New environmental impact taxes hit starting Jan. 1 -- cruise ships included

[ScoopKona]

I doubt $100 million will even slow things down. But it's something we can at least measure.

🛳️ Federal Court Clears Way for Hawaiʻi’s New $100M "Green Fee" 🌊

A federal judge just green-lit Hawaiʻi’s historic climate tax, meaning cruise passengers and hotel guests will face a 14% "Green Fee" starting January 1.

bigislandthieves.com

 

[mjm1]

“The tax is projected to generate approximately $100 million annually. These funds are earmarked for shoreline restoration, wildfire prevention—a priority following the 2023 Maui tragedy—and invasive species control.”

We will see if this is taken up by a higher court if they appeal the ruling. If it is allowed to move forward I hope they use the funds as intended, including restoring the shoreline in Kaanapali.

 

[ScoopKona]

$100 million wouldn't clean up the trash in my general area. And it's a drop in the bucket compared to what Maui needs.

At the rate the counties spend money, $100 million doesn't amount to 10 roundabouts. And it's less than 1% of the cost of a monorail.

 

[bizaro86]

That's really more of a Shelbyville idea anyway.

 

[zentraveler]

That's really more of a Shelbyville idea anyway.

Sorry- reference? Looked it up but nothing fit…..(town in Indiana?)

 

[bizaro86]

Sorry- reference? Looked it up but nothing fit…..(town in Indiana?)

It's a monorail joke - the Simpson's had probably their best episode of all time about building a monorail.

 

[ScoopKona]

It's a monorail joke - the Simpson's had probably their best episode of all time about building a monorail.

It's not only the best Simpsons episode, it is precisely what happened in Honolulu. The state is paying $73 in subsidies for each $3 fare sold. The monorail ran billions over budget and years late.

Meanwhile, we could have built houses for the massive housing squeeze and Hawaiian diaspora.

 

[bizaro86]

It's not only the best Simpsons episode, it is precisely what happened in Honolulu. The state is paying $73 in subsidies for each $3 fare sold. The monorail ran billions over budget and years late.

Meanwhile, we could have built houses for the massive housing squeeze and Hawaiian diaspora.

Oh yeah, the best Simpson's episodes are the ones based on the truth, or where they humorously predict the future and it ends up coming true. (The episode "Bart to the Future" predicting President Trump from the year 2000 is just one example).

 

[pedro47]

How much is this new green fee is going to cost each tourist that will visit Hawaii after January 1,2026?

 

[pedro47]

$100 million wouldn't clean up the trash in my general area. And it's a drop in the bucket compared to what Maui needs.

At the rate the counties spend money, $100 million doesn't amount to 10 roundabouts. And it's less than 1% of the cost of a monorail.

How much of the $100 millions will go to administrative costs and how much will go to the actual cleaning up of the Islands?

 

[ScoopKona]

How much of the $100 millions will go to administrative costs and how much will go to the actual cleaning up of the Islands?
How much is this new green fee is going to cost each tourist that will visit Hawaii after January 1,2026?

Frankly, it doesn't matter. This isn't why they're doing it.

The islands -- Maui in particular -- are going to keep throwing pizzas at the wall in the hopes that something sticks. Visitor numbers to Hawaii used to be self-limiting. A round trip coach ticket from the west coast on a DC-8 cost $4,000 (adjusted for inflation). That kept visitor numbers down. And that's what the people who keep putting these bills forth want -- fewer annual visitors. If they can specifically target the tourists who treat the islands like a theme park, even better.

Letting unrestricted tourism happen is why so many houses are now amateur hotels. And why more Hawaiians now live on the mainland.

EDIT -- If I'm reading the article right -- an additional 3.75% on room taxes and 14% on cruise ship fares.

 

[pedro47]

Are you implying that the Hawaiian government do not want middle class tourists to visit Hawaii? That is crazy. IMHO

Or are you implying that the Hawaiian government only rich tourists that spend big money to visit Hawaii?

 

[sponger76]

Are you implying that the Hawaiian government do not want middle class tourists to visit Hawaii? That is crazy. IMHO

Or are you implying that the Hawaiian government only rich tourists that spend big money to visit Hawaii?

They want fewer tourists overall, but the ones that do still come they want them to spend a lot more $ per person, per day than the current average visitor does. It's a nice thought, but extremely difficult to make a reality. It's very easy to just end up with fewer visitors overall with the remaining ones not making up for the lost revenue.

 

[ScoopKona]

Are you implying that the Hawaiian government do not want middle class tourists to visit Hawaii? That is crazy. IMHO

Or are you implying that the Hawaiian government only rich tourists that spend big money to visit Hawaii?

Let's compare Hawaii to a ski slope. The lift day pass is the vacation cost.

