New do-it-yourself deed transfer service for $25

[nazclk]

Lawyers doing deeds

I wonder what lawyers slept with what congressmen to get that law passed. :hysterical:
In California we use Title Companies and they work just fine.

 

[DVB42]

I recently used Alans services to transfer a ts deed. I am very happy with him and Lisa. It was done very fast and at an excellent price of $75. In the future I would go this route again in a heartbeat.

 

[weh8625]

Texas law

I am attorney in Texas, and saw that only attorneys or real estate brokers can prepare deeds:

Section 83.001(a) of the Texas Government Code prohibits a "person, other than a person described in Subsection (b), may not charge or receive, either directly or indirectly, any compensation for all or any part of the preparation of a legal instrument affecting title to real property, including a deed, deed of trust, mortgage, and transfer or release of lien. Subsection (b) exempts licensed attorneys, real estate brokers or salesmen...

As for legal zoom there is an exception for selling forms, but I don't think it would cover preparing a deed:

(c) In this chapter, the "practice of law" does not include the design, creation, publication, distribution, display, or sale, including publication, distribution, display, or sale by means of an Internet web site, of written materials, books, forms, computer software, or similar products if the products clearly and conspicuously state that the products are not a substitute for the advice of an attorney.

As discussed above, any person can represent themselves in court or in a transaction, but as one of my favorite legal quotes said, "only an idiot has himself for an attorney."

 

[e.bram]

I am in a service business where I get taken to small claims and special civil courts occasionally.
I have kicked many a legal ass in the process, and so not consider myself an idiot.
Now a days you don't get Clarence Darrow going to court for small financial matters.

 

[weh8625]

I am in a service business where I get taken to small claims and special civil courts occasionally.
I have kicked many a legal ass in the process, and so not consider myself an idiot.
Now a days you don't get Clarence Darrow going to court for small financial matters.

Congratulations on your litigation success.
As we all know it makes sense to do our own legal work for small transactions.
I like our system where I can do my own legal work, plumbing, car repairs, hair cuts, etc.
What I can't do is charge someone else for any professional services without the appropriate license.

 

[Pit]

(c) In this chapter, the "practice of law" does not include the design, creation, publication, distribution, display, or sale, including publication, distribution, display, or sale by means of an Internet web site, of written materials, books, forms, computer software, or similar products if the products clearly and conspicuously state that the products are not a substitute for the advice of an attorney.

It appears this would cover just about anything, so long as a disclaimer is attached. How is deed preparation excluded?

To paraphrase... the "practice of law" does not include the creation of written materials if the products clearly state that the products are not a substitute for the advice of an attorney.

 

[Carolinian]

If a non-lawyer prepares a deed for someone else (you are allowed to do your own legal work), in Iowa that could lead to an unauthorized practice of law action, etc.

Non-lawyers can prepare mortgages, declarations of value, groundwater hazard statements, releases, but NOT deeds.

Iowa can and has gone after such cases.

The North Carolina State Bar has issued letters of warning to several of the out of state timeshare closing companies which prepare deeds. Unauthorized practice of law is a criminal offense in North Carolina.

One of the best reasons that these laws need to be enforced is that so many of these out of state closing companies screw up deeds. I have seen more deeds from individuals they prepare for OBX closings that are completely void than I have ones that are valid to pass title. The invalid deeds get recorded, because the Register of Deeds does not check every aspect needed for deed validity, so I am sure there are more folks than some would imagine who think they own a timeshare who really do not if push comes to shove. The fact that these people are screwing up so many timeshare titles is one reason I agree that there needs to be a severe crackdown on them.

 

[sandiego]

Contacting Alan?

Hi Denise,

I have tried to read all the threads and went on to your web site. I can't seem to find a way to contact Alan.I have my buyer. I just need to do the paper work. Thanks

 

[DeniseM]

A link to his web address and TUG user name are in post #1.

