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CiCi2016

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Hello everyone,

Yesterday, we purchased 150 points yesterday at Riviera at $188/point. We wanted to buy direct to get the "blue card" benefits. We are empty nesters who enjoy Disney even without going to the parks. While we are in within the "rescission" period, I'd like to get the group's opinion about difficulty of booking rooms, moonlight magic events, etc.

We also own HGVC and are used to booking at the 276-day mark to get the desired time/location and understand DCV works similar if we are not booking at our home resort.

Do I have this part right? Our points begin December 1...we have until July 31 to either use the points for reservations or bank them into the following year. If we decide AFTER July 31 to make a reservation between then and November 30, the sales agent told us we would have to "borrow" from the following year's allotment. If this is the case, how would I ever use the points I banked?

Lastly, any overall thoughts on DVC holding value and enjoyment from DVC...from what we have seen, they appear to do a bit better than other timeshares but would enjoy opinions from the experts here.

Thank you,
CiCi
 
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bizaro86

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I think it's unlikely that Riviera will hold its value as well as past DVC resorts have. Resale Riviera owners will only be able to book at Riviera, not any other resort. That lack of flexibility compared to other options seems like it will make Riviera less popular/valuable as a resale.
 

Pathways

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1) If you had to finance, then rescind. Even a DVC timeshare should never be financed. But I'm guessing from your post that it was a cash purchase with 'disposable' funds.

2) You will learn all the 'banking and borrowing' with DVC once you get the points and start booking. Easy to learn and to use.

3) More and more you need to 'own where you stay' at Disney. Reservations for the lower point rooms go fast and the home resort advantage is frequently required. Given that, is Riviera where you want to stay? For me, I love the new location as the Skyliner gets me to two parks with less walking the Beach Club or Boardwalk. Plus, the contract at Riviera doesn't expire until 2070, and the BC and BW expire in 2042

There's no pressure from DVC. If unsure, then rescind and wait. But for me, DVC is a great addition to HGVC
 

Dean

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Hello everyone,

Yesterday, we purchased 150 points yesterday at Riviera at $188/point. We wanted to buy direct to get the "blue card" benefits. We are empty nesters who enjoy Disney even without going to the parks. While we are in within the "rescission" period, I'd like to get the group's opinion about difficulty of booking rooms, moonlight magic events, etc.

We also own HGVC and are used to booking at the 276-day mark to get the desired time/location and understand DCV works similar if we are not booking at our home resort.

Do I have this part right? Our points begin December 1...we have until July 31 to either use the points for reservations or bank them into the following year. If we decide AFTER July 31 to make a reservation between then and November 30, the sales agent told us we would have to "borrow" from the following year's allotment. If this is the case, how would I ever use the points I banked?

Lastly, any overall thoughts on DVC holding value and enjoyment from DVC...from what we have seen, they appear to do a bit better than other timeshares but would enjoy opinions from the experts here.

Thank you,
CiCi
IMO one should have this information before they purchase to be well informed. For that reason alone it's likely best to cancel then step back and look at this more in detail. I'm not doomsday on Riviera as some are but realize the reason DVC holds it's value is because it's Disney, not because of anything inherent in the timeshare itself. If there's an economic downturn or Disney has a hiccup, all of that will change, if not, it likely will continue. Borrowed points cannot be banked and expire at the end of the UY you borrowed them to so I always try to be using current years points planned well ahead EARLY in the UY. Banked points cannot be borrowed back. IMO UY is a major factor and one should buy when their usual travel is early in the UY and where that's not possible (they travel throughout the year), they are simply taking more risk of losing points.

Personally I think it's difficult to make up the cost of buying retail for 2 people with pass discounts and there are no other perks that are worth paying money for. I'd only buy Riviera (or any other high end option retail) if I wanted to stay there most trips. You should compare to paying resale and paying for passes as well as other retail resort options. Don't get conned into the end of the RTU driving your decisions, esp not anything that's 2054 or beyond. And don't forget to look at the long term dues cost.

You can book 11 months out at your home resort for up to 7 days (and add on to that each day if needed) and do the same at 7 months for resorts you don't own at. You can only use the points from THAT resort so if you had 100 at resort A & 100 at resort B, you could only book using the 100 at 11 months out. There are strategies to deal with this situation if one understands the situation.