If they sell 50,000 $20 day passes, they make $1 million in revenue. But skiers are crashing into each other constantly. The place is utter chaos. The visitors ruin the slope -- the ski resort loses money. More people doesn't mean more profit.

If they sell 1 day pass for $1 million, they make the exact same revenue. And their slopes are PRISTINE the following day. There's less stress on the environment and no lines. And they could reduce staff and increase profits. But that isn't going to happen.

The best number of visitors is somewhere in the middle. And ski destinations play with the lift ticket prices ALL THE TIME to get just the right number of people skiing. And if that means middle-class skiers can't ski, that doesn't concern the ski resorts.

People always complain when Maui runs another visitor-restricting bill up the flagpole. "They don't want our money." It's not about the money. It's about finding the right balance. Many people think the scales have tipped way too far in the direction of mass tourism. Until locals actually see personal benefit to visitor numbers, they're going to want to restrict those numbers.

 

[Henry M.]

Overtourism is a problem all over the world at all attractive destinations. Travel costs have come down significantly as has lodging. Unfortunately, the only way to regulate excessive amounts of people is to price things in such a way that only a certain number of people can come. It is hard to complain about what Hawaii is trying to achieve. I kind of feel the same about overpopulation around where I live. I don't want the population to keep exploding like it has since COVID.

 

[pedro47]

Overtourism is a problem all over the world at all attractive destinations. Travel costs have come down significantly as has lodging. Unfortunately, the only way to regulate excessive amounts of people is to price things in such a way that only a certain number of people can come. It is hard to complain about what Hawaii is trying to achieve. I kind of feel the same about overpopulation around where I live. I don't want the population to keep exploding like it has since COVID.

Have anyone researched Disney theme parks prices increases. Their Admissions Prices, their sovinerers, their parking and their in park food concessions have all increased and there have been no decline in the their tourists admissions.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

It's a nice thought, but extremely difficult to make a reality.

Exactly, but how often do top-down government and reality intersect? It ignores the Paradise Paradox. When you're in paradise, how much money do you actually have to spend? Go to a dump like NYC. You'll spend $$$$. Nothing else to do. Go to an abomination like Orlando. Same thing.
Hawaii? Repeat visitors who have "been there, seen that" can chill and enjoy.
So, there better bet is to somehow subsidize 1st-time visitors and keep the people who've been there 6, 8, ... 20x away

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Are you implying that the Hawaiian government do not want

Implying? MUltiple governors and the Hawaii tourism authority come right out and say it with minimal "correctness". They won't come right out with words like "middle-class", but they don't beat around the bush either. Read some of their strategic plans here

Hawaiʻi Tourism Authority

www.hawaiitourismauthority.org

I think it is the HTA whose plans I have downloaded and read, unless there is some other agency I am drawing a blank on.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Have anyone researched Disney

DIS spends big bucks building new things to try to keep it "fresh" for visitors. Yet, as of 6 mos ago (last time I looked at it) its WDW admissions were growing <1% Y/Y.

Hawaii? They spend basically nothing to "enrich" the on-island experience. THey build raods, maintain roads, and other things that benefit locals as much as tourists. They don't have to spend to attract #s. In fact, they spend money restricting tourists from doing things that they used to be able to do.

Hawaii vs DIS? DIS HAS TO SPEND to get people to come. 100% artificial. 100% yaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

additional 3.75% on room taxes and 14% on cruise ship fares

so round #; if one's MFs = $200/day, it is $7.50/day more. They use MFs for TS right?
It is good to see they realize the cruise ships are like importing locusts. Is that the total cruise fare, incl food & bev & whatever ... ?

 

[ScoopKona]

so round #; if one's MFs = $200/day, it is $7.50/day more. They use MFs for TS right?
It is good to see they realize the cruise ships are like importing locusts. Is that the total cruise fare, incl food & bev & whatever ... ?

Apparently yes. Total fare. Fine with me. If Hawaii banned cruise ships entirely, I wouldn't complain. Dirty, dirty industry with no real benefits for the host.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Have anyone researched Disney

it stuck in my head so I looked at the 10K for FY ending September
for FYSep25, WDW attendance shrunk 1%. Per Capita Guest Spending rose 5%
for FYSep24, WDW attendance had grown 1%. Per Capita Guest Spending rose 3%

FY25 "increase in theme park admissions revenue was due to an increase of 4% from higher average per capita ticket revenue"
FY24 "increase in theme park admissions revenue was due to increases of 5% from higher average per capita ticket revenue and 2% from attendance growth". so for FY24, that 2% attendance doesn't exactly agree with the prev statement of +1%. rounding, or slightly different analyses, close enough, call it 1.5%.