Next set of boosters....

[GregT]

https://nypost.com/2022/08/28/lates...be-released-before-human-testing-is-complete/

I excerpt from the WSJ a quote from Paul Offit, who is one of five people on a committee (others were Fauci, Collins, Birx and Wallensky) who decided to go with heavy vax/ignore natural immunity approach back in early 2021. WSJ is behind paywall so no point in linking it.

----------------------

From the WSJ:

The approach has raised concerns, however, among some vaccine experts who have urged the agency to wait.

“I’m uncomfortable that we would move forward—that we would give millions or tens of millions of doses to people—based on mouse data,” said Paul Offit, an FDA adviser and director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

The comparison with flu vaccines isn’t sound, Dr. Offit said, because flu viruses mutate so rapidly that shots from one year don’t offer protection for the next, while currently available Covid-19 shots continue to keep people out of the hospital.

--------------------------

Interestingly, Offit admitted later in 2021 that he advised his son not to get vaccinated after the son had COVID.

Best,

Greg

 

[silentg]

Mixed messages

 

[emeryjre]

You put up a link to the NY Post. Then you talk about the WSJ. Which story are you discussing??

OK, I see what you did. The NY Post article discusses the Wall Street Journal article. I am subscribed to the WSJ and can put a free link if that is ok with you. I will not do it without your approval since you started the thread.

 

["Roger"]

Here is a link to the WSJ article. It is probably behind a paywall, but a number of publications make an exception for Covid articles. In any case, those with a subscription can use this link to access it.

Latest Covid Boosters Are Set to Roll Out Before Human Testing Is Completed

The FDA and vaccine makers say they are confident that shots targeting Omicron subvariants will work safely, even though they won’t have finished testing in humans when the FDA makes its decisions.

www.wsj.com

From the article...

“Real world evidence from the current mRNA Covid-19 vaccines, which have been administered to millions of individuals, show us that the vaccines are safe,” FDA Commissioner Robert Califf said in a recent tweet. The FDA pointed to Dr. Califf’s tweets when asked for comment.​

​

Clearance of the doses, without data from human testing known as clinical trials, is similar to the approach the FDA takes with flu shots, which are updated annually to keep up with mutating flu viruses.​

I found the listed concern unconvincing...

The comparison with flu vaccines isn’t sound, Dr. Offit said, because flu viruses mutate so rapidly that shots from one year don’t offer protection for the next, while currently available Covid-19 shots continue to keep people out of the hospital. ​

Covid has mutated a lot.

IMHO

 

[GregT]

You put up a link to the NY Post. Then you talk about the WSJ. Which story are you discussing??

OK, I see what you did. The NY Post article discusses the Wall Street Journal article. I am subscribed to the WSJ and can put a free link if that is ok with you. I will not do it without your approval since you started the thread.

Please do add the free link, thank you Emeryjre.

 

[emeryjre]

From the WSJ. The article being discussed by the NY Post. I have not fully read either article at this point, so I have no comment.

The free link is provided to subscribers to offer articles to non subscribers. I have only heard of issues accessing articles when using iPads.

Latest Covid Boosters Are Set to Roll Out Before Human Testing Is Completed

The FDA and vaccine makers say they are confident that shots targeting Omicron subvariants will work safely, even though they won’t have finished testing in humans when the FDA makes its decisions.

www.wsj.com

 

[GetawaysRus]

Although I understand the rationale, I'm surprised by the FDA's willingness to proceed without much in the way of clinical trial data.

For many years, the FDA maintained a lot of credibility by pointing to their success with Thalidomide. By refusing to approve it for use in the USA back in the 1950s, we avoided a large number of Thalidomide-related birth defects.

Over the past 2 years, I think that government health agencies have lost a large amount of credibility due to their handling of Covid. So I expected that they would want to have a home run, meaning a booster that would be highly efficacious and widely accepted. If they approve something that's not well tested, I'm concerned that many Americans will be reluctant to get the shot. Approving something that's not well tested will only fan the anti-vax flames. Also, this booster will be less effective if only a small number of people get it. That is, the "herd" will remain highly vulnerable to the virus.

This also concerns me because the issues with the current oral polio vaccine are yet to get widespread attention. Vaccination was one of the major medical advances over the last few centuries, and it's a shame if it gets questioned.

 

[emeryjre]

It is the same shot as previously approved. The only difference is an adjustment in the virus specifications to include a subvariant. Nothing else changed in the formula.

