New - Thinking about MVC

[Steve Fatula]

IMO no one new to timesharing should ever buy with the main plan being shorter term usage. It adds risk and it works for very few, namely those that are VERY flexible and willing to put extra effort into the system.

I respect your view. But no one method or size fits all, so, you should also consider that not everyone thinks or operates in the same manner as you. Nor do they think or operate as I do, which is sometimes a good thing, lol.

IMHO, this guy knows what he wants.

 

[Dean]

I respect your view. But no one method or size fits all, so, you should also consider that not everyone thinks or operates in the same manner as you. Nor do they think or operate as I do, which is sometimes a good thing, lol.

IMHO, this guy knows what he wants.

The only exceptions to the principle that no one new to timesharing should buy with the main plan to do mainly short notice that I can conceive of are very convoluted. Certainly someone who has more knowledge due to being an owner previously or friend/family exposure over time could be an easier stretch. One would need the ability, willingness and personality to do this. Even then they likely need at least of the following abilities: be able to travel shoulder or off season, be very flexible as to where to go and flexible when to go, preferably they'd be willing and able to do all 3 to make this workable. Even for those experienced like you and I, it'd be a tiny subset where this would be reasonable as the main usage. Usually when people say their flexible, they don't have any idea the amount of flexibility that is required for timeshares even when they plan ahead. If one doesn't buy a timeshare when it'd be a good thing for them it's not a big loss. If one buys a timeshare and it's not a good choice, it can be devastating. I'd rather see 100 people not buy that should have than 1 buy where it's a curse.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Wow, I am glad I do not have your view, I would be depressed. I respectfully disagree but enough said. I'm starting to think you do not have the ability to understand any thoughts contrary to your own way of thinking.

 

[vacationtime1]

were looking at possibly doing 10k up front, and purcahsing a couple discounted weeks as well. those combined would give us about 16500 a year, which is about what i think i would use over 3-4 trips. put us in chairmans club, 25k bonus points, and 100k bonvoy all averaging out to about 9.2 a point. not counting the 25k bonus points which is worth something

If you are a MVC owner of any number of points, you can rent additional points from other owners. See https://vacationpointexchange.com/

So my advice would be -- if you decide to do this -- to buy 7000 resale points (which will cost about $50K, which is plenty) to get your feet wet. You can then rent additional points as needed for however many timeshare trips you will take in any given year.

As Others have said, you are unlikely to recoup more than a fraction of the upfront cost, so minimize it.

 

[Steve Fatula]

So my advice would be -- if you decide to do this -- to buy 7000 resale points (which will cost about $50K, which is plenty) to get your feet wet. You can then rent additional points as needed for however many timeshare trips you will take in any given year.

But he wanted a few enrolled weeks too. Hybrid would therefore get him about the same cost per point, but, lower MF most likely.

 

[Dean]

Wow, I am glad I do not have your view, I would be depressed. I respectfully disagree but enough said. I'm starting to think you do not have the ability to understand any thoughts contrary to your own way of thinking.

Understand yes but simply disagree completely. My views revolve around principles and risk management and this view comes under both.

 

[m61376]

