to other owners.

Captron - until Starwood provides more transparency (whether in terms of how many owners are booking, or what Starwood is booking), we won't know what really happens. They will never give us that - even though we "own" the resorts.

My personal opinion is that they have a very good reason why they allow themselves to book inventory at prime resorts based on SO conversions at other places. It's hard to make the argument that theiy have owners' interests in mind given the anecdotal evidence that suggests otherwise.

I also believe that many owners do not book well in advance but have no actual evidence to support that belief. I can only suggest via example - I think we'll all agree that paying a $30 late fee to a credit card company is unwise and shouldn't happen more than once... yet it happens all the time - why do you think Banks are fighting so hard to keep those fees in place? It's worth billions... If many people don't remember to pay a bill that's due in two weeks - do you think they remember to book a vacation 12 months ahead of time? And for the ones who do do, many times plans change and they cancel...

As TUGers, I think we overestimate how much others worry about their vacations and plan them well in advance. I believe that many owners didn't really know what they were getting into when they bought and, unfortunately, don't how to make the most of their assets. I also believe Starwood takes advantage of this to benefit themselves.

We'll probably never know...

 

[Twinkstarr]

As TUGers, I think we overestimate how much others worry about their vacations and plan them well in advance. I believe that many owners didn't really know what they were getting into when they bought and, unfortunately, don't how to make the most of their assets. I also believe Starwood takes advantage of this to benefit themselves.

We'll probably never know...

I agree with you, I think a lot of us Tuggers think the majority of timeshare owners have vacation plans set up 1yr or more out, set reminders on their smartphones to call and make reservations.

I've met a few Marriott and fellow DVC owners locally that the majority of us would be at their booking patterns. I try not to be a noisy parker and tell them they are going about it all wrong and that's why they don't get what they want.

I've called up DVC right at my 11 month booking window and have been told more than once "boy you're calling early." And I'm booking major holidays.

 

[James1975NY]

I would think that most owners only make the mistake of not confirming early ONCE (unless they have that kind of $ to throw around). As you have discovered, at <8 months availability is unlikely at the high demand resorts.

I believe that a very high percentage of owners at HRA and WSJ (and Hawaii for that matter) ARE confirming their week before it becomes available to other owners.

I am sorry for your situation, I have been there too. I do not disbelieve that there are weeks being pulled off for other than owners direct use. However, I do believe that it is far less common than is being implied and that it is BY FAR a very small part of the cause of unavailability at the 5 month mark.

Captron, you are exactly right. It is usually the first use year (and the last time) that HRA owners do not plan in advance. After the first experience, the owner(s) become very proactive. Whether they are sure they can use the week they reserve or not, a reservation is almost always made for a "back-up" at the very least.

 

[Captron]

Captron - until Starwood provides more transparency (whether in terms of how many owners are booking, or what Starwood is booking), we won't know what really happens. They will never give us that - even though we "own" the resorts.

My personal opinion is that they have a very good reason why they allow themselves to book inventory at prime resorts based on SO conversions at other places. It's hard to make the argument that theiy have owners' interests in mind given the anecdotal evidence that suggests otherwise.

I also believe that many owners do not book well in advance but have no actual evidence to support that belief. I can only suggest via example - I think we'll all agree that paying a $30 late fee to a credit card company is unwise and shouldn't happen more than once... yet it happens all the time - why do you think Banks are fighting so hard to keep those fees in place? It's worth billions... If many people don't remember to pay a bill that's due in two weeks - do you think they remember to book a vacation 12 months ahead of time? And for the ones who do do, many times plans change and they cancel...

As TUGers, I think we overestimate how much others worry about their vacations and plan them well in advance. I believe that many owners didn't really know what they were getting into when they bought and, unfortunately, don't how to make the most of their assets. I also believe Starwood takes advantage of this to benefit themselves.

We'll probably never know...

I absolutely agree that TUGers are not representative of the overall owner base.

I agree that most do not know what they are getting into, but as James has affirmed from his experience while there, they learn to make reservations early after being burned once (maybe twice).

I believe that most of these issues of control and transparency come down to the independence of the board. Until OWNERS have control of the board and can even rewrite the CC&Rs (as happened with my HOA at my home this last year) we are basically unable to prove much at all. Only at that point could WE get/share the revenue from the rentals, negotiate competitive contracts for services and supplies, get control of MF, etc. Unfortunately, as they also control the owners lists our hopes of staging the required coup are slim to none.