That is the rationale of the FDA in a nutshell. The actual rationale is a lot more detailed.

 

[GetawaysRus]

OK, yes. So tell us, will you be among the first to get this new booster? Or will you wait a while before considering it?

My last booster (shot #3) was October 2021, so I'm seriously considering another for this fall. But when to get it is now an open question.

 

[emeryjre]

I have no hesitation in getting this booster. There is no real difference in shots except this will cover additional variant

 

["Roger"]

Sigh...

@GetawaysRus

Your idea of a home run is to subject a large number of people, many of them young, to hospitalization, long term covid, heart problems, etc. That hardly strikes me as a home run. A quick review (although I am too tired of this to track down all the links).

1. Overall safety. What I consider the three most prestigious medical organizations in the country, the Mayo Clinic, John Hopkins, and the Cleveland Clinic, all, without hesitation, stand behind the safety of the mRNA vaccines and say get vaccinated. Here is link to the Cleveland Clinic discussion of the vaccine.
2. There have been countless postings on the internet explaining that if complications occur with vaccines, they will show up in the first two months or so. (This is different for drugs. So much for the comparison with Thalidomide.) On top of that, the safety of the mRNA vaccines have been constantly monitored after the roll out.
3. Younger people are more susceptible to heart problems from Covid than older people and these complications are far worse than the problems that have shown up with vaccinations. (The Johnson and Johnson vaccine, a non-mRNA vaccine, one of the "traditional vaccines" that the anti-vaxxers say they would prefer, have caused the most heart complications.) As far as younger people having heart problems after Covid, I have posted a number of times a link to how a substantial number of Big Ten athletes experienced enlarged hearts after contracting Covid. Thus, it is not the overweight, the young with other health issues, etc. that necessarily are struck with this problem.
4. Younger people are also susceptible to long term Covid. It is estimated that five percent of the US population might end up with long term Covid. The best way to avoid this. Get vaccinated.
5. There is a direct and overwhelming correlation between the US counties with low vaccination rates and severe Covid complications.
6. If holding off versus vaccinating were done as a RCT, given the overwhelming difference between what is happing between the two groups, medical ethics would dictate that the RCT be immediately halted because of the clear superiority of the one side of the trial.

So, I think it would be a terrible idea to wait until what, next May, and let countless bad things happen just to satisfy some anti-vaxxers who, as far as I am concerned, are being led by political groups as opposed to the best science has to offer.

 

[emeryjre]

I have been searching for Dr Offit's statement about advising his son not to get vaccinated. I can find people that attribute the statement to him, but I cannot find him saying it. I did find this

Should Kids Get Vaccinated If They’ve Already Had COVID-19? (sciencefriday.com)

From the interview:

It’s nearing the end of August, which means it’s back-to-school season. There’s a big difference between this school year and last: All children are now eligible for the COVID-19 vaccine. This means the risk of disease will likely be way down, compared to the past two autumns, according to vaccine researcher and pediatrician Paul Offit.

But for kids who have already been infected by COVID-19, will the vaccine add meaningful immunity?

“My answer to that question is yes,” Dr. Offit tells Ira. “Then you can be sure that they will then develop the kind of immunity that will likely lead to fairly long-lived protection against serious illness.”

Does not sound like the statement you attributed to him.

 

[gln60]

HERE WE GO AGAIN..HEADED DOWN THE POLITICAL ROAD

 

[GregT]

I have been searching for Dr Offit's statement about advising his son not to get vaccinated. I can find people that attribute the statement to him, but I cannot find him saying it. I did find this

Should Kids Get Vaccinated If They’ve Already Had COVID-19? (sciencefriday.com)

From the interview:

It’s nearing the end of August, which means it’s back-to-school season. There’s a big difference between this school year and last: All children are now eligible for the COVID-19 vaccine. This means the risk of disease will likely be way down, compared to the past two autumns, according to vaccine researcher and pediatrician Paul Offit.

But for kids who have already been infected by COVID-19, will the vaccine add meaningful immunity?

“My answer to that question is yes,” Dr. Offit tells Ira. “Then you can be sure that they will then develop the kind of immunity that will likely lead to fairly long-lived protection against serious illness.”

Does not sound like the statement you attributed to him.

Hello Emeryjre, I wanted to acknowledge the note you left for me in a different thread. The tone and kind comments are appreciated -- something we have lacked on this forum for awhile. We may not always agree, but I appreciate the comments and I thank you.