I agree with a few of the posts above. While it appears that you've thought it out, deciding to buy into Chairman's level right away is akin to diving in head first. Perhaps buying into Executive level with a hybrid package would be like dipping your toes into the pool. It'd give you a chance to fully experience the program, while having the ability to rent points from others to take full advantage of a larger points package without the upfront or annual MF commitment.
Let me preface it by saying we're very happy legacy week owners, and we love going to Aruba. Generally we go twice a year, and will lock-off when the studio isn't needed giving us a trade elsewhere. Using that we've also gone to a variety of other places, although not nearly as many as others on this board. Whether or not we have the kids/grandkids with us we prefer the timeshare lifestyle, but not everyone does. I prefer to be able to have breakfast in my villa rather than going out most days, and like to bring down a cooler and graze at the beach. Most nights we go out to dinner but really like breaking it up and grilling maybe 2 nights during the week. And I'm fine planning a year in advance, reserving the week I want at the earliest possible date to reserve (and, yes, on occasion I've changed it due to a conflict). I don't need fresh linens every day and don't mind straightening my bed, and enjoy the convenience of a kitchen and added space. That said, there are many people who prefer daily housekeeping (although available at an added cost), hate advance planning, miss room service and the larger restaurant selection found at many resort hotels, and prefer more luxurious hotel amenities.
Like others have said, timesharing isn't for everybody. It's a more economical way to visit really nice resorts in great locations with spacious accommodations and with nice but not high end amenities. If you require secluded beaches and private dinners, someone bringing towels and cold water to your lounges, etc., then staying at a Ritz or St. Regis or the like will be more to your liking. On the other hand if you're looking for a more economical, spacious but still really nice travel option, then you'll likely be very happy. But you need to experience it for yourself to know if it's right for you.
It's much easier to buy than to sell, so I wouldn't rec. starting out with a 100K investment and high annual MF commitment. You mentioned Aruba in your original post. Did you enjoy your visit there? If you could envision wanting to return for your annual June trip every other year or so, a nice option might be to buy a resale 3BR Gold season week there. The units are huge, and would comfortably accommodate your group. The second bedroom has 2 Queen beds, good for your daughters and friends, and the lock-off is huge, a bit down the hall and has it's own entrance, so ideal for non-family guests. It trades well so would give you other options. If you buy one on the resale market you won't be able to enroll in the points system, but it's a great way to dip your toes in the water, so to speak. You also mention Orlando as being a frequent past destination. If you foresee that for the future, then a 3BR Grande Vista week might be something of interest. Just mentioning these as options, since in today's market the 3BR Gold Aruba week would prob. run ~12-13K and the MGV less than half of that. The annual MF's for the Aruba week is ~2500 and the Orlando week I'm guessing closer to 2K, so you could see if this is right for you with far less financial commitment. IF you really want to enroll in the points program IF Marriott has any direct resale 3BR weeks in Aruba those are eligible to be enrolled, but you'll prob. pay triple the cost up front.
Anyway, just some food for thought. Good luck, and welcome to TUG

 

[bogey21]

...buy 7000 resale points (which will cost about $50K, which is plenty) to get your feet wet...As Others have said, you are unlikely to recoup more than a fraction of the upfront cost, so minimize it.

This philosophy turns $50k into something like a pretty high Initiation Fee to me. I'm not in the "Rent, Don't Own" camp but this way of thinking makes me wonder...

George

 

[Dean]

deciding to buy into Chairman's level right away is akin to diving in head first. Perhaps buying into Executive level with a hybrid package would be like dipping your toes into the pool.

I don't disagree but I would also suggest that there are way to get to Chairman's Club out of the gate that could be minimally more expensive than Executive up front and could be modestly more expensive yearly. Using rough numbers buying points resale or a hybrid purchase, one would be looking at around $50K up front and yearly $4200 to get to 7000 or slightly more than double that for Chairman's at 15K points. As one example: If one bought 3 LV weeks, they could potentially get to 15K points with enrollment either by buying a qualifying week or 4000-5000 or so points (assuming the program were available at a later date. One of those LV weeks might need to be a Platinum plus or a 3 BR for a 4000 retail enrollment. So roughly $15K (big numbers) for the LV weeks and $40K for the points or week retail. Dues then on 15K points around $6500 in that scenario. Still as cheap or cheaper than a simple retail purchase for 7000 pts. Apparently a quarter share purchase and enrollment will be cheaper still on a per point basis both up front and yearly but it would be a lot more points and a lot more up front.

I'm not saying this is the best approach but it is a good way to get in if one simply wants points with a lower up front cost and relatively lower fees than just buying points. Personally I'd rather see people investigate well enough so they know how they'll use it up front then they'll know more what works for them. For me personally I tend to want a core of what I'll use combined with points. Generally more expensive but comes with more (relative) guarantees.

Of course one could do this with just legacy weeks and II potentially as some of the resorts allow split usage (3 days/4days) and II has some options where one can do shorter stays. And there's nothing to say one can't combine stategies such as legacy weeks for the larger stays and rental for the shorter ones. And there's nothing to say one has to stay a week if a given reservation or exchange is for a full week.

My last caveat is THINGS CHANGE. They change on the timeshare side with rules, quality even the points could change. They change on the personal side as well. Our preferences, heath and general situations change. And even if we investigate well, we may end up preferring resorts we didn't think we would and not caring for resorts or areas we thought would be best.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Yes Dean, so that's why I had suggested hybrid. But trumping hybrid is indeed the quarter shares. For about the same price the OP was willing to pay, he can have 13 weeks and 20,000+ points, with less MF. He mentioned 9.2 a point and about 16k points. The fractional would likely be cheaper for more points and less MF.

To me, it's clear he is not hurting and scraping by to fund the purchase. Not everyone is in a money crunch. For some, time is more important than money and for them, the simplest transaction is often the "best" in their mind. But I would agree that a quarter share is likely the best option given how much he was able to spend.

