New owner- need help with renting out points and understanding my contract

[tumy87]

I purchased a new timeshare package (124,000 pts) in July 2022 that gave a bonus of (176,000 pts), totalling up to 300,000 points and making us VIPs for 2 years. We were of course lied to and pushed into buying, then eventually ghosted by all of those we interacted with leaving our questions unanswered. I thought about getting rid of the timeshare, but kept it because I wanted to get this for my young kids' future vacationing pleasures. I was financially more stable at the time I was buying, but now I am unemployed and have a mound of medical bills to pay.

We recently went to a meeting on NYE at the Great Smokies Lodge where they told us that once my VIP status is up, I have to pay more on the mortgage and the maintenance fee. They then told me that I'm losing VIP benefits (which I've never had or been able to enjoy in the first place) and it would be harder for me to get rid of or sell my timeshare later as it doesn't have the VIP status. They presented me with a $980.81/month amount, which is tripled what I'm paying now and can barely afford. I declined due to my current financial and health condition, so they offered to freeze my VIP status until the end of 2024 to give us more time to catch up financially then decide. They also mentioned in passing about being able to sell or rent out my points to help with my monthly payments and eventually offset my payments, but did not give much detail.

Can someone please help and explain to me is this correct? Do I need to upgrade to a VIP status? I was not receiving any discounts or benefits as described by the VIP program.
How do I rent out points? They mentioned using Extra Holidays and I checked it out, but it's still unclear to me. Do I book through Wyndham or EH? Do I have to ensure that the property has availability on both the Wyndham and EH sites? I've checked multiple properties and none of them had the same availability on both sites. Also, will the buyer have to buy all of the dates I've purchased or can they buy just some of the dates? Do I still get paid for this? If you could walk me step by step on this, I'd really appreciate it.
If I have unused points, what's the best way to get money back on it to help with monthly payments?

Someone please help!! I apologize for the many questions but this is the only place I know to turn to for help.

 

[55plus]

They lie, they always lie. Renting out your availability is not an option anymore. I don't know how much you have invested, but walking away isn't a bad option. You'll probably need to cancel your credit card so they Wyndham can't access it for payment. Ask for a replacement card at the same time you cancel the one Wyndham has access to. Good luck!

 

[55plus]

Renting through Extra Holiday is a rip off. Wyndham won't allow you to rent yourself anymore.

 

[rickandcindy23]

So sorry you fell for their sales' spiel. It's all about them making money and nothing about helping you.

Walking away has its own problems. Penalties are a loss of money already paid and a ding to your credit that could be costly as well.

I have no advice to help, but you do have my sympathy. I gave away a lot of Wyndham contracts after Wyndham said we could no longer rent. It's all good because we did it for 16 years. Wyndham runs its program with an iron fist.

 

[tumy87]

Thank you for the replies and sympathy. I don't want to walk away and have it my affect my credit score because we want to buy a house in the near future. I just wanted to find ways to get some money back on the points to help with my payments.
It's so sad that they deceive so many people and yet nothing can be done.

 

[kaljor]

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking but the advice I have is just ignore everything they told you, don't buy anything more for any reason, and since your credit record is important, keep paying for the original 124k points and the fees. VIP isn't worth anything unless you buy enough points, I think the current minimum is 300k points. If you honor the original contract and let the extras expire, I don't see why your monthly fee should rise. Unless it's related to financing like if they gave you a lower interest rate for the first two years or something like that.

If you already bought something they were offering recently, rescind the purchase formally if you are within the allowed period of time. And do that quickly.

 

[tumy87]

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking but the advice I have is just ignore everything they told you, don't buy anything more for any reason, and since your credit record is important, keep paying for the original 124k points and the fees. VIP isn't worth anything unless you buy enough points, I think the current minimum is 300k points. If you honor the original contract and let the extras expire, I don't see why your monthly fee should rise. Unless it's related to financing like if they gave you a lower interest rate for the first two years or something like that.

If you already bought something they were offering recently, rescind the purchase formally if you are within the allowed period of time. And do that quickly.

Thank you so much for the advice! I did not purchase anything more from them. I was thinking the same thing, that my payments shouldn't change if I let the vip status fall off. They just kept telling me that my package is worthless without the upgrade to VIP. As far as I know, there was no special interest rate for 2 years or anything like that.
Do you have any tips or advice for using unused points on Extra Holidays rental program?

 

[cbyrne1174]

Thank you so much for the advice! I did not purchase anything more from them. I was thinking the same thing, that my payments shouldn't change if I let the vip status fall off. They just kept telling me that my package is worthless without the upgrade to VIP. As far as I know, there was no special interest rate for 2 years or anything like that.
Do you have any tips or advice for using unused points on Extra Holidays rental program?

