New Wyndham Fees Increase

[bnoble]

Ann, it could cut both ways---several personal-use owners have been renting for their increased piont needs rather than adding on, because it's been such a good deal. Increasing the short-term rental rate to $8/K makes some previously untouchable deeds with MF in the $5.50/K range a lot more interesting.

We'll just have to wait to see what happens. Should be interesting.

 

[Don40]

The price increase is really outrageous, but he hardest thing to swallow is that several items are not available on-line and the fees still went up. If WYN spend a few shekels on their computer system and got it up and fully operational then raising the fees to call the VC instead of using the on-line system is OK. This is total price gouging as the on-line system is half functional and the price increase amounts are crazy.

This is WYN way of asking us owners for a "bail out" from their financial difficulties. I am sure the hotel business is very slow, but TS owners want to use their points and are willing to pay to do so because we love to vacation.

 

[vacationhopeful]

As others have stated on these boards, the rental market is slower. Wyndham's rental market (Extra Vacations) may also be down. I have seen many large resale contracts on eBay in the past several months and can't help to wonder if this is the contributing reason (along with the economy).

Also, resale contracts points are NOT being counted towards the Guest Certificate numbers - FSP members get 1 annual Guest Certificate. VIP owners get their multiple allocation based on eligible points. It was interesting that Wyndham used the "resale" word as NOT being eligible - something they seldom do.

As for a lawsuit, could there be a basis as a de factor denial of use of vacation property ownership rights (these are deeded rights)? There is significant fee increase of 4X (online $25 to $99) or 5+X (VC $25 to $129), with the written justification being increased costs that a guest generates. Again, whether on owner uses their unit (vacation time) or their tenant, the costs for the reservation and checkin are identical, IMHO. As for the resort activites, again the same costs ==> what is there to prove that a guest's use of the pool incurs MORE costs than a Wyndham's owner. Housekeeping fees are already a separate calculation.

Many exchange companies accept vacation time for exchange and process the trades with all participants agreeing that traded vacation time CAN NOT be rented. This is not a denial of ownersip rights - if I want to trade using the AB&C exchange company, I obey their rules OR find another exchange company.

 

[zazz]

The only fee increase that really gets me is the increase in point rentals. Being a new owner of 154K points, I was hoping to rent some points initially rather than add on to my existing contract. Now that plan is in the toilet.

I wonder if this will cause the resale value of 77K and 105K point contracts to crater since the startegy with those was often to buy a small contract and rent the rest.

In any case, the US Air-ing of Wyndham is certainly underway.

 

[BocaBum99]

Never mind.

 

[Jya-Ning]

I nearly fell off my chair when I saw the increase in Guest Certificates from $25 to $129. That is highway robbery. Especially for us that already had "unlimited" as VIP level before, that was now taken away. I would be very upset it I had to pay that amount. Thankfully I have lots of Guest Certificates to burn up in a year.

I thought it was going to be $49. How did it jump all the way to $129 (or $99 online)?

It is $49 this year, the new fee will kick in at 10/15/2008.

Jya-Ning

 

[vacationhopeful]

I believe they were not collecting the $49 guest certificate fee until VERY recently ... as the NEW computer system was not providing how many FREE guest certificates you enjoyed .... recently being less than 6 weeks ago?

No action of increased rate can have NO DAMAGE - so a fee that wasn't collected til Sept 1st and then 6 weeks later, increases again, can be preceived as just one action. Not discrete actions and based on different justifications.

For Example:
Say I rent you a monthly rental. You have rented from me for 6 years. I tell you that come January I will raise your rent by $24 dollars. You not happy, but I tell you it costs me more money to run the rental unit. Come 1/1, I tell you that I am not going to collect the rent increase now; but at some day in the future, I will ask you for the higher rent payment to begin. Now on 9/1, I tell you I want my rent increase starting now.