If I was able to fund it, I'd gladly trade all my ownerships for 1 fractional.

 

[Dean]

Yes Dean, so that's why I had suggested hybrid. But trumping hybrid is indeed the quarter shares. For about the same price the OP was willing to pay, he can have 13 weeks and 20,000+ points, with less MF. He mentioned 9.2 a point and about 16k points. The fractional would likely be cheaper for more points and less MF.

To me, it's clear he is not hurting and scraping by to fund the purchase. Not everyone is in a money crunch. For some, time is more important than money and for them, the simplest transaction is often the "best" in their mind. But I would agree that a quarter share is likely the best option given how much he was able to spend.

If I was able to fund it, I'd gladly trade all my ownerships for 1 fractional.

I wouldn't, and that'd be about the amount of points I have, but that's beside the point. Our single point of contention was simply whether anyone new to timesharing should buy in where their main usage plan was short notice. My contention remains the same, that that's essentially never a good idea. Funding and means have no bearing unless they have enough to just throw it away and want a toy knowing that it's unlikely to work out long term.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I wouldn't, and that'd be about the amount of points I have, but that's beside the point. Our single point of contention was simply whether anyone new to timesharing should buy in where their main usage plan was short notice. My contention remains the same, that that's essentially never a good idea. Funding and means have no bearing unless they have enough to just throw it away and want a toy knowing that it's unlikely to work out long term.

Ok, you mentioned it first (the quarter share), was merely expanding on it as (as Frank808 has mentioned) you can essentially vacation for free MF wise yearly (though that takes renting points an admitted hassle). But yes, we do disagree on that one issue. I think those who see short term as a problem mostly come from the old weeks systems and need to arrange far in advance, or choose to. The paradigm has shifted. Points are intended to make it easier for short term, and mostly they accomplish that very well. Do they in all cases? No. But I have yet to make a single points reservation a year in advance, simply not necessary, nor would I want to do that as things change. I can get so many places short term now. Much easier than weeks were, with less hassle, stress, time. At least for me.

I'm not sure I agree his main or semi exclusive usage was short term though. He did say sometimes he likes to do that. But he's been renting houses and seems to have a semi regular schedule. He also said for at least one trip, a year in advance is no problem for him. After all, he said specifically:

"our yearly trip i can plan out a year in advance without issue. and then a couple whisicles are easy, as we never care where we go,"

So, that is unquestionably a prime candidate for points. I just didn't see him (as you seem to) as only or merely a short term guy. In the end, it does not matter what you think, or what I think, only what he thinks.

If your main contention is you are positive he is only a short term guy, I see your point making a little more sense at least. I just didn't read that into what he has said.

 

[Dean]

I'm not sure I agree his main or semi exclusive usage was short term though. He did say sometimes he likes to do that. But he's been renting houses and seems to have a semi regular schedule. He also said for at least one trip, a year in advance is no problem for him. After all, he said specifically:

"our yearly trip i can plan out a year in advance without issue. and then a couple whisicles are easy, as we never care where we go,"

So, that is unquestionably a prime candidate for points. I just didn't see him (as you seem to) as only or merely a short term guy. In the end, it does not matter what you think, or what I think, only what he thinks.

If your main contention is you are positive he is only a short term guy, I see your point making a little more sense at least. I just didn't read that into what he has said.

No, you misread my statements. When I respond I often, if not usually, respond in a more general method and such is the case here. It's simply a general statement as above which might or might not apply to the OP. I was not specifically addressing this portion to the OP, I had no idea if it would apply or not and still don't know as much as I'd like to make a specific recommendation to the OP. Again, if you read this as a specific response to his situation, you simply misread with a far too narrow focus. They've since stated they could plan a year out for the larger trip and had a fair amount of flexibility due to working from home but haven't stated where they'd like to go as a routine or even a list of what they're thinking about. My answer for Aruba or HI week 51/52 vs Orlando in the "summer" would tend to be vastly different. IMO we still don't have enough info to make a good set of specific recommendations for him.

 

[Steve Fatula]

No, you misread my statements. When I respond I often, if not usually, respond in a more general method and such is the case here. It's simply a general statement as above which might or might not apply to the OP. I was not specifically addressing this portion to the OP, I had no idea if it would apply or not and still don't know as much as I'd like to make a specific recommendation to the OP. Again, if you read this as a specific response to his situation, you simply misread with a far too narrow focus. They've since stated they could plan a year out for the larger trip and had a fair amount of flexibility due to working from home but haven't stated where they'd like to go as a routine or even a list of what they're thinking about. My answer for Aruba or HI week 51/52 vs Orlando in the "summer" would tend to be vastly different. IMO we still don't have enough info to make a good set of specific recommendations for him.