Dont. You wont break even on your maintenance fees.

 

[Hox]

I rent out to my friends here at TUG and avoid EH at all costs. It is Wyndham run and I haven't found that I would break even doing that; they make even more money off the points you own. I have more than enough points and most of them are inherited. With the way things are heading with Wyndham, I see myself "giving back" in the future or allowing someone else to carry the burden. :|

 

[tumy87]

I rent out to my friends here at TUG and avoid EH at all costs. It is Wyndham run and I haven't found that I would break even doing that; they make even more money off the points you own. I have more than enough points and most of them are inherited. With the way things are heading with Wyndham, I see myself "giving back" in the future or allowing someone else to carry the burden. :|

That's such a shame. They made it sound like I would make so much through EH. How do you rent out to your friends? I thought that it wasn't allowed anymore.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

That's such a shame. They made it sound like I would make so much through EH. How do you rent out to your friends? I thought that it wasn't allowed anymore.

The first question everyone should ask themselves at a timeshare sales presentation, is if there’s so much money to be made from renting points, then why are developers selling the points in the first place instead of just renting them themselves?

 

[kanerf]

The only value in a Wyndham contract is using the points to stay somewhere. If you are not doing that, get rid of it or stop paying.

 

[Jan M.]

The first question everyone should ask themselves at a timeshare sales presentation, is if there’s so much money to be made from renting points, then why are developers selling the points in the first place instead of just renting them themselves?

For several years now @HitchHiker71 and I have been discussing what we think Wyndham's next product will be. We think a version of renting/leasing points is it.

Some owners have been told by salespeople that it's in development and being sold or soon to be sold. Techically true because Wyndham's already doing that with the Discovery program. I'm thinking the next product will be a twist on what the Discovery program offers, an expansion of it. It would actually be quite similar to Club Wyndham Access. The difference being people would be leasing/renting the points for a specified length of time, a RTU, right to use.

Many people, especially the younger generations, don't want, or sometimes don't have the means, to make the financial commitment to owning a timeshare. A one time purchase price for the use of x number of points to be used over say the next five years with no maintenance fees would be very appealing. If I were Wyndham I would offer some kind of price guarantee or lock on a future purchase. One option might be for the use of more points at the same price within the next 12-24 months. This would or could extend the length their term to use the points. Another option might be for more points with a new term at the end of the original term but with a cap on the price increase.

The benefit to Wyndham of such a product is that they retain ownership of the contracts/deeds for those points. This solidifies their control of the resorts. Management of the resorts is very lucrative.

Think of the volume of the free deeds/contracts Wyndham's been taking back and is continuing to take back through Certified Exit. Certainly more than enough to back a new product. Also think of all the comments here on TUG or in the Facebook groups from owners who are fed up and thinking of or planning to get out. There's been a few people here on TUG who've suggested that what we're seeing with all the different issues is more than the incompetence or mismanagement we chalk it up to. It's part of the plan.

 

[PhilD41]

Here is a few comments based on your original statements. I don't know that they will help, exactly. But they may provide you with a slightly better understanding.

I have to pay more on the mortgage and the maintenance fee once my VIP status is up.

This is false! Your VIP status has nothing to do with your loan. The terms of your loan, duration, interest, etc. will be clearly spelled out in your original paperwork.

It is harder to get rid of or sell a timeshare later without VIP status.

This is false! Wyndham does not allow the transfer of VIP status with the account through resale. The only way to "acquire" an account with VIP, other than buying it directly, is through inheritance. Your VIP status will have zero impact on your ability to sell it later or give it back through Certified Exit (Requires it to be paid off).

Rent out my points to help with maintenance fees - Extra Holidays

True, but VERY risky! As others have stated this is usually a loosing proposition. Extra Holidays rents single days and offers a cancellation period for renters better than ours as owners. Meaning we as owners carry all the risk of not renting the full reservation and the risk for a late cancellation. Assuming to do successfully rent through EH, you only receive 60% of the proceeds after Wyndham takes their cut. I have heard of individuals renting out 2-3 nights in areas where special events are taking place hoping to an elevated price and reduced risk of cancellation. For me, it looks like another way to profit off their owners. Details, including a reasonable FAQ can be found HERE.

The advice you have received above is probably the best there is. Pay what you have committed to and never listen to anything they tell you going forward.... I will add, look for ways to enjoy your ownership, if you can.