I'd cancel and spend a few MONTHS looking at this. Don't let the lure of a one trip savings cause you to make a less than best decision.
 

bnoble

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Most DVC owners seem quite happy with their ownership. The one place where I see the most unhappiness is this:
More and more you need to 'own where you stay' at Disney.
It can be difficult to stay in resorts other than the one at which you own for good chunks of the year if you are primarily staying in studios. In general, there is a 2x point difference between a studio and a 1BR, and so there is significantly more demand for the former than the latter. For some times of the year, nearly all resorts have studios booked before the 7 month window opens, and at some resorts studios are just plain hard to get at 7 months, almost no matter the season. This thread has a good snapshot of availability, though note that this reflects patterns before the 2021 point charts which attempt to address some of the seasonal under- and over-pointing issues.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-bd-charts-september-2019-2-bd-added.3689931/

The relative under-pointing of studios and over-pointing of 1BRs is, unfortunately, probably baked in to the system and may not be able to be easily changed. So, if you are (a) mostly thinking about staying in studios and (b) don't expect to stay at Riviera most trips OR can't plan well before 7 months prior to your trip, you may well find this disappointing. On the other hand, if you primarily want to stay in 1BRs, this relative imbalance might work to your advantage.

Personally, I did not get into timeshare to stay in dressed-up hotel rooms. I'm typing this sitting in a smaller 1BR at Bluegreen's MountainLoft, taking some time to do some hiking in the Tennessee mountains before starting the holidays with family and friends. Even traveling solo, I appreciate having a kitchen, a washer/dryer, and space to spread out. I will stay in a studio, but only in unusual circumstances---usually urban locations where larger units just aren't available.

Finally, you mentioned wanting the Blue Card benefits. IMO, most of those are FOMO (Fear of Missing Out), and I agree with Dean when he writes:
Personally I think it's difficult to make up the cost of buying retail for 2 people with pass discounts and there are no other perks that are worth paying money for.
 

presley

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I might give you a lot to think about. I will start off saying that I don't know all the inns and outs of Riveria, other than it has a lot more restrictions than the older properties. If you ever sold (and you will at some point) it sounds like the new buyer won't have the same benefits that you have and therefore it will likely be harder to sell than their other properties. If you absolutely always want to stay at Riveria and will book it 11 months out, I'd say it's a good purchase.

I'd reconsider the purchase if you want to vacation anywhere else. The cost of this timeshare is far greater than most other timeshares and any trading you do will be a trade down. Also, the cost of Disney vacations is very high. Even if you have already paid for lodging, you still have the other costs with Disney, which are always going up.

I used to own VGC and while I love that place and would love to own there again, I don't book my vacations 11 months out. I've also become an empty nester and now I want my daily housekeeping and all the other stuff that I get with a hotel stay that I don't get with a timeshare. I recently looked into buying VGC again, but I really thought the whole thing through, I realized I am better off just paying the unbelievably high $ to stay in the hotel because the booking/cancelling is so easy and it pencils out to be more less expensive for me in the long run, based on how I would use it.

Have you found Disboards yet? They have a DVC forum over there and there's a couple active threads about buying Riviera. If you are considering cancelling your purchase, it's usually the right thing to do. Timeshares aren't worth regretting later.
 

chalee94

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"Yesterday, we purchased 150 points yesterday at Riviera at $188/point. We wanted to buy direct to get the "blue card" benefits. We are empty nesters who enjoy Disney even without going to the parks. While we are in within the "rescission" period, I'd like to get the group's opinion about difficulty of booking rooms, moonlight magic events, etc."

The cheaper studio rooms will typically be more difficult to book. These days, if you want a studio, don't log on 5 months out and expect to find much besides SSR... Moonlight Magic and similar events are for the shiny posters to get you to purchase - I tried to book 1 and tried to book a Frozen 2 event recently and was shut out for both. If it works, I'm sure it's fun - but don't pay extra expecting that it will be a regular thing that works out.

I have a strong bias against Riviera due to the new rules. I think buying direct there is a bad idea but it's your money. Definitely take time to consider your personal situation and the new rules for Riviera while you still have the option to rescind.

"Do I have this part right? Our points begin December 1...we have until July 31 to either use the points for reservations or bank them into the following year. If we decide AFTER July 31 to make a reservation between then and November 30, the sales agent told us we would have to "borrow" from the following year's allotment. If this is the case, how would I ever use the points I banked?"

It's "use" year - it's not "booking" year. Your use year is December, so your 2020 pts are valid for stays from Dec 1, 2020 to Nov 30, 2021 - that's when you can use them. If you want to stay from Dec 6, 2020 for 5 nights, you can call or go online on Jan 6, 2020 to book a Riviera stay with current 2020 UY pts. (You could also use banked 2019 or borrowed 2021 UY pts if you have them and need them. Even if you are booking in January 2020.)

So step one is not to confuse booking rules with when the pts are valid for stays. You can book 11 months out for Riviera and 7 months out for other resorts. Doesn't matter what UY you are in when you call or go online to book - you just need valid points during the period of your stay.

December UYs are a little weird since you are almost always traveling in a different calendar year. If you book a stay for March 2021, that stay falls into your 2020 UY (maybe think of it like a fiscal year - but put away the calendar since "New Year's" for DVC will be on Dec 1.)