This clip doesn't reference his son, but it does suggest what advice he might have given, perhaps what he really believes.

This is late July 2021, before the *bleep* really hit the fan.

Before the mandates.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1448267432196275

I mentioned earlier that a committee of 5 made the (momentous) decision on what public position should be taken on natural immunity. I understand it was 3-2, with Offit supporting recognizing natural immunity, but losing.

Best,

Greg

 

[davidvel]

https://nypost.com/2022/08/28/lates...be-released-before-human-testing-is-complete/

I excerpt from the WSJ a quote from Paul Offit, who is one of five people on a committee (others were Fauci, Collins, Birx and Wallensky) who decided to go with heavy vax/ignore natural immunity approach back in early 2021. WSJ is behind paywall so no point in linking it.

----------------------

From the WSJ:

The approach has raised concerns, however, among some vaccine experts who have urged the agency to wait.

“I’m uncomfortable that we would move forward—that we would give millions or tens of millions of doses to people—based on mouse data,” said Paul Offit, an FDA adviser and director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

The comparison with flu vaccines isn’t sound, Dr. Offit said, because flu viruses mutate so rapidly that shots from one year don’t offer protection for the next, while currently available Covid-19 shots continue to keep people out of the hospital.

--------------------------

Interestingly, Offit admitted later in 2021 that he advised his son not to get vaccinated after the son had COVID.

Best,

Greg

Greg, you've been sucked in plain and simple, You used to offer rational logical thought on all things timeshare. I know you have successful doing complex business analysis. But this has you hooked, like a fish; sorry it has gotten you. You posted a few days ago the vaccine doesn't work, now you post that it keeps people out of the hospital. Then you post garbage you admit above never was said by Offit. It's like @easyrider has taken over your account.

I've seen so many spiral down this political/ideological rabbit hole. I once thought we could meet and converse, but you truly have changed. I know you have this fear likely driven by excessive viewing of ideological cult garbage on the internet, I can only hope you pull back and use the intelligence you have. Your best chance is to stop watching videos. Good luck to you.

 

[Brett]

Greg, you've been sucked in plain and simple, You used to offer rational logical thought on all things timeshare. I know you have successful doing complex business analysis. But this has you hooked, like a fish; sorry it has gotten you. You posted a few days ago the vaccine doesn't work, now you post that it keeps people out of the hospital. Then you post garbage you admit above never was said by Offit. It's like @easyrider has taken over your account.

I've seen so many spiral down this political/ideological rabbit hole. I once thought we could meet and converse, but you truly have changed. I know you have this fear likely driven by excessive viewing of ideological cult garbage on the internet, I can only hope you pull back and use the intelligence you have. Your best chance is to stop watching videos. Good luck to you.

That's the point for some posters COVID = POLITICS = going down the rabbit hole

 

[MdRef]

The Island of Misfit Experts.

Fauci, Collins, Birx and Wallensky.

 

[Cornell]

Latest Covid Boosters Are Set to Roll Out Before Human Testing Is Completed

The Island of Misfit Experts.

Fauci, Collins, Birx and Wallensky.

There are really so many more people on that island that it might just tip over (like Guam)

 

[emeryjre]

Hello Emeryjre, I wanted to acknowledge the note you left for me in a different thread. The tone and kind comments are appreciated -- something we have lacked on this forum for awhile. We may not always agree, but I appreciate the comments and I thank you.

This clip doesn't reference his son, but it does suggest what advice he might have given, perhaps what he really believes.

This is late July 2021, before the *bleep* really hit the fan.

Before the mandates.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1448267432196275

I mentioned earlier that a committee of 5 made the (momentous) decision on what public position should be taken on natural immunity. I understand it was 3-2, with Offit supporting recognizing natural immunity, but losing.

Best,

Greg

What he really believes?? Why is your posted interview more believable than the one I posted where he unequivocally states his position? Take my statement as rhetorical.

Let's try something different.

Below is a link to a free course. The edX series of courses were started to allow people to get an educational experience from top universities. MIT and Harvard are participants.

The courses are offered in the technology that is evolving into the standards of the future.

This is the type of information that the top colleges are teaching your children's contemporaries.

I presume you are a top of your class type of person. You will be required to put on your "thinking cap" (joke) in this class.

You will not see these classes advertised on "rile em radio" broadcasts, but they are eye opening.