You asked about renting to friends and family. You are allowed to have a guest take a reservation. It requires a guest certificate which may cost $99. Even with that, if you have a friend or family member that would like to go to Bonnet Creek, for example, you could make that reservation and add them as a guest. They could then reimburse you for the cost of the maintenance fees for the points used. A word of caution here, Wyndham has not been clear on what they consider "commercial renting." I have notices that those that send guests (rent) for more that 50% of their points seem to get flagged more often than those that don't. To my knowledge, there are no hard guidelines here and there are exceptions on both sides.

The above options is actually a pretty good one. You could likely send and friend or a family member on a trip staying at a Wyndham resort for the same price or even cheaper than a good hotel at that location. For large families, having 2 bedrooms or a full kitchen makes trips so much more enjoyable and cost effective. It is usually a win-win for you and your guest.

I too am sorry your financial situation has changed and your time share is a burden. There are no good options for when this happens. Lord willing, you will find a way to cover part of your cost and your situation will reverse quickly. God Bless!

 

[tumy87]

Here is a few comments based on your original statements. I don't know that they will help, exactly. But they may provide you with a slightly better understanding.


This is false! Your VIP status has nothing to do with your loan. The terms of your loan, duration, interest, etc. will be clearly spelled out in your original paperwork.


This is false! Wyndham does not allow the transfer of VIP status with the account through resale. The only way to "acquire" an account with VIP, other than buying it directly, is through inheritance. Your VIP status will have zero impact on your ability to sell it later or give it back through Certified Exit (Requires it to be paid off).


True, but VERY risky! As others have stated this is usually a loosing proposition. Extra Holidays rents single days and offers a cancellation period for renters better than ours as owners. Meaning we as owners carry all the risk of not renting the full reservation and the risk for a late cancellation. Assuming to do successfully rent through EH, you only receive 60% of the proceeds after Wyndham takes their cut. I have heard of individuals renting out 2-3 nights in areas where special events are taking place hoping to an elevated price and reduced risk of cancellation. For me, it looks like another way to profit off their owners. Details, including a reasonable FAQ can be found HERE.

The advice you have received above is probably the best there is. Pay what you have committed to and never listen to anything they tell you going forward.... I will add, look for ways to enjoy your ownership, if you can.

You asked about renting to friends and family. You are allowed to have a guest take a reservation. It requires a guest certificate which may cost $99. Even with that, if you have a friend or family member that would like to go to Bonnet Creek, for example, you could make that reservation and add them as a guest. They could then reimburse you for the cost of the maintenance fees for the points used. A word of caution here, Wyndham has not been clear on what they consider "commercial renting." I have notices that those that send guests (rent) for more that 50% of their points seem to get flagged more often than those that don't. To my knowledge, there are no hard guidelines here and there are exceptions on both sides.

The above options is actually a pretty good one. You could likely send and friend or a family member on a trip staying at a Wyndham resort for the same price or even cheaper than a good hotel at that location. For large families, having 2 bedrooms or a full kitchen makes trips so much more enjoyable and cost effective. It is usually a win-win for you and your guest.

I too am sorry your financial situation has changed and your time share is a burden. There are no good options for when this happens. Lord willing, you will find a way to cover part of your cost and your situation will reverse quickly. God Bless!

Here is a few comments based on your original statements. I don't know that they will help, exactly. But they may provide you with a slightly better understanding.


This is false! Your VIP status has nothing to do with your loan. The terms of your loan, duration, interest, etc. will be clearly spelled out in your original paperwork.


This is false! Wyndham does not allow the transfer of VIP status with the account through resale. The only way to "acquire" an account with VIP, other than buying it directly, is through inheritance. Your VIP status will have zero impact on your ability to sell it later or give it back through Certified Exit (Requires it to be paid off).


True, but VERY risky! As others have stated this is usually a loosing proposition. Extra Holidays rents single days and offers a cancellation period for renters better than ours as owners. Meaning we as owners carry all the risk of not renting the full reservation and the risk for a late cancellation. Assuming to do successfully rent through EH, you only receive 60% of the proceeds after Wyndham takes their cut. I have heard of individuals renting out 2-3 nights in areas where special events are taking place hoping to an elevated price and reduced risk of cancellation. For me, it looks like another way to profit off their owners. Details, including a reasonable FAQ can be found HERE.

The advice you have received above is probably the best there is. Pay what you have committed to and never listen to anything they tell you going forward.... I will add, look for ways to enjoy your ownership, if you can.