Ok, I guess I did then. Sure, Aruba 51/52 is different, no question, but there are those here on Tug which are always wanting specific weeks at specific places, those are indeed not well suited to short term. Which is why i said it does not apply in all cases of course. But the folks I hang around with are retired and non Tuggers, and those folks have a totally different mindset having no kids, no school schedule, no job schedule, etc. I talk to them all the time where we go on trips, and they are totally different than Tuggers! Some go to the same place all the time, others enjoy exploring while they can. Rarely does an exact time matter. Like my upcoming Hawaii, didn't care which Hawaii was available, just wanted one of them. Would never do that far in advance.

This would really drive most of you nuts. I have a dear female timeshare friend who throws every state into a hat (unless previously visited). She draws out 3, and, tries to get into a place in one of those 3 states (which for some states may not be possible), whichever comes up first (if a lesser timeshare state) for availability. I think it's a wonderful way of doing things. I guess I grew up in a poor family, who nevertheless found a way to vacation every year (driving), and never once went to the same place twice. I will never ever forget those trips as long as I live. So blessed to have parents that did this. This is the opposite of so many Tuggers who want the same place, same week, etc. Which is fine if that floats your boat, job schedule, school schedule. Those are well suited to weeks ownership of course. I believe this is true, I don't think I have met a non Tugger points owner at a resort that has ever been anything but happy about points. Which is opposite of what Tuggers seem to think.

So, perhaps we do agree even more than I previously thought as I did misread from what you have said here.

 

[Dean]

Ok, I guess I did then. Sure, Aruba 51/52 is different, no question, but there are those here on Tug which are always wanting specific weeks at specific places, those are indeed not well suited to short term. Which is why i said it does not apply in all cases of course. But the folks I hang around with are retired and non Tuggers, and those folks have a totally different mindset having no kids, no school schedule, no job schedule, etc. I talk to them all the time where we go on trips, and they are totally different than Tuggers! Some go to the same place all the time, others enjoy exploring while they can. Rarely does an exact time matter. Like my upcoming Hawaii, didn't care which Hawaii was available, just wanted one of them. Would never do that far in advance.

This would really drive most of you nuts. I have a dear female timeshare friend who throws every state into a hat (unless previously visited). She draws out 3, and, tries to get into a place in one of those 3 states (which for some states may not be possible), whichever comes up first (if a lesser timeshare state) for availability. I think it's a wonderful way of doing things. I guess I grew up in a poor family, who nevertheless found a way to vacation every year (driving), and never once went to the same place twice. I will never ever forget those trips as long as I live. So blessed to have parents that did this. This is the opposite of so many Tuggers who want the same place, same week, etc. Which is fine if that floats your boat, job schedule, school schedule. Those are well suited to weeks ownership of course. I believe this is true, I don't think I have met a non Tugger points owner at a resort that has ever been anything but happy about points. Which is opposite of what Tuggers seem to think.

So, perhaps we do agree even more than I previously thought as I did misread from what you have said here.

I think you're still reading it for situations I didn't specify and it might or might not apply. Again, the statement is specific to those newer to timesharing. I used this wording purposefully as there are a few people that might be buying in that aren't really new to timesharing. I've seen all of these over the years so they're not just figurative. They've been renting timeshares for years, they grew up in timeshare an are second generation or they've been around them for years and often even used them because of other friends/family. Now could one spend enough time and get educated enough to move out of the "new to timesharing" group and I'd say so but it'd take a lot more time and effort and likely several rentals as well than would be reasonable for most others buying in. And it does vary a little with the timeshare or more specifically, DVC is more forgiving in this area than most because one can get out for a controlled amount fairly reliably, at least currently and it's been true over the past 25 years. IMO timesharing is like buying real estate in general, the "money" is made on the buy. I really can't conceive of an exception to my statement as made though if one feels they are sufficiently educated and are the exception, that would be up to them. Only they know their situation, wants, needs, etc though I'd say we often don't know what we don't know and that can really bite you with timeshares.

I could see using your approach once we're retired, at least for a portion of our travels, though likely not all. And I've purposefully and proactively set up my timeshare ownerships for when we do retire and can travel more than we do now. But in the end it's all an educated guess as none of us know what the future will hold for ourselves, our family or timeshares. Thus I'll go back to a previous reference, risk management is key.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I get it, but, points are intended and I think do a decent job of working better for that new user market. I see a lot of them, yes, retirees can be new users, quite a few of them. So, I guess I still disagree on the new user issue. But I know that's a minority opinion on Tug. I have dozens of reasons, but no matter, this should be about the OP and taken offline if need be.