I strongly recommend bookmarking this thread for reference:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/understanding-use-year-updated-march-10-2019.1942668/
 

TheHolleys87

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As a longtime DVC owner who’s very happy with our ownership, I must agree with the posters above - you should probably rescind and study DVC more, then buy if you decide it’s right for you. Riviera will be in sales for a long time, with fluctuating incentives, but it might not be the right resort for you. I’ll admit I’d be tempted to buy there if we weren’t so old and already BWV owners, and I can hardly wait for our stay there in early February, but you need to understand the idiosyncrasies of DVC before you buy!

I’m also a fan of DIS boards as are the posters above me, and you might be able to take a crash course in DVC ownership before the deadline to rescind by studying the DVC boards there. In addition to the thread re UY which will help answer your questions above - the DVC “guide” didn’t do a very good job there), there’s an entire board devoted to issues involved in purchasing at https://www.disboards.com/forums/purchasing-dvc.28/, and lots of experienced DVC members happy to answer your questions so you can make the best decision for your family.
 

littlestar

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Step back and study before you buy. The restrictions on Riviera when you sell it and higher point charts and dues would make me choose another DVC to own. You can buy the others direct (sold out DVC resorts that don’t have the restrictions like Riviera does).
 

elaine

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Agree with others. Rescind and research. You can call your same guide back and buy a week, month, etc. later.
We booked akv moonlight madness with no issues but others on disboards got shut out. The dvc members cruise is very nice. You can search on disboards to get info/reviews.
Properties with lots of studios do not have issues with booking at 11 months out.
You can book after banking deadline such as July 31 for December UY thru nov 30. But if you Canx your trip you can’t bank those points and lose them. get UY that works best for you. Don’t just take the UY they offer. But dec will get you an extra years points. Sometimes they can load extra points as an incentive.
I love my dvc. But be an educated consumer. Look at all the dvcs. See which you like the best. It might not be the newest dvc. We actually love okw. Buy where you want to stay is a good motto to ensure you get your lodging for the dates you want at 11 months.
Riviera likely to hold decent value. But it is a more restricted dvc than prior dvcs.
 

capjak

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A couple thoughts. You can buy resale and save thousands. Once your resale purchase is recognized (could take about 90 days+) by Disney you will be able to call your guide and buy a smaller package direct (currently 75 point minimum to get member benefits) to get "member benefits" in regards to annual passes etc... . DIS is a good resource for prices that are passing ROFR.
 

elaine

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Here’s a rough comparison to resale:
Bay lake is about $150/point ending 2060. Not riviera, but a newer property with easy access to mk. So, it’s about $5700 more to buy riviera direct. Assuming bay lake or another comparable resale was a fine place for you, is it worth that to buy direct. Only you can decide. You might get lots of fun moonlight Magics. Or get some and be shut out of others. I’d put a bit of a premium on a dvc cruise, but not 5700. is dvc mainly a place for you to stay with a controlled price? Or also the intangible of being in the club and getting some extra perks? Both are ok answers.
 

CiCi2016

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Step back and study before you buy. The restrictions on Riviera when you sell it and higher point charts and dues would make me choose another DVC to own. You can buy the others direct (sold out DVC resorts that don’t have the restrictions like Riviera does).

We were told no other properties were available to purchase or we would have looked at those instead. Is this not correct??
 

CiCi2016

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This is such great information, thank you all so much. We had done research, talked to others that owned and knew about the resale changes (which ironically went into effect the day of our daughter's Disney wedding), but when we went to the presentation, other things came up that we had not thought about (like the "no other properties available for purchase"). We also did some research about comments the sales agent told us while she was out checking on things, found out they were incorrect and called them out on it....this makes me question what else is incorrect that we don't know about. Time to talk to the hubs about it.
 

Dean

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We were told no other properties were available to purchase or we would have looked at those instead. Is this not correct??
Theoretically everything is available to purchase resale but all may not be available immediately. Depending on volume I'd either look at resale or resale plus 100 points. Personally I'd only buy retail if I wanted THAT resort or I could make back the difference within 5 years on pass discounts. The only options that are NOT going to be available retail are Aulani and VB for subsidized contracts.
 

heathpack

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The reality with Moonlight Magic is that you may not be able to even make one of the events unless you are local. If they announce dates in November, and you need to make your DVC reservation by the 7 month mark, you might only be able to organize a reservation for MM from June on (unless you are lucky enough to already have a DVC reservation for a date that happens to coincide).

That effectively eliminates half the MM events from being a plannable thing for you.

Plus they could eliminate MM at any time.

I wouldn’t let MM affect my direct purchase decision too much. It’s a nice perk but may not be one you practically can yourself of more than a few times, if ever.
 