You asked about renting to friends and family. You are allowed to have a guest take a reservation. It requires a guest certificate which may cost $99. Even with that, if you have a friend or family member that would like to go to Bonnet Creek, for example, you could make that reservation and add them as a guest. They could then reimburse you for the cost of the maintenance fees for the points used. A word of caution here, Wyndham has not been clear on what they consider "commercial renting." I have notices that those that send guests (rent) for more that 50% of their points seem to get flagged more often than those that don't. To my knowledge, there are no hard guidelines here and there are exceptions on both sides.

The above options is actually a pretty good one. You could likely send and friend or a family member on a trip staying at a Wyndham resort for the same price or even cheaper than a good hotel at that location. For large families, having 2 bedrooms or a full kitchen makes trips so much more enjoyable and cost effective. It is usually a win-win for you and your guest.

I too am sorry your financial situation has changed and your time share is a burden. There are no good options for when this happens. Lord willing, you will find a way to cover part of your cost and your situation will reverse quickly. God Bless!

Thank you so much for the clarification! That was very helpful!
Regarding the VIP status, the rep was referring to having at least 300,000 points to be a VIP. In my case, a VIP Bronze. I think it's one of the newer programs that they rolled out.
We only purchased 124,000 points, which is enough for us to enjoy right now. I purchased the timeshare with the intent of using it for our vacations, not to rent. However, the reps were the ones mentioning this to me and that was when I first learned of it. I have 52,000 points left for this use year that I will not be using, so that's when the rep recommended that I go through EH. However he said if I kept my VIP status, the reps would be the ones to resell those leftover points for me with my permission.
Again I appreciate you clarifying these concerning issues for me! I learn so much more on here than through Wyndham itself.

 

[Hox]

Here is a few comments based on your original statements. I don't know that they will help, exactly. But they may provide you with a slightly better understanding.


This is false! Your VIP status has nothing to do with your loan. The terms of your loan, duration, interest, etc. will be clearly spelled out in your original paperwork.


This is false! Wyndham does not allow the transfer of VIP status with the account through resale. The only way to "acquire" an account with VIP, other than buying it directly, is through inheritance. Your VIP status will have zero impact on your ability to sell it later or give it back through Certified Exit (Requires it to be paid off).


True, but VERY risky! As others have stated this is usually a loosing proposition. Extra Holidays rents single days and offers a cancellation period for renters better than ours as owners. Meaning we as owners carry all the risk of not renting the full reservation and the risk for a late cancellation. Assuming to do successfully rent through EH, you only receive 60% of the proceeds after Wyndham takes their cut. I have heard of individuals renting out 2-3 nights in areas where special events are taking place hoping to an elevated price and reduced risk of cancellation. For me, it looks like another way to profit off their owners. Details, including a reasonable FAQ can be found HERE.

The advice you have received above is probably the best there is. Pay what you have committed to and never listen to anything they tell you going forward.... I will add, look for ways to enjoy your ownership, if you can.

You asked about renting to friends and family. You are allowed to have a guest take a reservation. It requires a guest certificate which may cost $99. Even with that, if you have a friend or family member that would like to go to Bonnet Creek, for example, you could make that reservation and add them as a guest. They could then reimburse you for the cost of the maintenance fees for the points used. A word of caution here, Wyndham has not been clear on what they consider "commercial renting." I have notices that those that send guests (rent) for more that 50% of their points seem to get flagged more often than those that don't. To my knowledge, there are no hard guidelines here and there are exceptions on both sides.

The above options is actually a pretty good one. You could likely send and friend or a family member on a trip staying at a Wyndham resort for the same price or even cheaper than a good hotel at that location. For large families, having 2 bedrooms or a full kitchen makes trips so much more enjoyable and cost effective. It is usually a win-win for you and your guest.

I too am sorry your financial situation has changed and your time share is a burden. There are no good options for when this happens. Lord willing, you will find a way to cover part of your cost and your situation will reverse quickly. God Bless!

Very well explained here; my status was inherited and I do rent a fair amount of points to friends and family as well as use them myself. I have been reached out to by Wyndham once about commercial use, but the conversation was short. My main goal is to cover maintenance and guest certificate fees.

 

[Silverdollar]

Very well explained here; my status was inherited and I do rent a fair amount of points to friends and family as well as use them myself. I have been reached out to by Wyndham once about commercial use, but the conversation was short. My main goal is to cover maintenance and guest certificate fees.