 

[DaveNV]

Hi Denise,

I have tried to read all the threads and went on to your web site. I can't seem to find a way to contact Alan.I have my buyer. I just need to do the paper work. Thanks

Alan's website is http://www.timetraveltraders.com/. His username on TUG is "TTT." You can send him a PM, or contact through his website. He's always been quick to reply.

Dave

 

[Carolinian]

Per his Business Rating on TUG:



Very few counties require an attorney to do a deed transfer.

As someone who practiced law, both in private practice and in state government, prior to taking my current position, I can tell you that it is NOT the counties which make these rules. It is the states. Sometimes requirements may be in state statute and sometimes in rules of the Real Estate Commission or some other body. And there are quirks in the laws of some states where a deed that would be prefectly fine in one state would be totally void in another.

In North Carolina, Practicing Law Without a License is a criminal offense and deed preparation is specifically defined as practicing law. Now if a party to the deed (either buyer or seller as long as they are not a corporate entity) fully prepares it themselves, they are excepted from this provision and allowed to do so, but any third party who does this is committing a crime in North Carolina. Looking over a deed prepared by a party and offering advice on its validity would also tend to be problematical.

Because most of the out of state timeshare closing operations try to use a one size fits all deed for all states, which is often invalid in some, if one is going to copy a deed themselves, the odds are that it is much safer to copy the deed that conveyed the property to you rather than using a model from an out of state provider who is not an attorney in the state where the timeshare is located.

I have seen far too many void deeds from out of state timeshare closers that get recorded on the Outer Banks. Anyone using such a service really needs to do their due diligence on their qualifications.

 

[bankr63]

Not to take this in a different direction, but a question comes to mind as I read all the posts here. For those $1 eBay sales, are the mandatory closing fees of the sellers not actually driving down the prices of those TS? For the two units that I have bought on eBay, I always considered total costs when deciding how high I would bid, so I bid less for the unit based on total package price. Since I expect that both my units were harvested by PCC, the seller probably paid funds to be rid of them as well!

I would rather see most of that money I spent flow through to the seller and a bit to a deed preparer like Alan rather than most of the money to what is most probably another “illegal” closing service. If the closing service required by the seller is not licensed in the state of recording, are they are any better than Alan? Holding my $1 safely in escrow hardly seems worth the extra $300/$400 that I am paying for that service.

I am starting to think it is much better to buy a distressed unit directly from the seller here on TUG Bargains or elsewhere for about the same total cost, and then pay for a simple deed preparation. I’ll take the risk that the seller may take my pittance and run… At least s/he will get a pittance rather than PCC making money off both of us. I think I know what direction I am heading in for my next purchase!

M Ross

 

[Carolinian]

Not to take this in a different direction, but a question comes to mind as I read all the posts here. For those $1 eBay sales, are the mandatory closing fees of the sellers not actually driving down the prices of those TS? For the two units that I have bought on eBay, I always considered total costs when deciding how high I would bid, so I bid less for the unit based on total package price. Since I expect that both my units were harvested by PCC, the seller probably paid funds to be rid of them as well!

I would rather see most of that money I spent flow through to the seller and a bit to a deed preparer like Alan rather than most of the money to what is most probably another “illegal” closing service. If the closing service required by the seller is not licensed in the state of recording, are they are any better than Alan? Holding my $1 safely in escrow hardly seems worth the extra $300/$400 that I am paying for that service.

I am starting to think it is much better to buy a distressed unit directly from the seller here on TUG Bargains or elsewhere for about the same total cost, and then pay for a simple deed preparation. I’ll take the risk that the seller may take my pittance and run… At least s/he will get a pittance rather than PCC making money off both of us. I think I know what direction I am heading in for my next purchase!

M Ross

The one multi-state closing company that I am aware of which does use properly licensed people in the state where the timeshare is located to prepare deeds, PCS Title, I have never seen as the required closer in any eBay sale. Most of the required closers in eBay sales are partly or wholy owned by the eBay sellers or have some kick-back arrangement, and have the same problems with violating state law.