CiCi2016

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Everyone made great points about the perks and those WERE a factor in our decision. After further discussion with my spouse, we have decided to rescind our contract. We are going to conduct more research as well as look at resales, with maybe a small direct purchase later on....I truly appreciate your insights...as presley said, "If we are already considering cancelling our purchase, it's usually the right thing to do." As bummed as I am right now, I am confident we will be back. We love Disney and feel some sort of DVC is right for us: we just need to find out what that is....happy holidays everyone and thank you again!
 

AnnaS

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How many times have you been to Disney? Have your "kids" been to Disney? Do you enjoy it and see yourself and maybe your kids(and families) going every year or every other year for the next 10, 15 years and/or indefinitely? The resale restrictions won't matter until you are ready to sell.

Do you think one trip a year will be enough? Do you think you will want to take/treat your kids? 100-150 won't you get too far......so you might want to buy more in the future anyway Direct and resale would be a good way to go - but you won't know until you have experienced it yourself. Might take one or more trips.

Have you toured or stayed at any other resorts/DVC resorts? Can you book 11 months in advance?

Are you in a hurry for any reason?

The Riviera is a lovely resort. I really like it. I can't wait to stay here someday. If staying close to Epcot/DHS is important to you (you won't know the meaning until you have stayed here or at other resorts to see the difference and like the gondolas), I would buy 100-150 here direct for sure. You might want buy direct points anyway to get you the Blue Card. Yes, discounts and perks can go away anytime. It's hard to make those MM events. Many events are announced way after we have all booked our stays 11 month in advance.

During your first stay here, take the time to check out some of the other resorts. You might like to be closer to MK - you won't know. Have breakfast, lunch or dinner and look around to get a feel of the location and theme. Keep in mind resorts ending in 2042.
 

presley

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We were told no other properties were available to purchase or we would have looked at those instead. Is this not correct??
I do not know about that exactly, but I do know that you can get on the wait list for any of their resorts and they will contact you when they have points for sale. They buy back properties and sell them again at the current prices. You can choose a resort, a point range for what you are interested in and a good sales person will contact you when they get it in stock. Depending on the resort, you may be 10th on the wait list or you may be the 100th.
 

Princ3ssgldy

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Easy answer. RESCIND ASAP. Not because a direct purchase is not a good option for you--it very well might be-- but just because you are not 100% sure of that at this moment. Take your time, do the research, but most importantly, keep your options open. DVC will always be happy to take your money, but they will not always give it back.
 

TheHolleys87

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We were told no other properties were available to purchase or we would have looked at those instead. Is this not correct??

The chart below is copied from DVCNews.com at https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-p...up-but-overall-numbers-slump-in-november-2019. It shows the number of contracts and total number of points sold directly by Disney in November. As you can see, contracts for all of the onsite resorts as well as Hilton Head and Vero Beach were purchased directly. VGC in California is almost never sold direct - I don't think Disney gets many of those contracts back via ROFR or foreclosure. So what many people do who want a "sold-out" resort as their home is to buy the bulk of the desired points via the resale market and then add on 100 points direct for the "blue card" perks. Most find it easier to buy resale first because it's easier to match the UY when buying direct from Disney. Having the same UY means the points function as one membership and are much easier to manage.

b_600_450_16777215_10_images_stories_sales_Sales_November19.png
 

frank808

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The chart below is copied from DVCNews.com at https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-p...up-but-overall-numbers-slump-in-november-2019. It shows the number of contracts and total number of points sold directly by Disney in November. As you can see, contracts for all of the onsite resorts as well as Hilton Head and Vero Beach were purchased directly. VGC in California is almost never sold direct - I don't think Disney gets many of those contracts back via ROFR or foreclosure. So what many people do who want a "sold-out" resort as their home is to buy the bulk of the desired points via the resale market and then add on 100 points direct for the "blue card" perks. Most find it easier to buy resale first because it's easier to match the UY when buying direct from Disney. Having the same UY means the points function as one membership and are much easier to manage.

b_600_450_16777215_10_images_stories_sales_Sales_November19.png
VGC is sold direct for sure. The wait list is so long that it was closed for new additions for years. I dont know if they have opened it since. I was on the waitlist years ago and finally got the points I was waiting for. I bought direct twice after the resort was officially "sold out".

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

CiCi

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Easy answer. RESCIND ASAP. Not because a direct purchase is not a good option for you--it very well might be-- but just because you are not 100% sure of that at this moment. Take your time, do the research, but most importantly, keep your options open. DVC will always be happy to take your money, but they will not always give it back.

We faxed and emailed our rescission letter this morning. I immediately received an email acknowledging our letter and, around 10am, got a phone call from the quality department advising me that our refund would be processed within 7 to 10 days. I was pleasantly surprised by the efficiency and lack of pressure to reconsider.
 
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