But oh surprise!, on 10/8 I tell you I am now raising the rent again on 10/15. Do you as a common person see this as a separate and discrete rent increase? You wouldn't ... it wasn't important enough (financially necessary) for me (landlord) to collect my monies due until 9/1, why is it now a financial necessarity for me to raise your rent again? Is there another motive to harm the "tenant" - to force them illegally out of their home for my (landlord's) financial gain? Is it "unconscienable" increase in rent (or fees related to my use and enjoyment of my residence)?


So, IMO, the period of time is too short for these to be discrete actions. My fees have gone up 4X or 5X, resulting in lost of rights and use by financial harm.

 

[msvalenti]

Guest Certificate Shock

I was SHOCKED. They are clearly targeted the mega renters. If the owner does it online, there is NO extra work by Wyndham. Not one thing. My guess is that there will be a lawsuit on this fee.

I can see setting it at $64. But, $129? If Wyndham gets away with this, there is nothing that will stop them from making it something like $499. This is eggregious profiteering that should be challenged by someone. We'll see how it goes.

Shocked is not the word, when I read the email I was particularly baffled by this statement:
"This fee covers the costs incurred by non-owners using your services and facilities."
What extra fees do they incur if my sister and her 3 kids use my week or if me and my husband and our 3 kids use it. All they do is change the reservation name in the computer. My maintenance fee covers my weeks maintenance costs no matter who uses it. What kind of BS are they trying to feed us here. I called and asked them to explain what exactly these extra charges are and they said they will call me back today. If they are trying to stop the renters then they need to do some other way, and they need to be truthful in their email regarding the reasons behind the increased charges. I have a Marriott time share through II and I can almost purchase 4 GC for $129. If they are almost tripling the charges for the GC then they should triple the number of complimentary GC you are alloted. I have 2 contracts and I am being told I only get 1 guest certificate. I should get at the least 2. What if I can't use my weeks one year and want to GC both of them for family, now I have to pay $129.00. That is ridiculous. All you members who are as angry as I am should call owner relations and ask them to explain these additional expenses they incur for guests in detail, and if they cannot explain, they need to be blasted about downright lying in the coorespondence to their members!

 

[BocaBum99]

Shocked is not the word, when I read the email I was particularly baffled by this statement:
"This fee covers the costs incurred by non-owners using your services and facilities."What extra fees do they incur if my sister and her 3 kids use my week or if me and my husband and our 3 kids use it. All they do is change the reservation name in the computer. My maintenance fee covers my weeks maintenance costs no matter who uses it. What kind of BS are they trying to feed us here. I called and asked them to explain what exactly these extra charges are and they said they will call me back today. If they are trying to stop the renters then they need to do some other way, and they need to be truthful in their email regarding the reasons behind the increased charges. I have a Marriott time share through II and I can almost purchase 4 GC for $129. If they are almost tripling the charges for the GC then they should triple the number of complimentary GC you are alloted. I have 2 contracts and I am being told I only get 1 guest certificate. I should get at the least 2. What if I can't use my weeks one year and want to GC both of them for family, now I have to pay $129.00. That is ridiculous. All you members who are as angry as I am should call owner relations and ask them to explain these additional expenses they incur for guests in detail, and if they cannot explain, they need to be blasted about downright lying in the coorespondence to their members!

Using Wyndham logic, they should also charge you an extra $129 any time you deposit a week into RCI. I wonder if that is next.

 

[timeos2]

The Exchange or guest penalty will just get worse

Using Wyndham logic, they should also charge you an extra $129 any time you deposit a week into RCI. I wonder if that is next.

This is just an extension of the "penalty" idea for guests/exchangers (although aimed at the OWNERS in this case) pioneered by DVC though II and then later adopted by Manhattan Club (and RCI) so many years ago. I was afraid of this and fought it as much as I could - to the point of dropping II and DVC since they were the crew behind it - nearly 8 years ago now. Turns out my single owner action did nothing to stop it (he he, I was SO sure it would - NOT!) but at least I felt I wasn't adding support to a plan that flew in the face of fair like for like trading. Now the other big boys are picking up on it and its only likely to get worse. Thanks DVC and II for opening the door....

 

[Sandy VDH]

This got me to thinking how are they planning on "counting" transactions and guest certificates.