Last year, I wrote Wyndham Corporate to ask for clarity on the issue of an owner renting their timeshare to help offset maintenance costs. I received the following answer in writing from an Owner Resolutions & Strategy Executive Case Specialist:

“The only rental option we permit owners to utilize when it comes to rental is the option provided through Extra Holidays directly. Within the terms and conditions associated with any Club Wyndham contract- it discloses that purchases are to be for personal use and not rental by owner for a profit. If an owner is caught renting outside of Extra Holidays, their account can be flagged for commercial use.”

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Last year, I wrote Wyndham Corporate to ask for clarity on the issue of an owner renting their timeshare to help offset maintenance costs. I received the following answer in writing from an Owner Resolutions & Strategy Executive Case Specialist:

“The only rental option we permit owners to utilize when it comes to rental is the option provided through Extra Holidays directly. Within the terms and conditions associated with any Club Wyndham contract- it discloses that purchases are to be for personal use and not rental by owner for a profit. If an owner is caught renting outside of Extra Holidays, their account can be flagged for commercial use.”

There is one particular user on this forum who will probably post otherwise and claim it is perfectly safe to rent on Airbnb, but I think following what Wyndham Corporate wrote you back here is the safest course of action for anyone considering renting.

 

[am1]

The first question everyone should ask themselves at a timeshare sales presentation, is if there’s so much money to be made from renting points, then why are developers selling the points in the first place instead of just renting them themselves?

Except there was so much money to be made once upon a time. But OP that means nothing now. Wyndham did their best to kill that off.

 

[Family_travel]

Thank you so much for the clarification! That was very helpful!
Regarding the VIP status, the rep was referring to having at least 300,000 points to be a VIP. In my case, a VIP Bronze. I think it's one of the newer programs that they rolled out.
We only purchased 124,000 points, which is enough for us to enjoy right now. I purchased the timeshare with the intent of using it for our vacations, not to rent. However, the reps were the ones mentioning this to me and that was when I first learned of it. I have 52,000 points left for this use year that I will not be using, so that's when the rep recommended that I go through EH. However he said if I kept my VIP status, the reps would be the ones to resell those leftover points for me with my permission.
Again I appreciate you clarifying these concerning issues for me! I learn so much more on here than through Wyndham itself.

I think @PhilD41 has provided you the best advice.
Renting for more than maintenance fees only works in Prime locations during Prime season. So if you do not have a reservation in one of these places already, I would not consider trying to rent (to friends/family) this year.
If you have medical bills, I know the last thing you want to do is spend more money. But if you have the time, I would look at trying to use the points. Are there locations your family can drive to? If so plan to eat-in and have some family time. On our last trip, we flew, but I packed spices and marinade packs. If you do go to a resort, do not go to an owners' update. If not, move your points to RCI to save for 2 years.
I hope you can get your finances in better shape this year. Hopefully you can make payment arrangements with your creditors.

 

[tumy87]

I think @PhilD41 has provided you the best advice.
Renting for more than maintenance fees only works in Prime locations during Prime season. So if you do not have a reservation in one of these places already, I would not consider trying to rent (to friends/family) this year.
If you have medical bills, I know the last thing you want to do is spend more money. But if you have the time, I would look at trying to use the points. Are there locations your family can drive to? If so plan to eat-in and have some family time. On our last trip, we flew, but I packed spices and marinade packs. If you do go to a resort, do not go to an owners' update. If not, move your points to RCI to save for 2 years.
I hope you can get your finances in better shape this year. Hopefully you can make payment arrangements with your creditors.

Thank you so much!!!

 

[Sworley]

So sorry you fell for their sales' spiel. It's all about them making money and nothing about helping you.

Walking away has its own problems. Penalties are a loss of money already paid and a ding to your credit that could be costly as well.

I have no advice to help, but you do have my sympathy. I gave away a lot of Wyndham contracts after Wyndham said we could no longer rent. It's all good because we did it for 16 years. Wyndham runs its program with an iron fist.

I don’t understand what you mean by can no longer rent.

 

[bnoble]

Wyndham (like most timeshare companies) has a clause in its governing documents that forbids "commercial use." For most developers, commercial use includes a pattern of behavior that indicates significant rental traffic. Wyndham had a period a year or two ago when they were quite aggressive at identifying owners with such patterns, and sent them cease & desist letters. For some owners, they went farther. Cindy is one of those.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Guilty as charged. We did rent, we did profit, we did get stopped from renting and have had some nasty behaviors by that big corporation toward us as owners since we received the letter 2.5 years ago.

Wyndham is in control, total control, don't even think you own anything that is rentable by you in Wyndham. They own it all, they just let you use it.

 

[Hawkeyes78]

It's always unfortunate when a few ruin it for many. Having the inability to share your points/weeks with others seriously devalues an ownership in any system.