 

[aland0524]

Beefcake –

We are Chairman’s Club with MVC and have been owners for over 15 years (we purchased Maui Ocean Club just as they were turning the hotel into timeshares and then purchased 2 weeks Ocean Front 2-bedrooms in Napili Tower). We also own at Waiohai. We go to Hawaii every year.

We’ve enjoyed our relationship with MVC but I don’t think I’d be purchasing any more timeshares except on resale and then, only if I were purchasing legacy weeks in a desirable location (Hawaii, Aruba, etc.), never points.

Buying timeshares has a relatively long breakeven, especially since the maintenance fees (and other dues) keep escalating – with very little control on your part. There are very limited exit strategies that are “profitable” and probably (depending on how much money you spend for your purchase upfront), has at least a 10 year if not more breakeven.

There are TUGgers that seem to be able to navigate the system very well and seem to get great deals in great properties at great times. And they seem to enjoy the “hunt” as they say and have the time and ability to hunt properly.

However, for me, I’m realizing that if I were just starting out - it might be easier to rent vs buy. It definitely gives one a lot more flexibility, avoids carrying a major fixed asset with significant operating expenses and you’re stuck with an asset that really doesn’t appreciate!

To get a better handle on the economics, and if you are interested in the Marriott Vacation club system, you may want to check out Redweek to see how much a 3 bedroom villa would cost. Rentals for Maui Ocean Club are about $6.3K - $8.5K for 3-bedroom ocean front Napili/Lahaina villas (for your 8-person posse) and for the same amount of money, you can rent two-2 bedroom oceanfront in the older Tower (no full kitchen, no inroom washer/dryer). The maintenance fee for my current 2 bedroom ocean front is about $2.9K per year each week. I’ve rented out my weeks for about $5.5k per week so I figured that my breakeven would be 10 years if I purchased these weeks at $26K. I wasn’t as smart as many of the Tuggers here and purchased higher than this price so my B/E was definitely longer. But we’ve been at this long enough that we’re happy with our decision and my asset has been “fully depreciated” on my books.

Net – the questions you should be asking yourself isn’t “weeks or points”, “resale vs developer”, etc. but “for where and what we want to be doing on our vacations, what are the best value options that are available to me – good short term and long-term economics, maximum flexibility, ease of entry and exit and minimum hassle.” Happy hunting!

 

[kds4]

so after backing out of a deal on a rental property in myrtle beach because it didn't appraise, were looking at other options for vacationing

we were in aruba this past week and saw the adv. for the MVC.

somewhat interested based on the ability to travel multiple places.

I spoke with them, and currently points are about $14 a piece, but they have a 20% discount and then like 125% bonus points or something.

looking online at some places, i saw "resell points" at 2-4 a piece. they mentioned to me that if your buying used, that they will tack on $3 a point or something like that plus some charges in fees.

they also said they have first right of refusal, so if i go to buy the used points, they will usually just buy them back themselves.

$5-7 a piece obviously seems like a much better deal than the 11.20 currently, where is the best place to buy though , and know your getting a legit deal? and once i go to buy, are they really going to buy them back?

they mentioned at 7000 that puts you at diamond status for marriott as well, do you have to buy direct for that? and then i see "presidential" status talked about a few times, what are the benefits there, and again, do you have to buy direct from them for that.

Welcome to TUG. Buying into 'timesharing' (to own points or deeded weeks) is very different than buying a rental property (although both will hopefully provide you with great vacations). I would strongly encourage significant research (beginning here on TUG) to help you decide if timesharing is consistent with your vacation goals and if so, what kind (points or weeks)?

1. Do you tend to travel for a full week at a time or are you more of a 'week-end getaway' type of traveler?
2. For vacations, are you a 'planner' (12 months or more ahead) or are you more of a last minute 'get up and go' type of traveler?
3. Can you travel any time of the year or only during certain time periods (like summer when kids are out of school)?
4. Do you like to go many places one time or the same/few places many times?
5. How much time a year do you plan to vacation (a couple of weeks or a couple of months)? This will likely change as life happens - family, career, retirement, health, etc. However, knowing where you are (and where you plan to be in the future) can help quantify if/where/how timeshare ownership could fit in.

This is just to get you thinking about things you may already have. There is a large amount of information about both points ownership as well as weeks ownership here on TUG. Dig in and enjoy.