If I saw a week on eBay that I was interested in, I would directly challenge the seller on this issue. I would email him asking for the State Bar number of the deed preparer (or other professional license number where others such as Real Estate Brokers are allowed to prepare deeds in the state) where the timeshare is located. I would copy that email to eBay and to the State Bar, Real Estate Commission, and any other relevent state agencies. I suspect the eBay seller will start climbing down in a hurry, and if he doesn't I will continue to pursue the matter through the State Bar.

In some states, these eBay sellers have another vulnerability. The State Real Estate Commission requires them to have a real estate brokers license in the state where the timeshare is located to sell the timeshare. North Carolina is one state with such a requirement, and I know of one occaision where they went after a reseller in Nevada and made them stop reselling North Carolina timeshares.

I am sure that these eBay sellers probably do not want state officials to start turning over rocks.

One other quirk is that since I have seen a lot of deeds into the entities where the PCC's hold title that are not valid, I have been tempted a couple of times when nice summer weeks were involved to contact the victim of the PCC who had paid to get rid of the timeshare and offer them $100 to sign a quitclaim deed to me for the week. Since North Carolina is a ''pure race state'' where whoever records a valid deed first prevails, I would then have superior title over whoever bought from the PCC on eBay. Unfortunately, with where I am presently located, getting a letter from eastern Europe might strike them like an email from Nigeria.

 

[ThreePeaks]

Do I need more than a transfer?

I'm trying to sell my stepmother and father's timeshare and someone on here is interested in purchasing it. To estimate "closing costs" for the transaction, do I need to estimate the costs other than transfer? (It's located in South Carolina, is that one of the states where I have to have an attorney?) Chris

 

[DeniseM]

I'm trying to sell my stepmother and father's timeshare and someone on here is interested in purchasing it. To estimate "closing costs" for the transaction, do I need to estimate the costs other than transfer? (It's located in South Carolina, is that one of the states where I have to have an attorney?) Chris

Someone has to prepare the new deed and record it with the county and the timeshare. A full-service title transfer is usually around $350 - I don't know if it costs more if you use an attorney.

Have you asked the buyer what they want to do? Usually the buyer chooses the transfer company. Are you paying for the transfer or is the buyer?

 

[hajjah]

Denise: I just used Alan's company two weeks ago. Lisa was the best in updating the Deed and sending it out to be recorded. The entire process took less than two weeks all to the amount of $107.00. I have used Timetravel Traders many times. They are the best ever.

 

[Carolinian]

For DIY folks, a call to the county Register of Deeds can provide the address and fee amounts free. And it is also free to take your old deed and retype it, changing the names.

As for reviewing for format and correctness, there are quirks in the law of some states and a layman in one state is simply not going to be knowledgable in all 50, so I don't know how much that is worth if anything. And that is leaving aside the issue that in some states, rendering such advice for a fee is practicing law without a license, which in some states is a criminal offense.

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but why pay $25 for something you can do for free? In all states, a party themselves is legally allowed to prepare a deed if they are buyer or seller.

From my observations, the odds of coming out with a valid deed are far greater for one party to prepare a deed copying every detail of a previous deed that had been prepared by an attorney local to where the timeshare is located, than it would be to employ most of the out of state timeshare closing companies to prepare a deed. I have seen far too many of the latter which are void to convey title even though they are recorded. There is at least one of the out of state timeshare closing companies that is competent enough to use attorneys licensed in the states where they do business to prepare their deeds, and you know what, they don't charge extra for getting ii done right!

TS Transfers is now offering do-it-yourself transfers for $25.

For $25 he will advise sellers, who don't mind doing their own typing, what is required for each county, provide recording fees and address for County Recorders and review each deed prior to recording for format and correctness. This should be interesting to those who are giving away timeshares, or just want to save $50 - his regular fee is $75.

TS Transfers is owned by Tugger ttt (Alan) and I have transfered a deed with him, myself.

Before all the self-appointed Mod's ask: YES - I am absolutely in cahoots with Alan! - For every referral I get before midnight tonight, he is doubling what Brian pays me - please patronize his business!