This particular class is taught by an individual that made breakthrough discoveries advancing mRNA technology, He is the real deal.

edX and Penn Create Free Online Course on Understanding the Powerful Science Behind mRNA Vaccines

 

[GregT]

Greg, you've been sucked in plain and simple, You used to offer rational logical thought on all things timeshare. I know you have successful doing complex business analysis. But this has you hooked, like a fish; sorry it has gotten you. You posted a few days ago the vaccine doesn't work, now you post that it keeps people out of the hospital. Then you post garbage you admit above never was said by Offit. It's like @easyrider has taken over your account.

I've seen so many spiral down this political/ideological rabbit hole. I once thought we could meet and converse, but you truly have changed. I know you have this fear likely driven by excessive viewing of ideological cult garbage on the internet, I can only hope you pull back and use the intelligence you have. Your best chance is to stop watching videos. Good luck to you.

Hello Davidvel,

I know you mean this positively and so I will take it as such. It is interesting to me that we both look at Offit's video and remember the pieces that reinforce our beliefs. I don't have the clip where he talks about his son and I have no inclination to find it for you. I'm sorry you view his comments as a garbage video and you will be happy to know I rarely watch videos.

It is too early to conclude that I am on the wrong side of history (you didn't say it, but you probably agree with it)

To clarify what my side of history is:

1) Natural immunity is comparable to, if not better than, V'd immunity (more durable, longer lasting)

2) Mandating a medical intervention that does not prevent infection and stop transmission of the disease is not appropriate

3) This treatment is very different from the other mandated treatments, as those treatments prevent infection

4) The long term safety of these treatments is not known, especially now that it is clear that it requires repeated boosters

I know you, and others, agree with none of these views. That is fine. Some of my views are now accepted, others it is too early to conclude and I have the capacity to recognize that I may be wrong.

Best,

Greg

Edited: So I can find this in 2023: #WSOH

 

[Brett]

The Island of Misfit Experts.

Fauci, Collins, Birx and Wallensky.

The Covid Island of misinformation "experts"

Joseph Mercola
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Tucker Carlson
Laura Ingraham
Christiane Northrup


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html

 

[Brett]

HERE WE GO AGAIN..HEADED DOWN THE POLITICAL ROAD

COVID = POLITICS !

 

[emeryjre]

Hello Davidvel,

I know you mean this positively and so I will take it as such. It is interesting to me that we both look at Offit's video and remember the pieces that reinforce our beliefs. I don't have the clip where he talks about his son and I have no inclination to find it for you. I'm sorry you view his comments as a garbage video and you will be happy to know I rarely watch videos.

It is too early to conclude that I am on the wrong side of history (you didn't say it, but you probably agree with it)

To clarify what my side of history is:

Natural immunity is comparable to, if not better than, V'd immunity (more durable, longer lasting)
Mandating a medical intervention that does not prevent infection and stop transmission of the disease is not appropriate
This treatment is very different from the other mandated treatments, as those treatments prevent infection
The long term safety of these treatments is not known, especially now that it is clear that it requires repeated boosters

I know you, and others, agree with none of these views. That is fine. Some of my views are now accepted, others it is too early to conclude and I have the capacity to recognize that I may be wrong.

Best,

Greg

The first 3 points have been refuted many times by bluehende and his command of the current real studies relied upon by decision makers that are responsible for trying to keep people safe. If you choose not to believe them, that is your choice. But why do you keep trying to push them down the throats of members at TUG.

The long term safety will require time. But the thousands of people that are working with, studying, and researching and have the facts about mRNA feel it is a safe technology. The people that promote mRNA as being unsafe are getting paid to promote that fear, plain and simple.

But again, the real question I have, is why do you keep pushing the fear side of mRNA here at TUG.

 

[MdRef]

COVID = POLITICS !

COVID = ILL-INFORMED, DRAMATICALLY MISTAKE RIDDEN POLITICS !!


The CDC deployed a "faulty" COVID-19 test to the nation that may have set back efforts to prevent the rapid spread of the disease.
The CDC is "resetting" after admitting it made "dramatic" mistakes in reacting to the COVID-19 pandemic.

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky a/k/a Co-Founder of The Island of Misfit "Experts"

 

[Bill4728]

We're waiting for fall to get the new vaccine.

I don't want the old vaccine that has been proven to not stop infections ( even though it does stop severe disease.)