Is it at time of booking the reservation or adding the certificate. Or is it based on when that reservation or certificate will be used.

I think now that reservations are based on the date of the request not the date that reservation is for. Can someone clarify or confirm this for me?

Are they going to display somewhere what our transaction and guest fee counts or numbers are. Kind of like frequest fly upgrades. How many do you have left? I think that need to be able to audit and show that to use? What do others think?

I have been VIP for so long that I stopped worrying about it since they were "suppose" to be free and unlimited. Well that is over.

 

[Jya-Ning]

I think now that reservations are based on the date of the request not the date that reservation is for. Can someone clarify or confirm this for me?

You are right on this (based on the day reservation is made). The GC is not count in the transaction.

If you use on-line, it shows the total number of transaction. For GC, if you use on-line, when you click on the one you want to add/change the guest, it shows the free GC available. I did not play it frequently enough, but I guess change GC is also count as one. So if your friend or family are always change mind, it maybe a time to cut them loose.

Jya-Ning

 

[Sandy VDH]

I knew that GC don't counts as part of the transaction. However there is still now a GC count.

Does the count get used up when you make the request for a GC. If you change a name is that an additional count. What if it is just a typo?

Do the GC counts increase at the time the GC is requested of the time the reservation is used.

I know that I will be holding on and not getting GC for reservations that might be canceled. I will hold onto reservations without a GC until the time that the reservation can not be canceled without full penalty. I will request the GC then. By brother must change his mind about times before he finally sticks to the room resort and date choices. Changing requested rooms or getting an upgrade, as a VIP perk for instance, it is another transactions and yet another guest certificate as far as Wyndham's systems are concerned, but in my opinion it is just a change in room. Are they going to be charging for these I SURE HOPE NOT.

 

[Jya-Ning]

They just have put the restriction, I will believe it is follow whatever it used to follow for people that does not have unlimited GC benefit. But I don't know too many people that does not have free GC will make too many changes. But based on what happen to RCI, I would guess if you just happen to have a name error, you can always call VC to correct it without charge. I have heavy accent, and when I talk to VC, even after we go through several time, they may still make mistake. You can always point to the fact you already spend a GC on this reservation, and just have them correct it.

As to VIP upgrade, that is a good question, since at this moment, you can not do it through on-line, I will guess if you already have a GC, it will be transfer without extra penalty, but you can and should alway confirm with the VC first, after all, you will have to call a VC on upgrade.

Jya-Ning

 

[Leturno]

I loved our Fairfield/Wyndham deeds up to an hour ago

I was trying to decide if it was really worth keeping my Ff/Wynd timeshare with the ever increasing RCI exchange fees. We bought our points because we can travel off season and we could get great trades. We also like being about to take guests off season to local resorts. My heart felt heavy when I read the new fees and then all the way at the botton when it said Resale do not get complimentary GC. How the heck does resale calculate into a GC?? The deed had to be purchased retail at one point.

I hate the way the use dishonest language about how they are raising fees to be fair. It is obvious they are raising fees to rake in more cash off of their captive owners.

After reading this thread and seeing talk about points selling for less then a penny a point I went to ebay to check it out. DANG I can't even sell my 2.25 cent a point ownership without taking a loss because of the economy and Wyndham’s ever growing hostility to it's MF paying owners.

Can anybody explain to me this? If high level VIP get unlimited GC how do these new fees affect mega renters with mega points?

Maybe it's time to arrange some noisy protests at sales centers! Oh yeah, and invite the media!

Scott

 

[bnoble]

For those wondering: I just checked my (resale-only) account, and I do have one free GC sitting there.

So, it appears everyone gets at least one, not just those with developer purchases.

 

[ajdon]

I'm online in my account, where do you see if you have GCs?

 

[Sandy VDH]

I'm online in my account, where do you see if you have GCs?

Go through the process of pretending to book a unit, and click on the need guest certification option. The count will be there.

Otherwise if you have an existing reservation try to pretend to add a GC. You don't have to finish either process, but it will show you the GC count on that page where you fill in guest information.