 

[Carolinian]

I'm trying to sell my stepmother and father's timeshare and someone on here is interested in purchasing it. To estimate "closing costs" for the transaction, do I need to estimate the costs other than transfer? (It's located in South Carolina, is that one of the states where I have to have an attorney?) Chris

I don't know of my own knowledge about SC, but someone posted in a previous thread that use of an attorney is required there.

There was also a previous thread about attorneys in HHI who closed timeshare sales, and their fees were about the same as those of the out of state timeshare closing companies. If you search for that thread, you can probably find the names.

If you call the timeshare office, they may well be able to tell you what local attorneys will prepare deeds at a decent price. When I was in eastern NC, deed preparation by attorneys typically cost $100 to $200. One resort where I owned had an attorney who served on the HOA board who gave owners at that resort a $50 price on deed preparation. He had the form on his computer, and it probably took his secretary less than 5 minutes to go the form and insert the new names and the correct unit and week number and a handful of other technical changes. Most attorneys would have to insert a whole new property description, but doing the same resort repeatedly there is a whole lot less to change each time.

 

[DanM]

I sold a timeshare at one resort with the paperwork done by the resort secretary for free and bought another at another resort for a $50 fee to the resort office. Neither unit was, in fact, deeded. Both resorts operated more along the cooperative than the condo model. In a cooperative, the association owns everything and the units are controlled by proprietary lease. In one of the cases I was assigned actual shares in a corporation.

I also own a deeded unit and I know that is common too, but I really wonder why. It would seem that the cooperative or corporate model would make much more sense generally for ease of transfer and management and the IRS allows the property tax deduction on a co-op to pass through just like a condo.

 

[Carolinian]

I have owned on the same basis, a timeshare on the cooperative model in Europe, and those based on a corporate model (''share block'' corporations) in Australia and South Africa. It certainly does make the paperwork easier and cheaper. Easier for the HOA to foreclose, too, if someone doesn't pay.

I sold a timeshare at one resort with the paperwork done by the resort secretary for free and bought another at another resort for a $50 fee to the resort office. Neither unit was, in fact, deeded. Both resorts operated more along the cooperative than the condo model. In a cooperative, the association owns everything and the units are controlled by proprietary lease. In one of the cases I was assigned actual shares in a corporation.

I also own a deeded unit and I know that is common too, but I really wonder why. It would seem that the cooperative or corporate model would make much more sense generally for ease of transfer and management and the IRS allows the property tax deduction on a co-op to pass through just like a condo.

 

[MLR]

Shudda read this one first :0)

DENISE, CAN YOU SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE WITH MORE INFO? THANK YOU!

TS Transfers is now offering do-it-yourself transfers for $25.

For $25 he will advise sellers, who don't mind doing their own typing, what is required for each county, provide recording fees and address for County Recorders and review each deed prior to recording for format and correctness. This should be interesting to those who are giving away timeshares, or just want to save $50 - his regular fee is $75.

TS Transfers is owned by Tugger ttt (Alan) and I have transfered a deed with him, myself.

Before all the self-appointed Mod's ask: YES - I am absolutely in cahoots with Alan! - For every referral I get before midnight tonight, he is doubling what Brian pays me - please patronize his business!

 

[ronparise]

Thanks Denise for the information

 

[josh3955]

Process

So lets say I use timetraveltraders for $75 to assist with the paperwork and get it mailed everywhere it needs to go.

Is that it. The end. done? $75 and call it a day?

Specifically, my unit is a westgate villa's unit that was purchased in 2002. Does westgate lump a fee in there somewhere (come on those guys charge for everything don't they), or do I have to do something else other than verify verify verify?

 

[Talent312]

So lets say I use timetraveltraders for $75 to assist with the paperwork and get it mailed everywhere it needs to go. Is that it. The end. done? $75 and call it a day?

No. The $75 is for their doc-prep and mailing services.

The county's recording fees and taxes, and resort transfer fee are extra.
You should find your resort's fee in your literature or with a phone call.